I could have sworn this series took place in Canada. Loose lips may sink ships, but that is an American slogan. Canadians had their own motto: "I was the victim of careless talk."
See: http://www.warmuseum.ca/cwm/exhibitions/propaganda/poster13_e.shtml
They didn't do their research. That is like Canadians in War 101: you start with the propaganda posters...
Interestingly enough they did enough research to include this poster in the same scene where the "loose lips" phrase is used:
http://www.warmuseum.ca/cwm/exhibitions/propaganda/poster14_e.shtml
Of note is the fact that this poster was not published until 1943, by which time the US was fully involved in the war on both fronts. "Gladys Witham's" American fiance remarks at the beginning of the pilot that he fears his "countrymen will never join the war", which places the time frame of this series sometime before the Operation Torch landings in Africa in November 1942.
Also of note, is that "Victory Munitions" was based on the Dominion Industries Ltd. (DIL) munitions factory in Ajax, Ontario during the war according to a National Post article about the show:
http://arts.nationalpost.com/2011/12/29/the-ladies-of-bomb-girls-makin g-pies-to-making-bombs/
On the evidence of the pilot episode, the show’s creators have revelled in the opportunity to play with characters living high-stakes lives. Meg Tilly is Lorna, the mother hen of Victory Munitions — it was an actual factory in the eastern suburb of Ajax — who has two sons fighting in Europe and a husband left a pacifist by the First World War.
Admittedly, they did do a lot of research. My comment should be put into the context of the time stamp: I posted that message within the first few minutes of the show, not having seen a full episode.
Now I've seen the two episodes that have been on the air... and it still bugs me a little.
First, in a discussion with my work colleagues, we all thought it was a little sad that that line was probably more recognizable (we discussed this that morning, a week before I saw your reply) but couldn't help but wonder if part of it was a bit of pandering for export. These shows really make money if they can be sold to an American market. However, even without the Americans, Canadian media actually does very well in foreign markets, sometimes even better than in their native land.
Second, a pet peeve of mine is when so many on the crew (especially costumers and property masters) do their research to get the visual right but it seems like the writers did not live up to that level. I am not entirely sure this is the case, but it happens far too frequently and I was afraid this was going to happen through the series.
Third, the suspension of disbelief required to watch television is harder in comparison to movies - mostly because you are not immersed in it. It is distracting when you have that penetration that pulls you back to the real world. Suddenly, you are removed from the story. Now, it is not fair because there are some shows that are so far removed from reality that they are not held to that standard but to only the rules established within the show (e.g. the "science" in Defying Gravity was atrocious, having to treat it like merely an homage for any history in SG-1). However, it is harder to do so for shows in certain settings.
All this being said, I finished the first episode, returned for the second episode and plan to watch next week.
Another minor thing- our pilot friend asks if she knows where to write his "battalion". Battalions are usually army- RCAF pilots and ground crew are in Squadrons or Depots while waiting for embarkation.
shareI saw an example of even sloppier research in a different movie (whose title has mercifully slipped my mind) back in the '90s. It had contemporary scenes and flashbacks to the WWII years. In one of the WWII-era scenes, c.1943, a dance hall in England is decorated for a party, and we see the flags of Britain, the US and Canada. Except the Canadian flag we see is the red Maple Leaf flag, which of course did not exist until 1965. Oops.
I have seen enough to know I have seen too much. -- ALOTOshare
BIG OOPS there!
I love seeing the Canadian Red Ensign, in is various forms, in Canadian historical pieces. I even own a full-sized one.
Well then you should take your invariably superior American knowledge up here to Canada and show us how to do everything right.
shareInterestingly enough they did enough research to include this poster in the same scene where the "loose lips" phrase is used:
http://www.warmuseum.ca/cwm/exhibitions/propaganda/poster14_e.shtml
Of note is the fact that this poster was not published until 1943, by which time the US was fully involved in the war on both fronts. "Gladys Witham's" American fiance remarks at the beginning of the pilot that he fears his "countrymen will never join the war", which places the time frame of this series sometime before the Operation Torch landings in Africa in November 1942.
The US declared war on Japan on December 8, 1941, and then declared war on Germany and Italy on December 11, 1941, however, this was after Germany had declared war on the US that same day. US bombers had been involved in air raids over Europe since mid-1942 but the first major military action by the US on foreign soil (outside of the Pacific War) was the landing in North Africa during Operation Torch in November of 1942.
In episode 1, as I mentioned above, there is a scene in a canteen with a poster on the wall that wasn't published until 1943:
http://www.warmuseum.ca/cwm/exhibitions/propaganda/poster14_e.shtml
James' comments were specifically about the war in Europe since he was an American in Canada, discussing the winning of military contracts in Canada. At the time, Canadians were fighting with the British in Europe, so the chances of him discussing the Pacific war would be slim to none. That said, given the info below, it is still possible that this takes place before the Pearl Harbour attack.
In episode 3, Gladys reads from a newspaper that the "Germans slip a noose around Leningrad." The Siege of Leningrad started in early September, 1941, so it is reasonable to presume that the timing at that point is sometime around mid- to late September, 1941.
The article you post regarding the "Loose Lips" quote shows that the quote was mentioned in a May 1942 article, but that does not mean that this was the first time the quote was used. The article also states that the slogan was "in use by 1942". I have found references to the poster being published in New York by House of Seagram (Seagram Distillers) of as early as 1941, and being published in Canada in 1942 by House of Seagram Montreal.
So once again we see that there are many different time frames being mentioned, or rather, there isn't one specific time frame in use.
Cz
Evil PURE AND SIMPLE by way of the Eighth Dimension!
The shot of the license plate on the Department Of Defense vehicle in episode 3 showed it to have a date of 1940. As they replaced the license plates every year at that time, it would have to put the show in 1940 or part way into 1941. Would that be right?
Screecap: http://tinypic.com/view.php?pic=28m3889&s=5
Well, it would be right, but the newspaper article about the Siege of Leningrad hadn't gives us a time of late 1941.
Evil PURE AND SIMPLE by way of the Eighth Dimension!
Just for the record, Pearl Harbor happens in episode 6, which clearly sets the show in 1941.
---
Peter Outerbridge
Forum http://goo.gl/WoFvT
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Yep... but as I mentioned in my previous posts, there are other little anachronisms that crop up throughout the series.
Cz
Evil PURE AND SIMPLE by way of the Eighth Dimension!
[deleted]
Just for the record, the munitions plant was actually called Defence Industries Limited, not Dominion. I know this because I live in Ajax... in fact, I live in one of the war houses that was constructed specifically for the employees of DIL. This town is richly entrenched in WWII history, and I am happy to live in a part of it.
shareSometime before Torch? How about Dec 10th 1941?(The day before Hitler declares war on the US) Torch came 11 months later.
shareWas the "Loose Lips Sinks Ships" American? I thought it was a British slogan.
shareThe actual slogan is "Loose Lips Might Sink Ships" and was created by the War Advertising Council and the US Office of War Information.
See this link:
http://www.phrases.org.uk/meanings/237250.html
And this Wiki page:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loose_lips_sink_ships
Cz
Evil PURE AND SIMPLE by way of the Eighth Dimension!
It's a British slogan not American.
"Careless talk costs lives" Another British slogan
It's a British slogan not American.
Loose lips sink ships
Meaning
Unguarded talk may give useful information to the enemy.
Origin
This phrase was coined as a slogan during WWII as part of the US Office of War Information's attempt to limit the possibility of people inadvertently giving useful information to enemy spies. The slogan was actually 'Loose Lips Might Sink Ships. This was one of several similar slogans which all came under the campaigns basic message - 'Careless Talk Costs Lives'.
Loose lips sink ships is an American English idiom meaning "beware of unguarded talk".
The phrase originated on propaganda posters during World War II.[1] The phrase was created by the War Advertising Council[2] and used on posters by the United States Office of War Information.[1]
The posters were part of the general campaign of American propaganda during World War II and were part of a campaign to advise servicemen and other citizens to avoid careless talk concerning secure information that might be of use to the enemy.[3] The British equivalent used variations on the phrase "Keep mum".[4]
Never let a decent show get in the way of anal retention.
First off, I could debate both your characterisations of "good show" or "anal retention." I often debate not returning to this show, though I usually do. I know many who haven't. There are far more anachronisms to discuss than are brought up here, if someone was to go through with a fine-toothed comb. People just brought up a few.
Second, we explained how those inaccuracies can take you out of the show for a moment and it is difficult enough to have a suspension of disbelief in a show with television given that it is less encompassing than movies, shorter time to get involved and commercial breaks interrupting that process. When other things throw you out of it for a second repeatedly, there is less engagement and less enjoyment. So, the onus is on the show to consider the price versus the cost.
Third, did it ever occur to you that such analyses can actually help people become more interested in the history being presented? Have you never Googled or looked up something because you saw it in a show and wanted to know if it was true? What else did you learn in that process? History led to what we are now. There is only the past trends to predict the future. There is a lot to be explored and this thread is the tip of the iceberg. There probably has been people just looking at the boards who then look through the material and get intrigued. Why not? It's actually fascinating what occurred, what we tried to communicate as a people, etc.
So, really, you want to judge that? A smart producer or any staff member of the show should be flattered that their work is getting that much consideration and thought. It is a GOOD thing.