My first and last word to BR fans/trolls and other plagiarism fanatics. - The Hunger Games: Mockingjay - Part 1 (2014) Discussion

[–] Sir_Yesterday 10 years ago

Thank you for acknowledging this! I will never read Hunger Games because of its similarities to Battle Royale which is one of my favorites.

Battle Royale has been out since 1999 and is an international hit and is still considered controversial.

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[–] JdgMoonbox 10 years ago

What you are actually saying is that you're so loyal to BR, you won't judge for yourself whether The Hunger Games is any more a plagierism than BR is of any of the Seven Basic Stories. You feel a sense of loyalty to your fellow fans that you won't ask if they have a valid complaint or just an excuse to be *beep*

Battle Royal may have been big in several countries, but the US is not one of them.

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[–] CharlesTheBold 10 years ago

All this talk about ripoffs reminds me of a story about the German writer Goethe.

Someone told Goethe that Sir Walter Scott may have stolen one of Goethe's ideas ( the unwed mother threatened with hanging for infanticide) from Goethe's FAUST. Goethe said "Yes, and he made splendid use of it." End of discussion.

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[–] Eradan 9 years ago

Beautifully said. Bravo for you and Goethe.

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[–] ikissedaguru 9 years ago

I hope this sets a very important precedent for the US film industry. I find that in certain US films if entire Hollywood movies themselves are not copied, plot point elements or dialogue snippets are. I find it absolutely delightful that a Hollywood production is pursuing a multi-million dollar slap on the wrist. Patent attorneys should look retrospectively at other offenders and do the same. There is no excuse for such shoddy, soulless and ultimately immoral filmmaking. It's repulsive that so much money is made off such blatant theft.

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[–] pdlussier1 8 years ago

That kind of parochial fanaticism, now there's real devotion!

Betcha if we applied the same logic to all the films you've rated, then you probably shouldn't have watched at least 75% of them.

Ignorance is bliss... 'til it posts on the Internet, then, it's annoying.

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[–] summeriris 10 years ago

Plagiarism is the actual lifting of text from a book. Your ideas about a boy traveling from one place to another and having adventures on the way has already been done, try reading 'On The Road'. For a book with the same kind of elements using a girl in a fantasy setting, try 'Year of the Unicorn' by Andre Norton. These are ideas, not text from a book. In the JK Rowling case the problem was not that Steve Van Der Ark and RDR books wanted to write an encyclopedia based on her books (there are any number available) but that Van Der Ark actually lifted entire blocks of her writing and put them in the encyclopedia as his work. There is no copyright on an idea for a plot, there are only 7 plots available for any author to use. Your two plots fall under the wo/man versus environment one. Using that plot you could write any number of books. The book shelves are full of them.

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I am the Queen of Snark, TStopped said so.

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[–] 10 years ago

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[–] summeriris 10 years ago

Chinese????? Really Dippy if you are going to try and be sarcastic you could at least be accurate. And no she didn't commit plagiarism because as I demonstrated, she didn't use BR's plot. Anymore than BR committed plagiarism when it was inspired by the scene from Tolkien's 'The Return of the King's Tower of Cirith Ungol's massacre. The prop of the exploding necklaces I'm not sure on. It is exactly the same device that was used in 'Wedlock'.

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I am the Queen of Snark, TStopped said so.

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[–] summeriris 10 years ago

OK, I'm going to put this into words of one syllable where I can. The book 'Return of the King' was written by Prof JRR Tolkien and published in 1955. Sorry about the big words. This means that that book was around for about 40 years before Takami wrote his book. ROTK was the template all authors used to write fantasy books during that 40 years, so the chances that Takami knew about it are more than good. And you don't have to wait for Netflix to get 'Wedlock', here's the link for YouTube;

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bGCR7-GPbBc

and here's the link for IMDB page, you could watch the trailer;

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0103239/?ref_=nv_sr_2

That page has the release dates and in Japan it was shown at a Film Festival in Tokyo. You know just like BR was only shown at a film festival in the US.

As for whether or not Takami saw it, I don't know. But it's exactly the same device in BR as it is in that movie. The Tower of Cirith Ungol massacre scene is exactly the same as the massacre scene in the lighthouse (well it's young girls instead of Orcs), and a lighthouse is a tower. Makes you think, doesn't it.

You do think don't you?

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I am the Queen of Snark, TStopped said so.

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[–] summeriris 10 years ago

There were quite a lot of exploding collars in the prison, every prisoner had one on.

Well LOTR was still translated and sold in Japan, long before Takami wrote his book, and long before the movie was made. It was the definitive fantasy novel, even in Japan. Influences, influences.

Now I don't believe that Takami ripped off these two works of fiction, I leave that type of unfounded assertions to the BR trolls.

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I am the Queen of Snark, TStopped said so.

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[–] summeriris 10 years ago

Dippy if anything would have convinced my as to your inability to judge a film that description of 'LOTR' would have done it. And I do hate to tell you that the animated version is not the latest one. And the fact that you seem to be unaware of the novel and the adaptations is beyond comprehension. Get out of the Otaku shops and start looking at Western literature. Your ignorance is not impressive, it's disheartening. If you start watching and reading Western films/books you will start to meet people, something that's impossible in the shops you haunt.

And your lack of knowledge about the LOTR novel is lamentable to say the least. Do you actually think parading your ignorance is impressive? All you are doing is parading your ignorance.

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I am the Queen of Snark, TStopped said so.

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[–] CharlesTheBold 10 years ago

No movie has the same plot and characters as BR except BR2, which is why the latter flopped.

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[–] Block-Busted 10 years ago

Snow = The Prime Minister Yuki

You obviously pulled this out from your butt. The Prime Minister's name in 'Battle Royale 2: Requiem' is not even mentioned at all.

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[–] Block-Busted 10 years ago

So....not familiar with the manga, then?

If you're talking about 'Battle Royale 2: Blitz Royale', I'm sorry, but I don't see any characters who resemble the prime minister in 'Battle Royale 2: Requiem'.

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[–] CharlesTheBold 10 years ago

Oh, so Shuya became a national hero by volunteering to enter the fight to protect the life of her (pardon me, his) sister? (I thought the Battle Royale victims were kidnapped from a bus and had no idea what the battle was) If not, exactly what do you mean that Katniss is the "American version" of Shuya? Just pairing up characters' names proves nothing.

And Caesar's "counterpart" is a "sensei" (respected teacher)? Wierd.

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[–] Flickas_Corpse8 10 years ago

He probably meant "the Lord of the Flies", which Hunger Games fans bring up a lot when defending Suzanne Collin;s plagiarism. Why calling Battle Royale a ripoff makes Hunger Games less of ripoff I don't know. They don't really explain the logic behind that one.

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[–] pdlussier1 8 years ago

Couldn't be any simpler???

If you hate Z merely for ripping off Y, then
You should also hate Y merely for ripping off X.

And how do you know that Z ripped off Y and not X?

"Lord of the Flies" is a very well known and beloved classic. "Battle Royale" is fairly esoteric. What makes more sense? Probably that "Hunger Games" and "Battle Royale" were both inspired by "Lord of the Flies".

Ignorance is bliss... 'til it posts on the Internet, then, it's annoying.

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[–] Sueperchunga 10 years ago

Can you see?
You can search looking for plagiarism or inspiration, you'll never end.

--There's no party like my nana's tea parrty.--

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[–] summeriris 10 years ago

I will not watch BR2, I couldn't sit through a movie that got such terrible reviews and that showed such disrespect by a son for his father. I mean really, that is such an example of a rip off cash grab. BR 1 was a pretty bad movie that the population of the US can give thanks that it was never released and no one got to suffer through it. But that son's movie was so terrible even in Japan they are ashamed of it. And
having his 'heroes' end up going to Afghanistan, what was he thinking?

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I am the Queen of Snark, TStopped said so.

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[–] Flickas_Corpse8 10 years ago

I will not watch BR2, I couldn't sit through a movie that got such terrible reviews and that showed such disrespect by a son for his father.

Actually, it was an act of respect to honor his father after the elder *beep* died from a cancerous cyst, of a sudden.

I mean really, that is such an example of a rip off cash grab.

Actually, *beep* was known as an independent director of Art films, and his son even more so. The exact opposite of money grubbing corporations like the US based Lionsgate.

BR 1 was a pretty bad movie

Actually, BR 1 has achieved major cult classic status worldwide.

that the population of the US can give thanks that it was never released and no one got to suffer through it.

Actually, its been released multiple times and gets a new release every few years or so.

But that son's movie was so terrible even in Japan they are ashamed of it.

Actually, its a source of National pride in Japan, just as all nations are proud of their best cinematic accomplishments.

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having his 'heroes' end up going to Afghanistan, what was he thinking?

I guess he had the balls to do so, unlike the Hunger Games where 'Fantasy locations' are substitute for the real-life USA and Afghanistan, effective neutering Takami Koushun's vision for a audiance seemingly diagnosed with downs syndrome. Team-Peeta, anyone?

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[–] Briongloid 10 years ago

I giggled at that. Chinese, hahahhahaha.

I listened, as if in a dream, to the wild improvisations of his speaking guitar.

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[–] summeriris 10 years ago

the level of Dippy's ignorance never fails to amaze me. He and the other BR trolls Insist that Suzanne Collins must know about a film that was never released in any format till after her book had been adapted into a film and that film was released and he doesn't know what country BR was made in and he has never heard of LOTR. One wonders if he and the other BR trolls knows enough to come in out of the rain.

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I am the Queen of Snark, TStopped said so.

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[–] Flickas_Corpse8 10 years ago

How is first ripping off Battle Royale. which was based on the novel by Koushin Takami, considered to be plagiarism, while ripping off Battle Royale 2, which was not, is considered to be not plagiarism?

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[–] Block-Busted 10 years ago

Flickas_Corpse8's reading comprehension:

F-

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[–] EAPierce 10 years ago

Of course, the biggest giveaway that BR whiners don't have a leg to stand on is the bald fact that there's no lawsuit. There are any number of litigators out there who would salivate at the chance to get a $ettlement from THG franchise, and yet not a single complaint has been filed, or is even planning to be. There's simply not enough similarity for a plagiarism charge to stand up under scrutiny.

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[–] summeriris 10 years ago

Since when has common sense meant anything to a BR troll?

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I am the Queen of Snark, TStopped said so.

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[–] Block-Busted 10 years ago

But then again, 'Frozen' was sued by a South American woman, so...

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[–] EAPierce 10 years ago

No. First, the applicable laws would concern the books, not the films. Second, there have been international protections in place ever since the Berne convention, which is continuously updated. Japan and the US are both signatories and have accepted the terms it sets forth. Battle Royale was a surprise smash hit in Japan. Huge. And it gets the same copyright protections here in the US that works originating here have.

I'm not an attorney of any stripe, let alone one that specializes in international law on intellectual property, but the laws do exist. THG is a huge cash cow; if there was any real evidence of plagiarism going on, litigators would be lined up around the block to file complaints and get a chunk of change. It ain't happenin'. There just isn't enough similarity, and has been noted several times, "there are enough possible sources for the plot line that the two authors might well have hit on the same basic setup independently." (New York Times)

End of brouhaha, as far as I'm concerned.

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[–] paynespnz 10 years ago

This list makes you look officially retarded. Most of those movies have not one thing in common with either of them. Of course they don't qualify. As far as I can tell Reindeer Games and Patriot Games are just there because they share a word in the title. The OP was implying that every story is influenced heavily by previous works. They all use well established literary tropes that have existed for centuries. THG has as much in common with Gladiator as it does with BR. The point is that they both use themes and ideas that have been seen many times before. The only thing that makes these two stories appear so similar is the premise of kids killing kids because the government forces them to. If you ignore the fact that it is kids then Running Man, Gladiator, The Condemned and Death Race are all similar. Every theme or idea in either film has been explored repeatedly in literature.

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[–] tankor6450-325-372629 10 years ago

plus if its been researched where is the citation to the research

"Yep.Yep.Yep"

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[–] paynespnz 10 years ago

Did you even watch Gladiator? only one of the fights was one on one prior to fighting the emperor. The entire story arc of one person being put into the games and then becoming an icon for rebellion against an oppressive dictator is almost a direct parallel to THG.
You only prove that you base your entire argument for similarities on the fact that both stories pit kids against kids in a fight to the death. Beyond that they are very different and THG is closer to Gladiator. You are looking for a movie that fits just one specific criteria where these movies are similar. If you chose any other aspect of either story you can find numerous examples of other works that contain the same points.

Trapped on an island? Escape from New York, Lord Of The Flies, Castaway.

People being punished and controlled by their government? 1984, Logan's Run, and all of human history.

Children being sacrificed? Many ancient MesoAmerican cultures. Yes the story of Theseus and the Minotaur

I think you are confusing the terms "themes" and "ideas" with setting or premise. The ideas of kids against each other in a competition where only one comes out alive was the core of the Stephen King novel The Long Walk. Running Man deals with death as entertainment and being put into an arena where you have to fight for your survival. Death Race tells a similar story but with a brutal car race in place of an arena. BR doesn't base the story on the entertainment aspect nor does it use the "game" as a way to simultaneously satiate and control the population.
The themes of an oppressive government controlling the population through fear and violence are as old as the written word. They are important cultural commentaries on the history of civilization and it's possible future. Other themes like rebellion, love, individual reactions to a situation beyond your control and survival in general are nothing new.
Constantly attacking THG for being a carbon copy ripoff of BR is like saying that Poseidon and Titanic are the same movie because they are about sinking ships. It's like claiming that Apocalypse Now and Good Morning Vietnam are the same movie because they both take place in the Vietnam war. Or more like saying that either of them is the same movie as Jarhead or Flags of Our Fathers because they are simply about war. You could even make the argument that being set in completely different times, it would be like comparing Heartbreak Ridge with Starship Troopers. Just having a similar setup, setting or singular plot point does not make two movies the same.
The only thing these two have in common is also pretty much the only thing that makes them seem at all unique compared to everything that came before them. What you and every other BR fanboy fail to realize is that all works of fiction are an amalgamation of other previous works. The point that the original poster was trying to make is that there are only so many basic kinds of stories. Most creative writing majors can tell you that it is commonly accepted that there are 7. The details of the stories change but at their core they are all tackling the same things.

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[–] paynespnz 10 years ago

And you've completely missed the point I've very clearly been trying to make. I said that the "themes and ideas" have been seen before. Not the Synopsis. You ignore the fact that I've said aside from the kids battling kids part they are both similar to other films. I explained how THG is more like Gladiator than BR both in theme and story arc but you don't acknowledge how I addressed your comments about it. You ignored everything else I posted to only copy and paste a very weak synopsis as your entire argument. You clearly have nothing original to add to the discussion. So, while that is far from being "nuff said" it is obviously all your limited intelligence can come up with.
Get over it. SC said that she never heard of BR until after she had already written THG. Given the overall differences in tone, theme, characters and backgrounds of the stories, combined with the extreme obscurity of BR at the time she wrote it, there is no reason at all to not believe her. Her explanations of all of her influences that had a part in her story is also completely plausible.

P.S. All of you BR fanboys should be thanking THG for bringing attention to your beloved "masterpiece" Without all this "Ripoff" controversy this amateurish film is getting way more recognition than it would have ever gotten otherwise. The only other help it has had was Quentin Tarantino calling it his favorite film. Considering that he has a very well known, self-admitted predilection toward over the top violence and generally schlocky exploitation flicks, his seal of approval does little to validate BR as quality story telling.

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[–] paynespnz 10 years ago

I'm sorry but I just couldn't let this go. What does it say about your life and your priorities that you've been stressing about such a trivial conflict for THREE YEARS? You need a life.

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[–] theunopeneddoor-697-442391 10 years ago

if it was a rip off it still means nothing. Every single Shakespeare play other than Twelfth Night was a remake of another play. If Shakespeare were alive today he would have been sued for Plagiarism dozens of times.

I've seen Battle Royal. Honestly Hunger Games is better.

Joseph Chastainme
https://www.facebook.com/pages/Marks-the-series/806493646056177

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[–] ihatescumbagdas 9 years ago

Takami is a plagiarist. He stole the idea from the movie, "The Running Man", right down to the exploding neck collars that kept the combatants in the arena. He just made some additions to the plot, just as Collins made hers (like sponsors aiding the players, training for the battle, etc).

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[–] wardiego 10 years ago

All I can see here is a synopsis made to show the similarities between the two movies.

But you could make two other synopsis, one for each movie, to show how different they are.

When you look are your synopsis, it's very clear how trivial and fakely constructed it feels. You have included things such as the fact that out of two people, there is one male and one female (what are the odds of that ?! Oh wait, actually it's very probable), or the fact that people that would survive oppression will be the representation of revolution, which is just an obvious consequence.

Now I'm not saying that The Hunger Games and Battle Royale aren't two movies that have no similarities, on the contrary it's nice to compare them. But they've got far many more differences than tons (I insist, TONS) of movies of many genres that come out every year. This includes romance movies, crime movies, movies about a super hero saving the world from a super villain, movies about a giant monster terrorizing humans, movies about some ghost scaring a family, movies about a team of thieves stealing something, movies about an underdog overcoming his problems and proving everyone wrong, movies where there's a disaster and the heroes are surviving like they can, etc etc...

The only reason The Hunger Games is even debated about this is simply for how popular it is, and it's pretty much only debated by Battle Royal hardcore fans that can't see the big picture because of how much they love Battle Royale.

Really, there's no "rip-off", and there is no big deal.

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[–] ihatescumbagdas 9 years ago

The male and female are not spared by the government. They escape and become wanted fugitives, quite unlike The Hunger Games.

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[–] JdgMoonbox 10 years ago

There are a lot of aficionados of Japanese culture. Otakon is one of the biggest conventions in Baltimore, and a lot of people know anime and manga. That does not mean that love of all things Japanese has spread to the general public.

The kind of fact that would answer my point is a box office report or some other indication that Battle Royale has made a big splash compared to American movies made for American audiences. You don't have that.

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[–] Mahmood-Buttrumps 10 years ago

That does not mean that love of all things Japanese has spread to the general public.

In the case of Mockingjay ripping off Battle Royale 2, it does.

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[–] AckbartheHutt 10 years ago

Well, it's the "it can't happen to me" mentality. Listen, we all know there's a possibility our homes might get burglarized. We hear it all the time - but this Monday my apartment was burglarized and I was totally taken by surprised and kind of just stood there in the middle of an empty apartment slack jawed trying to process what happened since we never think of it happening to US. Same thing.

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[–] MealWorm897 10 years ago

whats the american movie called with the people dying of cancer (i think) and they end up trying to kill each other also has the last man alive theme BR has (has a crazy fat bitch and a shootout in a cinema)

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[–] qianzhengyi 10 years ago

I have no idea if anyone here is guilty of this, so please don't take my statment as any kind of insinuation.

But, the truth is, this movie, like so many remakes, was getting universally trashed online from the moment it was announced. What most critics of remakes don't seem to get is that they aren't directed at the original films fanbase so much as introducing the story to a new generation or a different culture that might not be as keen on reading a film or listening to an awkward, almost silly sounding dub, or as interested in a 30 year old film with actors they've never even heard in the case of remakes of films from the same culture, as, good or bad, who's in it is often as important as the movie itself to younger generations.

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[–] summerinertia 10 years ago

Just wanted to point out that the Battle Royale movies *have been* available in America in Region 1 format since the ti,e of their release. Not sure if it's dubbed or subbed (haven't watched it yet as I wanted to finish the manga first), but I know for a fact it is because it's available from Netflix, as well as Battle Royale 2, and I work at Netflix, and we occasionally get new copies to process through to replace those lost to loss or damage.

Edit: Of course, if you're talking about "available online" as meaning hitting "buccaneer harbor", then well, I wouldn't know about that.

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[–] theunopeneddoor-697-442391 10 years ago

The Most Dangerous Game.

Joseph Chastainme
https://www.facebook.com/pages/Marks-the-series/806493646056177

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