6.6?
This site doesn't have much taste sometimes.
shareRather people. I'm afraid most of them prefers silly movies, the other ones like Immigrant is too ambitious and too intelligent for them.
shareThis film was really done well and gave a lot of insight into Ellis Island and New York for an Immigrant in the 20s. I thought it was very good and agree peoples taste on this site is very strange to me at times but that's what happens with a site that is worldwide so it's all good. Should have a better rating but I don't let that diminish a films value.
shareit should've been 8,6 instead ;)
shareThis site is open to the entire world, so taste is bound to vary. As others on a different thread have said about this movie, viewer age is one factor. But what I have not read is chatter about distractions that a given viewer has at the time.
If someone is on a date, they may be more concerned about their next move or any thing else going on in their life. That can make a viewer miss nuances that are critical to a scene. There is no criteria for voting as far as I can find other than the spoilers policy.
I rented this movie without seeing any trailers or reading any reviews. It looked like a good story and I often look for non main stream or big block buster movies so I am not overwhelmed by the stars themselves. In this case Joaquin Phoenix and Jeremy Renner seemed to did just that, stand out as themselves instead of the characters. I am not saying they are bad actors and did not give proper dialog in some of the scenes. What I mean is that they didn't seem to be 1920s men, they seemed more modern and didn't pull it off like Guy Pearce did in Lawless or Ed Harris did in Places In The Heart.
I gave it a 7 because of the star vs character mentioned and not really having a happy ending based on all of the build up of suffering throughout. I did watch it a 2nd time with captions on and scrolled back on some scenes multiple times in order to give it a fair shake.
Just try to stay alive and see what the next minute brings.
What I mean is that they didn't seem to be 1920s men, they seemed more modern and didn't pull it off like Guy Pearce did in Lawless or Ed Harris did in Places In The Heart.
I gave it a 7 because of the star vs character mentioned and not really having a happy ending based on all of the build up of suffering throughout.
Elaboration for Felix: At this link you can see a photo of Guy Pearce as Charlie Rakes in Lawless. Guy changed his appearance to such an extent that you would see his character instead of himself the actor if you did not see his name in the credits. Both of my references came from depression era movies and are about a decade later. I do not have an Ed Harris in Places In Th Heart link.
http://www.imdb.com/media/rm3029775360/tt1212450?ref_=tt_pv_md_2
Remember that I did not say anything was wrong with their clothing or surroundings that made them seem modern. That is the only way I can explain my thinking. Other actors often do face and hair changes to take away from their normal recognizable look. Like Charlize Theron did in Mad Max Fury Road.
It is a moot point because the movie is not going to be remade with different actors regardless of my or a million other opinions.
As far as happy ending, you inferred that Ewa and Magda went to California and lived happily ever after. What the film showed was the sisters in a sail boat
being rowed away from Ellis Island by paid off guards into the fog. Bruno lay dying or headed to prison regardless of his last minutes of showing redeeming qualities. It never said if Magda got cured of TB of if they made it to CA. And since it was expensive to live in NY and be treated, would it not be in CA? They had train tickets Bruno gave them but we don't know if they got jacked before they got on the train or was taken to a different place to work as before. The guards were corrupt, remember? They made have had to work in the same trade in CA as well, they did not have any relatives their either.
That why I say the ending was not really happy.
Just try to stay alive and see what the next minute brings.
Elaboration for Felix: At this link you can see a photo of Guy Pearce as Charlie Rakes in Lawless. Guy changed his appearance to such an extent that you would see his character instead of himself the actor if you did not see his name in the credits. Both of my references came from depression era movies and are about a decade later. I do not have an Ed Harris in Places In Th Heart link.
Remember that I did not say anything was wrong with their clothing or surroundings that made them seem modern. That is the only way I can explain my thinking. Other actors often do face and hair changes to take away from their normal recognizable look. Like Charlize Theron did in Mad Max Fury Road.
far as happy ending, you inferred that Ewa and Magda went to California and lived happily ever after. What the film showed was the sisters in a sail boat
being rowed away from Ellis Island by paid off guards into the fog.
Bruno lay dying or headed to prison regardless of his last minutes of showing redeeming qualities.
It never said if Magda got cured of TB of if they made it to CA. And since it was expensive to live in NY and be treated, would it not be in CA?
They had train tickets Bruno gave them but we don't know if they got jacked before they got on the train or was taken to a different place to work as before. The guards were corrupt, remember? They made have had to work in the same trade in CA as well, they did not have any relatives their either.
Well we have different opinions. I was talking about Guy Pearce's face being changed, not his outfit. In my reply I said nothing was wrong with Joaquin and Jeremy's clothes. They looked too much like their actor selves as opposed to their characters. I could have cited others who do face changes for characters. Gary Oldman is another example.
As for the ending, I see your point that it was happy for Ewa because she was with her sister again. I don't need every film to end like a fairy tale, then it would be 1950s TV. My statement about maybe they got jacked before they got on the train by other corrupt officials or some general low life predators like who ever it was that raped them on the ship and caused the "person of low morals" to be added about them on the ships manifest record.
To me they were back at square one and the fog represented the gray area of the world. Here are two decent women with only each other headed out into a world of
hopefully more good people than bad. They could have had a one minute scene where they were on a train and it pulled into some CA station. Although that would not have exempt them from other advantage takers but would have shown something better toward her sister's TB situation.
As for the lay dying statement, Joaquin said he thought his jaw was broken from his beating by the cops. Yes, the opium made him woozy but a bone infection can lead to death. His corrupt Ellis Island guard told him they were going to have to be strangers due to the cops looking for him. So who is to say he would go to the cops to explain his side of the story and produce the lady who originally lied and said Ewa did the killing. Lawyers always point out people with motives that are questionable (or low morals like hookers and pimps) and someone who has already lied as a doubtful witness. Since we saw none of what happened to him, he may very well have faced a murder rap or died from infection.
My original reply was to the OP to help explain why different people rate movies differently from what they feel. Not trying to be superior or 100% right all the time, just conversation.
Just try to stay alive and see what the next minute brings.
Well we have different opinions. I was talking about Guy Pearce's face being changed, not his outfit. In my reply I said nothing was wrong with Joaquin and Jeremy's clothes. They looked too much like their actor selves as opposed to their characters. I could have cited others who do face changes for characters. Gary Oldman is another example.
My statement about maybe they got jacked before they got on the train by other corrupt officials or some general low life predators like who ever it was that raped them on the ship and caused the "person of low morals" to be added about them on the ships manifest record.
To me they were back at square one and the fog represented the gray area of the world. Here are two decent women with only each other headed out into a world of hopefully more good people than bad.
They could have had a one minute scene where they were on a train and it pulled into some CA station. Although that would not have exempt them from other advantage takers but would have shown something better toward her sister's TB situation.
As for the lay dying statement, Joaquin said he thought his jaw was broken from his beating by the cops. Yes, the opium made him woozy but a bone infection can lead to death.
It doesn't matter what the police departments thinks or wants. What matters is what the jury, judge, lawyers, and court of law takes into account during the actual trial he will likely face. The police can try their best to skew his story, but at the end of the day he has a lot more going for him than that. But that's my logical perspective of the whole situation. What would really cement his case to the jury would be a witness reinforcing a murder in self defense.
Lawyers always point out people with motives that are questionable (or low morals like hookers and pimps) and someone who has already lied as a doubtful witness. Since we saw none of what happened to him, he may very well have faced a murder rap or died from infection.
That's fine since you have good reasons, but 6.6 means some scored it lower than 6, which I find hard to believe.
shareYou shouldn't compare it to other films ratings, a lot of films are overrated on imdb in my opinion. There's not a film that I've seen I would give a ten or maybe even a nine. If I give a film a six It doesn't mean a think its poor. Most of my favourite films I give eights to e.g. Once upon a time in the west.
shareI think 6.6 is pretty fair. I watched this and thought I'd really like it, because the setting, subject matter and period were all a bit different and it's quite a beautiful film... but I felt in terms of character and plot it was a bit unfocused.
Ewa seems to grow tougher and harder in her knew life and becomes quite clever with how she deals with Bruno as most women who survived her situation did in real life - so why does this apparent toughness evaporate at the end of the film? At the end of the film she is mewling and bawling all over Bruno, when he's telling her what the audience should have worked out a long time ago.
That's something that could have been foreshadowed if we had more insight into Ewa's character and motivation, but we don't. Marion Cotillard gives a good performance but doesn't have a lot of material to work with, frankly. Most scenes give her little to communicate other than "I don't like what is happening to me" which really is a given. It probably would have been a good idea to have more scenes of her interacting with the other girls in the troupe. Or some letters to her sister? Maybe they didn't include these because they wanted to make her seem more alone but I feel that still could have been achieved.
Bruno is by some way the best drawn character, but even he is undermined by the film's biggest problem. Orlando. A cynical man might suggest that this awkward hypotenuse of an incredibly wobbly love triangle exists solely so that they could crowbar a name male actor into the film. His role in the plot is definitely.. nebulous. Look at the threads discussing the character and nobody seems sure what his motivation is and all the assessments of his character appear to be more based more on projection rather than anything actually depicted on screen.
Orlando and Bruno's relationship is clearly meant to raise questions (of the mysterious sort) in the audience, but for me it just raised questions of the 'wtf is the deal with these guys?' type as their mutual hostility was strangely malleable. In the end Orlando was written like a plot device, but with no clear impact on the plot until the end of the film - but there are a LOT of ways they could have set the cops after them.
Also, Weinstein was right. The ending was very, very weak. Ewa and her sister getting out of Ellis Island in good health, with money and free to go where they want is a massively credibility-stretching outcome, and the decision to underplay it so much wipes out any emotional value it could have so it's a pointless exercise. The ending probably knocked a whole point out of 10 off the score for me.
Yeah, some good scenes, some brilliant visuals, much less than the sum of its parts.
I suspect the problem is that you have too many paperclips up your nose
I thought it was sorta slow at times but the third act of the film made up for the pace as you got to see Bruno in a different sorta light. Film did a good job of making you feel more sympathetic towards him and making you understand him more so as a character at the end.
Marion was good, but I thought she kinda stayed in one emotion throughout the movie which took away from her performance due to the lack of range. Still thought it was a nice movie overall and sorta representative of a classic Hollywood film style that you don't really see that often these days.