Still no Bigfoot body?


I used to believe in Bigfoot, still believed as of about 5 years ago.

Back when the year 2000 rolled in, there were lots of lists going around, "What's going to happen in the next decade?" On some of these lists were folks saying that it was very likely that Bigfoot would finally be conclusively proven, meaning a part of a body found, even just a fragment, containing DNA evidence.

People were more likely to be carrying cameras, as digital cameras came to prevalence in the mid to late 90's. Trail cams, also called trap cams, were also becoming more common as cameras became cheaper. And of course since the iPhone launched in 2007, almost everyone now carries a camera.

When 2010 came and went, with no conclusive Bigfoot evidence, I began to grow more skeptical. Surely someone would have found something by now.. but no, nothing. Just stories, as usual.

Now it's 2016, and the absence of Bigfoot evidence becomes more glaring with each passing year. Yes, I understand that absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. Remember, I used to be a believer, so I am very familiar with that logic. I said the phrase many times.

But there's other logic too. Logic such as, if Bigfoot is a real creature, eventually real evidence will turn up. And the more sophisticated our DNA technology becomes, the more cameras people have, the more trail cams are out there, the more likely we are to get conclusive Bigfoot evidence. So every year that we don't find conclusive evidence, the notion of Bigfoot being a real creature becomes more suspect.

I wish Bigfoot was real, but this dog just isn't barking. Oxford University examined every submitted sample of supposed Bigfoot DNA, and in every instance, all submitted samples were found to be from already known animals. (http://time.com/2949457/bigfoot-dna-bear-animal/)

I used to be very convinced by the Patterson/Gimlin film. I didn't think it could possibly be a fake. Until I started researching Roger Patterson... it turns out, he was kind of a shyster. He was known for unscrupulous behavior, such as stiffing people and companies whom he owed money to. For instance, the camera he rented to film the famous Bigfoot film, he didn't pay the bill afterward. Here is a note on that, as well as evidence that Patteron plagiarized artwork for his Bigfoot book: http://orgoneresearch.com/2012/01/11/roger-patterson%E2%80%99s-plagiarism/

As many of you know, Roger Patterson was dying of cancer at the time this film was made. As far as I can tell, his wife is, and was, a homemaker. She did not have an income. Last I heard, Patricia was charging $10,000 to license use of the film. The film has been licensed and used numerous times, probably hundreds of times. It is very likely that Patterson's goal was to be able to secure a steady income for his wife before he died.

True, Bob Gimlin has always said that if it was a fake, he was not in on it. But would Patterson's friend Bob really want to yank that income out from underneath his dead friend's wife? Not to mention, Bob goes out on the Bigfoot circuit now and gets paid for these appearances, so he's making money off it too at this point.

Anyway, apparently I could go on forever about this. Basically, my point is, the longer we go without a body, or part of a body, or even just DNA, the more Bigfoot appears to be what we all feared.. a man in a suit, and a bunch of folks telling stories.

(Where my WhoToTrust at? Shout out to my bro!)

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I don't know if the argument of "everyone has a camera now" is really that solid. I go out looking for birds and I will see one land, and within a fraction of a second it's gone again. It takes me a bare minimum 5 seconds to take out my camera and get it turned on, plus more time to aim and focus. People who see sasquatches often report that it's just a fleeting glimpse, that it's gone in a moment behind a tree. Unless someone has their camera recording for the entire duration of their hike it's incredibly likely they will not have time to get it up and running before the animal, sasquatch or otherwise, leaves. There have been tons of birds I have been able to concretely identify but still took off fast enough that I wasn't able to get their picture.

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These "glimpses" are very good arguments for mis-identification. You have to get a good look at an animal to properly identify it.

Notice that none of these glimpses has resulted in any hair or fur samples, nor stool samples.

Let's be clear: Every single bit of evidence people collected from what they thought was a Bigfoot sighting, has turned out to be other animals upon DNA analysis.

The only thing we currently have solid evidence for is mis-identifications of what people thought was Bigfoot.

There is very good reason for skepticism here, at the very least.

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by AlarmedGibbon » Let's be clear: Every single bit of evidence people collected from what they thought was a Bigfoot sighting, has turned out to be other animals upon DNA analysis.

Really? Every...single...bit?

There is very good reason for skepticism here, at the very least.

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I am unaware of any physical evidence from a Bigfoot sighting that has turned out to be from a real Bigfoot upon analysis.

These samples are always found out to be from other animals, conclusively proving that when some people say they've seen Bigfoot, it was actually another animal that they saw.

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by AlarmedGibbon » I am unaware of any physical evidence from a Bigfoot sighting that has turned out to be from a real Bigfoot upon analysis.

Which as I'm sure you should be able to surmise for yourself, is not conclusive that such physical evidence hasn't been presented, been found to be authentic, and the public just hasn't been told about it.

But surely, being the objective researcher that you claim to be on the subject, you'd have already figured out for yourself that there are logical reasons why such information would only be made known to certain people.

by AlarmedGibbon » These samples are always found out to be from other animals, conclusively proving that when some people say they've seen Bigfoot, it was actually another animal that they saw.

"Some" being the key word there...which as I said, renders the specific samples you're APPARENTLY referring to inconclusive.

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I can't back this up because I don't remember where I saw it, but I could swear on one of these shows, FB or another, they tested samples and it came back as an unknown. They can only compare the DNA to known animals in a database, so if it doesn't match any that either means it was contaminated and the test failed or it's an undiscovered animal.

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by Crustacean_Predation » ...They can only compare the DNA to known animals in a database, so if it doesn't match any that either means it was contaminated and the test failed or it's an undiscovered animal.

"Known" or officially accepted?

I've mentioned this convenient Catch-22 setup in the way the current official standard for DNA determination is made on this site at various times in the past, but strangely, it basically always goes unaddressed by our resident "skeptics"...where they opt instead to try to rehash old arguments saying the same things and/or starting the same threads over and over and over again.

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I know what you're talking about, Crustacean. I heard the same claims on a few of these shows and it interested me a great deal.

Unfortunately, it looks to have been bad science on the part of the researcher.

The story you heard was likely referencing the work of Dr. Melba Ketchum, a veterinarian who has taken an interest in Bigfoot DNA research. She's gained access to some of these DNA sequencing machines in a lab, but she is not a geneticist, and her work on this subject was rejected by all the scientific journals that she submitted it to.

Here's an article on her DNA study from the Dallas Observer: http://www.dallasobserver.com/news/a-texas-geneticist-apparently-invented-a-science-journal-to-publish-her-dna-proof-of-bigfoot-7144359

It's not surprising that it was rejected. Veterinarians are not scientists, and so they are not used to writing scientific papers. You have to know what you're doing to write them up properly, they're very technical and require rigorous standards.

Notice that Melba, the non-geneticist, conducted this research herself, and did not submit this supposed-Bigfoot-DNA-sample to any other independent lab for analysis. Huge red flag here.

We're just supposed to "trust her". (Probably one of the reasons her article was rejected).

From the article:

Ketchum announced that she had finally found a publication with the courage to go against the ivory tower establishment and that her research was finally being published by the DeNovo Journal of Science.

But Ketchum's victory celebration might be a bit premature. The Huffington Post and others did a modicum of digging and found that, not only is DeNovo's website shoddy and amateurish, the domain was registered all of nine days before it published Ketchum's study, which, by the way, is its only article. To read it, you have to shell out $30.


So, Dr. Ketchum created a fake-science-journal, tried to make it sound "sciency", and is charging 30 smackeroos to anyone wants a look (at something that is completely unverifiable).

Sound sketchy to you?

It sure sounded sketchy to me, much to my disappointment :(

Yet, you'll never hear these Bigfoot programs pointing this out. Because they are for entertainment purposes, they're not interested in real science or real critical thinking about this issue.

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by AlarmedGibbon » I know what you're talking about, Crustacean. I heard the same claims on a few of these shows and it interested me a great deal.

Unfortunately, it looks to have been bad science on the part of the researcher.

The story you heard was likely referencing the work of Dr. Melba Ketchum, a veterinarian who has taken an interest in Bigfoot DNA research. She's gained access to some of these DNA sequencing machines in a lab, but she is not a geneticist, and her work on this subject was rejected by all the scientific journals that she submitted it to.

Here's an article on her DNA study from the Dallas Observer: http://www.dallasobserver.com/news/a-texas-geneticist-apparently-invented-a-science-journal-to-publish-her-dna-proof-of-bigfoot-7144359

It's not surprising that it was rejected. Veterinarians are not scientists, and so they are not used to writing scientific papers. You have to know what you're doing to write them up properly, they're very technical and require rigorous standards.

Notice that Melba, the non-geneticist, conducted this research herself, and did not submit this supposed-Bigfoot-DNA-sample to any other independent lab for analysis. Huge red flag here.

We're just supposed to "trust her". (Probably one of the reasons her article was rejected).

From the article:
Ketchum announced that she had finally found a publication with the courage to go against the ivory tower establishment and that her research was finally being published by the DeNovo Journal of Science.

But Ketchum's victory celebration might be a bit premature. The Huffington Post and others did a modicum of digging and found that, not only is DeNovo's website shoddy and amateurish, the domain was registered all of nine days before it published Ketchum's study, which, by the way, is its only article. To read it, you have to shell out $30.

So, Dr. Ketchum created a fake-science-journal, tried to make it sound "sciency", and is charging 30 smackeroos to anyone wants a look (at something that is completely unverifiable).

Sound sketchy to you?

It sure sounded sketchy to me, much to my disappointment :(

Yet, you'll never hear these Bigfoot programs pointing this out. Because they are for entertainment purposes, they're not interested in real science or real critical thinking about this issue.

Which basically amounts to the "officialdom" you've been reminded of many times before getting to decide what is considered legitimate or not, based on the same type of Catch-22 method where "supposed/alleged" DNA can never be authenticated because that officialdom has not recognized a sample of record to compare to even compare TO.

Yet you'll never hear these officials pointing this out because they're not interested in objective science or thinking about this "issue". (Strange that you would refer to it as an "issue"...as in something that has to be dealt with...and not simply a subject that's being discussed). 

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It's worth pointing out, Dr. Melba Ketchum's "trust me, it's Bigfoot DNA!" paper is the opposite of the way science works.

In science, results are independently verifiable. One study is never good enough, you need multiple people to confirm your analysis. Otherwise, how do you know if you've made a mistake?

But notice that Dr. Ketchum is refusing to let anyone else study her sample. What is she hiding?? (Behind a $30 paywall)

Unfortunately, I know I'm not going to get anywhere with you about this, because you believe Bigfoot was an ancient alien who helped build the pyramids ;)

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by AlarmedGibbon » It's worth pointing out, Dr. Melba Ketchum's "trust me, it's Bigfoot DNA!" paper is the opposite of the way science works.

In science, results are independently verifiable. One study is never good enough, you need multiple people to confirm your analysis. Otherwise, how do you know if you've made a mistake?

But notice that Dr. Ketchum is refusing to let anyone else study her sample. What is she hiding?? (Behind a $30 paywall)

Annnd you've STILL not addressed the convenient Catch-22 setup I've pointed out.

by AlarmedGibbon - Unfortunately, I know I'm not going to get anywhere with you about this, because you believe Bigfoot was an ancient alien who helped build the pyramids ;)

As I said, spewing the same old cliche, safety in numbers, status quo, low-hanging-fruit, intellectually lazy, mock/ridicule/discredit/dismiss...and last but not least, animosity filled, douchebag argument...as usual. 

But as you've proven time and time again, that's all you're capable of despite claims of seeking objective discussion, so no surprise it's what you'd try to resort to again.

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I don't know if the argument of "everyone has a camera now" is really that solid. I go out looking for birds and I will see one land, and within a fraction of a second it's gone again. It takes me a bare minimum 5 seconds to take out my camera and get it turned on, plus more time to aim and focus. People who see sasquatches often report that it's just a fleeting glimpse, that it's gone in a moment behind a tree. Unless someone has their camera recording for the entire duration of their hike it's incredibly likely they will not have time to get it up and running before the animal, sasquatch or otherwise, leaves. There have been tons of birds I have been able to concretely identify but still took off fast enough that I wasn't able to get their picture.


Human's haven't made a magic camera yet to capture a clear photo of the legendary beast.

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As long as there are sightings, there is going to be fuel. "everyone has a camera now" is really not that solid.

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I've never seen bigfoot, but I've never seen a bear or a bobcat in the wild. Bear and bobcat bodes are found, either from being shot, trapped, car collisions, or whatever. Bigfoot must be very smart to avoid this. Human Beings are very smart too, but their bodies are also found from being shot, trapped, car collisions, or whatever.

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by runit73 » I've never seen bigfoot, but I've never seen a bear or a bobcat in the wild. Bear and bobcat bodes are found, either from being shot, trapped, car collisions, or whatever. Bigfoot must be very smart to avoid this. Human Beings are very smart too, but their bodies are also found from being shot, trapped, car collisions, or whatever.

Which remains as inconclusive as ever, seeing as how everyone with any serious interest in this subject has heard stories of eyewitnesses receiving unofficial visits from people claiming to be officials strongly suggesting they cease and desist speaking further of the matter, indicating that acknowledgment of said found bodies would not be forthcoming or discussed in the first place.

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The "officials" must be afraid of something if they are intimidating citizens like that. What are they protecting?

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by runit73 » The "officials" must be afraid of something if they are intimidating citizens like that. What are they protecting?

Their own interests in the matter obviously.

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the "everyone has a camera now" argument is the BEST ARGUMENT for me....

LITERALLY EVERYONE CARRIES ON THEM AT ALL TIMES A DEVICE FOR TAKING HIGH DEFINITION PICTURES AND RECORDING VIDEO FOOTAGE........

This has been the case for YEARS....

Yet NOT ONE decent picture or video of a bigfoot.

NOT ONE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Mr Annnderson.....!

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Out in the rural parts, to bring his/her phones/cameras. I have dropped three Iphones in the toilet . I tell myself to never bring it out while on the toilet now. Not having it out in the wilderness from fear of damage, costs, whatever is warrantable. Also, account the fear or shock , last to scramble for is a device!

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The "EVERYone has a camera now" dismissal nevertheless still holds no water when the first and only response from "skeptics" of photographic/video evidence put forward is usually to suggest "fake".

And that pretty much happens EVERY time.

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In this world, it's best to not even put out evidence in the first place in lieu of being called a fraud or conartist. I do not even believe thoise country bumpkins and rural mountain folks would try to go all out on an elaborate scam if it means such a wasted effort of resources and time which may have lost its novelty years ago.

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by UnionofSouls1188 » In this world, it's best to not even put out evidence in the first place in lieu of being called a fraud or conartist. I do not even believe thoise country bumpkins and rural mountain folks would try to go all out on an elaborate scam if it means such a wasted effort of resources and time which may have lost its novelty years ago.

Or, it may be that what would be on their minds when considering putting out evidence is all the REAL country-bumpkin, rural mountain, and governmental yahoos who would show up in their area and start causing issues...resulting in wasted effort of resources and time...which is never a novelty to begin with.

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...resulting in wasted effort of resources and time...


The show "Finding Bigfoot" would be definitely such except that it is entertaining. It hasn't been cancelled yet. People watch it, including me. I hope they do a show on witness intimidation and evidence suppression. There was already the X-Files, but a few episodes focused on bigfoot would work.

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What interest could "officials" have in an animal sighting or corpse to threaten people over? I think bigfoot is protected in Washington or Oregon states, but covering up a crime is a crime itself. The "officials" could be prosecuted.

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by runit73 » What interest could "officials" have in an animal sighting or corpse to threaten people over? I think bigfoot is protected in Washington or Oregon states, but covering up a crime is a crime itself. The "officials" could be prosecuted.

Why would you be asking me?

And to clarify, I didn't say anything about those officials covering up a crime, unless you're referring to them covering up the harassment by them during their visits.

I'm simply relaying stories of these "official" visits happening. And while I could make a few suggestions as to what the interests in the matter are that are instigating those visits based on other opinions I've heard, it's likely the same thing would happen in this thread that usually happens on this board, all the "skeptics" would begin coming out of the woodwork to second-guess those suggestions...so why bother again?

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