Did anyone else see Joe as a sexual equivalent of Nicole Kidman's "Grace

" character in another film by Lars von Trier - "Dogville" (2003), in the sense that both female characters are victims AND perpetrators simultaneously, with how Joe was also the victim of rape while being GUILTY of rape on at least ONE (a lot will say TWO given the controversial train sequence) sexual assault or rape against a male character (regardless of how LAW says it, MORALITY says so it was) - not to mention, her incredibly disturbing views on how "pedophiles who don't act on their desire "DESERVE A MEDAL" and how apparently, although this was cut from some versions of her film, her empathy for Adolf Hitler and possibly a defense of other sexual and non-sexual offenders.

And with Grace being both a victim and a perpetrator when at the end, she gives green light to ALL the town's members to be slaughtered by gangsters including women and children - the latter especially who haven't done her wrong, not to mention her being a daughter of a prominent GANGSTER and even the dialogue that suggested that at first, she had SOME sympathy for criminal offenders.

Without resorting to any issues of feminism and whatnot, especially double standards, what does this say about HUMANITY as well as the existence of good and evil - are they 100% absolute or could they be turned around?

Can we both sympathize with AND condemn the two women, who apparently have a lot in common, due to their experiences AND actions?

Also, with or without sex, do you personally believe that ALL human beings, however big and small, are BOTH victims and perpetrators somewhere and in some things, and that no human being is 100% good OR 100% evil? Using the aforementioned example, how do you see it, thanks!

P.S. I don't entirely disagree with what's being said there. But I must confess - the two threads over here dealing with Joe and the man on a train have EXHAUSTED me with how people there angrily express themselves, is it alright if I take a break from those two threads? Thanks!

The greatest trick the Devil has ever pulled was convincing the world he didn't exist!