MovieChat Forums > Pompeii (2014) Discussion > Pompeiians Were Romans

Pompeiians Were Romans

posted 11 years ago by essex9999
90 replies | jump to latest

What is this nonsense in the movie where the people of Pompeii resent the "Romans" as conquerors? What is this crap where Cassia describes herself as a "citizen of Pompeii"? She was a Roman. Pompeian citizens were Roman citizens.

I'm sure there was plenty of province-vs-capital tension and suspicion, but the idea that people in Pompeii thought of themselves as a separate nationality or group from Romans is ridiculous. It's not just a typical Hollywood, minor historical inaccuracy; it's a lie, 180% opposite of the truth.

Apparently, Anderson was so determined to make Romans bad guys that he couldn't bring himself to have the heroine and her family be Roman. In fact, the Romans were no morally worse than any other large nationality ("nationality" being an anachronistic word for the period, but I can't think of a better one ATM) at the time. They are also our direct cultural ancestors. The world was and is better off because of the Roman Empire, and, without it, modern Western civilization - and therefore us - would not exist.

I get that filmmakers love to identify with underdogs and prefer to make movies where history's winners are portrayed as evil and cruel (as indeed the Romans often were - just not any more evil and cruel than the people they defeated). I also get that, when making a movie about events that happened 2000 years ago, absolute accuracy is not expected. On the other hand, reversing major historical facts in order to make your Titanic-wannabe storyline work and to fit your "oppression"-obsessed worldview is cheating.

Besides, it's a crap film.

[–] Rey_Kahuka 11 years ago

They wanted to make the citizens of Pompeii more sympathetic in the coming disaster sequence, it's that simple. You spent more time on this post than the writers did on the script.

[–] stellarsiren 11 years ago

You spent more time on this post than the writers did on the script.

[–] devil_by_deed 11 years ago

You spent more time on this post than the writers did on the script.

Hahaha! I agree. That line is pretty wicked!

[–] 11 years ago

[deleted]

[–] eljuma_1 11 years ago

Agree

[–] celluloidroid 11 years ago

LOL!

[–] Forlorn_Rage 11 years ago

Lol, I'm not sure whether that's more of an insult to the OP or the writers.

[–] Tarquin_Q_Zanzibar 11 years ago

You spent more time on this post than the writers did on the script.

That of course, is the problem... (with the script, not the post!)

"We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars..." Oscar Wilde

[–] Royalcourtier 11 years ago

How can Romans pretending not to be Romans make them any more sympathetic characters?

[–] Calick 11 years ago

That's what I was wondering

[–] janny108 10 years ago

they might have been Romans but maybe they did not embrace all the political crap of Rome. Like they say, they came from Rome but not really part of it. Just my view

[–] Xcalat3 11 years ago

You spent more time on this post than the writers did on the script.

So *beep* true!

Liberate tu temet ex inferis.
pro ego sum diabolus, pro ego sum nex.

[–] zanity 11 years ago

Never a truer word said (about the writers and the script). This film had fine production values (save for a few excessive cheapo action sequences- like the chariot chase- that should have been cut). The cast was good enough. But the script- dear lord, the script :(

[–] eg4190 11 years ago

Well said. All native residents of the Italian peninsula had been Roman citizens for hundreds of years by 79 AD. This movie's portrayal would be analogous to filmmakers in the year 4014 making a movie about 9/11, and showing NYC residents virulently hating oppressors from Albany. Pompeii was a major city relatively close to Rome, and wouldn't have even been considered overly provincial -- it was a favorite holiday destination for wealthy Romans.

[–] cmstrauss 11 years ago

Actually, Pompeii was a separate Provence and one of the last on the peninsula to become part of the empire until they waged a war vs Rome to become citizens in I think it was 90 BC. Over 300,000 died and Rome relented and let Pompeii into the empire. However, the Romans forced 2000 Romans into Pompeii, giving them land and housing and began to run things their way. The Pompeiians resented their interference after having been independent for so long and there was lingering animosity. The movie actually got it just about right if not somewhat exaggerated. They wanted to be a part of the empire but,like most Roman conquered areas, still allowed some autonomy.

[–] Jerv23325-1 11 years ago

While the movie exaggerated it a little bit, Pompeii citizens DID resent Romans. It is often documented that there was tension between Pompeii and Rome, even up until the eruption.

[–] BureauCat 11 years ago

Yeah! What have the Romans ever done for us?

Pretend something clever is written here.

[–] Keester 11 years ago

Roads and baths....

[–] king_of_bob 11 years ago

Sanitation? You remember what the city used to be like...

Prof. Farnsworth: Oh. A lesson in not changing history from Mr. I'm-My-Own-Grandpa!

[–] movie_nazi 9 years ago

Yeah! What have the Romans ever done for us?

Pretend something clever is written here.

Monty Python joke! Nice! Just watched that one the other day in fact.

My Vote history: http://www.imdb.com/user/ur1914996/ratings

[–] MichaelScoffield 10 years ago

Sorry mate, but your history knowledge is *beep* LOL, Rome wasn't even an empire at the time. It was a republic.

[–] Taravilyaion 10 years ago

So is yours obviously.

The Roman Republic (Latin: Res publica Romana; Classical Latin: [ˈreːs ˈpuːb.lɪ.ka roːˈmaː.na]) was the period of ancient Roman civilization beginning with the overthrow of the Roman Kingdom, traditionally dated to 509 BC, and ending in 27 BC with the establishment of the Roman Empire.

Ref: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roman_Republic

The city of Pompeii was an ancient Roman town-city near modern Naples in the Italian region of Campania, in the territory of the comune of Pompei. Pompeii, along with Herculaneum and many villas in the surrounding area, was mostly destroyed and buried under 4 to 6 m (13 to 20 ft) of ash and pumice in the eruption of Mount Vesuvius in 79 AD

Ref: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pompeii

"Gar nicht so übel, du kleine Schlampe. Man sieht sich immer zweimal, Kleine."

[–] MichaelScoffield 10 years ago

You blithering moron. I was replying to the guy that said that Pompeii was "let into the empire" in 90 BC. Rome wasn't an empire in 90 BC. I wasn't talking about then the city was destroyed.

[–] movie_nazi 9 years ago

You blithering moron. I was replying to the guy that said that Pompeii was "let into the empire" in 90 BC. Rome wasn't an empire in 90 BC. I wasn't talking about then the city was destroyed.

Maybe you should put what you are replying to in quotes so people do not get confused.

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[–] fatality713 9 years ago

Seems like the Pompeiians were idiots if they waged war to become citizens then resented the repercussions of that fact. Like I go through the trouble of becoming an American and then resenting the government for having to pay taxes.

[–] shide_85 9 years ago

That would indeed be an alot stronger point if the population was homogenus, these days the plutocrats (just like in history) propagate what is actually bad for the population in a large extent - until the system topples.

[EDIT] Rule by plutocrats are usually done by divide and conquer if that was not clear.

Ignorance is only a bliss if you haven't reached awareness.
My imdb posts are getting altered.

[–] movie_nazi 9 years ago

Seems like the Pompeiians were idiots if they waged war to become citizens then resented the repercussions of that fact. Like I go through the trouble of becoming an American and then resenting the government for having to pay taxes.

I don't pretend to know the facts as to why they started bitching but I can see a deal being brokered with certain stipulations and they not being met. Sh!t happens all the time.

My Vote history: http://www.imdb.com/user/ur1914996/ratings

[–] kascha-klaussen 10 years ago

Sort of like how Taiwan loves mainland China you mean? Or how former Soviet territories love Mother Russia. You know cause look how reletivy closs they R?

Perhaps it's like how Hawaiians love Haoles? Since they live in a favorite vacation spot for wealthy Americans?

Wait-

[–] Taravilyaion 10 years ago

There won't be a year 4014, at least, not on this earth.
By the time it will be 4014 our current time will be either forgotten or been assumed as fiction.

"Gar nicht so übel, du kleine Schlampe. Man sieht sich immer zweimal, Kleine."

[–] choco_pudding_man 11 years ago

According to your logic, all Germans were Nazis. I suggest you brush up on your history.

[–] Bernnard_Black 11 years ago

Ummm, no. That's a poor comparison.

Nazis were a political party, not a geographical region like a city, state, or country.

Pompeii is a city in the Roman Republic/Roman Empire. "Rome" the Empire is synonymous with "Rome" the city. When people speak of the "People and Senate of Rome", they aren't just talking about the city, they're talking about all Roman territory.

So, yes...if you were a citizen of Pompeii, you were also a citizen of Rome.

Here's to the health of Cardinal Puff.

[–] Freethink7 11 years ago

Technically Pompeiians were citizens of Rome, but it wasn't under a democratic style of union, the Roman imposed themselves over thier Empire, so it makes some sense for Pompeiians to resent the capital and to yearn to be believed as citizens on their own, pretty much like the Soviet nations nowadays.

[–] fmbowey 11 years ago

No, the OP is correct. The people of Pompeii where loyal to Rome in the Second Punic War, and actually went to war with Rome in 88-90 BCE, because they wanted to become citizens and all the benefits that went along with it. They actually lost the war, but Julius Caesar eventually passed the law that give them citizenship.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_War_(91%e2%80%9388_BC)

See also Mary Beard's book 'Pompeii'

[–] theromanempire-1 11 years ago

The italian war was between 91-89 bc and they italians who wanted rome's citizenship acrually were on the verge to win the war while united until rome realized her difficult position and granted their request and only then she won the war. only when most of the italian allies axcepted citizenship and the few who continued the war cause they really saw their chance of real freedon lost because they were the minority who wanted a departure from rome.
Officially rome won the war but it was thru diplomacy only and only because the majority of the italians wanted to be ROMANS like most of rome's provinces became roman after 212 AD (caraccalla's edict).
On the fighting field rome was on the verge to lose the war.

[–] fugazzi49 11 years ago

I'm glad to see people here bringing up the Social War - now often known as the War of the Allies - though I doubt anyone should go to a movie like this for Roman History. But that was back in the Days of Sulla and Lucullus, 160 years before, so as you say, any hard feelings were long over by now. Pompeiian were heartland Romans by this date(79).

[–] theromanempire-1 11 years ago

Actually rome conquered the italian peninsula from 329 bc to 279 bc and the italians became romans after the conclution of the 2nd punic war in heart and mind but officially they were rome's allies until the social war.
Yeah....sulla (together with marius) were the first "emperors" of rome in practice if not in theory.

[–] aguzzi17 11 years ago

Maybe I just missed it, but I never got the idea that the citizens of Pompeii resented the people who came from Rome. It just seemed like the major characters of the story came to resent them mostly because the senator wanted to use them, humiliate them, show off his power, and marry an unwillingly Cassia. At first Cassia's father was excited for them to come. Was anything else that showed that the rest of the citizens of Pompeii disliked the Romans who were visiting?

[–] cmstrauss 11 years ago

Yes, the scene where the Romans were riding into town and the townspeople turned their backs on them.

[–] aguzzi17 11 years ago

Ah, yes, true. I forgot about that.

[–] king_of_bob 11 years ago

How could you possibly miss it? As soon as Kiefer enters the city people are turning their backs to him(a major sign of disrespect). There are even several lines of dialog that allude to the fact.

At first Cassia's father was excited for them to come.

Yes and no. He wanted money from Rome to improve his city. That doesn't imply that he loves Rome. Especially when he's shown in several scenes denouncing Rome.

Prof. Farnsworth: Oh. A lesson in not changing history from Mr. I'm-My-Own-Grandpa!

[–] dinerfood-901-211557 11 years ago

Whatever forwards the imagined plot, however extremely predictable. It's about as historically accurate as Star Wars. They sacrificed themselves to save the horse in the end, how peta of them. On the downside, while watching it I kept humming the Games of Thrones theme and imagined the white walkers coming down from the North. Nope, a volcano and a pretty decent rendition of a tidal wave.

[–] DeepBlueNinja 11 years ago

Kinda like Conan the Barbarian should've just been a Khal Drogo spin-off movie instead of a reboot so too this should've been a spin-off movie about Jon Snow.

[–] Tarquin_Q_Zanzibar 11 years ago

"It's about as historically accurate as Star Wars"

Surely no one is so naive as to expect Hollywood movies in an historical setting to be "historically accurate"? Personally I take it for granted that any Hollywood movie in an historical setting or claiming to be "based" on "actual events" will be pure fantasy. If one wants history, reading a history book, not watching a movie is the answer.

"We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars..." Oscar Wilde

[–] !!!deleted!!! (15363496) 11 years ago

They did not sacrifice themselves to save the horse. The guy was going to sacrificed himself to save her. He thought the horse would go faster with just her. She decided she would stay with him. They sent off the horse in hopes it would survive.

[–] drcoffyne 10 years ago

You got the first part right, he was going to sacrifice himself to save her. But, they didn't send the horse off to save it, she sent it off so that he couldn't force her to go.

"It was a dark and stormy night..." Snoopy
"Ack!" Bill the Cat

[–] amorphous-1 11 years ago

Archeological findings show that Pompeii was something like the Hollywood hills or French Riviera of Rome. i.e., the Pompeiians were not only Romans, they were rich Romans. By the abundance of villas and mansions found around the area of ancient Pompeii, historians have come to the conclusion that Pompeii was somewhat of a summer resort/high-class town, compared to the high density, hygiene-challenged metropolitan of Rome.

P.S., I agree with OP, this is a crap film.

[–] king_of_bob 11 years ago

No, they weren't. Keep in mind that there was no real industry at the time. So the divide between rich and poor was MASSIVE. Either you were wealthy and had a house full of slaves, or you were a slave.

Prof. Farnsworth: Oh. A lesson in not changing history from Mr. I'm-My-Own-Grandpa!

[–] volkstraum 11 years ago

Pompeiians ran the sex industry for the vacationing Roman elite. These two cities were joined at the hip, literally.

Watched this film and did not see a single mammary. I was disappoint.

"I can't help but notice that there are skulls all over everything. Are we the baddies?"