MovieChat Forums > Gravity Falls (2012) Discussion > "Pacifica's the worst" ????

"Pacifica's the worst" ????

posted 10 years ago by magolding
6 replies | jump to latest

How can Dipper say "Pacifica's the worst"?

Clearly she's not the best, but considering all the human and nonhuman people, some of them evil, that Dipper has met so far, how could he call her the worst?

And just an hour or two later, Dipper saw the lumberjack Ghost do things far worse than he ever saw Pacifica or her parents do, proving just how careless his opinions can be.

The lumberjack Ghost swung his axe at Pacifica's head, saying he would kill her for being a Northwest, but was stopped by Dipper.

If the Lumberjack died 150 years ago, in the early 1860s, he should have heard many contemporary stories of Indian warriors bashing in the heads of children with axes, and killing children in other ways, merely because those children were white or belonged to enemy tribes. He probably listened to stories of the Santee Sioux uprising in Minnesota in 1862 and was horrified by the cruelty of the Sioux.

So what was the Lumberjack Ghost doing, imitating the horrifying cruelty of Sioux and other Indian warriors, when Pacifica's ancestors had provoked him much less than adult white people had provoked the Santee Sioux? What kind of ethical sense does that make?

And later the Lumberjack Ghost killed all the guests at the party by turning them into wood and then said he would burn down the mansion, which would make them even deader, if possible. Those guests included Mabel's two friends and Mabel herself. Then he killed Dipper by turning him into wood, too.

I have always thought that Odysseus committed a terrible crime killing all the suitors when he returned home to Ithica. I always thought that the Greek epic cycle should have included an epic about an "Ithican War" with all the other kings in Greece invading Ithica to kill Odysseus in revenge for murdering so many Greek princes.

But at least Odysseus didn't kill any suitors who were as young and innocent of harming him as Mabel and her friends or Marius. It is possible that the Lumberjack Ghost also killed a bunch of other child and teenage guests since Mabel and her friends believed there would be a lot of other cute boys beside Marius at the party.

And why did Dipper accept the Lumberjack Ghost's story about why he was angry at the Northwests? Couldn't Dipper be cynical enough to expect that the ghost might be lying or exaggerating to get Dipper's sympathy? Later it became clear that the ghost actually did believe at least part of his story and really was angry at the Northwests for not admitting the townsfolk to their annual parties, when Pacifica opened the gates and let the townspeople in and the ghost restored everyone to life.

But when the ghost told his sob story to Dipper there was no collaborating evidence to show that any of it was true. Dipper swallowed it hook, line, and sinker and stormed off to accuse the Northwests of lying, being snobbish, and doing things the hard way. But Dipper was furious at the Northwests without even saying, and thus probably without even realizing, the most evil part of their actions, that they put two children in danger instead of resolving the situation peacefully.

Note that Dipper thinks that the Northwests are bad because they are liars and breakers of promises. But Dipper sometimes lies to get what he wants, and after defeating the zombies Gruncle Stan and Dipper both made promises to each other and both had their fingers crossed behind their backs. If Dipper can find excuses for not keeping his promises the Northwests can find excuses for not keeping theirs, with just as much or little justification.

The episode indicates that Pacifica may be an exceptionally competent child. The Northwests probably know some competent children, such as Pacifica and/or Gideon, if they think that a child like Dipper can be a competent ghostbuster. And they send Pacifica to handle relations with the ghostbuster as if they have given her responsible errands before.

In this episode Pacifica saved at least a dozen, and possibly hundreds of guests from the Lumberjack Ghost. She may have saved the lives of her parents and the butler, too. I don't know if the panic room could have protected them from a raging inferno above.

So how was Pacifica later rewarded by her parents? I don't know but I fear that, if they all survive the coming Armageddon, the next time Mabel and Dipper meet Pacifica they may be shocked by how much she has changed after being punished for disobeying her father. I fear that Pacifica may behave so subdued and robotic after being punished that the twins may wish that the old nasty, insulting, stuck up Pacifica was back.

[–] Deadpool_vs_theLeprecorn 10 years ago

Your thoughts are all over the place.

Clearly she's not the best, but considering all the human and nonhuman people, some of them evil, that Dipper has met so far, how could he call her the worst?

He is simply exaggerating.

So what was the Lumberjack Ghost doing, imitating the horrifying cruelty of Sioux and other Indian warriors, when Pacifica's ancestors had provoked him much less than adult white people had provoked the Santee Sioux? What kind of ethical sense does that make?

Wow, how on earth did you come to this? He's a lumberjack. They use axes. So it makes sense that his weapon of choice will be an axe. Plus, he was killed by an axe to the head. So a ghost killing people the same way he was killed isn't that strange.

And why did Dipper accept the Lumberjack Ghost's story about why he was angry at the Northwests? Couldn't Dipper be cynical enough to expect that the ghost might be lying or exaggerating to get Dipper's sympathy?

There was no reason NOT to. Dipper was still going to perform the exorcism, regardless of what the ghost said. And Northwest never even attempted to refuted any of the ghost's clames. In fact, he kinda confirmed them.

However, Dipper should have known the ghost would try to escape, so he never should have fallen for that trick about looking at the trees.

Later it became clear that the ghost actually did believe at least part of his story.

Huh? Why wouldn't the ghost believe his own life story?

Note that Dipper thinks that the Northwests are bad because they are liars and breakers of promises. But Dipper sometimes lies to get what he wants... If Dipper can find excuses for not keeping his promises the Northwests can find excuses for not keeping theirs, with just as much or little justification.

I really don't think its fair to compare Dipper actions to Northwest. Dipper has told little lies, nothing big, and no one has really been hurt by his actions.

However, this episode has pretty much confirmed that the Northwests are a familly of criminanls, with a history of worng doing. Many people died to build that Mansion, and then they stiffed the workers on their payment (the party). There's no way for the Northwests to justify what they did.

[–] magolding 10 years ago

Wow, how on earth did you come to this? He's a lumberjack. They use axes. So it makes sense that his weapon of choice will be an axe. Plus, he was killed by an axe to the head. So a ghost killing people the same way he was killed isn't that strange.

The Lumberjack Ghost was alive at a time - the 1860s - when people, including children, red or white, being killed for what their parents or tribe members or members of their race had done was rather common. The Lumberjack should have heard a lot of people expressing the opinion that killing children to get revenge on their parents or tribe or whatever was evil.

But not only did the lumberjack Ghost try to kill Pacifica just for being a Northwest, he tried to bash in her head with an axe, just as ferocious Indian warriors such as the Santee Sioux in Minnesota in 1862 had been criticized for doing. The Lumberjack Ghost apparently could not realize that he was doing what his era's equivalent of ISIS, or the Taliban, or Al Quaida, had done.

There was no reason NOT to. Dipper was still going to perform the exorcism, regardless of what the ghost said. And Northwest never even attempted to refuted any of the ghost's clames. In fact, he kinda confirmed them.

However, Dipper should have known the ghost would try to escape, so he never should have fallen for that trick about looking at the trees.

Whenever there is a controversy, each side's version of events should be considered to be suspect until proven to be 100 percent accurate.

Dipper should have suspected, for example, that the Lumberjacks and house builders worked for something else in addition to a promise to be invited to annual parties. The workers were probably paid salaries and/or had their room and board provided during the months or years that they worked. The ghost would have avoided mentioning that to make it seem like the Northwests had cheated the workers of all their promised reward instead of only part of it.

And the ghost's story of how he died is a little fishy. The flashback shows a mudslide sweeping him down the mountain and causing an axe to fly through the air and hit him in the head. But it shows him standing on the flat mountaintop before being swept away by a mudslide which has no higher position to come from. Since that is impossible, the Lumberjack probably died somewhere else and probably remembers his death incorrectly (he has been brooding for 150 years) to make it seem like the Northwests have more responsibility for it.

Huh? Why wouldn't the ghost believe his own life story?

So you can't imagine that a ferocious murderer willing to kill at least five children to get revenge for something which happened 150 years ago might possibly tell a story which is partially a lie in the hope of getting some assistance in his vengeance quest?

I really don't think its fair to compare Dipper actions to Northwest. Dipper has told little lies, nothing big, and no one has really been hurt by his actions.

However, this episode has pretty much confirmed that the Northwests are a familly of criminanls, with a history of worng doing. Many people died to build that Mansion, and then they stiffed the workers on their payment (the party). There's no way for the Northwests to justify what they did.

So you think that Dipper's broken promise not to investigate strange events seems perfectly innocent to Dipper? You don't think that Dipper would have any reason to fear that continuing to investigate could perhaps possibly get him and Mable killed? Didn't Dipper, Mabel, and three other children get killed in this very episode partially as a result of Dipper doing something - ghostbusting - which probably violated his promise to Grunkle Stan?

[–] Deadpool_vs_theLeprecorn 10 years ago

The Lumberjack should have heard a lot of people expressing the opinion that killing children to get revenge on their parents or tribe or whatever was evil.

He's a vengeful ghost, he's not going to care who he takes down in his quest.

But not only did the lumberjack Ghost try to kill Pacifica just for being a Northwest, he tried to bash in her head with an axe, just as ferocious Indian warriors such as the Santee Sioux in Minnesota in 1862 had been criticized for doing.

Well, bashing someone on the head is the most effective way to kill someone with an axe.

Whenever there is a controversy, each side's version of events should be considered to be suspect until proven to be 100 percent accurate.

Dipper did try to get the other side of the story. After the lumberjack's version, he confronted Northwest. Northwest did nothing to disprove the claim. He even threatened Dipper, an action an innocent person wouldn't do. Then Pacifica says, "I'm sorry! I should've have told you!" Which is as good as a confession. They all knew exactly what Dipper was talking about. Never once did anyone say something like "What are you talking about, boy. What is this nonsense." So, by the way they acted, they pretty much confiremed the ghost's story.

So you think that Dipper's broken promise not to investigate strange events seems perfectly innocent to Dipper? You don't think that Dipper would have any reason to fear that continuing to investigate could perhaps possibly get him and Mable killed? Didn't Dipper, Mabel, and three other children get killed in this very episode partially as a result of Dipper doing something - ghostbusting - which probably violated his promise to Grunkle Stan?

You act as though Dipper can see into the future. He thought this was going to be a simple ghostbusting job. He didn't know how bad it would get.

And that promise to Stan is a duoble-edged sword. Dipper is a smart kid, a bookworm, and has seen a lot of detective shows (the whole Headhunter episode with Duck-tective). After the Gideon thing, he knows there is something big in Gravity Falls that people are willing to hurt others to get. He has had a run in with Bill Cipher, and knows something big is coming. If he doesn't continue to investigate, something bad might happen. If he continues to investigate, he might be able to stop it. Both choices could lead to someone getting hurt.

[–] TwoMushrooms 10 years ago

"The Lumberjack Ghost apparently could not realize that he was doing what his era's equivalent of ISIS, or the Taliban, or Al Quaida, had done."

- How is nobody else cracking up due to the complete stupidity of this sentence?! You my friend are (unintentionally) hillarious. It's almost as fun reading you post as it is to watch a comedy cartoon.

I'm having trouble with a patient of mine; he's a teenage drug addict who's being molested. By me.

[–] dahaka-535-16877 10 years ago

I doubt he meant it literally. When people say "you're the worst", it's usually just teasing.

[–] KLange 9 years ago

I don't think being turned into wood actually killed the people there. After all, wood is a living substance. However, if the mansion had burned down, it definitely would have killed them.

>If the Lumberjack died 150 years ago, in the early 1860s, he should have heard many contemporary stories of Indian warriors bashing in the heads of children with axes, and killing children in other ways, merely because those children were white or belonged to enemy tribes. He probably listened to stories of the Santee Sioux uprising in Minnesota in 1862 and was horrified by the cruelty of the Sioux.

Then again, he wasn't exactly in his right mind.

>Note that Dipper thinks that the Northwests are bad because they are liars and breakers of promises. But Dipper sometimes lies to get what he wants, and after defeating the zombies Gruncle Stan and Dipper both made promises to each other and both had their fingers crossed behind their backs. If Dipper can find excuses for not keeping his promises the Northwests can find excuses for not keeping theirs, with just as much or little justification.

Dipper is pretty minor when it comes to lying and what not. The Northwests are not just liars, but outright sociopaths.