MovieChat Forums > American Horror Story (2011) Discussion > S7 E 7 "Valerie Solanas Died for Your Si...

S7 E 7 "Valerie Solanas Died for Your Sins: Scumbag"

posted 7 years ago by Popcorn Kernel (2368)
20 replies | jump to latest

Thoughts?
First, to confess: I really don't like Lena Dunham and every scene she was in (too many monologues by her) was annoying. But once they flashed back to current time with Frances Conroy, it was a good episode. I love her, she is always one of my favorites in every season. Interesting but ridiculous subplot about the Zodiac killings really being SCUM killings.
I don't get the twist at the end though. Is Bebe actually on Kai's side? Is she a double agent or is she really on the men's side and is using the women to... what purpose? Kai is the one who came up with "Men lead, Women bleed" as a slogan, but made Winter think it was Harrison, and Harrison got killed for it.
It kind of reminded me of the flashback where SCUM killed their gay male members, and the neo-SCUM group led by Bebe killed Harrison. But are they still puppets of Kai without realizing it? Why did Kai want Harrison dead? Harrison was going to make him an iron throne.
Why would Bebe work as a pawn of Kai when it seems to be the opposite of everything she stood for?
I also feel like they made a parallel between Andy Warhol and Kai. Where Andy told Valerie that the only thing she'd be remembered for is shooting him. This makes me think the new SCUM plot to kill Kai will fail and they will become a footnote too.

It's kind of classic Ryan Murphy in many ways. Pitting gay males against women while meanwhile the real villain (the patriarchal straight male) plays them against eachother.

[–] SammiWin (1112) 7 years ago

At first I thought I was watching the wrong show...I don't know who Lena Dunham is, but she was as annoying as her storyline. Frances Conroy was good, but I never caught her characters name until I looked it up online. I don't know anything about this SCUM, but it was like a 180...where is this going....I was hoping they were going somewhere interesting with this, but when they got to the zodiac killings I really felt annoyed and bored. Is Murphy confusing his shows? Felt like an American Crime Story mixed with American Horror and a lot of black comedy, which isn't a bad thing. A few times though, I thought I was watching Fargo.

Seems there has been a lot of twists these last episodes huh? I guess we don't really know "Kai's" plan, it keeps changing...

The parallel between Andy and Kai, is interesting - didn't Peters play Andy too?

More like typical Ryan Murphy-hope that didn't sound rude, but a lot of his stuff is predictable.

[–] Popcorn Kernel (2368) 7 years ago

Lena Dunham has that show "girls" , I have never watched the show but I saw her in a movie called Tiny Furniture and I just really disliked her. She wrote the movie and writes her TV show, so it's not just her as an actress that I dislike, it is her writing too. She has a very whiny sort of 'privileged white girl feminism' point of view, I hate to even broach this because people will assume I am anti-feminist and I am not. I am a female and I am pro-feminist, but Lena Dunham is an embarrassment to feminism, not a poster child.

I thought that was Evan Peters in the Andy Warhol wig. I knew about SCUM because I saw another movie with Lili Taylor as Valerie Solanis (I Shot Andy Warhol). Ryan Murphy does seem to like throwing everything but the kitchen sink into his shows. One coherent plot isn't enough, lets throw 5 more side plots in there just to get a bunch of other actors in small roles. It's usually like at the halfway point in each season when he gets bored and starts throwing all the random shit into the soup pot.

Murphy's stuff is only predictable if you have watched other things of his. It's not predictable by any standard TV tropes but it is predictable within the Ryan Murphy resume. He does seem to repeat these themes of gay males pitted against women. In Nip/Tuck, and in previous seasons of AHS too.
There was an interesting point when SCUM 2.0 was killing Harrison and the women told him, you should be on our side, you are from a marginalized discriminated group too (feminists trying to make an ally of gay men) and he rebuffed them and said 'I'm still a MAN". I feel like he's kind of speaking Murphy's own views, he has always been a bit misogynist while at the same time having female icons and heroines. (you know all the pop stars and actresses that have a huge gay male fan base- like Lady Gaga, Mariah Carey, Joan Crawford, Judy Garland, Bette Midler, etc) Murphy puts this sort of female icon on a pedestal to worship (continued)

[–] Wildechild (193) 7 years ago

A lot of gay men are like Harrison and resent women. Most see them as competition, they want the alpha males all to themselves.

[–] ADBruno1985 (3481) 7 years ago

I agree with everything you just said in the above, and have noticed much of itself.

To which, to "reintro," you and I have bantered on here for a bit, lmao, I always got the vibe you were a guy, maybe gay (that's what I am), just amused me. Not something that matters just gave me a chuckle.

[–] Freakflag1 (126) 7 years ago

Ever since I read what Lena Dunham did to her sister in her autobiography, she just gives me the creeps. For those of you who don't know, she confessed to stuffing rocks up her baby sisters vagina when she was a baby and Lena was like 7, she used to bribe her sister for kisses with candy when she was a teen, and she used to masturbate in bed while her sister was asleep next to her. I'm sure she thought this would go over as a "omg Lena is so quirky" thing, but it creeps me out. The sister denies any abuse, but still very odd.

That said, I thought she did a good job a short valerie.

[–] Stringey (260) 7 years ago

What the he!! That is screwed up what she did!! Did Lena get sexually abused or even just badly physically abused to give her the idea to do that to her sister???? That also gives me major creeps.

[–] Popcorn Kernel (2368) 7 years ago

I can't really hate someone for something they did when they were 7 years old, a child that age can do great harm (can even kill) but is not mentally developed enough to bear moral responsibility the same way an adult or even a teen does.
But yes it is still creepy and she is just problematic to me in many ways.
Even the hubris of writing an autobiography when you are that young and have so few accomplishments. Problematic!

[–] lennonforever (2453) 7 years ago

She's a sick fuuk, that's for sure. It serves them right, all the sexual misconduct in Hollywood. They are used to this debauchery, an now are condemning it? They are hypocrites for sure.

[–] lennonforever (2453) 7 years ago

It's usually like at the halfway point in each season when he gets bored and starts throwing all the random shit into the soup pot.

This is EXACTLY what Murphy does. Season 5-8 are terrible.

[–] ADBruno1985 (3481) 7 years ago

I agree, I too may be a bit biased by a dislike for the actress. She was good in the role though.

And always love Frances Conroy. Her role is a bit confusing, but at least that means she'll likely be back and has some good material coming.

Agreed, making them Zodiac was duhm, there's enough going on. Was silly. But I think an attempt to show how widespread and confusion-inducing their plan could be.

"Why would Bebe work as a pawn of Kai when it seems to be the opposite of everything she stood for?" I don't have an answer for this, but I think the question in and of itself is an interesting representation of the season. I think it shows how cults worm their way into your head so much, you and other, completely different people, disregarding all of that for one common goal. I think a good example would be Ivy and Winter tying Gary up before the election. Ivy and Winter wanted Clinton, Gary wanted Trump. They were intent on abusing each other and getting in each other's way on that. However, they all support Kai, and Kai's goals make the 2017 election almost incidental to the plot.

I agree, they definitely drew parallels. We've gotten to know Ally. We completely understand where she's coming from, and narratively, we should be on her side. But in the story, shooting at Kai will be what she's remembered for by the public.

Side note, Evan Peters was amazing as Andy Warhol. Of course he's a chameleon actor and pretty much always amazing. I just hope we're not, from here on out, going to get a history lesson on a different cult each week, especially if contrived crap like the Zodiac thing happens again. That would just make it feel like they were short on plot and had an extra episode to fill.

[–] Popcorn Kernel (2368) 7 years ago

The Halloween special episode is coming soon, when all the dead characters from other seasons can come back (and other random dead folks), so we might get lots of cameos of other cult leaders. Kind of the way all the serial killers had their yearly dinner party at the Hotel Cortez. Too bad Charles Manson is still alive! I expect we will see Jim Jones, who do you think will play him?

[–] exatera (3953) 7 years ago

"I don't get the twist at the end though. Is Bebe actually on Kai's side?"

We are supposed to infer that Kai is the genius behind all this. He is a master manipulator, he knew he could get more out of the women if he marginalized them, so he did precisely that, and used Bebe as a tool in accomplishing that. And also for some reason he decided he needs to get rid of the gay guy.

I think everything that happens is happening because that's how Kai wants it - that's the point.

[–] Popcorn Kernel (2368) 7 years ago

But Bebe had her own agenda before Kai was ever born. He wasn't the genius behind SCUM or behind the Zodiac, if anything, he is a copycat of them. What is in it for HER? She must have some motivation that makes sense for that character.

It still makes not much sense that he wanted to kill Harrison, when Harrison was 100% gung-ho on board the crazy train. He wanted to put Kai on a throne- he worshiped him.

[–] exatera (3953) 7 years ago

We'll see. I think there is a lot more to this story line.

[–] NormaAndNorman (3900) 7 years ago

Worst episode in AHS history.

I hope they never bring LD back. It was even worse than what I anticipated and that's really bad.

Love Conroy and Brewer. It was nice to see them. I would trade either of them for Sarah Paulson!

[–] Popcorn Kernel (2368) 7 years ago

Frances Conroy always steals the show, every season. I love Lily Rabe too, I miss her.
Any final words?
BALENCIAGA!

[–] ALurker (485) 7 years ago

I'm not too familiar with Lena Durham or a lot of her works. Never watched 'Girls'. But I thought she was alright in that role as Valerie. Even though her character kind of felt extra to me at the same time. I'm not too sure how to feel about that actress yet, I just know that she apparently seems to be hated a lot.

But other than that, I thought it was an okay episode. I liked Frances Conroy as Bebe so far, Peters as Andy Warhol, and thought the twist in the end was unique.

[–] lennonforever (2453) 7 years ago

Me, TPTB gotta throw in twists cause they have no coherent story right now.

[–] Popcorn Kernel (2368) 7 years ago

Most of the people that hate Lena Dunham, hate her because she's a feminist. You know the usual broflakes and MRA who call everyone a fat ugly SJW and just automatically hate any feminist.
But then even if I am female and liberal, I can still not like her for other reasons but I don't like to get lumped in with that other icky group that hates her. If that makes sense?

[–] ALurker (485) 7 years ago

Sure. I guess she can be very vocal on a lot of things (and then some) while being an entertainer.