MovieChat Forums > 13 Reasons Why (2017) Discussion > Disappointing

Disappointing

posted 8 years ago by FilmFan1983 (128)
11 replies | jump to latest

I thought the actors did a great job and the series was great from a production standpoint, but disappointed for several reasons.

It was just plain odd that it took Clay so long to listen to those tapes. In all that time, he kept accepting Hannah's version of the truth, while trying to use it as leverage on his classmates. The frustrating thing was, they had plenty of time to confront Clay with their version of the truth, or at least put their own misdeeds in context, yet simply played coy knowing that he would eventually listen to all the tapes.

Hannah was a poor girl, but many of her classmates were victims as well. Justin was emotionally bullied by Bryce, and was abused at home, yet is cast aside when he tries to do the right thing for his girlfriend? He did show actual fortitude in finally confronting Bryce. While I did recognize him not telling Jessica what happened was more selfish on his part despite his justification that he was trying to protect her from the truth, she should still have recognized the opportunity that she now had a witness on her side.

I thought Hannah going to that party and getting in that hot tub was tremendously stupid, but no one deserves what happened to her next. However, that scene in the office wasn't handled well. The counselor pleads with her for more information so he could alert the authorities, but she decides she doesn't want to make her admission public because she fears further ridicule. Again, she already knows Bryce is a serial rapist, yet is thinking only of herself in this scenario. If she had leveled that accusation anonymously, any one of Bryce's potential victims stood a chance of being tormented.

And that was my main problem with Hannah. Despite her self righteousness, she did little to help others who were suffering while she was alive. Instead of involving the authorities, or even talking to her parents, she chose to blame everyone else for not doing enough. The fact that she eventually comes to understand some of her failings doesn't absolve the fact that she was acting irresponsibly.

I was also frustrated that the series ended with a cliffhanger. Certainly, this should be a self contained story if I ever saw one, but as it is the series ends with no real resolution. We don't know what happens regarding the lawsuit, or with Alex, or even see the consequences of the truth getting out. Supremely weak finale.

[–] WengerOut (5) 8 years ago

Could not agree more. Everything u mentioned was exactly how i felt whilst watching this. Very disappointing.

[–] EloraWood (158) 8 years ago

I think it depends on how you view the show.

I don't think that the point was to make Hannah look like a great person who fell victim to several bad things and then committed suicide.

I actually thought that it was very good because it showed how imperfect everyone is. We are.

We only see and feel our own reality.
She didn't know (or, in her own pain care) about everyone elses struggle.

I thought the point (or one of them), was to show how all of them/us do this; see situation just from our point of view and react to it unwittingly with the little information we have.

[–] FilmFan1983 (128) 8 years ago

I agree in the sense that Hannah is portrayed as being somewhat unreliable in her testimony due to her emotional detachment. However, her wishes are mostly carried out by the people most important in her life (Clay and her parents) and their actions are portrayed as justifiable even as they go after her classmates, who were mostly victims themselves. or the school.

Hannah became so good at hiding her pain to the point where she was showing no outward signs. She even had her parents fooled. I can't see how Mr. Porter could have done more when those people closest to her couldn't even reach her.

The show did a fine job in having us question the motives of those around her, and providing no easy answers, but in the end asks us to accept that everyone else is partially to blame.

[–] EloraWood (158) 8 years ago

Again, I didn't feel that the movie wanted me to accept anything.

I don't think that, for the most extreme example, Jessica, will be blamed for much after they hear what happend to her (as they show with Clay, first he goes off on her, then he wants to help her). Even if she wasn't raped, an adult hearing those tapes will react differently. We know that friendships break up, that bad things in school are forgotten years later and that we make our own life.

I also didn't feel that what Clay did was right, specially when he didn't have the full picture yet. But I thought that this was done on porpoise- that he went trough the tapes so slowly - so we could see the reactions to half baked informations and the consequences that can bring with it.

The parents, as adults in general, we are so busy with "grown up things", we often forget how it was to be a teenager. Same with her parents.

The school however could have reacted differently. PR seems more important than justice. A real psychologist would be better equipped than the councilor (who should, at the very least, have contacted the parents). Hoewever, even there are more realities. Schools are mostly underfunded, need good PR and sport teams to get funding, have a lot "grown up" things to think about that many kids or kid problems fall through the cracks.

I felt that the movie (writers) just told a story, not trying to make me think something, or justify actions of the characters or try to sway me one way to another.

If anything it showed the opposite- that there are many layers to any given situation, that things are often deeper and more complicated (or just very simple and we hype them up in an emotional state) as they seem and that everyone reacts based on their own way of viewing and experiencing them with whatever information absorbt at that time.

Porter however did react very unprofessional. Yes, she was hiding her feelings from her parents, but to him she actually confided that she was raped. Legally he was correct with his answer, but you can't just leave it there. And he knew that he made a mistake - because he lied when he was asked if she came to see him - he said only ones when they talked about college.

And Bryce is obviously guilty.

[–] FilmFan1983 (128) 8 years ago

Thanks for the detailed response.

I agree that Mr. Porter's actions in the wake of Hannah's suicide made him look more guilty. I don't necessarily disagree that he should have notified the parents, but remember that Hannah never admitted to wanting to take her own life. That type of accusation is extremely serious and could result in someone being involuntarily committed. It was an extremely tough call, most likely one he wasn't qualified to make. I thought he was making an effort to be sensitive to Hannah's situation but any serious intervention would have required someone with more authority.

I certainly can understand why the parents went after the school, but it was apparent they had missed the signs of their daughter slipping away, which just makes the situation much more tragic.

[–] puremind (254) 8 years ago

Exactly this.

In the first part of the series, we are lead to believe the events are trivial and misunderstandings and there is no reason for the first people on the tape to want to withhold the information on them, and for some of them (Alex, Marcus, Zach, Jessica, Ryan) their "faults" were very minor and you don't understand why everyone is so intent on preventing Clay from releasing the tapes - it is only later you discover their true situation:
Alex has an overpowering father would be disappointed in him
Jessica is ashamed about the rape situation (at first not revealed).

Marcus, Ryan and Zach were not vehemently opposed, nor did they have a reason to be but were just followers and more than anything are guilty of not standing up for what is right and following the wrong charismatic people at school.

Overall the show is very clever in that it does not try to shove guilt down people's because of kids that are intrinsically fragile and fallible. However it does push guilt onto parents by showing a direct relationship between certain education patterns and how kids develop, precisely because kids don't have all of the answers and can be fragile.

Justin is the good guy who suffered from a mother choosing her new boyfriend over him, which explains why he is so attacked to Jessica
Alex has this overpowering father which sucks out individuality out of him
Tyler has a mom that keeps invading his privacy and he ends up stalking others thinking it is a normal behavior.
Courtney has had 2 gay dads who probably tried to hard to raise a straight kid
Hannah's parents were being too naïve, permissive and overprotective which means Hannah wasn't prepared for the harshness of other kids
Sheri and Jessica seemed to have good parents and eventually come forward despite the strong burden that weighs on them.
Clay was raised by fair, trusting parents neither too strict nor too disrespectful of privacy and seems to fair the best of all the kids - but even then as a kid you don't understand your feelings and find them hard to control

So overall, parenting is not a 100% safe way of keeping your kids out of trouble, and some kids are naturally more fragile than others but if parents respect their kids, show them understanding without choking their privacy or being overprotecting, chances are kids will form deeper and more meaningful relationships.

More than parenting though, the show depicts the divide between millennials and their parents. Millenials seek instant gratification and have lost the ability to communicate with each other on a deeper level. Friendships form and dissolve faster. They were told by their parents that they are good kids and will achieve great things, only to discover reality is much harsher than they thought.

Overall the book and series have captured the essence of the millennial generation as analyzed by Simon Sinek:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eem-w1Uwf_I

This makes it a great show - it does not try to make people sympathize with Hannah, she was weak (as Skye depicted her), choosing the easy way out instead of fighting for the people she loves. It simply observes educational case studies, which can help both parents and kids in dealing with millennial scenarios.

Those kids are immature and scared of forming deep meaningful bonds because they have been rebuked and shamed too many times, they have lost the ability to trust each other and develop borderline personalities - it is everyone's responsibility to become more aware of these issues and hopefully it can help kids value deep friendship and respect in others more than they do today.

Today, they will form superficial relationships for instant gratification, just to feel better, less numb and end up getting hurt in the process. It is easier to win over something you never had, even if it is just a flint, than to aim for something more difficult, messier, deeper that requires hard work but will ultimately offer more fulfilment and stability.

We are in an era of unstable, superficial relationships, where kids simply consume one superficial relationship after another, pick dates on an app, text instead of calling, which makes them unable to trust their most private inner feelings to anyone, unable to form deep meaningful bonds, which all human beings need.

[–] EloraWood (158) 8 years ago

☺️👍🏻

I have seen the Simon Sinek Videos before - couldn't agree more. I am a bit older than that but caught myself doing a few of the things he'd mentioned (when someone at a Restaurant uses the bathroom, while waiting, checking messages instead of looking around, talking to strangers etc) and I remembered the times when we didn't have cell phones - I try to balance it a little better now. But yes, the poor souls who never had it any different; I really do not envy anyone growing up in this time.

Our daughter is too small for all this right now, but it will be challenging trying to balance this when she is older. Can't forbid it if all her friends have it, but don't want her getting sucked into it either.
In Theorie we have a pretty good idea how to handle it, but everyone with kids knows that the best planning still often doesn't work out 😓

[–] beauq81 (1091) 8 years ago

People have often been more for instant gratification, than deeper relationships. Children are especially like that, it's in the biology of growing up. Just because people spent more time with each other, doesn't mean they established any kind of real connection.

[–] vicky_lc2001 (1907) 7 years ago

Why are these kids considered millennials'? Aren't they generation zed? Millenials were born in the 80s and 90s, some would even put it as far back as 1977.

[–] Pinchuno (4) 8 years ago

[deleted]

[–] Pinchuno (4) 8 years ago

I agree 100% with the OP's post.