I hear this film has yet another CIA agent who saves the day. I have no intention of seeing it but need to know in what way the CIA is presented. I'm working on a piece on war propaganda in modern American mainstream films.
shareYeah, it's presented in a positive way, with the key American side kick being an agent who helps saving the day (the rest of the world, rather than Wakanda). Also, despite the main villain having been an operative of the government overthrowing foriegn governments and such, a connection is not made between the two (athe antagonist and the agency) rather we are meant to believe that these efforts to cause revolution and chaos in other countries is due to deep seated daddy issues...
It really is worth seeing as this film is being accepted in the press as an example of empowerment... And the role of the CIA is not commented on in the press at all..
Agent Ross said Killmonger was “one of ours” and mentioned CIA instabilitation missions. Also Ross is referred to as a colonizer. The CIA does not look all that squeaky clean in this movie.
share(Spoilers)
Ross redeems the CIA in the movie by risking his life to save the Wakandan woman when Erik attacks the CIA investigation place... and Erik is seen as lone actor/bad apple in his quest to take control of Wakanda and revolutionise the world... Also, Ross risks his life again to save the world from Wakanda's weapons in the final thrird of the movie... So CIA is redeemed as well as seen as a force for stability in the world against rogue actors...
It's typical... Even more CIA friendly than London Has Fallen as the hero there was just a rogue American secret service dude rather than the CIA who did the attack that inspired the terrorist blowback...
I think this movie (Black Panther) will be very interesting for the OP to watch and assess for himself in the context of his study...
Except that Ross doesn't save the planet from Wakandan weapons because the CIA told him to, he did it on his initiative.
So the CIA gets no credit there.
No, I don't see it that way. It's implicit that CIA is working for the greater good as it is full of idealistic, cutey-nerd guys like Ross who will do the right thing...
It's a very beautified portrayal of CIA and it's agents...
Contrast that with the moral ambiguity in portrayals of CIA and it's agents in movies like The Good Shepard and it's as if they're not even talking about the same organisation...
I think the OP really should watch the movie himself. I would like to hear his take as there seems to be some disagreement here
I disagree. Ross's mission was to go to Korea and buy vibranium from Andy Serkis, so when he woke up in Wakandan and wasn't allowed to contact his superiors, his orders didn't cover the situation and he had to actually on his own initiative.
So we don't really know what the CIA is up to. We don't know what they want the vibranium for, or what their relationship with the thieves was like. All we really know is that they hired both Ross and Killmonger.
"Also Ross is referred to as a colonizer. "
BECAUSE HE IS WHITE. Not because he is CIA. The same reason Shuri addressed Bucky as a "broken WHITE BOY"
See the racism there?
That bugged me too.
shareThere can't be racism towards white people. Don't you know all whites are inherently evil, therefore subject to all criticism without complaint. You need to get WOKE!
sharelol. Who do you think Killmonher is talking about when he says "our people don't have the weapons to do a revolution against them" [or something like that]
I actually don't remember him saying that? That almost sounds like a desire for genocide. I'm assuming "them" means white boys. I did catch him mentioning how people like us are treated poorly all over the world,but failed to mention how neighboring African countries are notorious for enslaving their own people to this day.
sharehe was talking about Governments and overthrowing them, while talking blacks should get guns to do a revolution. The "whites" are under texted.
There's a lot of stuff about black slavery that Hollywood s' SJW mentality doesn't want to address [Arabs enslaving blacks, blacks enslaving blacks, whites also being slaves, etc]. It's not PC to address those.
The places mentioned about shipping weapons too was London, New York and HONG KONG.
Hong Kong is ruled by China.
Not exactly hitting the white man if you are arming oppressed groups in China and South East Asia is there. Because there are a few there who aren't primarily pissed at Western Europe and the US. They maybe pissed at them but they have higher targets to hit first.
So much for your idea that Killmonger's plan was simply to hit whitey and that the film's agenda was just to do down whites.
London - white majority
New York - white majority
Hong Kong/China - Asian majority with Economic ties to the overall White majority nations [such as England and USA]
Ie - Killmonger is an advocate for Black Supremacy in a movie where whites are depicted as "Colonizer" and "broken white boy" [by Shuri]
So much for your train of thought.
Killmongers plan - give the weapons to the War dogs who would pass them to locally oppressed group. Yes it would lead in his eyes to black supremacy. But his targets not simply white people. It would be any nation in his way.
And yeah Hong Kong has links to the West, but who is the local population pissed at. It ain't those in Burbank California. Bejing is the people the local population of Hong Kong is having issues with the political restrictions main land China has put on their representation.
Also Tibet - closer to Hong Kong than London. Some may have issues with China and willing to drop a peaceful philosophy if given the possibility of actually winning.
Basically there are many within Chinese territory that wouldn't mind getting rid of the present ruling class there before turning any anger on those on the other side of the Pacific or in Europe.
That is before we get into mention there is stories of racism between Han chinese and black people. Killmongers target in Hong Kong would not be kill Whitey. It would to be destabilise the Chinese government and any other governments.
Indonesia has issues within its boarders with some groups, India and Pakistan not perfect. Burma is in the news about its treatment of its Muslim population.
Also there is the issue that China has been investing a lot in Africa lately to the point where it has been described by some as China aiming to colonise the continent.
Sure they called Ross coloniser - big deal. Get over it. He is a member of a foreign government that tends to get its own way when coming to other smaller countries - that is before we go into history. Also broken white boy. Can you be more triggered and more white centric? The world isn't based solely on the white people these days.
How much money does the USA owes China again?
"Also broken white boy. Can you be more triggered and more white centric? The world isn't based solely on the white people these days."
You are using the buzz word "triggered" wrong. You see, I'm not triggered. I'm stating the obvious: the movie is racist against whites.
Shuri could say "Bucky", "Ross", "visitor", "friend" or "person". But nah... "white boy". Because, obvious reasons of racism are obvious.
And how much money does Nigeria owe the US? By your logic the world goes down when the dollar goes down.
And you don't think you've been triggered - seriously? Breathe and read your posts.
Nigeria isn't one of the riches countries of the world, neither is it one of the most prominent in world Economy/Politics.
So, what is your answer?
No, I don't. Learn to read.
I can put a lot into the fact that what Hong Kong wants is free democracy and no interference from the central committee in Bejing which would actually benefit trade and with the US. Which would mean that Hong Kong if if gained independence - quite happy to have free trade with the US, Singapore etc etc.
I could put that the people of Tibet - no major flying fuck about bringing down the US.
I could put that Nigeria and other African states have their own concerns about improving their own lot rather than being desperate to bring down the US.
I could put that the US is more than capable of adapting to changing world situations and if it couldn't it wouldn't be in the position it is currently in and it has been shown before that the domino effect doesn't always mean the destruction of the West, if it was the Vietnam war would have caused more issues than it did. Though if the US has gotten so use to a status quo that it can't adapt to change it deserves to go down in the terms of power and influence.
But all of that won't count because all you see in this film is them not waving the US flag and them not saving the likes of New York.
That isn't simply being white centric that is being obessessed with your local environment - why? Because all you do is sounding triggered.
no one is talking about "bringing down the USA" we are talking about countries which are very developed and have obvious ties with the white world the movie makes damn sure to call "white boys" "Colonizers" and wants to arm against via Killmonger.
In case you haven't noticed I'm not American. So fuck off triggered SJW.
How do I know you aren't American?
You haven't outright stated it. The only other western country you've mentioned in this thread is England and England ain't a sovereign state. It hasn't been since 1707. It might be a country but it isn't a sovereign state.
But back to the film sending weapons to Hong Kong, and attempting to do so globally Killmonger is stating that the whole system is rotten, that not only white people are colonisers and the world would be better under his control, from what he sees as a utopia.
That in Killmonger's mind the world and its systems has shafted poor black people - because you are right it did, but he's also saying it did to a lot of other people too, hence the sending weapons to oppressed people all over the world. He states he has killed in Iraq, Afghanistan other black people in other countries and his tone his markings show he blames the US and the whole system (everyone) for that but he did so to learn their tactics and to gain skills.
He is also stating that poor black people got shafted by Wakanda as they were capable of turning the tide long ago and it did nothing and he was going to force change on them and make it the utopia that it marketed itself to it people and use it to equal ALL scores. Or did you not notice that he was called outsider by almost every Wakandan. He was black but not considered Wakandan, even though his father was its Prince.
But Killmonger's reasoning was much better than W'Kabi's in many ways. W'Kabi didn't care about the world outside Wakanda. Sure he was prepared to go out and fight and make sure the world was run right. But peacefully engage? Have the world's issues on his doorstep - no thanks.
His line about conquered and conqueror was basically his motivation. The world at large in the MCU had the likes of Stark's tech, SHIELD's tech, Inhumans and has been interacting with Thor's people. Wakanda's couldn't be isolationist and stay that way as soon the developed world's tech would match Wakanda's. One day even accidentally someone was going to come knocking even if their intentions weren't hostile but what reaction would they have to finding out Wakanda had been lying to the world for years.
So in W'Kabi's mind best for Wakanda to attack and conquer so it can set the terms of Wakanda's interaction, sort out the world in Wakanda's image and to have a buffer zone to protect greater Wakanda.
Killmonger wanted Wakanda to live up to his father's stories, settle scores and tear the system down and if that meant building his own empire so be it.
T'Challa wants what is best for his people and it is engaging. How much though is still to be seen.
W'Kabi wanted Wakanda to stay powerful, to have no-one strong enough to bring it down.
And the CIA and the US didn't give a flying fuck about Wakanda as it thought Wakanda wasn't useful in any sense. Ross said T'Chaka had said that Ultron and Klaw had used up all of their vibranium. It didn't care about the people of Wakanda after T'Chaka died. For all it knew that third world country could be being as oppressed as hell by its ruling class (a ruling class that puts on a cat costume with real claws - not sane in the slightest) but because it didn't suit it to get involved, the CIA, SHIELD, what was left of the avengers etc didn't try to investigate as Wakanda had no obvious benefits to the US even though its own head of state should come under justification of the Sokovia accords any time he wears the damn costume.
If you can't get that subtly I don't know what to tell you.
And I am surprised you haven't complained about the part where they put Martin Freeman in a black balaclava so he could get into Suri's lab.
I have stated it in this Forum a couple of times on Threads that are visible. You made an assumption and it fell flat. So that's on you.
Bottom line: Killmonger is a black supremacist, T'challa's sister is a racist and the movie is all about "yo niggas, we black, we standz togethas couse... reasons of slavery from centuries ago. Now go ask money for it and kill them crakas."
So basically people have to go hunting to ind the 'real' you? Scrap the surface instead of looking at the info you just shove in their face - why the hell should I? You don't want to look deeper into anything which in turn doesn't make me want to see anything deeper about you.
Though with your last statement I can now dismiss every single thing you think and say.
And even there is no doubt you'll shout something about sjw and snow flakes, you just came across as an unrepentent alt right troll.
Either you are aware of what is written on the Forum, or you're not.
It beats the crap of throwing erroneous suppositions at the air.
Now kindly fuck off kid.
Kindly?
I am aware of what is on this thread regarding. Going through to whole forum just to find out what you have written when you have shown here that you are closed minded to look at subtley of action...well I have a life.
Your entries when saying about China, was....USA economy. When that isn't the only reason to arm oppressed people in China, screams USA centred. Didn't go on about the UK's dependency on China contracts for major infrastructure did you. Just USA owes China money.
Now you can kindly move along
You will have to excuse twistedacrobat logic is not an area he excels in. You can always tell when he loses an argument because he tells you to fuck off when being proven wrong.
shareAwwww look. My doggy came back with his amazingly huge butt-hurt. :D
So precious. XD
they do seem stressed and it is sad that they have to go to the lengths to be abusive.
shareBeats the crap out of making stupid erroneous assumptions huh? :)
Apparently I've hit a nerve, have I?
Breath, get a stress toy or take a walk as you aren't doing yourself any favours on how you come across.
Aparently not. But nice try though. Next time, grow a brain.
well of I hadn't you wouldn't have come back o tell me so
shareThat's your butt-hurt.
shareThink it is more your desperation not to look like you weren't capable of having the last word on the subject.
Says that you may have some insecurities you may wish to look into.
awwwww... he still makes assumptions. So cute.
Tells more about you than me. :)
Right...did your parents not give you hugs or something that you are so desperate to have to the last word?
share^^^^ THE IRONY!!!!!
shareDo you know what that really means?
Or are you just working off the Alanis Morrisette definition?
^^^keeps coming back
shareThat's nice.
But seeing how you aren't actually adding anything new or important, I can't seem to start thinking something.
Is you coming back here to have the last word your way of letting people know you are still alive?
Killmonger mentions he is using the strategies of the oppressors and it is acknowledged by Ross that Killmonger was trained by the US.
So basically Killmonger was trained by the US to perform the same role that the Winter Soldiers, Bucky and the Black Widow had performed for Hydra and the Soviets. He was trained to destabilise governments and cause chaos under US orders.
So the CIA and the US don't exactly come out clean in it, though it is handled in a mature manner.
CIA's relationship to Erik killmonger mirrors T'Chaka/T'Chala's relationship to Erik, as Erik is half Wakandan and half American and his original trauma, victimisation and perversion is at the hand of Wakanda's royal house and then at the Agency as he is turned into a killing machine... But CIA is redeemed in the movie several times by Ross's actions, whereas Wakanda's royal house isn't 😉
shareThe CIA is redeemed by Ross' actions - ohh you are funny.
Ta for the laugh.
The CIA was willing to deal with Klaw, it, like Wakanda stomped over South Korean sovereignty and handed over an injured operative to a foreign isolationist power and had no idea what it was going to do with him outside a 'promise' to treat him.
The US military knew Erik was mentally unstable as the guy was self mutilating every time he killed someone and in Ross' words were something like scoring kills like a video game and he had won the nickname Killmonger. But they didn't keep tabs on the guy? Ross flat out states that Killmonger was trained to destabilise governments at points of transition. Basically stop them turning out how the US doesn't want - a la what Hydra did when it sent out the Winter Solider.
T'Challa acknowledges his father was wrong, that Erik is a monster of their own making. Killmonger's father in the vision by his face lets us know that he gets that he was wrong because of the damage it did to his son. T'Challa lets Erik challenge with the only proof being a ring and no DNA test, no telling the elders (who are quite happy with the status quo) that this looks like the individual that helped Klaw escape which would have tainted Erik in the council's eyes and he offered to get Erik help after the fight.
So the take away is that Ross was redeemed, T'Challa opens up because previous Wakandan isolationism won't work and we get that the previous generation of the royals gets that it was wrong. But the CIA as an organisation is still the CIA and the US is still the US as those themselves are not seen to change in any way or even aid anyone outside their agenda. In this the US and the CIA....well the CIA and the US.
In real life how would you expect the US to react to a non democratic country (which fictional Wakanda is the Marvel) that is basically more technologically powerful than it is with a embedded worldwide spy network. Also this nation is opening up outreach centres in its deprived areas and it knows that this country has just suffered political instability due to a USA trained operative that obviously had mental health issues even if he was half Wakandan.
All I can say is Black Panther 2 should be interesting. Even if the US in the MCU is kept neutral but with some iffy methods. How does Wakanda deal with the outside world, with religious missionaries (Christian and Islamic) who are threatened by its tribalistic faiths. Corporate businesses who want to set up in Wakanda. People from the outside stating that their political systems are outdated - people from the US or West stating that they should implement democracy rather than autocracy. How does Shuri deal with outside researchers pouring over her tech. M'Baku hated her age, can you imagine what engineering project managers would tell her 'that she maybe brilliant but she should listen and learn from their styles'
Yeah... but Ross is still the kind, cute, human face of CIA... He is almost cartoonesque in facial expression and is ultimately one of the movie's most heroic figures....
There is a reason they didn't cast a masculine actor and there is a reason that Ross is portrayed as almost all good, dutyful and ready to martyre himself...
He never even shows that the thought of leaving CIA has crossed his mind... He normalises CIA actions in the minds of the young children watching these movies 😉
Martin Freeman does give good face and from the looks of him wouldn't be seen as anything other than an office drone. (But hey he is Tim from the office)
And I agree that they didn't cast a traditional masculine actor, but also they didn't cast a completely weak one either and went more with the everyman aspect. I say that considering that Ross in the comics is that pathetic that at one point he may have accidently sold his soul for a pair of trousers.
Also with the politicisation of the film, the alt right even going more nuts if an actor that looked like a traditional white male hero gets barked down by the Jabri. In terms of its isolationist traditional stance the barking down of a non Wakandan makes complete and total sense, but the silencing a big muscled white guy would have gone down with some right wingers like a lead balloon of the silencing of white men in traditional roles.
But I like how in a way he is as much of a true believer in the US way is the best way as well as being a realist with regards to its methods - which in a way is an indictment of CIA and US methods. Though in many ways his opening up with regards to the fact that Killmonger was trained by the US could be seen by the CIA as a traitorous move, that he has been turned by the Wakandans as he didn't call the US for help when Killmonger turned up and didn't exactly push T'Challa into talking purely to the States.
On a side note I am waiting for is the blooper reel where there has to be a bit where those in the South Korean scene have had to have hammed it up with Martin Freeman and Andy Serkis with regards to having Bilbo Baggins, Gollem being in the same place as a ring of major importance to the film plot.
People would have been outraged if an all american type was cast in that role 😂
shareOh good god yes they would have gone nuts if say....Scott Eastwood was in that role and they didn't have him front and centre of the actual battle instead of shooting down cargo planes remotely.
Could you imagine the likes of Anne Coulter or Ben Shapiro complaining is M'Baku and co had barked down a truly red blood macho american male and he just took it after he took direction from a tiny little woman? Oh god the likes of Alex Jones would have had an aneurysm. Though that may have been worth it.
The Culinary Institute of America sends its regards:
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