McPhee in 'Let's Be Bad' - Smash (2012) Discussion

[–] writegirl1-2 11 years ago

I noticed it when my friend asked me "where's Kat in this"; I had not previously noticed (or cared to, LOL, I was too busy watching for the red dress). I think it was one of those misguided attempts to link up "Karen fantasizes herself into Ivy's shoes". Karen is shown on the floor at the end when they snap back into real-time rehearsal, so it makes sense she was part of the number, and I'm actually kind of glad they didn't make more of her presence; it was one of the few chances they didn't take to ruin Ivy/Megan having a scene all to herself.

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[–] smgfans 11 years ago

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=loKIhKIIeGY
at 12 seconds in, 30 seconds in and 49 seconds in, it's definitely McPhee. She's the camera's focal point of the chorus before Megan/Marilyn shows up.

Here's an idea: next time, instead of being late, just *beep* on my face-Emma Stone

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[–] cjanewatch 11 years ago

I don't know how I missed that!

So glad the internet provides fun people who pay attention to these things, lol.

No one in my "real life" would even know what the hell I was talking about.

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[–] 11 years ago

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[–] smgfans 11 years ago

I think you're correct. Once Megan/Ivy appears, there are no close ups of Katharine, so she may not have been present for the filming of that number- unless she is actually there and it's harder to spot her.

mcphans would point to this to say mcphee was a dancer

The 20th Century Fox Mambo was what first made me take notice of her as a dancer. Other numbers like SMASH and I Never Met a Wolf really show off her dance skills. I have never said "she is a dancer" because a dancer is someone who excels and trains daily to be considered a "dancer". In terms of musical theatre training and what that offers its dancers, I'd say McPhee is by all means a very good one. She never once looks uncomfortable in the Smash choreography and none of the other dancers outshine her- unless of course they're being told (as Karen was) to tone it down to allow Karen/Katharine to be as convincing as she can be. I do find it very surprising that she didn't do a lot of dancing in her older years (I believe she stopped as a child) because she is that good in all her numbers.

Here's an idea: next time, instead of being late, just *beep* on my face-Emma Stone

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[–] writegirl1-2 11 years ago

Have you taken account of the cutaways, and/or times when they only focus on "Karen's" below-neck body segments? Not that Megan is immune from the treatment either, but it would seem to behoove any consumer of media (and aspiring dancer) to keep in mind that when an actor's face is not in frame, it's often likely it's not their hands on the piano keyboard, feet cutting a rug, etc.; but someone with prodigious skills, who is being substituted so that the "face actor" looks phenomenal. I agree Kat is clearly dancing some segments, but we had folks who seemed to be lulled into thinking that Kat was doing the "black pumps step into the cupped hands of the dancers to walk approximately 12 feet 'across the stage'" in 1.15's Bombshell "Wolf", which I'm almost positive was the purview of some dance double with inhuman core strength, because of all the factors (the primary dancer's interaction with spotters, etc.) which clearly went on behind the scenes. We also didn't have or get to see what the dancer's upper body was doing during this stunt.

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[–] smgfans 11 years ago

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9MPmz7WPJeg
I would say that's definitely Katharine walking across the line up- perhaps not doing the front flip in their hands as she could hurt herself, but I think the rest is McPhee.

with inhuman core strength

Watching "Man's world" from Let's Be Bad is proof enough for me of the perfect physique and core strength Katharine has.

Have you taken account of the cutaways, and/or times when they only focus on "Karen's" below-neck body segments?

Yes, I know. For example, my favourite choreography is Mambo is when it hits the 1.50 mark and it was pieced together from 4 separate takes (probably 4 of many retakes) but I in the general scope of it, I do think Katharine is amazing in it.
Here's an idea: next time, instead of being late, just *beep* on my face-Emma Stone

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[–] locusnola 11 years ago

You are a dancer, please explain what steps in "Mambo" actually require any "amazing" dance ability. There isn't anything in the number I couldn't have done at about age 8. Heck, with the rehearsal time they had, I am certain I could do those steps NOW, and I haven't danced seriously in years. MsPhee has a lovely natural line, a little training, and a very clever choreographer, but that's about it.

Oh, right. So, she secretly trained a flock of sandflies.

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[–] 11 years ago

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[–] writegirl1-2 11 years ago

I have an as-yet-unconfirmed hunch a lot of it is a mambo, because of the name of the song, which in my (and probably even your) grandparents' day, millions of people worldwide did with relative celerity on a regular basis, and they weren't what we think of as trained dancers. It was just expected that people, some of whom were elderly themselves at the time, knew how to execute a variety of close dancing in a way that I certainly think is skilled in old news clips, with lots of these people never going anywhere near dance academies. Parents taught their children, etc. I'm not saying she's bad at it and neither, I think, is locusnola, but I think a lot of people could handle gracefully sliding their leg laterally.

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[–] Wink23 11 years ago

When you see an almost-30 year old performer doing moves that an 8 year old could do, your reaction isn't going to be "Wow, she's good!"

This is not a slur against the performer. It's just not a thought that is going to cross your mind.

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[–] writegirl1-2 11 years ago

When you see an almost-30 year old performer doing moves that an 8 year old could do, your reaction isn't going to be "Wow, she's good!"

This is not a slur against the performer. It's just not a thought that is going to cross your mind.

Well, you (the general "you") might, but you'd be, even if only subconsciously, grading on a curve, quite possibly spurred by the fact that you were one of those people who tuned in for Katharine McPhee, knew of her, yet had no idea she could dance at all. Which I'm sure had some kind of cheap, and I do mean cheap, cognate amongst trying to earn sentiment for Karen via Kat on the part of the marketing department. But it backfired for the audience in toto, especially those who did not come in as particular McPhee fans from the off. They expected all the extant pre-Smash Kat fans would start drooling in approbation at what Kat - not Karen - could do as a "surprise!". Using the cult of personality bleed-through to make Karen more popular and accepted from the off.

Problem: it backfired.

By calling attention to Kat's dancing and treating it as something we should marvel over, because we spent so much time on the learning process with her trying to increase our viewer identification; yet simultaneously having other characters tell us overtly that Karen's not picking up quickly and is showing by her dancing that she's too green for this role, they were just creating more confusion in the viewer's minds. Again the dichotomy: you have to think it's marvelous that naive little Karen Cartwright can do it at all, but she's also supposed to be "certainly trained" enough to the point where it's not silly for her to show up in contention for this role.

Conversely, I knew as much about Megan Hilty's dance talent as I knew about her acting talent (read: nothing as of yet), so of course when the show trots out Ivy to us, presents us Ivy matter-of-factly as able to do all this choreography, the promo continuing to describe her as "triple-threat" (to the point that PBS was still trotting it out at end of first season for Megan's appearance at the Capitol 4th); as we discussed I believe ages ago, I believe the story utterly.

By shining less of a spotlight around the momentous occasion of Ivy dancing, THEN they create their real, solid viewer identification. Poor real underdog! Just shows up like a trouper, the hawt director doesn't seem to appreciate her contribution for free (to HIS audition no less - basically Ivy got him the job) and blows her off; but "Karen's green, but she's certainly been trained!" he will wet-dream enthusiastically 30 minutes later. About the character whom they've shown us "screwing up".

Conversely, the more marvelous they tell us in-show that Karen is by executing simple steps, and the more members of the audience who look at it and think "yeah, they have asked for dancing as part of her job and that's clearly dancing; so what? It's not particularly flashy or thrilling dancing, even a duffer like me can tell this is standard dance knowledge," the more of a spotlight it shines on the fact that - just like Ivy - we expect Karen to be up to a certain standard. The fussing over Karen's dancing - extra time and verbal scoldings - hangs a lantern on it. Requires us to infer that it is more marvelous than they tell us it is when she "nails it", simultaneously hoist by the script's own petard.

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[–] locusnola 11 years ago

I didn't say she executed poorly - not at all. What I said was that she had cleverly designed but extremely simple, easy choreography TO execute - which was why it looked fine.

Oh, right. So, she secretly trained a flock of sandflies.

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[–] smgfans 11 years ago

If you watch Lets Be Bad (the episode, not the number) then there is a part when they are rehearsing the dance and Karen is clearly visible behind Megan and doing the same choreography as the rest of the dancers. Very quick, very sharp choreography. Do you still think those combinations are simple and easy? I guess what I'm asking is:

The choreography that we see in Smash; numbers like Lets Be Bad, Wolf and ones that we see Katharine or Megan dancing with the ensemble (I can't recall if Megan ever had to do the same steps as them since we never see her dance as an ensemble member), are you saying that that's not realistic choreography or dance steps that you would see performed from a Broadway chorus? Did they "dumb it down" do allow the actors to look of a similar standard to the professionals in the cast? Cause when I watch Karen/Katharine in the background of the Lets Be Bad rehearsals (and Ivy's Wolf rehearsals), I never think Katharine looks any less sharp, lyrical or technical as the rest of them.

Here's an idea: next time, instead of being late, just *beep* on my face-Emma Stone

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[–] locusnola 11 years ago

Yes, the choreography in which Karen had to be seen as part of the ensemble was pretty basic stuff. Looks cool, yes, but not hard. The rest of "Let's Be Bad" was dancers-only supporting Hilty, and McPhee couldn't have done it.

The background dancers in "History is Made at Night" do more difficult things, too; again, McPhee isn't among them.

No, we never see Ivy dancing in the ensemble except in "Heaven and Earth."

Oh, right. So, she secretly trained a flock of sandflies.

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[–] twee-de-bourg 10 years ago

The choreographer has specifically noted that all the choreography was designed to suit the skills of McPhee and Hilty. His job isn't just to create something to entertain the audience, it was to make them look good.

I concur that McPhee is technically a better dancer than Hilty, and is fit and has a dancer's build, which tends to make the end result look prettier. It's hard to tell what Hilty is capable of though, as they gave her less and less to do as the series went on, despite impressive performances early on : particularly the baseball number, which was the most complicated choreography done on the show. (Because they had a lot more time for it.)

But to address an earlier query, look at the finale number, with Hilty and McPhee side by side singing a farewell to Smash. At many points, McPhee is clearly executing the steps better. But Hilty appears more natural on stage, more fluid and more like she isn't just "dancing," but "being." "Performing." And at the end of the day, I'd much rather watch a good performance than a perfect execution. I mean, as a second point, could McPhee pull off Grin and Bare it?

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[–] Wink23 10 years ago

Wow, haven't been here in a while. Hi!

And at the end of the day, I'd much rather watch a good performance than a perfect execution.

That's so true, for me too. Hilty (in contrast to McPhee) draws you in to the music and the lyrics and you're enveloped in a story, you're connected. It's kind of like the way Johnny Depp vanishes and all you see is the character. You don't see "actor acting." (For anyone not agreeing about Depp, insert someone you consider good or great. Same thing.)

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[–] cjanewatch 11 years ago

I think Kat's strongest performance, especially for movement, is in "Public Relations." I'm curious about the order in which things were filmed. She wasn't my Marilyn preference, but to me, in that number her Marilyn really came together. Her Marilyn vocal was very good. Her facial expressions were really good too. It's almost like a different actress when I compare that performance to her "Never Met a Wolf" in season 1's finale.

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[–] smgfans 11 years ago

Maybe it was the direction? Public Relations was Tom's fantasy of a vibrant, dynamic and innocent take on Marilyn (something that caused conflict with him and Derek earlier on because he didn't see her for what she really was) and perhaps that's why Katharine had a lot of more of the playful Marilyn voice, excited manor and energetic bursts in her attitude. The sides of Marilyn that Katharine and Megan both did were never from that place of fun and technicolor idealism from Mariyln's perspective; it was mostly her singing about how she was never loved, would do anything to make it to the top, would forget her entire life as Norma Jean and was truly a lonely, sad, drug addicted woman. I guess what I'm trying to say is that Public Relations was just fun and Katharine probably just went into it with that head space and lived up to the "flirtatious Marilyn" that she has been remembered as and not the way they had represented her before hand. That said, Public Relations may be one of my favourite Smash performances.

Here's an idea: next time, instead of being late, just *beep* on my face-Emma Stone

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[–] cookiela2001 9 years ago

I think Kat's strongest performance, especially for movement, is in "Public Relations." I'm curious about the order in which things were filmed. She wasn't my Marilyn preference, but to me, in that number her Marilyn really came together.

Aside from the color, the dress she's wearing is a copy of a Monroe costume from Let's Make Love (1960)

I love how they wove Monroe costumes (and even sets) through Season 1. It was very creative.
.

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[–] locusnola 9 years ago

The vocal for "Public Relations" was recorded hastily, in a broom closet; they tried to re-do it in studio, IIRC, but could not duplicate the quality of McPhee's original vocal, which was the best "Marilyn" she did, by miles.

I suspect this is related to (in my perception) McPhee's phenomenal ability as a live performer. She has magic live. Canned, not so much, the energy just drains out. I think it likely that the near-impromptu recording brought the energy.

And her dancing was good enough - though Marilyn was never a tapper.

Oh, right. So, she secretly trained a flock of sandflies.

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[–] 9 years ago

[deleted]

[–] locusnola 11 years ago

McPhee acknowledged her lack of strength as a dancer, and offered kudos to the choreographer for making her look good.

And where, in "Man's World," doe McPhee demonstrate "core strength?" The number does, indeed, demonstrate that she has a pretty form, and excellent stretch, but there is not a single move requiring "core strength."

"Core strength" is demonstrated by Hilty in "Let's Be Bad," when she is lifted straight up by her legs - she is firm and controlled, no wobbling. Compare with the precarious and definitely wobbly similar moment McPhee has in "Original." Core strength she does NOT have.

Oh, right. So, she secretly trained a flock of sandflies.

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[–] cjanewatch 11 years ago

I am sore just thinking of it.

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[–] smgfans 11 years ago

I'm talking about her physical form. McPhee has the body of a God. She is very thin and completely toned. To have that build, she must have core strength and stability.

"Core strength" is demonstrated by Hilty in "Let's Be Bad," when she is lifted straight up by her legs - she is firm and controlled, no wobbling.

You don't need to always best Megan against Katharine; and others vice versa. Megan does indeed have core stability and that number, along with The National Pastime, show the strength she has.

Compare with the precarious and definitely wobbly similar moment McPhee has in "Original."

Doesn't look wobbly to me? And she has lifts like that in Public Relations, Never Met a Wolf, Cut, Print...Moving On and she is always held and secure. Plus, in Original, the guys lifting her and actually walking with her in their hands. A completely still lift by Kat/Megan only happened before when the dancers were stationary for the lift.

Here's an idea: next time, instead of being late, just *beep* on my face-Emma Stone

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[–] locusnola 11 years ago

I'm talking about her physical form. McPhee has the body of a God. She is very thin and completely toned. To have that build, she must have core strength and stability. p

Not necessarily true, by any means. One can work out every day and have wonderfully toned muscles without actually developing real core strength. And in "Original," McPhee wobbled AS she was lifted. It's the slight break at the waist - demonstrating lack of core strength.

Oh, right. So, she secretly trained a flock of sandflies.

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[–] hannonle 9 years ago

She was in most of the rehearsal dance numbers, I'm not sure why this is news. She was in the ensemble, so when it switches to the fantasy setting (all dressed and staged like the actual play) she dances in that too. That's how it was for all the numbers.

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