MovieChat Forums > Smash (2012) Discussion > Okay, I'm on S01E03......thoughts....

Okay, I'm on S01E03......thoughts....


I'm REALLY liking this (though with a musical theater background, it's also cutting kind of close to the bone))...but one thing I don't like about it so far is the character of Ivy's interpretation of Marilyn Monroe onstage, which veers toward just obvious, hollow and grating.

I really don't think that Marilyn Monroe behaved in that hyper, boop-boop-de-doop way when she wasn't working. While arguably your general audience wouldn't know that, and if they plunked down money for tickets would expect to see Monroe gyrate and pant her way through a musical bio in a plunging neckline, from what I gather, she was actually almost mousy offscreen most of the time.

When Monroe was in company, she could have a quick, silvery sense of humor and was of course delightfully flirtatious...but I also think to a certain degree she was fed up with that whole mass marketed "Marilyn" mask, and that that act was a calculated persona she didn't necessarily take home with her. So I just find it very shallow watching this breathy, drag-show type of interpretation of Marilyn Monroe at the center of the show.

On the other hand, the character of Karen, while much more naturally tender and sensitive, keeps reminding me more of a young Lesley Ann Warren than Marilyn Monroe. She'd perhaps be better in a musical about Audrey Hepburn and the making of Funny Face than at essaying Marilyn Monroe. Her body type isn't exactly Marilyn-esque....though if the chips were down and I were casting the part onstage for this imaginary musical, I'd probably gamble that some donuts and good padding could edge Karen in the right direction. She'd just offer a more unique interpretation.

In closing, M'Lords, I love the musical numbers, the cast is fantastic, and I'm very very interested in where the whole thing's going. The character of Ivy just gets on my nerves. Or....and this is kind of silly and pretentious to say....but in some sad way, she offends my personal assumption of what Monroe was really like : (

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ETA: I'm the dork who doesn't read post titles... "National Passtime" is SUPPOSED to be performance, it's overtly "Marilyn In Character." At this point you've seen Mr. and Mrs. Smith and Never Give All the Heart, both of which have depth, as well as Ivy's scene-read. If you're basing assumptions off what Derek Says about the actresses, be very careful, because basically everything Derek says about Marilyn isn't true, just read a biography. Derek is instead wracked by an urge to craft a Marilyn as victim, destroying her agency and propping the same old facade.

A lot of the things he says are just stupid in terms of the theatre, as well.
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I don't know where you're at and thus what you're referring to. The only real scene work in season 1 is Ivy's initial audition (which wasn't boop boop). Most of the high energy songs are intended to be "Marilyn performing." Let's Be Bad is explicitly Marilyn forcing herself to perform on a movie set, Never Met A Wolf is a USO performance.

The more personal songs being on the order of Mr. and Mrs. Smith and Second Hand White Baby Grand, which I don't think were hyper? They're quiet, sincere, introspective, a useful contrast to the public persona. Most of the quieter moments explicitly reference Marilyn's self-awareness of her "two selves," and I defy you to actually point to where Ivy fails to hit those marks.

Weirdly, this show inspired me to learn more about Marilyn Monroe. I read a couple of giant biographies, and learned this: the song lyrics are fairly on point, but pretty much NOTHING the show says about Marilyn was true. Actually, the character of Ivy Lynn is pretty much Marilyn Monroe, and 99% of the time people say Ivy Lynn bothers them - it's the same exact rationale people were using to say they hated Marilyn Monroe back in the day.

Assume away, but be careful because this show did Marilyn more damage than good, on the whole.

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If you had only seen through Season 1 Episode 3, then, in addition to "National Pastime," you heard Ivy's snippet of "Never Give All the Heart," which really can't be classed as "hyper" or "boop."

I think you have also heard some of "History is Made at Night?" Humorous, flirtatious, no? Not brassy.

As twee notes, Ivy's acting in the call-back, which so moves Derek, is the farthest thing from brassy hyper boop.

Also, the only "Bombshell" number you have heard from McPhee is "20th Century Fox Mambo," did you not have an issue, with a musical theatre background, with her body language at the point where she sings "I can do it clothed or undressed?" Her hands move stiffly away from her body, her head turns to the side - it's negating of the line, disdainful of it, and that's not what is needed for the number.

I stopped musicals after childhood, but my theatre work continued for decades. McPhee is pretty awful, lovely face and voice or not. Her phrasing is also very poor, though "Mambo" is so syncopated it provides some cover, and, while it is a serious problem with character singing - i.e., acting while - it is much less an issue with the pop songs McPhee is accustomed to.

Such a pity they didn't cast Laura Osnes instead of McPhee. The show would probably be working on its 5th season.

Oh, right. So, she secretly trained a flock of sandflies.

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Oh my! Thanks for your replies : ) A lot for me to respond to, now!

But as a starter, I just added (then deleted) this from another thread, where it was posted << Monroe was never a tapper >>


Monroe was never a BELTER, either.

I still find Hilty's overall interpretation of Monroe to be too brash, while McPhee brings across the icon's gentle quality better.

However, now having watched all of Season 1, I see that the show needed to contrast the softer quality of Karen's Monroe with the louder quality of Ivy's, just to add variety and make the two characters more distinct onstage and off.

It's still kind of jarring to watch McPhee's Monroe be....fairly flatchested.

But, you know, I can also understand how the actress didn't want to veer too far from her own physical image through so much of the show. And having Karen stay willowy, again, adds contrast against her more voluptuous rival.

So....okay.


As to McPhee's movements in 20th Century, Yes, I agree that that particular moment could be played differently. But then, it's just an audition....not every single moment has to be nailed down and polished as to the Monroe characterization she's building toward. I think this actually shows some contrast between the two ingénues, as well: Ivy hits her Monroe interpretation HARD and RIGHT AWAY. The less experienced Karen has to feel her way there over the course of the rehearsal process.

I do see what you're both saying about the public vs. private Monroe. I hadn't thought of that aspect as to pitching a performance.

It's odd, because this topic has made me think about what made Monroe so special, and what one would WANT to emphasize in playing her, or how one would describe her quality to someone whose never seen her work. And what made her unique and striking is kind of intangible! (I'm not talking about her stunning looks here, which were of course obvious.)

Basically, I think what's always struck me is 1.) Monroe's physical grace (which is very feminine and womanly), and 2.) her sort of childlike tenderness, a kind of sense of wonderment...of almost seeing something for the first time and finding delight in it. All in all (and a few moments here and there aside), Monroe was pretty much 101% non-threatening. (Of course, she must have been more steely in her personal life to survive in Hollywood. But most people don't associate that sort of strength or resolve with her image.)

I'll try to write more after I reread your responses, but I do just tend to veer more toward Karen's interpretation of Monroe vs. Ivy's.

And to clarify, I have read a lot about Monroe and seen most of her films. She was one of my mom's favorite actresses, and growing up, there were books about her around our house. I've always had a fondness for her....though also a certain impatience. I mean, really....it seems she was quite a piece of WORK to deal and work with. (Not surprisingly, in that -- as Julia finally points out -- Monroe was a frightened and narcissistic addict/alcoholic!)

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Ivy is able to hit her characterization because she's done her homework. We see her reading huge biographies, she discusses Marilyn knowledgeably with Tom and Derek, she tells the latter she's seen every film.

Karen gropes because she has not. She has to be dragged to watch a clip.

This is, in fact, exactly what happened off-set in "Smash." Megan Hilty read and watched everything, including all interviews she could find. Discusses Monroe's intelligence, strength, demonstrated by her ability to overcome (so far as she did) her horrible, abusive childhood, to create herself as a star.

McPhee watched a few Youtube clips, and is on record saying she tried to convey "sweetness," and thought that would be enough.

Having a background in theatre, you will certainly know that one does not play "sweetness." One plays actions, motivating internal specifics. Not an aspect of effect.

Marilyn Monroe is a fascinating character. Multi-faceted, strong and weak, intelligent and foolish, triumphant and tragic. And, yes, a hot mess in later years. But not simple. McPhee's Marilyn has one side; Hilty's many. "Secondhand White Baby Grand" is surely a "softer" number, delivered, as Derek notes, gloriously.

I think that for some people, McPhee/Karen sort of evokes some quality of the Monroe icon. Hilty/Ivy is acting a multidimensional human being. Guess which this actress likes better.

Have you got into Season 2 far enough to hear Hilty's "Don't Forget Me?" Go to Youtube, play Hilty's, then play McPhee's. McPhee sounds as if she learned the words phonetically by comparison - there is no specificity, no real meaning - in short, no acting. And it really isn't Marilyn-ish at all - look at Hilty's gestures - very Marilyn.

ETA: Also during "Don't Forget Me" and "Wolf," McPhee shows that she hasn't appropriate breath control for Broadway-style singing.

Oh, right. So, she secretly trained a flock of sandflies.

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Interesting analysis of Monroe and Norman Mailer's 1973 book Marilyn, by Pauline Kael, the foremost film critic of her time : )



It's the glossiest of glossy books--the sexy waif-goddess spread out in over 100 photographs by two dozen photographers plus the Mailer text and all on shiny coated paper. It's a rich and creamy book, an offensive physical object, perhaps even a little sordid. On the jacket, her moist lips parted in a color photograph by Bert Stern taken just before her death in 1962. Marilyn Monroe has that blurry, slugged look of her later years: fleshy but pasty. A sacrificial woman--"Marilyn" to put beside "Zelda." This glassy-eyed goddess is not the funny bunny the public wanted, it's Lolita become Medusa. The book was "produced" by the same Lawrence Schiller who packaged the 1962 Hedda Hopper story congratulating 20th Century-Fox for firing Monroe from her last picture; now there are new ways to take her. The cover-girl face on "Marilyn" is disintegrating; and the astuteness of the entrepreneurs in exploiting even her disintegration, using it as a Pop icon, gets to one. Who knows what to think about Marilyn Monroe or about those who turn her sickness to metaphor? I wish they'd let her die.

In his opening, Mailer describes Marilyn Monroe as "one of the last of cinema's aristocrats" and recalls that the sixties, which "began with Hemingway as the monarch of American arts, ended with Andy Warhol as its regent." Surely he's got it all wrong? He can't even believe it; it's just a conceit. Hemingway wasn't the monarch of American arts but our official literary celebrity--our big writer--and by the end of the sixties, after "An American Dream" and "Cannibals and Christians" and "The Armies of the Night" and "Miami and the Siege of Chicago," the title had passed to Mailer. And Marilyn Monroe wasn't a cinema aristocrat (whatever nostalgia reverie of the "old stars" is implied); a good case could be made for her as the first of the Warhol superstars (funky caricatures of sexpot glamour, impersonators of stars) Jean Harlow with that voice of tin may have beat her to it, but it was Monroe who used her lack of an actress's skills to amuse the public. She had the wit or crassness or desperation to turn cheesecake into acting--and vice versa; she did what others had the "good taste" not to do, like Mailer, who puts in what other writers have been educated to leave out. She would bat her Bambi eyelashes, lick her messy suggestive open mouth, wiggle that pert and tempting bottom, and use her hushed voice to caress us with dizzying innuendos. Her extravagantly ripe body bulging and spilling out of her clothes, she threw herself at us with the off-color innocence of a baby whore. She wasn't the girl men dreamed of or wanted to know but the girl they wanted to go to bed with. She was Betty Grable without the coy modesty, the starlet in flagrante delicto forever because that's where everybody thought she belonged.

Her mixture of wide-eyed wonder and cuddly drugged sexiness seemed to get to just about every male; she turned on even homosexual men. And women couldn't take her seriously enough to be indignant; she was funny and impulsive in a way that made people feel protective. She was a little knocked out; her face looked as if, when nobody was paying attention to her, it would go utterly slack--as if she died between wolf calls.

She seemed to have become a camp siren out of confusion and ineptitude; her comedy was self-satire, and apologetic- -conscious parody that had begun unconsciously. She was not the first sex goddess with a trace of somnambulism; Garbo was often a little out-of-it, Dietrich was numb most of the time, and Hedy Lamarr was fairly zonked. But they were exotic and had accents, so maybe audiences didn't wonder why they were in a daze; Monroe's slow reaction time made her seem daffy, and she tricked it up into a comedy style. The mystique of Monroe--which accounts for the book "Marilyn"--is that she became spiritual as she fell apart. But as an actress she had no way of expressing what was deeper in her except in moodiness and weakness. When she was "sensitive" she was drab.

Norman Mailer inflates her career to cosmic proportions. She becomes "a proud, inviolate artist," and he suggests that "one might literally have to invent the idea of a soul in order to approach her." He pumps so much wind into his subject that the reader may suspect that he's trying to make Marilyn Monroe worthy of him, a subject to compare with the Pentagon and the moon. Laying his career calibrations before us, he speculates that "a great biography might be constructed some day" upon the foundation of Fred Lawrence Guiles's "Norma Jean" and proceeds to think upon himself as the candidate for the job: "By the logic of transcendence, it was exactly in the secret scheme of things that a man should be able to write about a beautiful woman, or a woman to write about a great novelist--that would be transcendence, indeed!" Has he somehow forgotten that even on the sternest reckings the "great" novelists include Jane Austen and George Eliot?

But no he decides that he cannot give the years needed for the task; he will write, instead, a "novel biography." "Set a thief to catch a thief and put an artist on an artist," he hums, and seeing the work already in terms to give Capote shivers, he describes it as "a species of novel ready to play by the rules of biography." The man is intolerable; he works out of the flourishes of the feat he's going to bring off before allowing his heroine to be born. After all this capework and the strain of the expanding chest on the buttons of his vest, the reader has every right to expect this blowhard to take a belly flop, and every reason to want him to. But though it's easy--in fact, natural--to speak of Mailer as crazy (and only half in admiration) nobody says dumb. "Marilyn" is a rip-off all right but a rip- off with genius.


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Up to now we've had mostly contradictory views of Monroe. Those who have taken a hard line on her (most recently Walter Bernstein in the July Esquire) never accounted for the childlike tenderness, and those who have seen her as shy and loving (like the Strasbergs or Diana Trilling or Norman Rosten) didn't account for the shrill sluttiness. Arthur Miller had split her into "The Misfits" and the scandalous "After the Fall," and since each was only a side of her, neither was believable. With his fox's ingenuity, Mailer puts her together and shows how she might have been torn apart, from the inside of her inheritance and her childhood, by the outside pressures of the movie business. But it's all conjecture and sometimes pretty wild conjecture; he's a long way from readiness "to play by the rules of biography" since his principal technique--how could the project interest him otherwise?--is to jump inside everyone's head and read thoughts.

He acknowledges his dependence for the putative facts on the standard biographies--principally Guiles's "Norma Jean," and also Maurice Zolotow's "Marilyn Monroe"--but deciding to interpret the data researched and already presented by others is a whopping putdown of them; their work thus becomes grist for his literary-star mill. Some of his milling is not so stellar. He quotes trashy passages (with a half-smile) and uses them for their same trashy charge. And his psychoanalytic detective work is fairly mawkish; we don't need Norman Mailer to tell us about Marilyn Monroe's search for parent figures--even fan magazines have become adept at this two-bit stuff about her claiming to her schoolmates that Clark Gable was her father and then winding up in Gable's arms in "The Misfits."

Mailer explains her insomnia and her supposed attraction to death by her own account of someone's attempt to suffocate her when she was 13 months old. But since there's no evidence for her account (except hindwise, in her insomnia) and since she apparently didn't start telling the story until the mid-fifties, when she was embroidering that raped and abused Little Nell legend that Time sent out to the world in a cover story, isn't it possible that before building a house of cards on the murderous incident one should consider if it wasn't linked to her having played (in "Don't Bother to Knock" in 1952) a psychopathic babysitter who blandly attacks a little girl? (The faintly anesthetized vagueness of her babysitter prefigured the ethereal vacuity of the face in the last photos.)

When the author says that it was his "prejudice that a study of Marilyn's movies might offer more penetration into her early working years in film than a series of interviews. . . ." one may guess that his model is Freud's book on Leonardo da Vinci, which is also an ecstasy of hypothesis. But surprisingly, Mailer makes only perfunctory use of her movies. He can't be much interested: he doesn't even bother to discuss the tawdriness of "Niagara" (made in 1953, just before she won Hollywood over with "Gentlemen Prefer Blondes"), in which her amoral destructive tramp--carnal as hell--must surely have represented Hollywood's lowest estimate of her.

Nor is he very astute about her career possibilities: He accepts the pious view that she should have worked with Chaplin and he says, complaining of 20th Century-Fox's lack of comprehension of her film art, that she could "have done 'Nana,' 'The Brothers Karamazov,' 'Anna Christie' or 'Rain' to much profit, but they gave her 'Let's Make Love.'" Who would quarrel with his judgment of "Let's Make Love," but do the other titles represent his idea of what she should have done? (To her profit, he must mean, surely not the studio's.) Yes, probably she could have played a Grushenka (though not a Russian one), but does Mailer want to look at a Hollywood "Karamazov" or new versions of those other clumping war-horses? (Not a single one of those girls is American, and how could Monroe play anything else?)

Monroe might have "grown" as an actress but she would have died as a star. (Isn't the vision of the Reverend Davidson kneeling to her Sadie Thompson the purest camp?) The pity is that she didn't get more of the entertaining roles that were in her range; she hardly had the stability to play a mother or even a secretary and she was a shade too whorey for Daisy Miller or her descendants, but she was the heroine of every porny-spoof like "Candy" come to life, and she might have been right for "Sweet Charity" or for "Lord Love a Duck" or "Born Yesterday" or a remake of the Harlow comedy "Bombshell" or another "Red Dust." She might have had a triumph in "Breakfast at Tiffany's" and she probably could have toned down for Tennessee Williams' "Period of Adjustment" and maybe even "Bonnie and Clyde." Plain awful when she suffered, she was best at demi-whores who enjoyed the tease, and she was too obviously a product of the movie age to appear in a period picture.


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It isn't enough for Mailer that people enjoyed her; he cranks her up as great and an "angel of sex" and, yes, "Napoleonic was her capture of the attention of the world." Monroe the movie star with sexual clout overpowers Norman Mailer. But most of her late pictures (such as "The Prince and the Showgirl," "Let's Make Love" and "The Misfits") didn't capture the public. Audiences didn't want the nervous, soulful Monroe--never so dim as when she was being "luminous"; they wanted her to be a mock-dumb snuggly blonde and to have some snap. When Mailer writes about her "artist's intelligence" and "superb taste" and about the sort of work she did in "The Misfits" as "the fulfillment of her art," he just seems to be getting carried away by the importance of his subject. Back in 1962, he wrote that "she was bad in 'The Misfits,' she was finally too vague, and when emotion showed, it was unattractive and small," and he was right. It was already the Marilyn legend in that role--the baffled, vulnerable child-woman; she didn't have the double-edged defenselessness of her comedy hits, she looked unawakened yet sick--anguished.

But Mailer understands how Hollywood uses its starlets and how Marilyn Monroe the star might have reacted to that usage, and that is the key understanding that most commentators on her have lacked (though Clifford Odets's obit of her had it, also the story Ezra Goodman wrote for Time in 1956, which Time didn't print but which appears in his "The Fifty Year Decline and Fall of Hollywood"). And who but Norman Mailer could have provided the analysis (that starts on page 35, the real beginning of the book) of the effect on Monroe of the torpor of her 21 months in an orphanage and why it probably confirmed her into a liar and reinforced "everything in her character that was secretive"? And who else, writing about a Pop figure, would even have thought about the relation of narcissism to institutional care? His strength--when he gets rolling--isn't in Freudian guesses but in his fusing his knowledge of how people behave with his worst suspicions of where they really live.

His best stuff derives from his having been on the scene, or close enough to smell it out. When it comes to reporting the way American rituals and institutions operate, Mailer's low cunning is maybe the best tool anyone ever had. He grasps the psychological and sexual rewards the studio system offered executives. He can describe why Zanuck, who had Monroe under contract, didn't like her; how she became "a protagonist in the great American soap opera" when her nude calendar was "discovered"--i.e. leaked to the press by Jerry Walk to publicize "Clash by Night"; and what it may have meant to her to date DiMaggio, "an American king--her first. The others have been merely Hollywood kings." He's elegantly cogent on the Method and his paragraphs on Lee Strasberg as a critic of acting are a classic.

About half of "Marilyn" is great as only a great writer using his brains and feelers could make it. Just when you get fed up with his flab and slop, he'll come through with a runaway string of perceptions and you have to recognize that, though it's a bumpy ride, the book still goes like a streak. His writing is close to the pleasures of movies; his immediacy makes him more accessible to those brought up with the media than, say, Bellow. You read him with a heightened consciousness because his performance has zing. It's the star system in literature; you can feel him bucking for the big time, and when he starts flying it's so exhilarating you want to applaud. But it's a good-bad book. When Mailer tries to elevate his intuitions into theories, the result is usually verbiage. (His theory that men impart their substance and qualities into women along with their semen is a typical macho Mailerism; he sees it as a one-way process, of course. Has no woman slipped a little something onto his privates?) There are countless bits of literary diddling: "--she had been alive for twenty years but not yet named!--"; the exclamation points are like sprinkles, Mailer the soothsayer with his rheumy metaphysics and huckster's magick is a carny quack, and this Hollywood milieu seems to bring out his fondness for the slacker reaches of the occult--reincarnation and sob-sister omens. ("A bowl of tomato sauce dropped on her groom's white jacket the day of her first wedding.") We know his act already and those words (dread, existential, ontology, the imperatives) that he pours on like wella balsam to tone up the prose. And there's his familiar invocation of God, i.e. mystery. But it's less mysterious now because it has become a weapon: the club he holds over the villain of the book--respectable, agnostic Arthur Miller, a writer of Mailer's own generation (and closer than that) who won Marilyn Monroe. Set a thief to catch a thief, an artist on an artist, and one nice Jewish boy from Brooklyn on another.

It's not just a book about Monroe, it's Mailer's show. "Feedback has become the condition of our lives," he said in an interview in 1972. "It's the movies. We've passed the point in civilization where we can ever look at anything as an art work. There is always our knowledge of it and of the making of it." Whether true or false, this applies to Mailer, and he has made us more aware than we may want to be of his titles and campaigns, his aspiration to be more than a writer, to conquer the media and be monarch of American arts--a straight Jean Cocteau who'd meet anybody at high noon: Something has been withheld from Norman Mailer: his crown lacks a few jewels, a star. He has never triumphed in the theater, never been looked up to as a Jewish Lincoln, and never been married to a famous movie queen--a sex symbol. (He's also not a funny writer; to be funny you have to be totally unfettered, and he's too ambitious.) Mailer's waddle and crouch may look like a put-on, but he means it when he butts heads. "Marilyn" is his whammy to Arthur Miller.

In 1967, in an article written to promote the off-Broadway version of "The Deer Park," Mailer said of himself, "There were too many years when he dreamed of 'The Deer Park' on Broadway and the greatest first night of the decade, too many hours of rage when he declaimed to himself that his play was as good as 'Death of a Salesman,' or even, and here he gulped hard, 'A Streetcar Named Desire.'" The sly sonuvabitch coveted Miller's success and cut him down in the same sentence. ("The Deer Park" wasn't Mailer's "Salesman"; based on Mailer's own second marriage and dealing with integrity and the McCarthy period and sex and love, it was more like Mailer's "After the Fall.") In his warm-up in "Marilyn" Mailer points out that though he'd never met Marilyn Monroe, she had for a time lived with Miller in Connecticut "not five miles away from the younger author, who [was] not yet aware of what his final relation to Marilyn Monroe would be. . . . " It appears to be destiny's decree that he should take her over. Mailer isn't the protagonist of this book; Marilyn is. But Mailer and God are waiting in the wings.

How can we readers limit ourselves to the subject when he offers us this name-play: "it was fair to engraved coincidence that the letters in Marilyn Monroe" (if the 'a' were used twice and 'o' but once) would spell his own name leaving only the 'y' for excess, a trifling discrepancy, no more calculated to upset the heavens than the most minuscule diffraction of the red shift"? (What would happen to any other serious writer trying to foist his giddy acrostics on us?) He fails to record that both Miller and Mailer probably derive from M”hler. Siblings. He had said in "The Armies of the Night" that he dreaded winding up "the nice Jewish boy from Brooklyn," that that was the one personality he considered "absolutely insupportable," but it was clearly a love-hate game--or why dread it? Actually he's in no danger. He's cut off from respectability, like our country; the greatest American writer is a bum, and a bum who's starting not to mind it. The time to begin worrying is when both he and the U.S. start finding virtues in this condition; we could all wind up like drunks doing a music-hall turn.

He can't get Arthur Miller's long bones, but he's busy trying to take off his skin; he wouldn't do it to Robert Lowell. But Miller and Mailer try for the same things; he's catching Miller's hand in the gentile cookie jar. Mailer doesn't get into confessional self-analysis on Miller as he did with Lowell; he writes as if with lordly objectivity--but the reader can feel what's going on. He says Millers' possible fear of the marriage's failing, "a man who has lost confidence in his creative power sees ridicule as the broom that can sweep him to extinction" and then proceeds to make every kind of fool of him, attributing to him the impulses and motives that Mailer considers most contemptible. Ultimately what he's saying is that Miller wasn't smart enough to get any more out of Monroe than "After the Fall." With Mailer, if you're going to use, use big. The second half of the book is supremely cruel to Miller--and it infects and destroys one's pleasure in the good parts. The "novel biography" becomes Mailer's way to perform character assassination with the freedom of a novelist who has created fictional characters. He's so cold-blooded in imputing motives to others that he can say of Yves Montand, for example, that Marilyn Monroe was "his best ticket to notoriety." Is this how Mailer maneuvers--is Marilyn Monroe Norman Mailer's sure-fire subject after a few box- office flops? Is that why he shoots the works in his final orgies of gossipy conjecture and turns her death into another Chappaquiddick--safe in the knowledge no one is left to call him a liar?

He uses his gifts meanly this time--and that's not what we expect of Mailer, who is always billed as generous. This brilliant book gives off bad vibes--and vibes are what Mailer is supposed to be the master of. "Marilyn" is a feat all right: matchstick by matchstick, he's built a whole damned armada inside a bottle. (Surely he's getting ready to do "Norman"? Why leave it to someone who may care less?) But can we honor him for this book when it doesn't sit well on the stomach? It's a metaphysical cocktail-table book, and probably not many will be able to resist looking for the vicious digs and the wrap-up on the accumulated apocrypha of many years, many parties. To be king of the bums isn't really much. What are we actually getting out of "Marilyn"? Good as the best parts of it are, there's also malevolence that needs to be recognized. Is the great reporter's arrogance so limitless that he now feels free to report on matters to which he's never been exposed? Neither the world nor Marilyn Monroe's life should be seen in Norman Mailer's image.

Pauline Kael is a movie critic for The New Yorker and author, most recently, of "Deeper Into Movies."


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Thanks for this - I read it long ago, and have enjoyed a re-read. I read Kael's film reviews for many years (I am approaching late 50s). I very much enjoyed a later period in which I though her relationship with John Simon, also a film critic at that time, improved both of their work, which was, in each case, already of high quality.

Indeed, I read Mailer's book as well, about a year after it was published. I read Kael's critique later, but she captured a lot of things my teenaged self wasn't able to articulate, even to myself. There was something very wrong-flavored about the book, one felt Mailer's paen/pan of Monroe had a lot more to do with Mailer than with Marilyn. In which the trashing of Arthur Miller surely would be in keeping.

I think Mailer overestimates Monroe's acting, but Kael goes a bit far in the other direction. Some of Monroe's performances work for me.

I was a fan of classic films as a teenager, and read a great deal about them and some stars, including a fair bit about Monroe; I've read more, recently, due to "Smash."

A very complicated woman, with great appeal.

Oh, right. So, she secretly trained a flock of sandflies.

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Sorry I don't have more time to respond to your posts....but one thing I do find off, in retrospect, about Kael's book review is that she doesn't discuss the photos in any depth....and regardless of Mailer's text, that is -- I suspect -- how most people relate to that book. It's overflowing with gorgeous and emotionally revealing images!

I would argue that there has never been an actress who was as adept a photographer's model as Monroe. She gives herself over to posing wholeheartedly, and very imaginatively...with deep emotional undercurrent. There are beautiful pictures of Garbo, Taylor, the Hepburns....but compared to what Monroe does in her stills, they're almost all basically just sitting there and letting their bone structure do the work.

Mailer's text that I like better is Of Women and Their Elegance (1981) where he creates a fictitious diary for Monroe covering the New York section of her life. Some of that book is SO FUNNY! And a lot of it is very touching, if you can accept the concept.

Have you read it?


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There were some gorgeous photos, public and private. I do remember. I cannot speak for most people - if a book is principally words, written by an author of status, that's where I go first, personally. Both my parents wrote, I do now, a bit.

Monroe must certainly have been a gratifying model. Beautiful plasticity. And so very pretty - pretty to the point of beauty, which is rarely effective for me to the degree Monroe achieved. I don't know about "most adept," I am not a photographer, and therefore have no really informed basis for evaluation. I do not deny most of what you assert.

I did read, in my classic Hollywood years, one book, furnished lavishly with photos, by MGM's principal still photographer during the 1920s, 30s, and 40s. He was the wrong studio, and largely before Monroe's time. However, given the manner and terms in which he discussed the various rewards of photographing various stars (Garbo to Gardner to Lon Cheney to the three Barrymore siblings), I would hesitate to apply any "most" to any subject. It must, surely, depend greatly upon the individual photographer, and how he perceives and approaches his art. Just for starters.

Garbo, for instance, fascinated him - he could ask her for any expression, and there it was. He could photograph her by candlelight without makeup, and it would be gorgeous. As for "letting the bone structure" do the work, one could remind one's self that it was Rouben Mamoullian, director of "Queen Christina," who ordered Garbo to clear her thoughts, so that the audience could read what they wanted to. Which indicates that she had thoughts, which communicated themselves.

I've not read the other Mailer work you cite. Given my distaste for the one work, I am disinclined to believe the other would be much more than well-phrased and insightful usurpation and appropriation - artistic cannibalism, in effect. I would rather shield Monroe from even my own take on it, frankly.

Oh, right. So, she secretly trained a flock of sandflies.

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Have we scared you off? It has been quite a while still since you have offered anything but non-"Smash" posts, and none of even those in almost a week . . .

Oh, right. So, she secretly trained a flock of sandflies.

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Have we scared you off? It has been quite a while still since you have offered anything but non-"Smash" posts, and none of even those in almost a week . . .


Oh no, my pet. It is simply I have an overly-caffeinated, short attention span, and now am binge-watching all 3 seasons of another show, THE AMERICANS.

It's all about FBI and KGB secret agents during the Reagan Years! Lots of Blondie etc. on the soundtrack. And while I'm still TEAM KAREN for this show, I do suspect Ivy would make a better top secret operative. So, I'll give her that.

SEE:

http://youtu.be/G9CUOeJoISY

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I watched Season 1 of "The Americans;" I need to catch up.

Ivy would certainly make a better anything which required acting skills, since Karen manifestly has zilch in this department. (They can blow smoke all they want, but Katharine McPhee is so egregiously bad, so wooden, unless she is being a snooty, entitiled b!tch, that it seems to me impossible for any rational person with critical observation skills to believe in Karen for a single second).

Also better for anything requiring any commitment or competence generally (Karen is shown to be a lazy waitress, unwilling to prepare for the most important audition she has ever had, too convinced of her own all-conquering wonderfulness to even look up what a bar mitzvah is, and is too lazy, again, to prepare as understudy). Or requiring the acquiring and application of appropriate technique.

The show wants us to believe Karen poops chocolate bunnies and pees champagne, but what it really shows us is a beautiful, mellifluous-voiced mannequin, whose only animation comes from her sense of outrage when her specialness isn't the focus of everyone and everything in her reach.

Example - why on earth should Jessica "be trying to help" Karen? She has absolutely no obligation to do anything of the kind. She has answered Karen's questions (shortly, and obviously with impatience, but so what?). Her obligation is to her own career, professionally, and to her long-time friend, Ivy, personally.

Karen's entitlement here is maddening. Especially as it is she who has been unprofessional. In the extreme. And has refused all instruction (from her director, music director, choreographer) to "tone it down," while insisting, against the explicit orders of her superiors within the production that she must "play to the balcony."

She is, effectively, insisting that she has a right to upstage and distract the leading lady, who is trying to do her own job (Karen of course thinks Ivy a less-than slut - she'd have despised Marilyn Monroe).

Karen Cartwright would have been blacklisted for any of the better auditions, at a minimum, following her slamming out of her audition at the top of Episode 1.

Karen Cartwright, arriving for a "Marilyn" audition - a brunette beanpole, dressed like a ragamuffin and singing a pop song, would not have been permitted to finish her song, and no callback would have been forthcoming.

Karen Cartwright, having been gifted with a callback, would have taken herself out of the running but quick, being unable to learn her choreography without tons of handholding, and being a poor actress (any decent actor or actress knows you have to make SOME choice and run with it, "you're not giving me anything" would be kiss-of-death to that potential role).

Karen Cartwright, having lost the lead role to Ivy, would NEVER have been cast in the ensemble - it is not done, for the specific reason that it would be very likely to be worrisome and distracting to the person who has been cast.

Karen Cartwright, having been cast in the ensemble, would have been summarily fired on day one for her lack f professionalism and her refusal to take direction.

Check out the Vulture recaps, the TWoP recaps (they are still there), all the articles, "The Real Breakout Star of 'Smash,"" "Let Megan Hilty be Your Star," too many more to note.

Katharine McPhee was loathed by 99.9% of those with real theatre experience.

Everything about Karen, from the casting of McPhee to the preposterous writing, is a gob of spittle in the face of every actor with real talent and real commitment to the process of creating a character AND contributing to a production. Especially those who give up the profession, having seen one too many roles given to the undeserving McPhees of the world.

Oh, right. So, she secretly trained a flock of sandflies.

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Ok, I've been enjoying this dialogue, but now I can clearly say I am getting a Hopkins/Foster vibe here. But I like it. You guys need your own site.

As always, locusnola, I feel like I should pay to read your posts. In my head, I hear them read in my hard-ass German tenor vocal coach's voice.

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[deleted]

Belting and Tapping -

Granted that Marilyn wasn't a belter. However, can you give me any likely scenario in which a Broadway-bound musical would feature a leading female role completely devoid of belting? But a simple matter to use non-tap choreo.

It bears note that Hilty, while a champion belter, utilizes numerous techniques, and combinations of techniques, in her "Smash" singin. Belt, yes, non-belt chest tone, blend (chest+head tones), classical style ("Letter From Cecile"), and more. You can almost hear where, precisely, she is placing her voice in the mouth.

Excuse me, but 101% non-threatening?  You must be younger than I. Monroe's career, and very public private life came to the fore during a period in which Ingrid Bergman was refused permission to return to her U.S. home because she was having an affair with married director Roberto Rossellini. It was years and years before she was permitted entry (Bergman's marriage to Rossellini, and their several children helped).

Monroe was very popular with men. Far less so with women - there were protests against her films, the "Seven-Year Itch" incident was regarded by many as shockingly licentious.

She was seen by traditional "wife & mom" women as utterly threatening, sexually immoral, if not wholly amoral. Monroe did, after all, casting-couch her way to the top, though she might have made it on her own. She had public affairs with married men, including Arthur Miller. This did not go over well with the majority of women, even if they plunked down the price of admission.

In these ways, it is perhaps worth mentioning that, if Karen Cartwright bears no resemblance, Katharine McPhee does, a little. Her husband (have they divorced yet? I've no idea) was an older, married man, when he became her manager. And then her lover and, eventually, her husband. McPhee was also caught by photographers in an illicit relationship with "Smash" director Michael Morris, whose marriage with Mary McCormack had produced three little girls. Morris at the time was set to helm a series about a singer-songwriter. He lost both the job and his marriage (unless McCormack has relnented - she threw him out).

And Megan Hilty bears a little resemblance to Karen Cartwright - she was cast as stand-by for Galinda in "Wicked" right out of Carnegie Mellon, and has been playing principals ever since.

ETA: I should note that Hilty was playing principals by the age of 16 in regional theatre. She then was accepted to Carnegie Mellon's musical theatre program, and was one of the minority that made it through to graduation (this is true generally of every graduating class in that program - much smaller than the number who entered).


Oh, right. So, she secretly trained a flock of sandflies.

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"Ivy hits her Monroe interpretation HARD and RIGHT AWAY"

She his "A" interpretation, which she plays and works with, as noted in the scene audition. As Derek says to Karen's read "Give me anything" - as an actor you have to make some choice, some definite choice, and then it's a collaborative process to discover what the "right" choice is.

What we do see in canon is that Ivy is the one who is actively researching Marilyn, reading biographies and watching movies to gather all the material and understanding and insights she can, from which she can derive the character. At best Karen's approach is more intuitive, and while I guess either approach is fine, it's not to do with being "new" or not. Karen went to college and did theatre there, whether or not it was her major, and by the time Smash starts had been in New York (and getting roles off Broadway) for 2 years. So her process isn't about being new, it's her process. Which leads to a different point: Karen Doesn't Come Prepared. Which is never appropriate in Theatre, it wastes everyone's time and is disrespectful - ironically something Marilyn was often criticized on set for.

"1.) Monroe's physical grace (which is very feminine and womanly), and 2.) her sort of childlike tenderness, a kind of sense of wonderment..."

That's the general image, yes, but did you know she fought against her studio contract that locked her into typecast roles, and started her own production company? That she was in New York with someone, just hanging out, and said to them "Do you want to see something?" She then "transformed" herself into "Marilyn," and instantly the crowds started responding to her, "Marilyn" was a character she self-consciously created, a persona she wore like a cloak and knew it for what it was.

"I do just tend to veer more toward Karen's interpretation of Monroe vs. Ivy's. "

Perhaps you can finally answer something I've been wondering forever: What IS Karen's interpretation?

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Perhaps you can finally answer something I've been wondering forever: What IS Karen's interpretation?


Well, that is the $64K question, isn't it? I'd say McPhee/Karen really doesn't have one - there is, we are to assume, a miasmic, non-specific "Marilyn-ness" which trumps real acting ability and its diligent exercise, appropriate vocal technique and breath control, and preparedness and professionalism all to bits. And there's certainly nothing else there that I can find, no matter how I delve - there's no depth, nor layers. (Recall I spoke of Toni Collette's always wonderfully layered acting, even in a performance I don't think works, in "Emma").

Ivy is creating/interpreting a human woman with many facets: star, wife, lover, daughter, sex-symbol, student, dreamer, desperate, unhappy drug addict, etc. I am sure you've not forgotten Karen's chipper, cheerful death-scene - she doesn't even sound sleepy, let alone drug and alcohol-impaired.

If Karen is merely evocative of the icon, she is, as you note, evoking a made-up character, not the woman behind it.

Whereas, as you also note (and I did above), Ivy hits her preliminary characterization with as firm an underpinning of knowledge as to who she was, what she did and why - Norma Jean Baker, Marilyn Monroe, what her needs were, her fears, her ambitions, her dreams, as she could accumulate.

Karen has to be dragged to watch a single scene. And mocks Marilyn. As she does indirectly again by getting high-horse and disdainful of Ivy, wearing her curves (and heart) on her sleeve - like Norma Jean as well as Marilyn.

Just as the Iowa (e.g.) wives of 1953 tended to both disdain and fear Marilyn Monroe, who was perceived as pretty darned threatening.

I aim to misbehave.

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BTW - new Derek/Ivy chapter done this AM. This was a hard one to get started, once I did, though, it flowed. Love to know your thoughts.

Oh, right. So, she secretly trained a flock of sandflies.

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Edited to add: Sorry about the novel length post here. I'm afraid I just did a brain "dump" of everything I thought about the show.

I didn't post (wasn't a member) during the time Smash was on, so quick background: Grew up in musical/theater family; arts important; instrumentalist starting at age 11 (flute); started onstage work at 16; dance (ballet, jazz, mostly tap) from age 16 as well; been to Broadway shows, but not recently; seen too many to count touring shows; theater and music are avocations, not careers (more's the pity, I'm just not talented enough for that). So I post from that perspective.

What IS Karen's interpretation?
That's a great question. I don't think she really had one. I felt she was going through the motions with no emotional or other depth at all. It was as if she was thinking "go here, say this; now go here, let people dance around me; now go here, sing this song" like a robot. At least, that's how my family and I saw her "performance."

We were thrilled when Smash was announced. A show focusing on the creation, development, and production of a Broadway musical? Oh my, yes, we are in! And it started out looking like that was the idea. The scenes going from rough work on the music and lyrics for a musical number, seguing to performers testing it out, and finally transitioning to how it would look in the final production were brilliant. We even loved the traditional Broadway feel of the musical numbers. Several Shaiman and Wittman numbers were real earworms for me. I told my hubby that I would go see the fictional final production in a heartbeat and would leap at a chance to be in the ensemble (never mind that I'm too old at this point).

We were in Heaven during the first several episodes. Although, I did roll my eyes at about Episode 4 or 5, looked at my hubby, and said, "Oh please tell me they aren't going to go all 42nd Street on us." Of course, it ended up being worse than that. As it was apparently to be a vehicle to catapult Katharine McPhee to fame, they could not let Megan Hilty be as fantastic as she is. At this point, I think Spielberg expected to draw an AI level audience, but he should have known that if you advertise a show being about the creative process of a Broadway musical, you're going to draw in a theater audience. And that audience is going to be critical of the problems inherent with pushing forward someone who is not appropriate for the role created. I can sure see why Spielberg was against casting Megan Hilty as Ivy! She was not only too good for the part, she was going to outshine Katharine McPhee at nearly every turn.

Katharine McPhee is an okay pop singer, though her obvious lack of breath and vocal control, and constant nasal singing drive me nuts, but she does not have the discipline or the talent for Broadway. She does not have the acting chops to make her role convincing. That's what made episodes like "The Workshop" so frustrating. Somebody forgot to tell Megan Hilty that she was supposed to perform poorly that day. Or if she was trying to be lousy, she simply didn't succeed. When Derek started ragging on her and saying how bad she was, I was ready to scream at the TV, "Are you freaking kidding me? What planet are you on?" But of course, that was during the Derek having fantasies of Karen segments--He had to think Ivy was "bad" because he wanted Karen so much (literally and figuratively). Argh.

Those problems, I suspect, are what led to veering the second season so far off the rails. Even more "You have got to be kidding me" ideas, scenes, etc. Although we all know this is fictionalized, we still expect some reasonable representation of the world we know inside and out. Things like "Karen did theater in her home town and was a theater major in college." Really? We are then supposed to buy that she doesn't know how to take direction, doesn't know what "ensemble" involves, doesn't know to bring a pencil to a blocking rehearsal, doesn't know the freaking difference between upstage and downstage. Nope, sorry, that's just too far off the rails for enjoyment. The character was so incredibly unprofessional that it became infuriating. Perform at a Bar Mitzvah? Terrific, as long as I don't have to learn/know the music I'm supposed to sing and as long as it's okay for me to spend most of the time checking my freaking phone waiting for a call. Then later, the top level producer thinking about taking her on based on that performance? Surely, you jest.

Having multiple songwriters for that train wreck Hit List was a major mistake. And most of those songs were insipid pop numbers, no doubt a requirement because that is Katharine McPhee's wheel house. It was difficult to enjoy the shift to nearly everything being Hit List, when it took so much away from the original premise. As well, that shift meant constant and repetitive full length numbers with Karen et al and nearly nothing from Ivy and company. I'm quite certain that was also because Megan's performance in the first season had been so far and away more complex, more professional, and just flat out better than Katharine's. It's hard to convince the audience that actually showed up (that is, lots of theater people, my people) performer A is "a star" when performer B is so much better.

Certainly the AI crowd would be rooting for Karen because they were already fans. I had never heard of her before this and only knew Megan Hilty by name (hadn't heard her perform), so I had no bias one way or the other. (OTOH, a confession: I have not and will not watch AI because it says "Oh hey, no need to study and work hard at your craft; no problem having a tiny range with no real control, but the ability to mimic "belting" etc.; no worries because it's all smoke and mirrors and "makeovers." With my personal background, I (and many professionals from what I've read) find it insulting.)

From the beginning of the first episode, I "got" that we were supposed to root for Karen. I simply couldn't when Ivy was so much better at all of it. It was terribly disappointing to have Ivy sleep with Derek because, frankly, there would be no need. Then again, we were supposed to buy that it was the way for Ivy to convince him to cast her. Right.

I have to say that in addition to absolutely adoring Megan Hilty (not Ivy, who they really screwed with), it was Christian Borle who really blew me away. I'd heard the name, but again, had not seen him perform nor heard him sing. What an absolute delight and amazing talent. His reputation on Broadway is well deserved. Nice to see him becoming better known too.

I really wish the show had delivered what we hoped for based on how it was advertised and how it started.

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I love, and prefer Katharine's version of Marilyn. I think she showed the more intimate and vulnerable side of Marilyn. She also sang the *beep* out of the score imo, especially in Don't Forget Me. Saying that the show would be currently still running if she weren't on it is absolutley absurd.

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Saying that the show would be currently still running if she weren't on it is absolutley absurd.


Perhaps you have not read the unanimous, or next to, critical derision of McPhee's - I don't really know what to call it - it can't properly be called a characterization or performance - exhibition, perhaps.

From Vulture's Rachel Shukert, e.g., "My God, is there anything this woman can’t do? I mean, besides move her face or modulate her voice to indicate her feelings?"

But, McPhee's horrendous breath control, confused body language, and total lack of acting skills aside . . .

Where, precisely, and how, specifically, did you find McPhee conveying anything - anything at all - specific to any "side" of Marilyn Monroe? Please provide details of what she does in which scene to act any specific emotional moment of Monroe's within the show.

Standing about with a dead-eyed face, with your body language conveying that you have no idea what you are supposed to be doing, is not an acting choice.

Oh, right. So, she secretly trained a flock of sandflies.

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I just want to start off by saying that the opinions of the critics have zero influence on my opinion of Katharine McPhee's performance on this show; anyone can sit behind a computer screen and write a review.

Regarding her breath control, please give me specific songs where her breath control was horrendous because I have listened to her sing this score a lot and I do not understand where you are coming from. I actually think her control is quite good. Vocally, her and Hilty sang the score very differently; Hilty was more m.t. while Katharine added her pop sound to the role. Which in my opinion the pop sound that Katharine added is more Marilyn than how Megan sang it, though they both sang the *beep* out of that score.

Specifically, I found her renditions of "Never Give All the Heart" and most especially "Don't Forget Me" thrilling. The subtlety she brings to "Never Give All the Heart", in her voice and her acting, I thought was beautiful. Sometimes, actually most of the time, less is more. It is more believable to stand there, moving, only when you have a specific choice, than to move around and have no meaning behind those movements. I thought Katharine brought an innocence to Marilyn when she played her, especially when she was portraying Norma Jean, yet she still conveyed the ambition that Marilyn had throughout her career. Which I believe she really showed in "Let Me Be Your Star." The song that really wowed me was "Don't Forget Me" I cant even begin to tell you how many times I have re-watched her sing that song; saying her performance was thrilling is an understatement. Her performance of that song was heartbreaking, uplifting, empowering, and her vocals were absolutely amazing. It was obviously a very different performance than Megan's, which was more of a lament in my opinion(nothing wrong with that!)but Katharine's performance was more of a look back on the heartbreaks and beauty of her life.

All of that aside, I really do think Megan Hilty was phenomenal as Marilyn. She was spot on with her characterization of Marilyn and absolutely thrilling; I cannot wait for her to do this on Broadway if given the chance. But if I had to choose which one I would spend a ticket on to watch it would be McPhee; there is just something about her when she sings that pulls me in.

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It is true that "anyone" can write a review. It is also true, however, that the process of habitually writing reviews, of itself, results in sensitized viewing, often a good bit beyond what the average viewer has.

"Don't Forget Me" is a particularly illustrative example of McPhee's abysmal breath control, "I Never Met a Wolf . . ." even worse. Have you had any musical training? I have - and it can train the ear, as well as the voice. In addition, you note that Hilty sings in a more "m.t.," which I suppose is a cutesy for "musical theatre," style. So she does. It means acting. McPhee phrases most of her "Bombshell" numbers - or rather, doesn't phrase them, she utters them as if she learned the words phonetically. Especially "Don't Forget Me."

I've played both versions of that song, or sent links, to just about everyone from my NYC theatre days (regional, mostly after age 30 or so); they all cringe at McPhee and admire Hilty greatly. McPhee just totally underwhelms (to put it in the mildest, kindest possible terms - most of us loathe her) 99.99999% of those with any theatre background at all. Because we know what we are looking at.

Then, there is the matter of her sloppy pronunciation - "Aw, buh they diddin buy me when they baughed my name," and so forth. "Whycan' we give luhhuurve, give luhhuurve, give luhhuurve?" Dear heaven, she's ghastly.

Less is more, in acting, when selecting the best weapon from a well-stocked arsenal. Less is not more, when a broken pea-shooter is all you've got to work with.

No meaning in the movements - that's McPhee to a "T." She stands, one foot turned aside, one foot pointed in the right direction - this is a no-no - it means ambivalence, and she stands that way when she's supposed to be assertive and positive on a subject. Her eyes go sideways and to the right, indicating she's making things up, when we are supposed to believe her. She simply does not have the language, the physical vocabulary, of acting.

And that is what I wanted from you when I asked for "specifics." Real specifics. You say it is fine not to move unless you are making a specific choice, and you are right. So, what clear, specifc, unambiguous choice, did MePhee make as Marilyn, and where? You ain't got 'em - because she doesn't have any such moment as Marilyn.

McPhee does bring more conviction when Karen is being an entitled snot. Nowhere else. Which may be telling . . .

Oh, right. So, she secretly trained a flock of sandflies.

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She'd just offer a more unique interpretation.


I don't know that "unique" interpretation is something a director would be looking for when casting someone to play a real person. Obviously, it's never good to try to mimic/imitate exactly, except of course in things like shots from a movie or filmed show when you'd want to be as spot-on as possible. Still, in the personal side of the story, you want to give a realistic portrayal, not a caricature, but also not something you infuse with your own personality. That's done by reading and researching everything possible about the person you would be playing. Ivy has done that; Karen not only has not, but is actively uninterested in doing the work.

I think you are absolutely wrong when you say that Ivy as Marilyn is "breathy drag show" and shallow, but also keep in mind that she is performing as directed. When you've seen more episodes and see some of the subtle and emotionally moving work Megan does as Ivy (and some of her "Marilyn" scenes as well), I think you might change your mind. See what you think after "Secondhand White Baby Grand" and "They Just Keep Moving the Line."

A word of warning: Some of the "theater" things they present as standard practices will drive you, as a theater person, crazy.

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