MovieChat Forums > Rudderless (2015) Discussion > And there was so much to like...

And there was so much to like...

posted 10 years ago by schmadie
11 replies | jump to latest

SPOILERS AHEAD! SPOILERS AHEAD! SPOILERS AHEAD! SPOILERS AHEAD! SPOILERS AHEAD!

A lovely movie.

Well, for the most part.

Great acting. Great scenes. Great music.

But there were two aspects that prevented me from really loving it.

The first was the whole 'shooter' thing. There was no backstory provided (unless I was asleep), making the entire 'he's a brilliant artist but he couldn't take living anymore' actually insulting.

The second was Quentin's circumstances. He lived by himself? Supported himself on a doughnut-maker's salary? Had money to help his mom out with? What did I miss, here?

Both of these are examples of lazy storytelling. I don't demand that everything fit together perfectly in a movie plot-wise, but I do expect some respect to be paid to intelligent filmgoers.

So for me, it ended up about 80% of what it could have been.

[–] thekindofbroken 10 years ago

While I agree that it would have been nice to know more about Quentin, I don't think knowing more about Josh was necessary. The film really isn't about Josh. His actions and his music are the inciting incident for Sam's journey, but Josh's backstory and reasons aren't really needed to tell Sam's story. In fact, leaving the audience in a similar place to Sam (who clearly doesn't understand his son's actions and didn't see it coming) makes sense. I think giving us all this insight to Josh (which Sam obviously didn't have) would take away from the issues that Sam goes through, not being able to reconcile his son with the person who did these things.

[–] doggie_rodriguez 10 years ago

I agree about the shooter thing, which led to the girlfriend "seeking revenge" by exposing Sam, (which I also disliked immensely!) Could have just been a beautiful story about a dad recognizing his son's talent too late, but wanting to get his son's voice heard.

We don't know how much money Quentin made. We also don't know if the house was paid for. He said he was a "Caretaker". That house could have been his grandmother's or something (maybe she leaves it to his mom or him in her will or something, we just don't know). I wouldn't consider that "lazy story telling", I would just say they left out something that was irrelevant to the story.

[–] DeepCinema 10 years ago

I agree with the O.P. that Quentin's home circumstances seemed off, and we shouldn't have to put so much guess work into the particulars of a secondary character's circumstances. Why wasn't his Mom living there, for example? Too much info missing.

Same with the son's motivation. HUGE gap. HUGE. Granted, Sam as the Dad could have been bewildered and searching, but both at the home gathering after the funeral, and at the gravesite, there should have been much, much more distress evidenced, and desperate attempts to understand what went down at the school's tragedy.

Of course I GET that they wanted to save the shocking revelation re: the son as sniper for later in the movie, but even if that wasn't mentioned up front I find it insanely incredible that the mourners wouldn't have been a lot more caught up in the enormity of the loss.

[–] doggie_rodriguez 10 years ago

I thought the funeral scenes were fine. You don't know how many people there were relatives or just friends or people from church or whatever. So you really have no idea how an individual should be acting. I would assume that a relative would take it harder than a casual friend would. The parents and girlfriend seemed to take it pretty hard.

[–] d-speaksone 9 years ago

Well, I disagree. I LOVED the fact- they didn't go into detail about WHY his son did it. Because really, to this day- no one knows why the Columbine shooters did what they did.

There aren't answers. What you guys are calling lazy-storytelling, I call nuance and realism.

William H Macy really put himself on the map for me. Just blown away by this.

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Hear my new song from my band, Lo. https://belo.bandcamp.com/track/unimaginable-proximity

[–] Em0411 10 years ago

Caretakers usually get to live on the premises with a greatly reduced rent in exchange for their caretaking duties, so Quentin's circumstances made sense to me. His donut job covered the rest and he couldn't afford the green guitar he loved so much that he visited it in the music store on a regular basis. He was on his own due to troubled family relations (shown cleverly by the scene with his mom, I also thought she was a prostitute at first!). And also shown by the music shop owner telling Sam that what he was doing to help Quentin was great. So we knew Quentin had a troubled past. That's why Quentin is evasive with Sam about his living situation, saying it's complicated. People with troubled pasts are often evasive so I think they made parts of Quentin's past unknown for that reason. They showed him at first very nervous with girls and nervous before performing, throwing up to show this too. Another poster made the point that Quentin is really sympathetic with Sam being so drunk and helping him when they first meet because maybe he comes from an alcoholic background/family and I think that's very plausible and pretty insightful, I didn't catch that one. I would rather want to know more about characters than be told too much. I wanted to know more about Quentin and Josh but that was okay, I think leaving out those details was deliberately done.

When you get up in the morning, how do you decide what shade of black to wear? (Shallow Grave)

[–] ThatDoesntMatter 9 years ago

yes, the shooter thing was a) shocking (I really had the shock of my life there...but then it made sense why it had thrown Sam off course THAT much...), b) explained away with 'he was sick' and 'it wasn't our fault' --- it's the last thing I had the most struggle with. If your son was sick, then if you did not know about it (as it seemed) then there is at least a fault of omission. Yes, depressed people can hide it very well. But does depression come out of nowhere? I don't think so. Of all the cases known (the airplane pilot the latest...) there often were signs beforehand. Of course the crime is the shooter's, but I believe in a big influence of socialisation on the shaping of us all...

Nevermind, putiing that aside, for of course Sam was mostly innocent, the fact that he played the songs is okay, when he started sharing was, in retrospect, the point where he forgot he was an adult and the father of the shooter...so, while I disliked the girlfriend's role in its over-the-top morality guilt-trip, I saw the necessity of someone pointing that out to him...

Quentin's backstory was as much as Sam asked him about it, as another poster stated, Sam's insight into Josh's life was limited as well, and he is the focal character, and he is pretty messed up and too occupied with his own stuff...
For a while I thought did Quentin lose someone in the shooting, glad they did not go that way...

Very captivating, high quality film, great acting, had me totally involved, but, yes, in hindsight there are detracting points.

[–] hgnhouse 9 years ago

I don't know. I caught some foreshadowing so wasn't surprised by the late revelation, and I thought the story made sense. People were subdued at the funeral probably because they knew what we didn't -- the parents loved their son but couldn't make sense of what he'd done, and were in more shock than the usual griever. Plus, mental illness is so hard for a parent. Even parents who know and offer to help may be pushed aside. and ultimately the person suffering had to accept help.

[–] ThatDoesntMatter 9 years ago

Plus, mental illness is so hard for a parent. Even parents who know and offer to help may be pushed aside.

True, but I choose to live under the illusion (?) that an open. loving, accepting surrounding would either not let something serious develop, or at least not fester. But yes, the sick person has to accept help - or be institutionalised if it is clear that it is something serious. But in the case of the parents in the film, they let themselves off the hook a wee bit too easily imo...*shrug*, mainly seeing their own pain.
What I find most appalling is that this is supposed to be reminiscent of Harris/Klebold. This is taking it beyond the limits of artistic freedom for me, sorry...

[–] hgnhouse 9 years ago

Sorry you feel disappointed. I felt that the movie handled a heart wrenching subject in a way that allowed for hope. Liked "We Need to Talk about Kevin" too, and enjoyed it, but it left me feeling hopeless.

[–] int_53185 9 years ago

I though that the way they revealed that he was the mass murderer was brilliant. Iam a seasoned movie goer and not often do I say out loud "Oh my God!". I thought Selena was a little overboard, but otherwise a marvelous film.