MovieChat Forums > While We're Young (2015) Discussion > Moral of the story is screw everyone ove...

Moral of the story is screw everyone over and there are no consequences?

posted 10 years ago by Wet_Knee_Houston
20 replies | jump to latest

What exactly are we supposed to think at the end? Making documentary films (somehow tied up as "showbiz") is all about doing whatever the hell you want and using people? Not being a psychopath makes you naive and old fashioned? This film gave me the exact opposite of a catharsis. It left me angry. Even if that's not how I believe reality is, it's depressing that the director thinks it is, and he got enough people to agree with him to make a film out of it and spread that awful message.

[–] indyhu 10 years ago

Yeah, but you won't look at documentaries the same way anymore. I have a hard time watching any documentary these days as being a source of good information since most of them are now hard agenda pieces.

The movie did nothing to inform me of this, I already knew this. But the fact is many people think that everything they see in a doc is a true and honest discovery of fact.

[–] usernumber655321 10 years ago

Noah Baumbach thinks he is cutting through to the real truth by apologizing for sociopathic behavior, see? He doesn't realize that his film making has become completely derivative of other film makers (eh hem ... Woody ... ehh ... Allen) who actually present their audience with troubling moral problems, see? He actually does seem to be appealing to the transparent, pedantic nature of his target audience and critics, see? It seems to be paying his rent, see? The immorality of the film is parrellel to the immorality of the Noah ... I mean Jamie character, see? I don't know why I even gave this film a chance when I hated Frances Ha so much, see?

[–] Robbmonster 9 years ago

Your post reminded me of when Rob Schneider used to impersonate Edward G Robinson on SNL.

Never defend crap with 'It's just a movie'
http://www.youtube.com/user/BigGreenProds

[–] azurit 10 years ago

being immoral helps a lot in your career. its a personal decision. it can make you angry but thats just how the world is.

[–] usernumber655321 10 years ago

Yes, being immoral may well help you in your career. However, being immoral makes you a bad person.

"thats just how the world is"
Only because so many people share your lack of a conscience.

[–] azurit 10 years ago

your lack of a conscience

you know nothing about me or my conscience. be careful when posting and read my post probably again before you start voicing things you only assume as if they were facts.

[–] tgemberl 10 years ago

If you don't want people to jump to conclusions about you, it's probably a good idea to say a little more about your ideas.

"Extremism in the pursuit of moderation is no vice."

[–] NeedysBoy 10 years ago

Darby left Jamie...

 "Maybe it's another dimension. Or, you know, just really deep." --Needy

[–] Moucherot 10 years ago

I think the success of Jamie just shows, that you can actually get away with dishonesty and fraud. There is no ruling entity, that cares about a construct like "justice". Therefore Jamie doesn't get punished. The world can be unfair.

This moral is also very prevalent in Woody Allen's movies. (Think "Crimes and misdemeanors" or "Match Point")

[–] rubenm 10 years ago

I liked the fact that the film doesn't give clear answers. Not everything in life is clear-cut, there are often nuances and subtleties. I think what the director was trying to say is that Josh is extremely rigid in his values, while Jamie is extremely opportunistic. Neither is good, a bit of both is the best.

[–] filmfancy 9 years ago

I liked the fact that the film doesn't give clear answers. Not everything in life is clear-cut, there are often nuances and subtleties.

It seemed that the director was steering the film toward Jamie's point of view by having Josh's father-in-law seemingly side with him. Mr. Breitbart was overly critical toward Josh's way of doing things even though Josh was more honest than Jamie. It seemed out of character for Mr. Breitbart to side with Jamie. Breitbart was being honoured for his documentary work, which was based on an honest look at people and their situations.

Was Noah Baumbach just appealing to a younger generation raised on "reality" tv rather than paying homage to the older generation's way of making documentaries?

And all the pieces matter (The Wire)

[–] jrhpax 9 years ago

Regarding the original question: Movies needed have a story with a moral. If they do, I probably wouldn't want to watch them. Movies aren't Aesop's Fables.

[–] bruce-129 9 years ago

I do think that one of the truisms of life is that the people who do things step on people.
When we abstract that into money is depersonalizes that because you never know where
the money came from of what it stands for. We used to say Capitalism allows people to
vote with their dollars, but capitalism is not democracy and you really do not know what
you are voting for.

Are any movies really true? I doubt it. I think most documentaries, even the ones that try
to be true simply cannot because truth is so all encompassing. You have to settle for trying
to make people feel something, and what control do you have over that, AND, who would
go to see a movie if you thought someone else could in a sense program you with the
truth, as opposed to making you feel a certain way and decide for yourself what those
feelings mean?

[–] bruce-129 9 years ago

Me too, maybe it was supposed to virutally unite us impotent nice peolpe who don't like the way the world is, but can't do anything about it. The world kills off nice people and rewards the bad guys ... ie nice guys finish last. What are you going to do, if you do something, whatever is warranted will not be nice, and will not look good.

I was so angry watching this movie that I stopped it in the middle and came back to it the next day.

[–] pavionorso 9 years ago

hate to revive a virtually dead thread, but i was also pissed when i finished this film after expecting josh to avenge himself ever so heroically. then i read a bunch of critic reviews and i guess why i don't understand a lot of the film was because of how it wasn't teaching a lesson, it was more of a clash of gen x and gen y. beyond the obvious cultural differences between the two (ex. the scene that cuts between the two couples consumption of media), the age difference really shines through with values that each couple exudes.

i am totally considered a young person and i think people my age display the same attitudes as jamie. as young people, they feel that they can get away with a lot. there are lessons to be learned by those mistakes that bite us back in the end, and perhaps jamie gets bitten back after the movie is over, but what i mostly took away from that last scene was josh's simple remark, 'he's young!' as if he's finished trying to understand him.

[–] bruce-129 9 years ago

this happened in my generation, tv began catering to younger demographic
and societhy has fallen to hell with selfish clueless brats. i was never like
that, or at least tempered my selfishness with thoughtfulness.

[–] pavionorso 9 years ago

hm, i do think that the selfishness seen in Jamie stems from naïveté. he hasn't learned the degree of the consequences when he's selfish. for one, he lost Darby and that didn't seem to affect him in the first place. josh is completely fascinated by the "generous" and "live in the moment" life they lead, but it all seems to fall apart in the end, like Darby says they'll grow old like everyone else. Jamie isn't growing the way josh did once upon a time, as he's testing the waters of using dishonesty to his advantage, which would ultimately be his downfall.

[–] joakimoester 9 years ago

Just saw the movie, liked it a lot, and definitely dont see it that way.
In the beginning josh wants to be like jamie; hip, unorthodox, interesting and young, but in the end he realize jamie is just a "swindler" who uses people to get success, and josh also realize he dont want to be like that, that he´d rather have less success but be an honest person. He also realize that he has a good life despite his lack of youth and success.
So - as I saw it - the moral is: dont try to be someone else (especially if he's an *beep* but accept yourself as you are, and get the best out of it :-)