MovieChat Forums > Upstairs Downstairs (2011) Discussion > Opinions now it's finished?

Opinions now it's finished?

posted 13 years ago by badgerking10
54 replies | jump to latest

A good set of characters. (Though, as I've said elsewhere, Mr Amanjit's continued presence is a bit odd and Pamela is possibly a bit of a box-ticking character...) Decent acting and fab period detail. But, it could be a lot better... It would be unfair to say it's badly written. But, I think more thought needs to go into it... Things like Pritchard clearing off for days and being able to return without so much as a reprimand, Persie apparently being a known informant for the Nazis without anyone worrying about her proximity to Hallam, nylons available in the UK before the war, etc... Individually, they're minor things and most people would turn a blind eye. But, when you start to get a few such niggles in every episode, I think it does start to have an effect on your enjoyment and your opinion of the series... I have enjoyed veging in front of it on Sunday nights - despite its faults, I do find it undemandingly entertaining and Neil Jackson's a nice bit of eye-candy (a very watchable actor too, I should add). But, if they make another series - and I hope they do - it could be much better if they just put a bit more thought into the writing and planning before they actually start shooting.

[–] paudie 13 years ago

I agree with most of your points.
It is very watchable and I liked the slightly dark edge of the Lady Percy/Hallam story but there are plenty of faults.

You're an errand boy, sent by grocery clerks, to collect a bill

[–] 13 years ago

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[–] 13 years ago

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[–] Squeeth2 13 years ago

She was being English to annoy any foreigners who might be watching. She also wanted to show off the ridiculous hat she got with her uniform to compete with what's-her-name's Fire Brigade chip-bag.

Marlon, Claudia and Dimby the cats 1989-2005, 2007 and 2010.

[–] alfa-16 13 years ago

Exactly.

The stiff upper lip is being mustered and is about to save the world from nasty Adolf and his chums. Surely they are not going to can the series on the cusp of its finest hour?

[–] 13 years ago

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[–] randommovies2002 12 years ago

Is Fay Weldon still working? I wonder about Rosemary Anne Sisson, and Charlotte Bingham. They also wrote for the original UpDown.

[–] leezechka 12 years ago

That is what shock looks like in real life. With that much horror happening so quickly, it is actually pretty typical. Grief is not an immediate howling and crying, it is often freezing up and wanting to be distracted, as she was.

[–] honkycat97 12 years ago

I respectfully disagree with your label of "emotionless," here. I found the second season to be unrelentingly sad. Even Pritchard's darling little love affair had to go down in flames. These writers seemed bent and determined to disappoint us at every turn, by making things tragic. There was no comic relief. That, I suppose, died along with Lady Maud Holland. It is said that Eileen Atkins left the show when she saw what direction the writing was taking. Now, I see her point.

[–] janey187 13 years ago

I have thoroughly enjoyed this series and I'm hoping they make a third.

I will always be on the side of those who have nothing - F G Lorca

[–] TheEtiquette 13 years ago

The second season was much better than the first. The absence of Jean Marsh helped, I'm sure. Though I did miss Dame Eileen. Alex Kingston was good but her character was most unbelievable. Anne Reid stole the show effortlessly as the impeccable Mrs Thackeray. The script continues to be mediocre which is a shame since the cast and the design are top-notch.

It's the times, what can we do...

[–] Squeeth2 13 years ago

I found it dull, with occasional enlivenments by Quiggin, Mrs T (!?!) and the Princeling.

Marlon, Claudia and Dimby the cats 1989-2005, 2007 and 2010.

[–] Suki_Weeks 13 years ago

Dross. Hope the Beeb find better dramas to spend our money on.

[–] randommovies2002 12 years ago

Heh...I recently watched A Dance to the Music of Time on yt. Now I know who you're talking about, lol.

[–] randommovies2002 13 years ago

Alex Kingston was good but her character was most unbelievable

Really? I feel differently. She seemed Bloomsburyesque, to me.

[–] mobocracy (908) 3 years ago

Alex Kingston's character I think is very realistic and often a missing element in these upper class dramas. I often do wonder where the overeducated liberal aristocrats are in these dramas, even in the Edwardian period. But by the 1930s they should be kind of common type.

[–] dblackman70 13 years ago

Harry and Beryl were my favorite characters and storyline. Neil Jackson is one of the better actors in the series. I'll admit I missed Rose. I'm not a big fan of Alex Kingston. I thought the Hallam / Persie was dark, but, annoying and unnecessary. I did enjoy watching it every week and the characters weren't bad. They'll have to charge the writing up abit and maybe change the characters around abit, but, I really hope we get another series

[–] andriellerhillis 9 years ago

Rose should have gotten a lot more screen time than she did. Am I the only one that feels like they could have fleshed out the servants a lot more than they did?

It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it- Aristotle

[–] cmkrcwi 8 years ago

Unfortunately, Jean Marsh suffered a stroke and was unable to continue on with the show except for one brief scene near the end.

[–] !!!deleted!!! (67791493) 8 years ago

I had issue with the fella going for "fresh air" then staying out sleeping rough wh ended up on the same park bench as his employer? Eh? Then he tidies up to return just like that?

Other than that they tied it up well enough. I'd no idea Lady P was a spy but that worked well too even if it was a way to can her character, have the two major ones reunite. As well as keeping downstairs staff home. It ended as it ended but it appears it won't be anymore seasons, correct?

That said, it was LOVELY. These are always a feast for the eyes and ears.

GFW

[–] segara 13 years ago

More Duke of Kent, please! Blake Ritson's crying as he informs Hallam of the abdication in the first series is what hooked me in the first place. It would be a shame if we didn't get more of His Royal Campness, especially if it involves any revelations of shenanigans with Hallam in their school days.

[–] maksanheitin 13 years ago

Could not agree more! This series would be perfect if it focused more on the interesting characters, fe. the perfectly perfect Duke of Kent, now that they killed one of the interesting characters. But I really hope a third series is coming!

[–] segara 13 years ago

Oh, and Keeley Hawes needs a news hairstyle STAT. She's a gorgeous woman completely ruined by that ridiculous hair.

[–] Sibyla01 11 years ago

Still, she looks stunning compared to her hairstyle in Ambassadors! Is our cotemportally fashion style so dull?

[–] kitten-89 13 years ago

Mrs Thackery and the Duke of Kent were great, other than that, I felt the show was soulless and it certainly didn't make me care about any of the characters.

If it can flash the loo it's welcome but as the embodiment of heavenly grace I won't pick up poo

[–] 13 years ago

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[–] randommovies2002 13 years ago

IMO they ruined Hallam's character in series 2. I really liked him last series. I was moved by his affection for Pamela and his insistence on keeping Lotte in England. I especially appreciated his character in the scene when Persie calls Pamela a monster and Hallam says, "You're the real monster in the house, Persie" (or something along those lines). Having him start an affair with Persie in S2 totally ruined the character for me.

[–] LadyABC 12 years ago

I completely agree! The character of Hallam was deeply endeared to me during series 1 when he insisted on making a home for Lotte and then taking care of her schooling. And when he opened his arms to Pamela and seemed to feel his family could not be "complete" without her presence, I thought "Now, there's a real man!". But then the writers really just ruined him for me when they introduced the element of sexual tension between Hallam and Persie. What? Why??? It just seemed like unnecessary fluff and dramatic nonsense. I mean, Hallam seemed perfectly capable of seeing through Persie's conniving, scheming, calculating ways in the first series. Am I really expected to believe that just because he rescued her from some dire straits in Berlin, helped her through an unwanted pregnancy, and then began to have marital difficulties with his wife that he conveniently FORGOT what a viper Persie was? The whole matter of the affair between the two of them really put a bad taste in my mouth for Hallam but the straw that broke the camel's back for me was when he refused to help Spargo and Beryl in their efforts to marry and leave England. I felt like his judgement of Harry because he was opting not to stay in England and "do his bit" for his country was the final badge of bastardom Hallam needed to truly make me hate him. I just can't get on board the Hallam train anymore. By the end of episode 6 of series 2, I couldn't even look at him anymore with out an expression of disgust on my face.

[–] eppycalhoun 12 years ago

The character of Hallam was deeply endeared to me during series 1 .... But then the writers really just ruined him for me when they introduced the element of sexual tension between Hallam and Persie.

I think the show runners wanted to show a darker side of Hallam. Just like most of the titled Lord of the Manor "gentleman" of the day he's someone who likes to be in control, hates it when others start to disobey him - then lashes our at them to express their displeasures, and starts to misbehave w/other women when they're having strains/tensions with their spouses. I think it's a more accurate portrayal about how these titled "gentlemen" would've behaved in those days... An absolute patriarch to their families and a tyrant to their servants.

Hallam's portrayal in S1 is far more gentle, meek and understanding Lord compared, which is atypical to how most of his titled counterparts. S2 Hallam resembles them much better. And he's not the only series patriach who's made this transformation from a saint to a jerk in different seasons of a series. Just look at how DA's Lord Grantham was portrayed in S1 compared to his portrayal in S2 and S3. I'm sure if you go back to other shows with similar "Upstairs Downstairs" theme, you'll see the same thing.

[–] CakesAndAle 9 years ago

Hallam's portrayal in S1 is far more gentle, meek and understanding Lord compared, which is atypical to how most of his titled counterparts.

Which is why it is the better portrayal for a program calling itself Upstairs, Downstairs. Mr. Bellamy, later Lord Bellamy, was decidedly different from your description of the toffs.

I'm sure if you go back to other shows with similar "Upstairs Downstairs" theme, you'll see the same thing.

But not in the original UpDown.

[–] Scribblenaut 12 years ago

100% agreed. I also think they ruined Persie with that nonsense as well. Persie wasn't a conniving Jezebel with designs on her sister's husband. She was just a rebellious debutante eager to experience the world after being cooped up in an ancient castle for most of her life. Hallam and Agnes had a very warm and loving relationship in the first series. Even with war looming on the horizon, he never treated her poorly. In the second series he turns into some alpha male moron who doesn't open up to his wife and ignores prudent advice.

I'm not surprised that Atkins left the show because of creative differences. Lots of loose ends that aren't properly tied up and half baked plot lines that go nowhere. Why was Laura Haddock even on the show? She basically just stands around, looks pretty, and makes angry faces.

Oh well, her and especially Blake Ritson's talents are being used much better on Da Vinci's Demons, anyway.

[–] Camargue 12 years ago

Scribble: You said, "In the second series he turns into some alpha male moron who doesn't open up to his wife and ignores prudent advice. "

Did you miss the part where his mother explained that Agnes would NEVER participate in his life? The government was in crisis and he was working long hours and he NEEDED someone (read: wife) to "open up with" (who he could trust to keep his confidence) and SHE REFUSED. She was out "shopping for prams." And whenever he tried to talk to her, she SCOLDED him, or YELLED at him, or ROLLED HER EYES at him, and complained that "all she ever did was listen to his situations at work."

She shopped, and went to the beauty shop, and shopped, and went to tea, and shopped, all day and every day, yet REFUSED to give her husband even 45 minutes to "decompress" after his awful days. All she wanted was "cutesy hand-holding" when he needed a real wife. His mother reported that she and her husband has been "partners" in his work and warned him that Agnes would NEVER be a partner and she was right. Agnes wanted NO PART of his "work life" and resented lifting a finger. Even though HIS money took in her ungrateful sister, and rescued her from Berlin. And Hallam paid for ALL of Agnes' luxuries. She was a real stinker who should have been ashamed of her lazy ways (just like her sister) but was too self-centered to notice her selfish failings!

[–] Scribblenaut 12 years ago

Agnes was a socialite. She was raised to throw parties and hobnob with nobility. Spending his money was as much an occupation for her as earning that money was for him. Secondly, Persie was family. If Agnes was to put up with Hallam's overbearing mother and his domineering aunt, he should have to put up with a willful debutante.

[–] randommovies2002 12 years ago

Not to mention that "my wife doesn't understand me" is the oldest excuse in the book. It's so cliché. Heidi Thomas could have built on Agnes' lack of interest in his career (from s1) in a dozen other ways, any one of which would have been far more interesting than Hallam $crewing Persie.

I suspect that the destruction of Hallam is the reason why Eileen Atkins bailed for s2, and I have long believed that the reason s2 got so much soapier (e.g. the character assassination of Hallam) than s1 is due to the popularity of the first series of the extremely soapy competition on ITV (Downton Abbey).

[–] Scribblenaut 12 years ago

What's funny, is that Downton got incredibly soapy in their second series as well (don't even get me started on how they mangled poor Sybil's character) I haven't even watched the 3rd series because I hear it got worse.

I wonder if the writers just run out of ideas for compelling drama and just re-watch episodes of All My Children for inspiration.

[–] randommovies2002 12 years ago

IMO s1 of Downton Abbey was popular despite being very soapy, not because it was soapy. But somehow TPTB at UpDown and DA failed to understand that, hence both programs got soapier.

What worries me is ITV has used the same formula for subsequent projects and BBC has followed suit. Yikes.

I'm afraid the DA effect will negatively impact tv programming for years to come. It's even coming to NBC
http://www.deadline.com/tag/the-gilded-age/

[–] likelickety 13 years ago

Absolutely stunning TV. I was crying at the end of the second series, partly because I was so moved and partly because I was so happy that good TV is still being made.

[–] Prismark10 13 years ago

It looks like U/D has been cancelled. Although it did ok in the ratings for a BBC Sunday night serial, there was a bit of a drop off and because of changes in the storyline due to outside factors such as cast illness, I did think the series did not hold up well or was as interesting as the first one.

Its that man again!!

[–] Ilario1 12 years ago

I liked it. The real glaring problem for me was the lack of a strong romantic thread throughout the series. Where was the love? That's what keeps people watching. Weird. There was only one real love story with Beryl and the chauffer and Prichard's was too short.

"What happens to a dream deferred?"

[–] greenegg 12 years ago

Even if this wretched series does return for a third season, the Duke of Kent won't be around too long, since he became a war casualty in 1942.

Put puppy mills out of business: never buy dogs from pet shops!

[–] Tuppance76 12 years ago

The real glaring problem for me was the lack of a strong romantic thread throughout the series. That's what keeps people watching. Weird.

==========================================================================
The lack of, almost made me give up completely on this past season. Was Hallam's tryst with his sister-in-law, the Nazi mistress, suppose to fill the bill?

''I hate television. I hate it as much as peanuts. But I can't stop eating peanuts.''~Orson Welles

[–] Prismark10 12 years ago

The second series was not good and hence why it dived in the ratings. I think the BBC should had waited for the second series rather than get the lead writer to rush it.

Its that man again!!

[–] schappe1 12 years ago

The story-telling was much better, less rushed, and the characters better developed, although I agree that an affair between Hallam and Perce was a very bad idea. I was very much looking forward to a WWII series considering how great the WWI series was in the original. But then they canceled it and that was that

The past is a series of presents. The present is living history we are privileged to witness