MovieChat Forums > The Man in the High Castle (2015) Discussion > Why did they use a Chinese actor to play...

Why did they use a Chinese actor to play a Japanese general?


Seriously, did they think no one would be able to tell the difference?

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The actor who plays Kiido, the inspector is of Chinese, Japanese, Spanish and Portuguese ancestry. The actor who plays the trade minister is of Hawaian and Japanese background, and I'm sure the other East Asian actors are also of Asian tossed salad background.

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I looked up the actor's info. His name is Tzi Ma. Everything I found says he is Chinese. From his name, to his birthplace, linguistic skills, and acting roles. Nothing remotely Japanese. Every role I've seen him in is that of a Chinese man. Even IF he had some Japanese blood, he has a dominantly Chinese appearance.

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Tzi Ma? Indeed.

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It is a tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing .

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He's talking about the General. Tzi Ma is Chinese, probably most famous in Hollywood for Rush Hour.

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This is obsessive. Best actor who looks the part is enough. Diversity is great, what you're doing is treading into a very nasty place of racial purity that is kind of sick and twisted.

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Right- there is a flick on Netflix where people went insane over the race of folks they used to portray hip hop artist in the 70s/80s Bronx.

Half just want to show they are so smart they caught the error while others want to show how offended they are over trivial matters.

One day the country will truly worry about content of character and the race baiters and racist will be left in the cold while the rest of us just get along and take care of each other.

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No, it's not obsessive but it is a massive grey area.

What you're saying is that all East Asians look the same and they are all interchangeable. He does not look Japanese at all even though he is a great actor. There is a physical distinction.

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Death is the standard breach for a complex prize.

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physical differences exist but the phenotypes of people aren't exactly distinctly seperate, but more like a spectrum. While he doesn't appear likely to be an average Japanese person, it's not impossible either. Physical passing does happen.

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physical differences exist but the phenotypes of people aren't exactly distinctly seperate, but more like a spectrum. While he doesn't appear likely to be an average Japanese person, it's not impossible either. Physical passing does happen.

Yes -- while it's true that there can be specific ethnic differences between the look of a Chinese person and a Japanese person, but the same thing can be true for Europeans versus Multi-generational Americans.

An American whose family may have originated in, say, northern Europe but who has been in the U.S. for generations, interbreeding with other ethnic Europeans for say, for example, Southern Europe and elsewhere would look different than a person whose family has been in Northern Europe for generations...

...But that does not stop Hollywood from giving us a clearly British-looking Hugh Laurie and cast him in a role as an American (in House).



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Sorry but that's bs. De la Fuente is Filipino. A lot of Filipinos sadly like to flaunt their multiethnic background yet dna show they are more homogenous than the Japanese themselves.

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Why did they use Canadian actors to play Americans? Why did they use Americans to play Germans?

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"American" isn't a race, it's a citizenship. Any person of any background can play an American citizen. But it makes no sense when a person of one race is playing the role of another.

Nice try tho

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Chinese isnt a race either as people as different as Han and Uighurs are all still Chinese.

The point still stands. Why is it okay to have American and Canadian actors playing German and Japanese characters, but not to have a Chinese American actor play a Japense character?

I think theres a big difference between calling out whitewashing like we had with the Ancient One in Dr Strange or the character ScarJo plays in Ghost in the Shell and saying that actors of East Asian descent cant play someone from a country other than where their ancestors came from. In fact, that kind of stuff cuts against one of the reasons that whitewashing is bad: namely that it takes away job opportunites from actors of color.

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I didn't think I would have to state this but I guess I should have clarified that when I said "race" I meant "ethnicity". So in that case yes, Chinese is not a race. It is an ethnicity.

Canadian and American are not ethnic backgrounds. They are citizenships. There are not any indigenous people to Canada. There are Native American Indians, but that's not what you're talking about. You arguing about one national status acting as another. There is nothing wrong with that. People do it all the time (rick from TWD, etc.) Whether they do a good job pulling it off is entirely different.

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You know what he means when he said Canadian/American. He means white or Anglo Saxon or Normand or however you want to frame it... someone who looks like they're from the northern half of Europe.

I think what's most amusing is you honestly believe you can reliably tell the difference between someone from China and Japan just by looking at them. The ignorance is astounding. Astounding.

I'm not going to waste much more time but safe to say that there is variation within ethnic groups - large variation. Ethnic groups don't have 'genetic purity' because of thousands of years of mixing (due to conflict, war, invasion and migration).

You talk about Chinese as an ethnicity - I'm assuming you're referring to Han Chinese. Studies have been done and there is large, large variation in genetic makeup amongst the group itself. It proves that a lot of ethnicity is more a social construct than something you can visually identify with any reliability.

I'm laughing. Yes - if you see someone much more tanned - it might be safe to assume they're Vietnamese or Spanish and not Korean or Swedish. I'm not saying there are no differences (because some physical looks are more likely to appear in certain groups - like red/blonde hair) but this idea that "oh my god he looks nothing like a Japanese person, he looks soooo Chinese" is a valid claim anyone can make is laughable.

There is enough variation and overlap between ethnic groups in Asia (especially East/North-East Asia) just like there is in Europe (And many other places of the world) that anyone claiming they can identify people's ethnic groups just by looking at their faces is full of *beep*

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I'm more amazed that you can't tell Tzi Ma is blatantly Chinese, and are going at great lengths to say that it's impossible for anyone to tell the difference between Chinese and Japanese people. The ignorance is astounding. Astounding.

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Not impossible but you would be flat out lying if you say you can reliably distinguish just by looking at people. Of course if you look someone up online and find a name like that - then you can know. If you know fashion really well, you can probably tell the difference if they're just wearing their normal clothes, their normal hairstyle because different cities have different fashions.

That's a fact. You can throw a tantrum all you want - it's a fact. Facts are facts. It's like testing psychics - when you bring hundreds of faces and get people to categorize - even something as simple as 'ethnic' Chinese, Japanese and Korean - people can't do it.

There is so much overlap between ethnic groups within regions (like North-East Asia) that reliably distinguishing people and categorizing them in ethnic groups based on physical characteristics is a fools errand - that being said there are a lot of fools out there.



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I never said I could tell what any person's ethnicity is just by looking at them....I only spoke about the Chinese man who they want everyone to think is Japanese.

Some people you can tell, others you can't. Sure, of course I accept that. But because I've seen Tzi Ma many, many times before, I knew he wasn't Japanese. That is a fact.

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Who cares dude? It's obvious that the guy pulls it off and makes himself totally believable as a Japanese guy, that's enough to me. If it's not to you, you're kind of being a nazi about it.

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It's not laughable, you just haven't been exposed to it as much. You can tell the difference between someone that is ethnically Chinese, Korean or Japanese. I grew up in Hong Kong and it's ridiculously easy to tell the difference but I have friends who have moved here overseas and they can't tell the difference. On the flipside, many Asians (I'm going across not just East) also have trouble telling the difference between a White Australian, British or American person until they open their mouths and start talking.

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Death is the standard breach for a complex prize.

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wait you knew what was meant by American and using Canadians or Brits and you had to correct because that poster's point is solid and then when someone actually corrects your more factually incorrect point you act like everyone else is stupid because we didn't get you meant ethnicity.

You prove my point you don't care about his race or ethnicity you just wanted people to say OMG so smart you caught that WOW so smart.

Ok I gave it to you we all think you are a genius for pointing out.


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hawaiiroots
Canadian and American are not ethnic backgrounds. They are citizenships. There are not any indigenous people to Canada. There are Native American Indians, but that's not what you're talking about. You arguing about one national status acting as another. There is nothing wrong with that.
So then what exactly is wrong about casting a man of Chinese heritage as a Japanese character?

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The issue is your desire to determine other peoples ethnicity. Its intrinsicly racist to assert that Americans are not an ethnicity compare to British or German ethnicity, but Japanese and Chinese are. The actor playing the American Jew Frank Frink is a British Gentile, but no one bothers about that too much, or shouldnt.

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Because it was filmed in Canada and the United States.

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Pretty much. When they cross-cast like this, they bank on most people not knowing. Only people who could tell would be Chinese people. A Chinese native speaking English has a certain accent that is different than a Japanese native speaking English. So Chinese people would be able to spot it immediately. There are some good Japanese actors in Hollywood, like Ken Watanabe, but maybe it's all about timing and availability.

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Yeah you're absolutely right about the speech. The 'Japanese' general clearly has a Chinese accent. That only add to the annoyance.

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The funny thing is, it's the Chinese actors who usually get screwed over by Hollywood white-washing. Take for example the latest Rush Hour TV series, which has already been cancelled. Not a surprise. They use Jonathan Foo to play Jackie Chan's part. The dude is British and half white. They had him and another Asian actress have a speaking Cantonese scene, and the accents were HORRIBLE. Once again, Hollywood just banking on most people not knowing except Chinese people. Why they feel they do not need to achieve authenticity for the Chinese audience boggles my mind. You would think that would help their ratings. That scene was comical, it would be equivalent to having two people talking broken English with thick accent and passing it off as fluent English. No wonder it got cancelled. How are movie makers this stupid in 2016.

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I had no idea there was a rush hour series. But from what you said, I'm glad it got cancelled lol.

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Why did they use British actors (Rufus Sewell and Rupert Evans) to play Americans? You pick the actor from those available that you think will be the best for that role, that's why.

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It is possible for someone from Britain to be an American citizen. I've already talked about this.

Picking what's available to you? Yes because picking a Chinese man for the role of a Japanese general is definitely the best fit for the role. His role calls for nothing special let's be honest. And you're telling me they couldn't find a Japanese actor like Ken Watanabe to fill the role?

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It is possible for someone from Britain to be an American citizen. I've already talked about this.


As goes for Chinese and Japanese people. Lots of American citizens of that heritage. Including the guy who plays Kido, who's last name is de la Fuente and was born in New York.

You know, one of the most famous Japanese actors of all time (Toshiro Mifune) was born in China.

Long story short, WHOOOOOO CAAAAARREEES?

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It is possible for someone from Britain to be an American citizen. I've already talked about this.

same goes for japanese and chinese.

i find it racist that you can mix europeans and americans together and tell there is no difference yet its not okay when they do that with japanese and chinese people. its literally the same thing but one you choose to ignore and the other you don't. it seems the actors were fine with it otherwise they wouldn't play. anyway, they play a character in a fiction movie they don't make history.

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I do not believe that anyone can differentiate, with one hundred percent accuracy, a Chinese from a Japanese from a Korean, any more than anyone can differentiate, with one hundred percent accuracy, a Pole from an Irishman from an Italian.

There is variation within groups, is why.

Some Irish people really do have red hair and freckles, but so do some people from Spain.

Someone can look like a typical member of group X and not be from that group.

http://www.amazon.com/Save-Send-Delete-Danusha-Goska/dp/1846949866

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Why is this so important? are you an SJW by any chance? one of these people that support all the *beep* like non binary crazies and blm type movements?

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Lol that's really cute.

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so are you an SJW or not ?

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No

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Not no one...

Just 99% of the viewers which is good enough.

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Is she playing the role of a character whose ethnicity is clearly different from her own?

That's my point. What's yours?

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Chinese and Japanese people would beg to differ with that statement

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It's obviously too late for that now, but good job with the sarcasm.

"Make your own show." Haha that's funny. I bet you're one of those idiots that uses the line "lets see you do better" whenever they hear any sort of criticism.

Colin Kapernick is a sh!tty quarterback.
"Let's see you do better"

Mylie cyrus is a horrible singer.
"Lets see you do better"

Andrew Garfield was a terrible Peter Parker.
"Lets see you do better"

Tzi Ma is an atrocious pick for a Japanese general.
"Lets see you do better" or in your case "go make you own show."

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Please find something better to do with your time than moan about a Chinese actor playing a Japanese general, you have Mexican people playing spanish people and vice versa, and being spanish I take no offence to that and also I'm not pathetic and looking for attention online.

And did you not think for a moment that like the situation with John Smith, maybe he is originally Chinese but became trusted during the war and rose in the ranks? John Smith was an American soldier and is now the leader of the nazi region in the americas, it is a series based on alternate version of history after all...it's fictional characters in a fictional story...not a documentary

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Says the person going out of their way to answer a thread that obviously bothers him.

If your scenario with Onada being similar to Smith is actually stated in the show, then I will accept it.

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Ethnically, the Chinese and Japanese are different, but I think, of greater importance is their histories. Having a Chinese actor play a Japanese general would be like having an Israeli actor play a Palestinian. Because of the history between these two peoples, having one play the other is especially insensitive. In that context, it's nothing like a Canadian or a Brit playing an American.

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I agree.

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LOL If you really think that the Revolutionary War is in the slightest bit comparable to the conflicts between China and Japan, your knowledge of Asian history is limited.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Sino-Japanese_relations
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nanking_Massacre
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/01/07/opinion/why-china-and-japan-cant-get-along.html

China's economic prosperity hinges on Japan, so, even though tensions have been high in recent decades, a war hasn't been in their best interests. This hostility without all out war will most likely prevail going forward and will hopefully thaw in the decades to come. None of this overshadows the fact, though, that there's been and continues to be a tremendous amount of bad blood between these two countries.

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Having a Chinese actor play a Japanese general would be like having an Israeli actor play a Palestinian. Because of the history between these two peoples, having one play the other is especially insensitive.


That may be true, but Israeli actors are frequently used to play Muslim/Arab characters.

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For that matter, there have been many cases of Jewish actors playing "Aryan" Germans.

I've also seen people of British, Italian, Egyptian, and Siberian decent playing Germans quite well.

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That's an understandable point of view and has been a problem before. A good example is the Chinese reaction to the film Memoirs of a Geisha which is not only about Japanese culture (at least as imagined by the writers), but has Chinese and Chinese Americans playing Japanese roles.

But things like this are a personal decision. Some actors see an absolute distinction between themselves and the character they play, especially if they were trained in a style of acting other than "method".

He does a great job in the role and isn't the only person in the cast with a Chinese name. I'd like to see a character who is Chinese or any other Asian nationality besides Japanese.

They would add an interesting perspective to the whole thing. The same resistance organization exists in both parts of occupied America. Let's see it go international.

Imagine a coordinated attack on the Axis authorities in Shanghai, San Francisco, New York, and Paris at the same time (compensating for time zones; it's all happening simultaneously, but it would be the middle of the night in one place, afternoon in another, etc.).

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Having a Chinese actor play a Japanese general would be like having an Israeli actor play a Palestinian. Because of the history between these two peoples, having one play the other is especially insensitive. In that context, it's nothing like a Canadian or a Brit playing an American.

On the other hand, given the 'history' involved, one could also argue that having a Brit playing an American Nazi is also insensitive on the same grounds. It's a piece of fiction, when all's said and done - 'make believe'. It's not as if we're discussing a series that represents real life in our world.

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Brits have been playing Nazis practically since Nazis began. There's absolutely no insensitivity in a non German being cast as a Nazi villain. The Nazi's lost their right to be offended when they murdered a few million people.

And the 'fiction' argument is hogwash. When Alec Guinness donned brownface for Lawrence of Arabia, that was fiction. Breakfast at Tiffany's was 'make believe' as well, but that doesn't make Mickey Rooney's yellowface any less offensive. No, this isn't anywhere as extreme or as blatantly obvious as brown or yellowface, but it's still one ethnicity being cast as another, and it still needs to stop.

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Your examples are well over fifty years old. You simply do not get White actors playing characters of colour anymore and have not for many years.

It's neither practical or especially desirable to enforce ethnic purity in casting.

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You simply do not get White actors playing characters of colour anymore and have not for many years.


That's my point. We have evolved way past this garbage as people have become more aware of ethnic sensitivities. 50 years from now, they'll be shaking their heads over this, because, by then, society will have evolved. This is basically the cultural equivalent of not being able to locate China and Japan on a map. A large portion of the population most likely can't locate these countries geographically, but, in 50 years, they will. There are no more Angles and Saxons to come out of the mountains and wipe out civilization. Barring nuclear war, progress is inevitable. And part of that progress will be putting xenophobia and tunnel vision behind us.

And nothing about it will be complicated or impractical. We live in age where there are brilliant actors of every ethnicity imaginable. It wasn't the slightest bit difficult to stop casting actors in blackface- it won't be difficult to stop this. All it takes is an incredibly slight change in awareness. "Oh, we don't do that anymore." Done.

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