MovieChat Forums > Stoker (2013) Discussion > Hitchcock would approve

Hitchcock would approve


If Hitchcock was making movies today, he might have made this. I loved it and I don't normally watch Nicole Kidman movies !

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Definitely. A close friend of mine who has a classic movie blog and is recognized widely in that whole TCM world, is a Hitchcock fanatic - she did a whole month long series of articles on "Vertigo". I finally convinced her to check out "Stoker" - she absolutely loved it, and has been recommending it to others. She's really into classic films but she's also got an active, colorful imagination, along with a subversive sense of irony (things Hitchcock had in spades) so "Stoker" is on her all time favorites list. Of course, "Stoker" also has that whole "Shadow of A Doubt" connection, too. Park chan-Wook was originally inspired to become a director from his admiration of Hitchcock, but he has his own particular, and special vision.

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In no way is Stoker similar to Vertigo, though it does slightly mimic Shadow of a Doubt. Vertigo is the story of human folly, the tale of man who falls in love with a mirage, loses the mirage, meets the woman behind the mirage, and instead of accepting her for what she is, attempts to turn her back into the mirage that he fell in love with and as a result loses her for good. Stoker is simply the story of two psychopaths; one, a daughter, and the other, the lover of the daughter's father. The director might have crafted the tale to be that of a disturbed daughter who, precisely because she is disturbed, is able to save her mother's life while avenging the death of her father, but he decided to extend the film and use the final scene to confirm her psychopathy. Stoker is an interesting movie, but hardly the tale of longing and human weakness that is Vertigo.

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"...the lover of the daughter's father..." - gjosiban


Did you mean "...the brother of the daughter's father..."?

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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0e3tGxnFKfE

http://tinyurl.com/LTROI-story

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I also don't think "Stoker" is similar to "Vertigo", as far as being "a tale of human longing and weakness" - that's not what I was talking about. I love "Vertigo", I've seen it many times and I've written about it in detail on a Classic film blog and in other settings. What I was talking about was related to the OP, that I thought Hitchcock would have approved of and appreciated "Stoker" (not necessarily for it's references to "Shadow of a Doubt") - he would relate to it's subversive nature (Hitchcock had that in spades) and Park's fantastic command and technique as a director. If you care enough, read again what I wrote.

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Couldn't agree more, he would TOTALLY approve...

...of how films mimicking his style these days can be so utterly pathetic, that it makes us all realize just how much of a genius the man was!!

Sorry, still can't get over just how bad this movie is.

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Here's a suggestion ... why don't you just stop coming here sh!tposting, that way you'll get over your "bad experience" with this film in a more timely manner.

No need to thank me.

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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0e3tGxnFKfE

http://tinyurl.com/LTROI-story

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A brilliant filmmaker like Park chan-wook obviously knows that what he wants to accomplish is something that not everyone will appreciate, and a certain contingent will only be pissed off by the work, because they simply don't get it - but why would anyone become so angry toward and morbidly fixated on a film they dislike? Maybe they feel, unconsciously, that somehow the filmmaker is looking down on them, and they feel resentment, like a short person resenting someone who is tall. Damn, there are so many films that I've seen that I personally hate or think are total b.s., but that just makes it something I want to forget as soon as possible, not to waste more time by continuing to rail against it. If Park chan-wook reacted by dumbing-down his vision so as to appeal to mediocrity, he'd be debasing his talent for the sake of popularity. But of course he understands that he wouldn't achieve popularity either, because he would be making a film that doesn't reflect his true sensibility, and the audience would also feel that and would probably not respond. If an artist is brilliant, as is PCK, it's always best to work at the level of skill and perception that challenges the talent. It's really the best for all involved. I was thrilled and inspired that this is what Park chan-wook did with "Stoker".

Hitchcock had to operate in a very studio driven environment, his least commercially successful film from the 50's, "Vertigo", was misunderstood by many. Some people feel that film might have been the closest to Hitchcock's soul - he was being the auteur on that one, for sure (he was influenced by the great european directors of that period). In that film and his other more mainstream films, he was a master of film technique, the use of the camera and editing, sound, etc. - this is something Park chan-wook also shares, along with wit and a subversive nature. I really do think Hitchcock would have approved of "Stoker" - I think he would have gotten right into the spirit of things, he would have recognized a kindred spirit and given it a thumbs up, or at least a sly smile.

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Hey LifeVsArt--just enjoyed reading your comments on the Jane Eyre message board. Guess we're both Mia Wasikowska fans, huh?

I remember Truffaut describing Hitchcock's trademark as the tendency to shoot sex scenes like murder, and murder scenes like sex. Stoker manifests this philosophy exquisitely.

I think the reason Stoker disturbs some people so greatly is that it forces you to confront a deeper truth about the nature of violence. We are so conditioned to see violence either as empty entertainment, all spectacle and no consequence, or else, in a darker and less mainstream film, as entirely ugly and brutal and animalistic and psychologically shattering. I have no complaint with either (except that it does worry me that so many films deemed appropriate for children are of the former category, depicting physical conflict as glorious or, at best, merely ephemeral in its negative effects), but I am fascinated by the perspective represented in Stoker--that violence can also be beautiful, seductive, even erotic. I find nothing wrong with exploring such a hard truth, but some people, uncomfortable with the notion of violence as a positive force in ANY context (even one in which the perpetrators are clearly psychopaths and NOT meant to be portrayed as role models), deem it immoral or else would deny that such a theme has any meaning, or even that it exists, instead recontextualizing films like Stoker (or the TV adaptation of Hannibal, which I also love) as well-photographed but empty. Needless to say I completely disagree and applaud the daring efforts of storytellers like Park, who are willing to voice unpopular viewpoints that challenge the popular and often overly tidy notions of exactly what it means to be human.

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Hi nightwishouge - I really appreciate your comments, I think they add a lot.

I had written a fairly long response to your points, quoting you along the way - it took a bit of time and effort. Unfortunately, just before I was about to post it I somehow stupidly deleted everything. What a drag! Hopefully, I'll be able to get back here later and gather my thoughts once again, and respond to you properly - you hit upon some really interesting areas.

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I'm going to have another go at responding to your comment (hopefully, I won't delete this one).

I am fascinated by the perspective represented in Stoker--that violence can also be beautiful, seductive, even erotic. I find nothing wrong with exploring such a hard truth


If artists can't explore this sort of thing, the instinctual side of humanity, which often can be quite dark, who can? I think that rather than just keeping all knowledge of the the violent/erotic side of the instincts repressed, it's better to explore it in works of art. Park chan-wook is not presenting a model of righteous human behavior, of good triumphing over evil - it's completely amoral. This has always been a problem with the popular consumption of artistic works - it's the reason that Gustav Flaubert was put on trial for writing "Madame Bovary". "Stoker" has incredible aesthetic beauty and, as you say, seductive power.

instead recontextualizing films like Stoker (or the TV adaptation of Hannibal, which I also love) as well-photographed but empty.


That's the cliche that you often see these days of "style over substance". In the case of "Stoker", the surface is so visually stunning, and the filmmaking obviously masterful, that it's easy to label it all style, and therefore it must be empty. I think many people think of plot the same as substance - that if the work isn't plot-driven it means it lacks meaning. "Stoker" works in a way that's similar to music, it's very dreamlike, but it explores the instincts in a mesmerizing way that a linear narrative would have difficulty matching.

Guess we're both Mia Wasikowska fans, huh?


Definitely. I saw your comments on the "Jane Eyre" thread, very nice. I think she illuminates her performances in a very special way. She's able to express the personal psychology of the character without being obvious, and she has this enigmatic, ambiguous quality, a kind of hypnotic undertow - she's able to express a great deal in a minimal way. I think she's in her own class right now.







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Bravo!

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Hitchcock would sue Park, Plaza, Street, Woods and Scott for plagirizing his movie with Joseph Cotten (Uncle Charlie), Shadow of a Doubt. This is most outrageous!

What if my problem isn't that I don't understand people but that I don't like them?

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I have a collection of Hitchcock films and when I watched this, I thought exactly the same thing. H would have been drawn to this story of he'd had it back in the day.

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