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Jupiter Ascending was better than The Force Awakens


And I'm 100% serious when I say that.

First of all, I enjoyed both films. While they're both flawed, however, I find the flaws in JA more minor and forgiveable than the flaws in TFA.

The main problems with TFA were, as far as I'm concerned, as follows:

- The plot was far too rushed, and there wasn't really any pause for breath.
- There were far too many gaping holes/mysteries that were obviously left unexplained so they can be left for the sequels. I'm especially thinking of the question of Rey's parentage here.
- It was far too derivative of A New Hope. It really was a plot point by plot point remake of ANH for much of the film, with a few setpieces/emotional beats borrowed from the sequels.
- Character development was sketchy, with there being some great character building scenes but some seriously underdeveloped character motivations.
- The dialogue was extremely contrived and goofy.
- There were a ridiculous number of plot contrivances.
- Characters just drop out of the film without any explanation as to where the hell they went.

What's most interesting to me, however, is that JA was accused of having many of the same flaws - the rushed plot, underdeveloped characters, unexplained mysteries and goofy dialogue are all problems with JA as well. However, I don't think they are as serious problems in JA as they are in TFA - in JA, I always understood why everyone was doing what they doing. I understood why Caine was so fiercely protective of Jupiter, and determined to go back for her. I understood why the villains were so twisted and depraved. While there's a lot to take in and not everything is explained, the film is mostly self contained and no major questions are left hanging. I found the pace fast, but not unduly rushed.

One definite advantage TFA has on its own terms over JA is that it has better character building moments, and Rey is better established and better developed than Jupiter is as a heroine. I really loved Rey, and just wish the film had focused on her a bit more since she was easily one of its strongest elements.

But the single greatest advantage JA has over TFA is originality. While it's common to see people accuse JA of being derivative of other sci-fi films and pre-existing properties, it's no more guilty of that than A New Hope was back in 1977. It's cine literate and conscious of its influences, but it is absolutely its own thing and it takes risks and swings for the fences in ways that TFA doesn't even skirt around. It's also by far the more beautiful and aesthetically pleasing film - and while there's no way it will happen, JA is eminently more deserving of 'best VFX' plaudits than TFA. It's far more beautiful and visually inspired.

Overall, I can't escape the impression that TFA is lauded while something like JA is viciously attacked and rejected because of the nostalgic attachment people have for Star Wars, and their craving for a 'new' story identifiably set in the same world as the original trilogy. I've seen people endlessly make excuses for the flaws in TFA, and while I don't doubt that people genuinely enjoyed it (I did!) I can't escape the impression that if it had been a film on its own right with no predecessors it would come under far harsher criticism, as JA did.

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As I haven't seen it I can only comment on this:

- It was far too derivative of A New Hope. It really was a plot point by plot point remake of ANH for much of the film, with a few setpieces/emotional beats borrowed from the sequels.


I entirely understand that this happened. The SW prequels were so bad (Jupiter Ascending is the freaking Godfather in comparison to them, especially compared to the first 2) and their execution so.. anti-SW that I imagined the beginning of the new trilogy would play it this safe and unimaginative as you say it did, in order to wash away the bad taste the prequels left.

If you take a look at the marketing campaign of the new film the most talked subject was how the film is going to be faithful to the originals. "JJ is a big OT fan", "we are shooting film instead of digital to get the same look", "we are using practical effects as much as we can", "the original cast is back" and so on.

Even the choice of director seemed like a conscious choice to get the biggest fanboy of the OT they could find. (I'm saying this as somebody who likes Abrams movies!)

I do believe the next two movies will be more original something that is reflected by the choice of directors as well.

By the way I saw ANH a couple of days ago and I was surprised by how much it reminded me of JA because of the way it name dropped places, races etc we know nothing about to make the point that there is an entire alien, to us, universe.

For example:

There are several creatures approaching from the southeast.
Sand People, or worse.

Come on, let's go have a look. Come on!

Well, there are two Banthas down there... but I don't see any... Wait a second.
They're Sand People, all right. I can see one of them now.

Hello, there.

Come here, my little friend.
Don’t be afraid.

Oh, don't worry.
He'll be all right.

Rest easy, son.
You've had a busy day.

You're fortunate to be all in one piece.

Ben? Ben Kenobi?

Boy, am I glad to see you. The Jundland Wastes are not to be traveled lightly.


Sand People?? Banthas??? Jundland Wastes?!

It instantly reminded me of what Lana said about JA / SW:

"But isn't that the experience we love in something like 'Star Wars'?" Lana asked.

"You refer to things in passing," Andy said.

"Where did Wookies come from? No one knows? It's okay."


I had honestly forgotten about this aspect of SW!

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good points about TFA, but this film was hard to follow plot-wise and Channing Tatum looked like a dork, that's a big problem--Sure its an aesthetically pleasing film, love the special effects, but that should be expected, look how much money this movie cost! and Jupiter's casting was a mistake--Mila Kunis sounded flat against the British actors, I liked her better in Oblivion

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Being hard to follow was indeed a common complain upon release and I'm sure the flawed editing is partly to blame but at this point half of the Wachowskis movies are described as being hard to follow because they require some amount of thought; The Matrix sequels, Cloud Atlas and Jupiter Ascending.

And if we go by the critics commentary on The Matrix DVD re-release and Blu-ray these fine gentlemen had trouble understanding half of the stuff happening in it even though 5 years had passed since its release. I wish I was kidding.

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I just saw the movie which I didn't really expect to watch it this week but it sort of happened anyway.

I agree with your bullet points. What I didn't like as much and where I sort of disagree is Rey's development because she just goes from awesome to super awesome. I would enjoy it more if she was less awesome to begin with, eg say (very minor spoilers) if she first sold the droid and later she was like oh no what have I done and went to get it back etc.

So Rey = awesome.
Rey's development = not so much.

And yes, the rehashing of.. pretty much every single thing they could rehash from the original(s) was distracting (those that criticized the Wachowskis for recycling in JA the "sucking the life force" part of the Matrix (which they sort of did) and the "chosen One" plot (which they actually didn't) should have a field day with TFA - but that's not going to happen) but regardless I felt entertained. And yes some of the dialog, when the characters were speaking about the force and the light and dark sides or Finn's "until I met you" speech come to mind, made my eyes roll.

Both are flawed movies but both entertained me about the same. But I know which one I will enjoy more in subsequent watches; the one that shoots for they sky and is filled with stuff to discover.

Now let's hope John Williams steps down and lets Giacchino do the score for the next two movies because I have no idea what happened with this one (old age?) and Giacchino has proven himself to be a competent successor multiple times - JA included.

PS Adam Driver ain't got nothin on my boy Eddie.

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I saw TFA again after making the OP, and will be seeing it at least two more times. I saw it in horrible conditions the first time (I'll elucidate via email), and the improved context the second time around made me appreciate and enjoy the film a lot more. It's now vying with Crimson Peak for second place in my top films of the year list.

Rey was a brilliant character, and I loved her even more the second time around. I kind of wish they'd giving Jupiter a few more humanising moments in her opening scenes, like the ones they gave Rey. The Force Awakens communicates a great deal about Rey with no dialogue or exposition, just the visuals and Daisy Ridley's wonderful performance, and Jupiter would have probably benefited from a similarly nuanced approach. The montage of cleaning drudgery covers similar territory, but is less effective, imo.

The blatant copying of ANH bothered me far less on my second viewing, with only the attack on the Death Star on steroids that was Starkiller Base sticking out for me. I was much more forgiving because I was far more invested in the characters an their inter-relationships, which made me forgive the hackneyed plot.

The dialogue that stuck out for me as openly bad was Han and Leia's 'let's discuss our evil son' chat, since it read as incredibly phoney and forced to me. They had to deliver the exposition somehow, of course, but I felt it was botched.

And you're right - they're both flawed movies, but they're also both exceedingly enjoyable. One of my favourite JA reviews said something along the lines of 'it has common flaws but extraordinary virtues' and I absolutely concur with that. It's why JA retains the edge for me - it attempts things and innovates as TFA never does, and that makes it incredibly exciting and admirable for me.

And while Eddie still wins, I love AD as Kylo. They're both total man children, however, and I love their absurd toddler tantrums and histrionics. Wonderful villains!

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It is exactly because of that resemblance in behavior I compare them!

It will take me a second viewing (which won't happen until the movie is released to home video) to better assess Driver's performance (which I largely enjoyed) which similarly to Redmayne's makes you go WTF? but Redmayne's performance despite its WTF-ness connected instantly with me from the very first viewing. Redmayne's Balem is my absolute favorite aspect of JA. 😁

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No it wasn't.

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I agree. Neither should win an Oscar or such but this one was at least a bit entertaining. I didn't find the latest Star Wars one interesting at all.

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Wow you most be high on drugs or something....

Jupiter Ascending was a total *beep* The movie didn't make any sense, and why the *beep* did they keep making situations where Channing Tatum had to rescue her... it was like 5 times or even more!

If you didn't like The Force Awakens then you just dont know a great movie when you see it, and apparently neither liked the old Star Wars movies.

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You clearly didn't read my post. I loved both films, and my opinion of TFA has improved massively since my first viewing - I've now seen it five times, and consider it the second best film of 2015. I still give Jupiter Ascending the edge for the reasons I set out in my OP.

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[deleted]

Quite frankly both films were terrible. At least the heroine in TFA didn't need saving every other scene like Mia did in JA.






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