Original Ending


Was this the original ending to the series? It felt like it suddenly changed direction midstream. I wondered if the idea of a DA movie was proposed about then, causing the original ending to be scrapped. I think Robert and/or Thomas was meant to die. It was the ONLY reason I can think of for the whole boring hospital merger storyline. And the actress who played Cora said in an interview that there would be three weddings and a funeral, but there was no funeral. The theme of the show was change, but nothing changed much that I could see. Everyone but Edith was still there in some capacity. It's like they decided to keep everyone together for a possible future movie. Does anyone know?

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You bring up a very interesting topic and one that hasn't generated much discussion on this forum.

I distinctly remember an interview with the actress who played Cora before the sixth season in which she said something would happen that profoundly (and apparently sadly) changed their way of life. The implication was something like a major death (such as Robert's death) that would lead to the closing of the Abbey or something similar - a drastic lifestyle change. I didn't think the Abbey would be sold, but that Robert's death would necessitate more death duties, leading Mary to close down the Abbey/rent it out while retaining the estate and endeavoring to manage it successfully so that George would inherit it entirely someday. Meanwhile all the servants would be let go, Cora settled in a dower house somewhere or even returning to America, Edith married off, etc, altogether the very decisive end to a family and their world at Downton. It would fit in well with the decline / retrenchment and survival attitude that became prevalent among the aristocracy in the interwar years.

But that did not happen. So it's possible Fellowes had a change of heart and wrote a different ending to Downton Abbey, one that was much rosier and positive. When you get down to it, the family's lifestyle did not really change that much in the mid 1920s from when the show first opened in 1912, just with marginally fewer servants.

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Back when that was first aired, the speculation was that the funeral was that of Peter Pelham. As soon as Bertie mentioned that he was Peter's third cousin, the odds shot up that he'd be the Marquis, given Matthew's third cousin relationship to Robert.

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But we didn't see the funeral for Peter Pelham or Charlie Rogers, both very minor characters anyway. I can't believe that that's what she was referring to. I think Robert was meant to die.

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No, it was Pelham’s funeral. Absolutely. There was a lot of speculation by fans that Robert would die, but that’s all it was.

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That is such a good point! I can't believe I didn't think of it myself. It's so obvious now that you mention it, and it explains all those major buildups of storylines (hospital saga, Robert's ulcer, Thomas' torture) that ended in nothing. It also explains the whole feeling of aimlessness that permeated the series.

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“Ending in nothing” is Fellowes’s modus operandi. He does it all the time!

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I think that the funeral was for Violet, maybe in that same period is the final fight betwen Mary and Edith and in her last hours she managed to bring peace betwen those two. With Violet´s death the series could have shown to us the "end of a era", because to this point Violet is the only one who is pinning for the old days, even Robert changed (accepted Tom in the family, also Marigold, etc), the other member of the old guard is Carson, but he hasnt enough power. Also i think that the hospital thing was made with the purpose of show us how retrograde Violet was being and how Cora emerged as the leading lady of the county, (something absurd, because in the same moment that Robert´s father would have died, Violet would have passed all of her duties to Cora); the hospital could have been better, but JF is so in love with Violet that even if her point is the wrong he gave to her the best lines.

I also agree that Robert´s death could have a lot of impact, but i seriously doubt that JF would go so further to trying to explain to the viewers that Downton should pay another death duties. The whole "we must economize" was so badly done, for example, after Matthew´s death we saw Robert complaining about death duties, but in the next episode they do a whole house party with a opera singer included; then in season 6 we also they told us that they are trying to save but we see Mary and Robert hunting as if nothing had changed. For dramatic purposes Robert´s death would have been right when Matthew was alive.


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The cast has stated repeatedly that they only got their scripts slightly in advance. They did not know themselves how the series would end until the final script was sent to them. For the actress playing Cora to make the "three weddings and a funeral" statement fairly early in, the death must have been intended in an earlier episode and not the finale. They would have wanted to keep Violet to the last as she's the biggest draw for the show.

Robert's death would have heralded the succession which was one of the big themes of the series, the passing of the torch. Remember, his ulcer story began already in season 5. Why have all that setup for nothing?

It would have caused the biggest change in the lives of the family and their servants. It would also make Violet see that with a hospital merger, he might have been saved. She would have to admit she was wrong. Otherwise, I can't understand why six episodes were dedicated to such a boring plotline while Thomas' suicide attempt was brushed over in a few short scenes. Again, it doesn't make any sense.

It only makes sense to me if I think ultimately the option for future movie(s) determined the ending and the decision to keep everyone but Edith in that house in some capacity. Of course, that's only my opinion. I could be wrong. But I don't think so.

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I don't think so either. In fact, I'm sure you're right. The whole Robert story was so obviously leading up to his death. In fact, that was the only logical conclusion to the bloodbath of episode six(?) plus the hospital soap opera. How many people survived burst ulcers in 1925? How many survivors were treated in cottage hospitals?

A real pity that Fellowes pulled his punches on this, because it would have been so fascinating to see everyone's reactions to Robert's death. I am not one of those mugs on whom they're banking to shell out money for a movie to see Robert die. Besides, that ship has sailed already; I don't think anyone's interested in a replay of the ulcer storyline.

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I am not one of those mugs on whom they're banking to shell out money for a movie to see Robert die.


I personally doubt we shall see a movie. When Michael Fox recently tweeted about a forthcoming movie he seemed to be the only member of the cast who was aware of it, according to one or two of the other tweets that followed. Most of the cast are working on other things so getting them together again will not be easy task. Probably best left where it ended IMO.

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I'm surprised you say this because I've read quite a few interviews with cast members who seemed interested in doing a movie. I do know that there was a bit of a flap over something Michael Fox said regarding how great it would be if Maggie Smith agreed to join, which was interpreted to mean that she had already agreed.

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I think that after season 3 and the resultant uproar, there won't be any major/onscreen deaths. I think too that any movies will be along the lines of the Christmas shows--warm and friendly, with a crisis that will arise only for it to be solved.
I still like my abdication year scenario, if only to see Cora and Edith in their full court rig.

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Its all depend how you write the "death" of someone, Matthew´s death was so badly done, i dont care if it shows blood and guts, but it has to be well done. For example i would have done the same trick that they used with O´brien, lets say that in the first episode of season 4 we see Matthew´s car droven away (and only the back of some man similar to Dan Stevens) to his work (we must remember that he still worked as a solicitor in the next town), and then phone calls from his office to the house asking where he was, then the police arriving to the house telling the bad news. With that, Dockery could have give us a memorable scene (in the same stupid way they didnt show us how Edith reacted to the news of Gregson but instead they show us Mary talking about her haircut, making her haircut, and showing the new haircut). It was so frustating that they didnt show us those poignant moments.



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According to JF, having Matthew die at the end of season 3 meant that season 4 could begin well into Mary's widowhood--6 months in fact--and show her recovery and reintegration into social life, instead of half a season of unrelenting grief.

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Yes, I saw the same about JF's reason for killing off Matthew at the end of Season 3.

In hindsight, I wish JF had resolved the Mary/suitors and Edith/Gregson death/Marigold with Drewes story lines very early in Season 5. Not drag them out as he did until practically Season 5 Episode 9 (Christmas Special). Resolving these early would have allowed for the introduction of Henry Talbot & Bertie Pelham much sooner. We could have had more development of their characters and their relationships/romances with Mary & Edith. Not the very rushed way it was handled in Season 6.

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Resolving these early would have allowed for the introduction of Henry Talbot & Bertie Pelham much sooner. We could have had more development of their characters and their relationships/romances with Mary & Edith. Not the very rushed way it was handled in Season 6.
There was a telling bit of dialogue near the end of season five. Mabel tells Mary that she can't stop trying to attract men even while she doesn't want them. That was true of the three suitors in that season. When she is deeply attracted to Talbot, she's afraid to leave her old, safe dynamic. In retrospect, that could have been made plainer.

JF said of Gregson that he allowed Edith to be herself; Bertie is like that but even more so. For the first time she's attracted to a man who isn't somehow above her--older, more mature, more important in the world. He's of her age and class; he hasn't a prefix but he's hale and hardy in 1922, with no strings. She doesn't have to fight her attraction to him, and for most of the season, she brings more to the table than he does. It seems more natural and less rushed.

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I enjoyed both sisters in Season 6. Season 5 was a stagnation of their characters for me. Drawn out story lines that had both sisters just "spinning their wheels".

Of their 2 new love relationships, yes it seemed JF put a little more "care" into Edith/Bertie than Mary/Henry, making Edith/Bertie feel more natural/real in its progression.

BUT I felt JF left TOO MUCH for Episode 9/CS for Edith/Bertie while resolving so many other characters story lines too. Yes, I realize that JF needed to touch on all the characters as it was the last episode. But so many of the Edith/Bertie scenes were so rushed in it. As well as the reconciliation scene between Mary & Edith.

I liked the Henry in Ep9/CS and wish we could have seen more of him throughout. That Henry would have made Mary/Henry more believable throughout Season 6 along with their "spontaneous" wedding.

Henry & Bertie entering the sisters lives sooner would have allowed a more gradual progression of the relationships ala Mary/Matthew had over 2 seasons. And Mary & Edith as the independent businesswomen was much more interesting than the drawn out suitors and Drewes story lines.

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if only to see Cora and Edith in their full court rig.


Yeah, and to see Mary curtsying to Edith - priceless!


"Sympathy doesn't butter the parsnips." - Mrs. Patmore

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Julian Fellowes said way back around s4 that he would never kill off Violet.

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It seems the first two seasons were the only ones written out with any kind of vision. JF seemed to be hunting for storylines and repeating them in later seasons. The hospital storyline was boring but JF probably thought it fascinating. He had already done the love interest storyline for Violet so he needed something for her in season six. I don't think it meant someone was going to die.

As for Elizabeth McGovern talking about the funeral in advance, I agree she was probably thinking of the death of the Marquess of Pelham. It was probably planned from the season 5 Christmas special that Bertie would eventually end up being the new marquess and Edith would get her happy ending - otherwise what was the point of having him be a paternal cousin? He could have just been a random guy who was the estate manager.

I think there would have been talk of a DA movie well before the last series started. It's natural for any hit series to think of movie potential as they start to talk about when the series will end.

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It was probably planned from the season 5 Christmas special that Bertie would eventually end up being the new marquess and Edith would get her happy ending - otherwise what was the point of having him be a paternal cousin? He could have just been a random guy who was the estate manager.
The night of the UK broadcast the Guardian boards lit up like a Christmas tree with that very thought.

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There was an off-stage funeral. Bertie’s cousin, the marquess of Hexam.

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No, Fellowes was never going to kill off either of them. The hospital storyline was Violet’s last great hurrah. Fellowes wrote some excellent scenes for her and she acted them superbly. The scene in the library when the house is open to paying guests is outstanding, followed by the even more excellent scene in Robert’s bedroom.

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