Mary is a bitch
What she did to Edith was horrible.
shareYep. She is. She always has been. Unforgivable. Even knowing it was coming did not lessen the nastiness of it.
share
MovieChat Forums > Downton Abbey (2011) Discussion > Mary is a bitch
Yes, she is. I'm tired of Mary acting lik an arrogant snob.
shareShe got a piece of almost everyone's mind after she pulled that spiteful stunt, and she didn't like what she heard - even from those who love her most.
"Are you suggesting that coconuts migrate?"
Well said. No matter the long term effects, it was good to see her get some righteous comebacks.
"Don't worry, life isn't everything." Mike Nichols
Oh my god, I LOVED it when both Tom and Edith finally ripped into her! I was cheering out loud, "Oh yah, take THAT you....!!!" haha
shareWow! Robert to Mary: "That was below the belt even for you." Her own father thinks she is a witch.
shareYet anthor reason why I hate Mary.
shareby JohnD61 » 6 hours ago (Sun Feb 21 2016 18:51:41)
IMDb member since December 2013
Wow! Robert to Mary: "That was below the belt even for you." Her own father thinks she is a witch.I think everyone here got it wrong. Mary has always been fond of Barrow due to his respect for her and little George. When she heard Barrow was in line to be let go, she'd mention about the situation to her father that it may not be a good idea. As soon as she found out about the attempted suicide, she confronted her dad of the stresses which may have caused Barrow to take upon such act. share
I think everyone here got it wrong. Mary has always been fond of Barrow due to his respect for her and little George.
What do you mean always? She's only been aware of his friendship with George for this 1 season. And that's the only reason she ever would have fought in his corner, kind of sad if you think about it. But that's Mary's problem and why she's a btch. She only fights for people she considers her "allies" aka people who do her favors.
When she heard Barrow was in line to be let go, she'd mention about the situation to her father that it may not be a good idea. As soon as she found out about the attempted suicide she confronted her dad of the stresses which may have caused Barrow to take upon such act.
I don't think it gives her the right to say such a nasty thing to her father. Her father had a right to let his own servant go, it's not like he was doing it for vindictive reasons. She made him feel like he was to blame for someone's suicide. That is way below the belt.
For the record, Thomas is my favorite character. share
Mary has always been fond of Barrow due to his respect for her and little George.
The irony there being that it was Thomas who brought Pamuk to her room and then started the rumors by writing about what happened to a friend in London. She's had a twelve-year rage against Edith for writing a letter about it; if she knew about Thomas, she'd probably try to hire Bates to do a hit. share
With Mary she doesnt think things need to change , She wants the grand parties, house full of servants she isn't see why things need to change including downsizing staff.
Also Mary has always made nasty comments towards her family eps Cora.
Slainte 🇮🇪 I am who I am your approval isnt needed or required.
No, that’s not why she said it. Immediately before Carson came in to tell Robert about Barrow’s suicide attempt, her parents and Rosamund were talking about what she did to Edith and Bertie. Mary says, “Do we have to do this now?” Rosamund says, “Yes, I really think…” and then Carson walks into the room so the topic is dropped. Then when Mary hears what Barrow did, she marches over to the tea service so she can symbolically hit her father below the belt.
shareYes and a few seconds ago she stuck a knife in her father . . .
"Still think it was a good idea to sack Barrow?" as they have just heard of his attempted suicide!
She's a sociopath.
If this is how she acts when she is having problems in her life, Henry would be smart to run as far away as he possibly can.
shareI think Talbot should stay way from her.
shareShe knows how fond Barrow is of George and took him to see him. I thought that was sweet, and what an adorable little boy!
"Are you suggesting that coconuts migrate?"
She has her moments.
shareI think the guilt is getting to her. But yes, she has her moments, although the good don't outweigh the bad. Just my opinion.
"Are you suggesting that coconuts migrate?"
Nope. You cannot unring a bell. Once you have purposely caused somebody grief, insincere apologies don't mean much.
shareNo one says Mary dosnt have her kind moments however she only is kind to those she deems worthy unfortunately Edith is not one of the worthy ones
Slainte 🇮🇪 I am who I am your approval isnt needed or required.
The biggest mistake that posters here make is thinking that running down one sister is somehow going to prop up the other one. If you have two seriously flawed characters, deriding the one you don't like is not going to improve the flaws of the other one. I shudder to think how those people interact with people in real life.
shareNo one says Mary dosnt have her kind moments however she only is kind to those she deems worthy unfortunately Edith is not one of the worthy ones
They are sisters, sisters fight and in some of the most ugliest ways. Women are vicious to one another and when they are sisters, the gloves really come off. share
People complain about stereotypes but they are stereotypes for a reason. Women being vicious to one another is reality.
shareShe is kind to people who serve a purpose to her, otherwise, she could not care less about anyone. Here entire life is an exercise in getting what she wants, anyone who gets in her way be damned.
shareOh please, what purpose did Lavinia serve her? Lavinia was about to live Mary's life with the man she loved and in the home she loved, and with the title and money that, except for a sexist quirk in British law, should have been rightfully hers to begin with. Most people in Marys position would have hated Lavinia and would have schemed against her, (Edith for instance would have written a letter to the Home Secretary maliciously tattling on Lavinia for stealing those documents) or at the least treated her rudely. yet, despite encouragement from Violet to do the opposite, Mary was never anything but kind to Lavinia and over time became her genuine friend. Mary could have used the power she had over Lavinia for her own gain, but she refused. I know most Edith fans wouldn't recognize true nobility if it kicked them in the teeth, but Mary's kind treatment of Lavinia, who was (non-maliciously) taking everything Mary held dear, is what being noble looks like.
Edith on the other hand enjoys helping herself to other women's husbands, and their property too, and breaking implied contracts with people who are kind to HER, especially if they are powerless to do anything about it.
I know most Edith fans wouldn't recognize true nobility if it kicked them in the teeth, but Mary's kind treatment of Lavinia, who was (non-maliciously) taking everything Mary held dear, is what being noble looks like.
Edith on the other enjoys helping herself to other women's husbands, and their property too, especially if they are powerless to do anything about it.
Mary Derangement Syndrome in full cry. No one mentioned Edith. Just replay the scene where Mary and Matthew are dancing, and kissing, and Lavinia sees them and her life falls apart.
Please describe the true nobility and kindness and genuine friendship displayed by Mary there. share
In that scene Mary was overwhelmed by her feelings for Matthew, a man she has loved for many years, he asked her for a dance, he told her more or less that he knew she loved him , and that he wished things where different, and he kissed her.
Of course Lavinia was devastated , just as Mrs Drake was seeing the help Edith being kissed by her husband, and I must say I think it wasn't Edith's irresistible love and passion for him more just lust and curiosity. The heartbreak was the same for both Lavinia and Mrs Drake.
I loved that scene with Mary and Matthew dancing, and I can just echo Lavinia in saying they looked so right together.
I think Mary's friendship with Lavinia, she showed it through series two, was genuine. So if someone is to blame in the dance scene it's Matthew ( but I don't).
[deleted]
I think that's my favorite scene with Mary and Matthew, and it's definitely not calculated. If one wants to be evil one could question Matthews actions there, but I really don't .
The impact on Mrs Drake and on Lavinia was the same, hurt and sorrow, but as Lavinia said, they did look right together.. Edith and Drake did definitely not!
And it would be boring if they were always perfect, and never did any mistakes. It's a tv-show after all, all entertainment .
shareExactly. But, a mistake is an uncalculated blunder or faux pas for which a person didn't plan and later regretted. Mary is often regretful and is often apologizing, as any self-aware person would. I challenge any Edith'stan to name a scene and cite dialogue for which Edith was sincerely sorry for something she had done, and apologized accordingly. If they can't find any examples [and I'm fairly certain they cannot] then they either have to claim that Edith is an inhuman Saint who never made any mistakes, or admit she was a calculating, scheming bitch who meant to do everything she did to hurt others and is not in the least bit sorry.
shareI too have challenged Mary haters to do that and show me the proof of their assertions, and I have also challenged them to mention all those scenes in which apparently Mary is horrible to Edith inseason 2,3, and 4, because the Mary hate is not recent. As you can expect, I get no answers because right after that they leave the discussion, they can't mention what there isn't there. Their arguments can't stand facts. Mary haters have written a new story in their imagination...they have all the facts twisted and this is easily testable as they completely ignore the sequence of events and what it is shown on screen. A couple of radical fans I see here remind me in some ways of Kathy Bates in 'Misery', she plays Annie, who refer to herself as writer Paul Sheldon's 'number one' fan.
Against stupidity, the gods themselves contend in vain- Friedrich Schiller
I don't question Matthew either, as he had tried his utmost to do the right thing by Lavinia, as did Mary, but they could not deny how they felt about each other. It's best it happened BEFORE a marriage took place rather than after.
I knew somebody would bring up that dance but any fool could see it was not a calculated 'move' on Mary's part.
I love how the Edith'nuts get all moralistic and period apropriate pearl clutching about that dance, but trot out ever excuse in the book for Edith's attempted and actual adulteries, plus her out of wedlock child.
It is not surprising anymore, now it is expected; their comments consistently show double standards. There is no trace of logical and analytic thinking but just overwhelming emotion and refusal to admit facts. I gave up, fruitless discussion made me change my signature quote, the new one I have is quite fitting if we consider the present circumstances
Against stupidity, the gods themselves contend in vain- Friedrich Schiller share
There is no trace of logical and analytic thinking
None whatsoever.
but just overwhelming emotion and refusal to admit facts.
They CONTINUE to assert falsehoods even after being repeatedly corrected with facts. Like the 'mixup' in the chain of events vis the letter to the Turkish Embassy and Mary lying to Strallan. share
100% certified!!!!!
I hope this show doesn't end with Mary getting a man and Edith not. But I am glad Mary got a mechanic instead of some high flouting Duke.
Maybe it will end with Henry having Mary committed to an asylum after he has been with her for a few days.
shareI could listen to Edith calling Mary a bitch on a continuous loop for days .. It was the greatest thing ever to come out of Ediths mouth..
Slainte 🇮🇪 I am who I am your approval isnt needed or required.
She knows how fond Barrow is of George and took him to see him. I thought that was sweet, and what an adorable little boy!
She did that for her child's sake. When you are good to your own child that's all about being good to yourself. share
I agree. I do not dislike Mary but I loved it when Edith called her a bitch.
shareI am just amazed that somebody had not done it long before this. When you do not stand up to bullies, they have carte blanche to continue. Somebody should have smacked her down long before this. It was sweet that so many people in this one episode let her have it with both barrels. I wish Violet had flown into her more than she did. What a great scene that would have been with Violet using the full force of her tongue. It would have been icing on the cake.
shareYou just had to ask.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9LIWK7hNpm4
Wow. YouTube has it all. That one is going to get a zillion plays.
shareLol I love it...
Slainte 🇮🇪 I am who I am your approval isnt needed or required.
What about what she said to her dad after hearing about Barrow?! That was uncalled for and seemed to be to keep her out of the icy stares of her mother and aunt.
shareThat is the moment he should have told her plainly that she would no longer be in charge of Downton. That he was taking back full control. Anyone who could say something that uncalled for to her own father should not be trusted to be in charge of an estate and the people who depend on it.
shareYes it's so much better to have the estate taken care of by the man that got it
in trouble in the first place.
At least Mary went to see Thomas after he tried to kill himself.
Robert never did.
I thought it was sweet to bring George to see Barrow. We saw them playing together two episodes earlier. When George gave him that orange and said what he did, it truly was an "AWWW!!!" moment. What an adorable little boy.
"Are you suggesting that coconuts migrate?"
They're already letting him keep his job out of pity I think Robert coming to visit would be more embarrassing than spirit lifting.
shareAt least Mary went to see Thomas after he tried to kill himself.
He's a captive audience, and the only person left in the house who doesn't despise her. share
He's a captive audience, and the only person left in the house who doesn't despise her.
And she's the only person left in the house who doesn't despise *him*. Her zinging her father about being such a creep to Thomas all season long was the very least Robert deserved.
I don't object to Edith finding happiness, but having the entire household pile on Mary, of all people, was ridiculous. Really? No one was bothered in the least about Edith shaming the family name by having had a bastard child and then expecting to marry a guy without telling him--or letting anyone else in the family tell him? And Edith lecturing Mary on lashing out at people because she was unhappy as the main problem between them was hilarious considering that was Edith's main character trait for at least three seasons. Edith was all about making everyone else pay for her misery not so long ago.
Innsmouth Free Press http://www.innsmouthfreepress.com share
Do you think she should have had an abortion? The family WAS NOT shamed by Marigold! Lay off the kid.
"Are you suggesting that coconuts migrate?"
Do you think she should have had an abortion? The family WAS NOT shamed by Marigold!
The way they had been previously been written, they would have been. And Edith was certainly ashamed of Marigold. She and everyone in the family who knew about it initially agreed that she should go away for a year to have the child and then pawn her off on some unsuspecting family.
So, yes, actually, they were.
As for her having an abortion, abortions were extremely dangerous back then, so no, I wouldn't have wanted to see that. I think JF has martyred Edith, when he should have just had her grow up and learn from her mistakes and make a few sincere apologies all the way round for being a pill, quite enough.
Lay off the kid.
She is a fictional character. I can assure she does not care.
Innsmouth Free Press http://www.innsmouthfreepress.com share
Only Rosamund knew initially , then Violet and niether were ashamed of Marigold the were forceful as to what Edith should do
Once Cora then Robert found out they were not ashamed either ..
Slainte 🇮🇪 I am who I am your approval isnt needed or required.
Do you think she should have had an abortion? The family WAS NOT shamed by Marigold! Lay off the kid.
Well you don't exactly see them running out their proclaiming her bloodline. they obviously love the child but their is still a bit of shame and social stigma there. share
No one was bothered in the least about Edith shaming the family name by having had a bastard child
I have never understood the reasoning behind this! Edith fell in love with a man she thought she was going to spend the rest of her life with, they had (the horror) sex and a baby was conceived. But Mary has had 3 lovers but that is okay? Yes one was her husband, but there was Pamuk and what about the week she spent with Tony in a hotel? Why is it okay for Mary but not Edith?
Maybe life is a dream and we wake up when we die?
share
Because Mary is the blessed Virgin Saint , even though she has shagged 3 men Vrs Ediths one
Nothing Mary ever does is wrong according to her fans. Edith breathes she is wrong.
Slainte 🇮🇪 I am who I am your approval isnt needed or required.
I have never understood the reasoning behind this! Edith fell in love with a man she thought she was going to spend the rest of her life with, they had (the horror) sex and a baby was conceived. But Mary has had 3 lovers but that is okay? Yes one was her husband, but there was Pamuk and what about the week she spent with Tony in a hotel? Why is it okay for Mary but not Edith?
The first time was such a potential scandal that it could have destroyed Mary and her family's reputation for years to come, so it was hardly considered "okay." Her second "lover" was her husband. The third she spent time with after she was a widow with a healthy heir. Widows had more leeway, even back then.
No modern viewer would see any of the above as problematical, but Edith sleeping with a married man who had an invalid wife would be problematical whether the year were 1925 or 2015.
Innsmouth Free Press http://www.innsmouthfreepress.com share
I have never understood the reasoning behind this! Edith fell in love with a man she thought she was going to spend the rest of her life with, they had (the horror) sex and a baby was conceived. But Mary has had 3 lovers but that is okay? Yes one was her husband, but there was Pamuk and what about the week she spent with Tony in a hotel? Why is it okay for Mary but not Edith?
Because it was 1920's England and she had a child. The same thing happened to the maid and the Officer during the war, even worse in their eyes is that she was a servant. share
[deleted]
I have a feeling George is the one who wanted to see Barrow. Not Mary. But it made Barrow feel better, so it turned out well.
shareThat's rather below the belt, even for you.
Which is the harshest thing he's said to anyone, much less his daughter, and in reality the harshest thing anyone's ever said to her. share
They let Mary get away with her Venom for so long she thinks it's ok to me nasty to her own father
Slainte 🇮🇪 I am who I am your approval isnt needed or required.
Yes, especially because of who said it to her. Your sister lashing out at you is one thing. But your father is another. My brother and my sister and I probably said many hurtful things to each other over the years, but if either of my parents had said something like that to me, it would have killed me.
shareHonoring your mother and father doesn't seem to be Marys strong point
She must have stayed in bed when the Vicar preached that lesson in church
Slainte 🇮🇪 I am who I am your approval isnt needed or required.
We all did things that I am sure drove our parents crazy but we never spoke to my parents in a disrespectful way. It would just not have ever crossed our minds to do so. I was lucky with the parents I had in many ways. My mother was taken to soon and my father was lost without her, but they were the best. Even if we disagreed (and we did!) about something, we never stooped to disrespect.
shareI never talked back to my parents if I did I woulda been knocked into next Tuesday , I don't recall time traveling in my youth
Slainte 🇮🇪 I am who I am your approval isnt needed or required.
We all did things that I am sure drove our parents crazy but we never spoke to my parents in a disrespectful way. It would just not have ever crossed our minds to do so. I was lucky with the parents I had in many ways. My mother was taken to soon and my father was lost without her, but they were the best. Even if we disagreed (and we did!) about something, we never stooped to disrespect.
There is nothing wrong with calling your father out on helping to drive an employee nearly to suicide out of homophobic bigotry. That's a big deal and Mary should not have been the only one saying so.
Innsmouth Free Press http://www.innsmouthfreepress.com share
Robert is not a homophobic bigot. Carson is.
shareWhat a crock. They were cutting back on staff, and nobody has an underbutler anymore.
By making it seem Robert did something wrong, you're trying to justify Mary being a bitch.
There is nothing wrong with calling your father out on helping to drive an employee nearly to suicide out of homophobic bigotry. That's a big deal and Mary should not have been the only one saying so.
Are you watching this thing?
He's being let go because they're making economies. He's an underbutler, and in 1924 that's like typewriter repairman. His job no longer exists. He's been given near-everlasting notice--he's spent the last six months looking for work, and still gets paid. It's tough, but it could be a lot tougher.
If it was because he was gay, he would have gone about three seasons back.
When Matthew died, Moseley was gone before the ground settled on the grave. He got on his bike and started doing any work he could find, no matter how menial. That's the reality of life and work. share
Robert was the one who talked Albert into not reporting Thomas to the police when they came to investigate (when Thomas tried to kiss Jimmy) the at the cricket tournament.
We all did things that I am sure drove our parents crazy but we never spoke to my parents in a disrespectful way. It would just not have ever crossed our minds to do so. I was lucky with the parents I had in many ways. My mother was taken to soon and my father was lost without her, but they were the best. Even if we disagreed (and we did!) about something, we never stooped to disrespect.
Oh please, never? Ever? You can't make it through teens without at least a few rebellious barbs. It's part of growing up. Besides these aren't children, they're grown women with their own opinions.
share
We all did things that I am sure drove our parents crazy but we never spoke to my parents in a disrespectful way. It would just not have ever crossed our minds to do so. I was lucky with the parents I had in many ways. My mother was taken to soon and my father was lost without her, but they were the best. Even if we disagreed (and we did!) about something, we never stooped to disrespect.
shareAnd she isn't a teeneager. She's in her 30s.
shareThat made me dislike her even more.
If it's all the same to you, I'll have that drink now.-Loki (Marvel's Avengers)
I guess you have forgotten what a complete and utter bitch Edith was to Mary in Season 1. I'm not surprised that viewers have forgotten, but I'm surprised that Julian Fellows seems to have as well.
I can't stand Edith.
You can dislike Edith all you want ... I can't stand Mary
It's all good
Slainte 🇮🇪 I am who I am your approval isnt needed or required.
I'm sick to death of hearing about season 1! That was 12 years ago. They were probably teenagers. They're both adults and mothers now, and should act accordingly. Let. It. Go.
"Are you suggesting that coconuts migrate?"
I'm sick to death of hearing about season 1! That was 12 years ago. They were probably teenagers. They're both adults and mothers now, and should act accordingly. Let. It. Go.
Why should we? It was only a few seasons ago for us. It's JF's fault for not writing a proper resolution to Edith's vicious act (which was part of an entire character arc of her being a far worse bitch to everyone over two seasons-plus than Mary was even in this episode) instead of just dropping it like a hot potato and starting to turn her into St Edith of the Poor Decisions, instead. He could easily have had them resolve it by Edith apologizing and Mary admitting that she never told the family because Edith was her sister and an apology was all she ever wanted, and it could have been over. He could have even done that this episode, with Mary then apologizing for blurting out Edith's secret (even if Edith did provoke her a *lot* by being a bitch), and it would have been over. Storyline resolved. Everybody's happy.
And honestly? I think Mary is entitled to feel hurt that after all the crap Edith pulled on *her*, Edith was so high-handed in making sure Mary was the only one in the family who didn't officially know about Marigold's real identity, even though Mary had already guessed.
Innsmouth Free Press http://www.innsmouthfreepress.com share
Think about that for just one second. No one was forced to go along with Edith's wishes. Perhaps they knew that Mary would do exactly what she did; use Marigold to hurt Edith. If Mary were trustworthy, maybe they would have trusted her. Given how things went down, it would seem they were right in keeping it from her.
"Are you suggesting that coconuts migrate?"
Yep. Cora said as much to Robert. They all knew exactly what Mary would do and, true to character, she did. It is very sad that your own parents think you are so cruel that they cannot trust you with such an important piece of family information.
shareIt is very sad that your own parents think you are so cruel that they cannot trust you with such an important piece of family information.
It's even sadder when the only friend you have--Anna--withholds the same information for the same reason. share
Agreed. Anna has done a couple of surprising things here near the end of the series. She kept Edith's secret from Mary. Then, when Mr. Bates said Mary was a bully, Anna did not deny it.
OT: I have been impressed with Joanne Froggatt's acting throughout the series. Many actresses can impress when they have very dramatic story lines (rape, losing a baby, etc.), but Froggatt also excels in the quieter moments.
Think about that for just one second. No one else was force to go along with Edith's wishes. Perhaps they knew that Mary would do exactly what she did; use Marigold to hurt Edith. If Mary were trustworthy, maybe they would have trusted her. Given how things went down, it would seem they were right in keeping it from her.
How which things went down? When Edith was being a smug bitch to Mary and rubbing her new title-to-be in Mary's face, right in front of her not-quite-husband? Or was it before that, when Edith, despite worrying that Mary might find out and Bertie might find out, didn't just up and tell Bertie? Or how about when she had an affair and got pregnant by a married guy in the first place?
Do tell what things that went down made it "right" (or smart, or even in character) for the family members to whom Edith had lied incessantly for years about Marigold (and continued to lie about the marriage status at the time of his death of Marigold's baby daddy) to create an enormous and unnecessary time bomb by not telling a single family member who was bound to find out eventually on her own.
Which thing should I condone in Edith here? That she was a hypocrite in calling her sister a slut for having a one-night-stand with a guy who died in her bed (and outing her to his embassy), then sleeping with a married man and getting pregnant by him? That she was a liar about who Marigold was? That she put her needs above those of Marigold and Marigold's foster families, to the point of creating a situation where one of them had to leave a farm they'd lived on for a century? That she was callous in not stopping to wonder why her sister, who had lost her first husband in a car crash, might be having cold feet about marrying a race car driver? Or that she was stupid enough to think she could keep her secret from both Mary and her future husband, to the point of goading Mary into lashing out at her back right in front of him?
Innsmouth Free Press http://www.innsmouthfreepress.com share
Gotta love all these excuses people come up with to justify Marys behavior , makes me wonder if they would be so forgiving of a relative or close friend who was a such a bitch like mary
Slainte 🇮🇪 I am who I am your approval isnt needed or required.
Gotta love all these excuses people come up with to justify Marys behavior , makes me wonder if they would be so forgiving of a relative or close friend who was a such a bitch like mary
If the only argument you can come up with in defense of Edith is "Well, her older sister was mean to her," I'd say you have no defense at all. I think Edith has gone off and done plenty of objectionable things on her own that had nothing to do with Mary. I merely object to JF choosing the lazy writing route and "redeeming" Edith after her years of concentrated stupidity by having everyone in the story pile on the only character willing to point out that Edith's mistakes don't just happen, that they are a product of her poor decision making.
It's kind of like how I quite disliked Thomas early on in the series, grew to feel sorry for him once they started to write more from his POV, am glad they finally had Robert and Carson get over being homophobic buttheads toward him, but *really* wish JF had written a better way to lead up to that.
Innsmouth Free Press http://www.innsmouthfreepress.com share
I merely object to JF choosing the lazy writing route and "redeeming" Edith after her years of concentrated stupidity by having everyone in the story pile on the only character willing to point out that Edith's mistakes don't just happen, that they are a product of her poor decision making.
I object to this as well. It was a HUGE cheat, and pandering to the lowest common denominator. share
Crikey, the bitches in this thread don’t care about the collateral damage left in Mary’s wake. Mary hurt Bertie, for chrissakes. She blabbed in front of everyone and humiliated him (well, everyone except her beloved Carson, because she slyly waited until he excited the room before casting her venom, so he would continue thinking she is perfect).
Mary also hurt Marigold, a young, innocent child who deserved to have a wonderful stepfather and happy and fulfilled mother.
Mary made it crystal clear what her motivations were when she told Anna about the death of the Marquess, saying that it wasn’t only her love affair that would fall apart but Edith’s, too.
And the squinty, cunty look on Mary’s face immediately before she asked Bertie at dinner if he had come to settle things with Edith. God, she’s rotten.
[deleted]
Think about that for just one second. No one was forced to go along with Edith's wishes. Perhaps they knew that Mary would do exactly what she did; use Marigold to hurt Edith. If Mary were trustworthy, maybe they would have trusted her. Given how things went down, it would seem they were right in keeping it from her.
Well perhaps if they wanted more of an impact with their daughters and not stand their like innocent bystanders they would have reared them both. Parenting via a nursery and a nanny isn't parenting. So when they are adults and they say don't tell Mary or don't tell Edith, something is wrong. share
Well perhaps if they wanted more of an impact with their daughters and not stand their like innocent bystanders they would have reared them both. Parenting via a nursery and a nanny isn't parenting. So when they are adults and they say don't tell Mary or don't tell Edith, something is wrong.That's true, but it would have been completely unrealistic at that time to have parents of Robert and Cora's station - an Earl and Countess - to raise their children the way most parents do today. Violet didn't raise Robert, and Sybil, George, and Marigold are also being raised by nannies. I'm sure one of the other posters, like LadyMarysHat or BedHeadTalks could give you more information about the customs of the time.
"Are you suggesting that coconuts migrate?" share
Think about that for just one second. No one was forced to go along with Edith's wishes. Perhaps they knew that Mary would do exactly what she did; use Marigold to hurt Edith. If Mary were trustworthy, maybe they would have trusted her. Given how things went down, it would seem they were right in keeping it from her.
LOL! Nobody on this show is less trustworthy than Edith, who can't be arsed to keep her word if it becomes inconvenient, and is quite capable of trying to poach a man right out from under his wife.
ETA: sorry devildog, my reply was meant for whoever you were quoting~ Thanks BHT. share
Lady Mary's Hat you have responded to Devildog, but the quote is not Devildog's quote, you responded to the wrong person for hewas quoting someone else, so perhaps add and ETA or write the post again to avoid misunderstandings...;)
Against stupidity, the gods themselves contend in vain- Friedrich Schiller
St Edith of the Poor Decisions
Will someone EVER tell what those poor decisions were? And explain to me how they are any "poorer" than any other decisions anyone else makes? share
Oh, ffs...
Writing that letter to the Turkish Embassy.
Getting together with the impostor heir, basically because the real heir had been her sister's fiance and in spite of everyone else believing he was a fraud.
Kissing that married farmer.
Having an affair with a married man with an invalid wife, getting pregnant by him, and accepting property from his estate that she didn't need to support herself and Marigold, and that should have gone to his wife's care.
Lying to her family about her daughter, then yanking her away from two foster families, the second of whom was effectively evicted from their farm of a hundred years.
Lying to a prospective husband (supported by her hideously snobby family after they discover he just got a big title) about said daughter and continuing to lie about Gregson's marriage.
Showing zero concern for how any of this will affect her daughter, or how it affected the family she got evicted.
Also, if I have to hear one more "Poor Edith" about a woman who has never lacked for a single material comfort and almost certainly never will, I am going to hurl.
Innsmouth Free Press http://www.innsmouthfreepress.com
Writing that letter to the Turkish Embassy.
Fair enough. Letting the Turkish guy into her bedroom and sleeping with him wasn't a scintillating "decision" either, though...
Getting together with the impostor heir, basically because the real heir had been her sister's fiance and in spite of everyone else believing he was a fraud.
You're attributing intentions, here. Because if I disagree with you on Edith's "poor decisions", I'll admit that she's a bit naive, and therefore I believe it's in the realm of possibilities that she genuinely believed that guy.
Kissing that married farmer.
Fair enough. She is indeed was the first woman ever to kiss a married man.
Having an affair with a married man with an invalid wife, getting pregnant by him, and accepting property from his estate that she didn't need to support herself and Marigold, and that should have gone to his wife's care.
You're such a pillar of morality.
Lying to her family about her daughter, then yanking her away from two foster families, the second of whom was effectively evicted from their farm of a hundred years.
She didn't lie for very long, and if you had a shred of compassion, you'd understand why she did.
Lying to a prospective husband (supported by her hideously snobby family after they discover he just got a big title) about said daughter and continuing to lie about Gregson's marriage.
Would explain Mary's hideous snobbishness, indeed. And why would she need to "lie" about Gregson? He's dead! For all we know, she slept with him ONCE! Why should HER past be any more important that Bertie's? He can't expect her to be an innocent virgin at her age!
Showing zero concern for how any of this will affect her daughter, or how it affected the family she got evicted.
It is true that she is the first mother to make irrational decisions about a child she's not supposed to have. And that "adoptive" mother wasn't disturbed at all! To be fair, if Mrs Drewe was grieved by Marigold's being suddenly torn from her, imagine HER ACTUAL FRIGGIN' MOTHER! share
Fair enough. She is indeed was the first woman ever to kiss a married man.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oDPFrtQH6lI share
She didn't lie for very long, and if you had a shred of compassion, you'd understand why she did.
I don't recall her actually telling Robert, he figured it out on his own. share
I'm sick to death of hearing about season 1! That was 12 years ago. They were probably teenagers. They're both adults and mothers now, and should act accordingly. Let. It. Go.
You can't say that about just one, they both need to let bygones be bygones. share
You can't say that about just one, they both need to let bygones be bygones.
True, it takes two. But one's been trying since season two, and the other hasn't . . .
http://static1.squarespace.com/static/50568827e4b0088c256168e0/t/5107905ce4b0a59cd7953839/1359450206360/dabby_comic_001.png?format=750w share
True, it takes two. But one's been trying since season two, and the other hasn't . . .
I disagree, one is blunt and the other is passive-aggressive. share
I disagree, one is blunt and the other is passive-aggressive.
When Edith told Mary that Matthew was a patient at Downton--information that the rest of the family withheld--Mary admitted that her motives were good. From that point Edith has been attempting to establish a better relationship. The main passivity on her part has been to respond to Mary's aggression and not to start it.
Which Mary acknowledged to Matthew when he suggested that she lay off the cruelty; Mary said that was like asking the fox to ignore the chicken. share
I don't think Edith has been attempting a better relationship. Was she trying to when she burned Mary for being into a car mechanic? I think she tried when Sybil died but she basically gave up and focused on herself and they both seem happier focusing on themselves.
-
Consider the daffodil. And while you're doing that I'll be over here looking through your stuff.
Edith never called Henry a mechanic, Robert did! I was a bit shocked, because not everyone could afford to race expensive cars as a hobby. Edith loved Bertie before he inherited a title. If anything, it made her even more uncomfortable because she'd yet to tell him about Marigold, and his mother's expectations made her even more nervous. Mary was hesitant to follow her heart because Henry had no title, but I think she was using it as an excuse. Edith never said anything unkind about Henry.
"Are you suggesting that coconuts migrate?"
Edith never called Henry a mechanic, Robert did!
You are wrong and Moonlighty is correct. Edith has called Henry a car mechanic. Tom who is there and hears what Edith says: ' I am a car mechanic, thank you'.
Edith has also referred to Henry in a more demeaning way, she called him: 'oily driver'
Against stupidity, the gods themselves contend in vain- Friedrich Schiller share
Now you know Mary is the only one allowed to demean people , not Edith just Mary
Slainte 🇮🇪 I am who I am your approval isnt needed or required.
I remember Tom saying that he was a mechanic. Thanks for correcting me. But Robert did also call Henry a car mechanic when he learned of Bertie inheriting his title. I remember his reaction more because he said, "Good golly gumdrops!" Funny!
"Are you suggesting that coconuts migrate?"
Yes, Robert did call him mechanic too. What I did not like was the 'oily driver' comment. Anyway, it is fine, I understand that sometimes we forget things. I forget things often...I even forgot some quotes! I was one of the worst playing the 'who said this?' game, and I started it!
Against stupidity, the gods themselves contend in vain- Friedrich Schiller
If the "oily driver" comment was during that horrible breakfast, both girls behaved badly. I'm not surprised I missed it.
A poster called devildog1982z said something - at the top of this page - about how the girls would have turned out better if they were properly raised by their parents or something like that.
My response was that it would have been unrealistic at that time for people of their station to raise their kids the way most parents do today, and that you or LadyMarysHat could probably give them more information about that.
"Are you suggesting that coconuts migrate?"
This is how I see things between Mary and Edith:
In season 1 the only sister I liked was Sybil. Obviously, I understood that Mary and Edith were irresponsible and spoiled and like many siblings they sometimes were not aware of the consequences of their actions so I did not hate any of them but I did not like them much. I liked both Mary and Edith in season 2 and even more in season 3 and 4. I think they almost had no issues during those three seasons. Some people here have analysed seasons 2,3, and 4 because we have the dvds, and to be honest, there are really not 'horrible' scenes between Mary and Edith during those seasons. In fact, they do nice things together and sometimes we see Mary and Edith coming from a walk. Mary and Edith were not close but during seasons 3, 4 and 5 they were just like other siblings: they had their good and their not so good times. Seriously, when you watch all the show again as a 'marathon' you can count all the barbed comments of season 2,3, and 4 with less than two hands and that is not an oversatement.
It is in season 5 and 6 when they started becoming a bit bitchier again. It was Fellowes who resorted to this melodramatic tactics to hold people's attention and polarise his audience; by doing that Fellowes cheapened the show. Before I never really had issues with the relationship between Mary and Edith, because sarcastic remarks every now and then are not uncommon among siblings. To me, Fellowes destroyed Mary and Edith's arcs and that makes me sad. In season 6, both of them were annoying and unfair to each other, so I can't even just focus on one sister because I didn't really like much any of them. To me watching season 6 was a very disappointing experience. I wish Mary and Edith were as nice to each other as they were in season 3. I think that is their best season.
Against stupidity, the gods themselves contend in vain- Friedrich Schiller
A poster called devildog1982z said something - at the top of this page - about how the girls would have turned out better if they were properly raised by their parents or something like that.
My response was that it would have been unrealistic at that time for people of their station to raise their kids the way most parents do today, and that you or LadyMarysHat could probably give them more information about that.
I never said it would be more realistic or not, only that they may have had better results growing up instead of the parents standing like clueless innocent bystanders. Realism for the times was never my point. share
Edith and Henry end up being friends he drives her to London and she shows him her flat it's a nice scene
Slainte 🇮🇪 I am who I am your approval isnt needed or required.
I kind of liked that scene more than most of the Mary/Henry scenes...is that weird :S
(And he called her 'Edie')
It was nice, he seemed supportive
Slainte 🇮🇪 I am who I am your approval isnt needed or required.
And he called her 'Edie'I like that. I have and Aunt Edie. I last saw Goode in "The Imitation Game," and his interaction with Knigtley's character was light and friendly. I can easily see that carrying over to DA with Carmichael.
"Are you suggesting that coconuts migrate?" share
When Edith told Mary that Matthew was a patient at Downton--information that the rest of the family withheld--Mary admitted that her motives were good. From that point Edith has been attempting to establish a better relationship. The main passivity on her part has been to respond to Mary's aggression and not to start it.
Which Mary acknowledged to Matthew when he suggested that she lay off the cruelty; Mary said that was like asking the fox to ignore the chicken.
I call BS. She sulks, isn't honest and open about her feelings and gives this blank look and shrug when asked a question. Her avoidance and procrastination in telling telling the man she wants to marry about her daughter. Her omission of truths. The setting up the other person to overreactions. These are all classic signs of passive aggressive behavior.
She and her sister have fallen into rolls in which they are each comfortable in, not that they are healthy roles. They both could use some therapy. share
Lol, of course no one has forgotten. But does that make it okay for Mary to do what she did, and she isn't 21 anymore, it's 1926, not 1916.
shareI've lost all respect for Mary.
I agree.
She doesn't deserve to be happy.
She should remain single and shunned for the rest of her life. By the family for what she did to Edith and by society for all of her transgressions.
She is hardly one to throw stones.
And good on Tom for telling her off. She needs a human mirror to show who she really is deep inside.
It won't make any difference in the long run that all the people around her have told her what she is. People like that never believe it. Not in the long run. But it was certainly satisfying for the viewers to see her get tongue lashings from all quarters.
The really telling moment for me was when Bates told Anna that Mary was a bully and Anna didn't deny it. That carried more power than all the outbursts.
Sure did , Anna knows Mary Better then anyone
Slainte 🇮🇪 I am who I am your approval isnt needed or required.
Sure did , Anna knows Mary Better then anyone
That was totally out of character for either Anna or Bates. Anna wouldn't even be having a baby if it weren't for Mary and that's only the most recent help Mary has given her and her husband.
Innsmouth Free Press http://www.innsmouthfreepress.com share
Yeah, I'd love to murder Bates fir calling Mary a bully. Of all people! And you were right on the other thread, everything and everybody was sacrificed so that Edith wouldn't have to face any consequences. We're all supposed to pretend Edith has been perfect this whole time and Mary has never done a good deed for anyone. And this, even though Mary is shown repeatedly, from beginning to end, selflessly helping others, especially the servants and BATES in particular, while Edith can barely be bothered if people are dropping dead in front of her or being evicted because of her. I hardly know what to make of JF'S game here.
shareYeah, I'd love to murder Bates fir calling Mary a bully. Of all people! And you were right on the other thread, everything and everybody was sacrificed so that Edith wouldn't have to face any consequences. We're all supposed to pretend Edith has been perfect this whole time and Mary has never done a good deed for anyone. And this, even though Mary is shown repeatedly, from beginning to end, selflessly helping others, especially the servants and BATES in particular, while Edith can barely be bothered if people are dropping dead in front of her or being evicted because of her.
I like them both, neither are saints and both have their warts. They're sisters after all, and sisters will fight. If Edith needed a kidney don't you think Mary would give her one? Edith would do the same for her sister, but don't think for one minute that would stop their snipping at one another or their rivalry. Sisters will be sisters after all. share
She doesn't deserve to be happy. She should remain single and shunned for the rest of her life. By the family for what she did to Edith and by society for all of her transgressions.
That's rubbish, everyone short of a murderer deserves to be happy. share