Do women hate men, or just accountability? - Maleficent (2014) Discussion

[–] NBates1 10 years ago

It's just a fairy tale. These gender issues are not meant to be delved into so deeply. It just shows that romantic love is not the only form of love.

"We all go a little mad sometimes..." - Norman Bates

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[–] Unvoiced-Apollo 10 years ago

I don't know. I think they could have given Phillip some more to do and still subvert the romantic love trope.

He could have discovered what a terrible king Stefan was and joined the battle on Maleficent's side.

If you're happy and you know it, go sit in the corner and think about your life.

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[–] Zippo_123 10 years ago

Yeah, but no. This is just a fairy tale like Animal Farm is just a childrens book about farm animals. This is propaganda and you know it.

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[–] Unvoiced-Apollo 10 years ago

If it were propaganda, the women would be presented as perfect beings. The are not in this film.

If you're happy and you know it, go sit in the corner and think about your life.

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[–] Zippo_123 10 years ago

Mwah, they come pretty close. Malificent is beautiful and redeemed herself. The princess is sweet and beautiful. The fairies are a bit dimwitted but with good intentions. The men on the other hand are mostly pure evil, apart from the Justin Bieber prince.

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[–] Unvoiced-Apollo 10 years ago

The Princess is more useless than Kristoff and the fairies aren't dinwitted, they're completely incompetent.

Maleficent still needed her male stand-in, Diaval, to take the most powerful moment that should have been Makeficent's.

If you're happy and you know it, go sit in the corner and think about your life.

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[–] behamut 9 years ago

But they were depicted as perfect until men ruined things, which is what the OP was stating.
Maleficent was a delightful, loving, little sweetheart of a fairy who was only driven to anger when the king tried to invade her forest, and then driven to evil when she was ruthlessly betrayed by another man.

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[–] Strazdamonas 9 years ago

an all powerful angel-like fairy is not perfect enough for you. ok then.

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Applied Science? All science is applied. Eventually.

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[–] jec1138 10 years ago

If gender issues aren't meant to be delved into here, then why are almost all the changes to the story centered around that very concept? Do you think it's a coincidence that all those changes had that one twist in common?

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[–] Unvoiced-Apollo 10 years ago

https://www.nyfa.edu/film-school-blog/gender-inequality-in-film/

If you're happy and you know it, go sit in the corner and think about your life.

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[–] Strazdamonas 9 years ago

loved the part about "agressive, antisocial, etc" being "role model traits".

So, basically, what your saying is that women are so bad at making movies they cannot compete with men?

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Applied Science? All science is applied. Eventually.

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[–] LukeLovesFilm28 10 years ago

Just go on YouTube and look for the videos by Sandman. He'll teach you everything you need to know about female nature.

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[–] Unvoiced-Apollo 10 years ago

Because mansplaining is how we learn about women rather than talking with them.

If you're happy and you know it, go sit in the corner and think about your life.

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[–] Strazdamonas 9 years ago

hah, looks like i found a wild one that still believes "mansplaining" is a thing.

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Applied Science? All science is applied. Eventually.

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[–] CathBridgers 10 years ago

Haaaa.

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[–] 9 years ago

[deleted]

[–] Unvoiced-Apollo 10 years ago

I find it very telling he would go to a guy to learn about women's behavior rather than talking with a woman.

If you're happy and you know it, go sit in the corner and think about your life.

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[–] 10 years ago

[deleted]

[–] Unvoiced-Apollo 10 years ago

Or it could mean that even with a psychology degree that it's not wise to use just one source, especially when that source is some stranger on youtube claiming to have a degree. Just because he says things you agree with doesn't make him right.

Men and women do have brains this is true, but psychology is not a hard science in the same way physics, chemistry, and biology are. When it comes to the mind, you can't simply lump men and women into two separate groups and call it a day. "Basic human psychology" as you put it only goes so far and ignores the variation in the human population. Generalizing about gender and their behavior is what leads to stereotyping as well as limited roles and thinking by both genders.

If you're happy and you know it, go sit in the corner and think about your life.

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[–] Unvoiced-Apollo 10 years ago

"I've even read blogs"

In other words, you've never actually talked with women on these issues.

If you're happy and you know it, go sit in the corner and think about your life.

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[–] MydnightRose 10 years ago

This does seem to be the theme of this movie and I've seen it in other forms as well. When a man kills his wife he's a bastard, when a woman kills her husband she was somehow driven to by her evil man of a husband. Remember that Jodi Arias case about a year ago, even then there were women feeling sorry for her because her victim didn't treat her well enough and he drove her to it.
Apparently Gone Girl addresses this and has the female just be a straight up manipulative evil bitch.

Brian Kinney & Justin Taylor

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[–] zooymtoo 9 years ago

Then you know the wrong women...or read the wrong sources. I don't know of any women, including myself, that didn't think that Jodi Arias didn't deserve the worst that she could possibly get.
But I'm one of those women that don't define all of a persons actions by their gender. There's right and there's wrong no matter who you are.
Maybe you should try it.

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[–] 10 years ago

[deleted]

[–] otness_e 9 years ago

At this point, it probably doesn't matter if women hate men in themselves or simply hate accountability to their flaws with these movies. Either way, it's a very poisonous message. And unfortunately, regarding Linda Woolverton, she's been pushing such crap as early as when she wrote the screenplay for Beauty and the Beast and decided to base her on the various feminist movements during the 1970s and even 1990s. In fact, she even explicitly stated that she reused elements from Beauty and the Beast with the Maleficent film (the fact that most of the men were not exactly painted in a very good light even among the good guys, and the women barely seem to show any actual inner ugliness doesn't help matters either). Probably the only reasons why people don't seem to recognize this with Beauty and the Beast is A., at least with Beauty and the Beast, she was somewhat reigned in by other writers who probably had far more class than to push a radical left-wing feminist agenda, and B., unlike Maleficent, Beauty and the Beast was not based on any of Disney's prior works, so one simply cannot make a comparison (and to be honest, I find it ironic TLM gets a lot of flak for changing its ending, when BATB and Woolverton's treatment of it barely has ANY resemblance to the original tale at all).

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[–] darksusan50-8-754143 8 years ago

How does this equate to hating men or not taking accountability. The one in the movie who didn't take responsibility for starting the whole thing was the man. Maleficent was in love with Stefan she didn't hate him, he betrayed her in the worst way possible and then tried to take something that didn't belong to him. Sure she went a little evil but who can blame her after what he did to her, i would want revenge too if someone did that to me. But she changed she gave up the grudge to love Aurora like a daughter, it was him who could not accept his shortcomings or own up to what he did. Had he returned the wings and apologised to her she may well have been able to forgive him but to the end he was the one that never owned up to starting it or take responsibility for what his actions caused. After all her reactions were to his actions. So how does this become her fault or hating men ?

live and let live

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[–] sfmar 8 years ago

Sure she went a little evil but who can blame her after what he did to her

....but she did it to his innocent, newborn child, not him directly. If a man brutally assaults a woman it wouldn't justify her brutally assaulting his infant child, would it? And cursing a child to death-like sleep is more than a "little evil".

But she changed she gave up the grudge to love Aurora like a daughter

....but in my view that in no way negates her initial action in cursing the child. What is Maleficent had been completely unable to remove the curse and Aurora had remained in a death-like sleep permanently, what then?

Besides, the issue many people (myself included) have is the unnecessary reversal of the roles. In the original Disney version Maleficent was evil just for the sake of being evil. She was a villain, period. If the scriptwriter wanted to soften that or make Maleficent a more noble character, fine. But why was it necessary to change Stefan from a noble king and loving father to such a brutal thug? I mean, he didn't even care that his wife was dying. They completely reversed the characters of Maleficent and Stefan, and that definitely reflects the all-too-common "women are good, men are bad" angle.

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[–] andrewpi7 8 years ago

Leaving the "hating men" theory aside...

Maleficent was in love with Stefan she didn't hate him, he betrayed her in the worst way possible and then tried to take something that didn't belong to him.

That scene was ridiculous. Stefan is peacefully going to drag these giant wings all the way back to the castle & expect the King & everyone to believe that means Maleficent is dead with no witnesses??? Anyone would say, "Why are you dragging those giant things around & where is her head?" And if Maleficent showed up angry the next day with other magical/powerful creatures how could Stefan explain that?

Had he returned the wings and apologized to her she may well have been able to forgive him but to the end he was the one that never owned up to starting it or take responsibility for what his actions caused.

Expecting any sane reaction from her vanished after she attacked a baby, but even before that... why would Stefan or Aurora think a severed body part could magically/non-magically reattach to someone years later? Would the same thing happen if King Stefan had cut off her leg or head?

Sure she went a little evil but who can blame her after what he did to her, i would want revenge too if someone did that to me

I doubt most people would find attacking a baby and/or putting an innocent in a coma only "a little evil"... that's twisted wicked evil. Who can blame her? Really?

But she changed she gave up the grudge to love Aurora like a daughter, it was him who could not accept his shortcomings or own up to what he did. After all her reactions were to his actions. So how does this become her fault

Maleficent invading Stefan's castle for the 2nd time was a reaction to her curse taking affect on Aurora and her letting Aurora run to her dad's castle without stopping her (telekinesis, instant sleep, etc) to save her. A sane Maleficent would have asked Prince Phillip for his help... a crazy nutjob would knock him out & kidnap him against his will for no good reason.

Maleficent saved Aurora only for her own selfish reasons - not to lose her new friend. If Aurora had not gone out of her way to befriend that strange horned fairy in the shadows then Maleficent would have left her in the coma or left her to die. Despite being poor stooge guardians, the 3 fairies still did far more for raising/feeding/teaching/guiding Aurora than Maleficent ever did.

Maleficent's grudge/revenge didn't end until King Stefan was killed. If Maleficent had truly "gave up the grudge" she would have used her powerful magic powers (telekinesis, among others) to save his life. Instead she just watched him fall to his death to taste her revenge. All her magic powers (sleep, curses, creations, transformations, telekinesis, etc), yet her only thoughts on King Stefan was watching him die.

Nevertheless, crazy stupid King Stefan was at fault too. The movie was like watching a bitter ugly breakup of 2 crazy stupid people until 1 of them finally gets killed.

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