MovieChat Forums > The Voices (2015) Discussion > I felt so sorry for Jerry

I felt so sorry for Jerry

posted 10 years ago by JMurdock21
81 replies | jump to latest

The biggest theme of this movie seemed to be loneliness and how our character copes with it.

We are quickly shown his well meaning side but we see his incredibly awkward interactions and from that we know he has no friends and no family. Somewhere in his mind, he is also aware of his awkwardness and is justifiably paranoid that others make him out as a joke.

His mind copes with this horrible lonely existence by making friends for him in the form of his pets. Early in the film, he takes his medicine and we see his real lonely existence without any filters.

Specifically, there is a shot of him sitting alone in his chair for what was probably hours. That scene struck me because all of us have felt that sense of loneliness before, whether it is moving to a new place and not knowing anyone, losing a parent/child/sibling, going through a painful break up/divorce. How many of us would've been so eager to take the medication and go back to that lonely existence?

That pain is as intense as a throbbing tooth. People go to great lengths to avoid it. They avoid moving to new places at the expense of their dreams or their careers, they stay in abusive relations to avoid it. Sometimes, it shows up unavoidably, and the one thing everyone asks is "When will this end?"

Sadly, in Jerrys case, the answer is never. In addition to that long dark tunnel, he has mental issues he inherited from his mother and had his mother give him the responsibility of ending her suffering. We also learn that despite his yearning for affection or friendships, he has had none. He had his only friend, the muppet rabbit taken away, he comments that he used to stare into the sky and wish that the stars would become his friends.

We see Lisa bring out his human side although he was already gone by that point. It's also sad bc we know in reality, jerry was likely never going to be capable of having a normal healthy relationship with a person, friendship or romantic because of his mental problems. He was pretty much doomed to a life of loneliness when all he wanted was a friend and a hug.

[–] nobody111777 10 years ago

Yeah, the comedy from the animals didn't make me laugh. I found this movie to be a sad drama, much like a beautiful mind, albeit with a softer touch. While it tried to pull off black comedy, it failed in my opinion. If the guy is crying 80% of the movie because he's losing it, then throw in all the comedy you want, and it never gets funny. I thought it was great. A psychological thriller.

[–] sydnee_man 10 years ago

Yes they should have called this movie a psychological thriller. I have no idea why they put "comedy" in the description. Either way, I thought it was a good movie and I loved the dance sequence at the end.

Follow me on twitter @sydsmoviepicks

[–] philoj 9 years ago

I didn't see it as "comedy" in the "laughing out loud" sense, but in a sense of the Greek use - satire, farce, and unrealism. There is something of a bemused feeling to the whole thing, instead of a feeling of fear or dread.

[–] sydnee_man 10 years ago

I was really hoping that Lisa's love and care would have been enough to save him. It appeared that that was the only thing that he was missing in his life. Of course although he had already killed Fiona, I would hoping that that little tid-bit (ha ha) would not have been discovered until years later. But I think he got his "happy" ending anyway.

Follow me on twitter @sydsmoviepicks

[–] emilforeal 9 years ago

And this is the garbage I'm talking about... How a movie can, and which is exactly the point of the movie, to make you feel sorry for a deranged murder that needs to be put down like a wild rapid animal... Unbelievable.

[–] parbon84 9 years ago

He realised he needed to die, that was the point.

If you can't feel for him (while despising him) in his loneliness I'd say its you that has issues in reality.

[–] emilforeal 9 years ago

He never realized he need to die, killing himself was his way of escaping, like all these deranged losers do when the kill dozens of people. Anyone that feels sorry for this guys has issues with reality, just like Jerry. Which is basically the point of the entire movie, this guys Jerry having issues with reality and couldn't deal.

[–] elsol-3 9 years ago

Seems like you struggle with the reality of what mental illness is.

Should we tolerate what crimes the mentally ill commit? No, because they are still crime.

But we can still feel pity for them, because once we understand why they do what they do, we can feel sorry for how life *beep* all over them and screwed them up to the point where they are now. I felt sorry for Jerry, most certainly, because he obviously had a mental illness, and this movie really did highlight just how crap the mental health industry REALLY is, because we understand the mind so poorly (compared to other body organ systems and the medicine we apply subsequently).

But he still needed to be punished for his actions, and in the end he is, his punishment self-inflected, leaving no other hands dirty except his own for his own death. That ending would have been perfect... if it wasn't for the absolutely horrendous end-credits dance sequence that completely destroyed the entire movie...

[–] emilforeal 9 years ago

Jerry didn't have a mental illness, he didn't want to deal with reality, he liked and wanted to live in a fantasy world he created for himself. That's why his perspective of the real world was skewed. Example, his perspective of his apartment was clean and tidy when in reality it was a filthy, disgusting mess. That's why when he takes his medicine he sees the world as it truly is... His apartment is a filthy disgusting mess, the heads in the refrigerator as decaying rotting heads, his animals are just animals and no longer speak... But he stops taking his medicine because he WANTS to live in a fantasy world and can't deal with REALITY. Were you even paying attention to the movie?

So you feel pity for someone that wants to and decides to live in a fantasy world, where he is king and kills people for the thrill of it because he doesn't want to live in the real world? And then you feel sorry for this piece of human garbage and not for the people he bagged, people whom he told himself that they wanted to die?? What is the world coming to? Seems like you struggle with what actually happened in the movie or did you even see it?

[–] elsol-3 9 years ago

"Jerry didn't have a mental illness..."

Wrong. Just, no. He's suffering from a form of schizophrenia and pathological delusion, the result of a severe childhood trauma; that is abundantly clear from the way the movie is presented, right down to how the medications he takes affect his perception of the world around him.

You really do need to learn to read people's submissions in their entirety instead of just cherry-picking one small part of it, and then making all sorts of false assumptions. This is probably a wasted effort since you obviously didn't read my first submission in its entirety, or comprehend it correctly, but one more time:

Yes, I feel sorry for Jerry. That doesn't mean I don't feel sorry for his victims. It also doesn't mean I don't think he didn't deserve to be punished for his actions (and just in case that sentence confuses you, it means I DO believe he needed to be punished for his actions... and he is, by the end.) Just because you pity someone, doesn't mean you're excusing them from their actions and lack sympathy for what has happened to others as a result. It's a terrible thing what he did to his victims, and they deserve more sympathy than anyone else.

[–] emilforeal 9 years ago

Fools like you always take shots and use clever tactics to avoid their deluded opinions and backwards analysis. No, everything you said, wrong, all the way. Did you even watch the movie? Jerry CANT DEAL WITH REALITY, this is why he REFUSES to take his "medicine", he would rather live in a FANTASY WORLD were his animals talk to him, period. when he took the "medicine" and was forced to live in REALITY he couldn't' cope, he couldn't deal. Didn't you see his final "confession" scene to his doctor, which reveals why he can't deal with reality? Obviously you didn't your'e just on here running your mouth and don't have a clue.

Jerry is archetype of the men who kill as many people as they possibly can because they cant deal with and hate their own lives and since misery loves company they then after ruining as many lives as they can and when the "jig is up" and they are about to go down they then kill themselves. Do you know how many men have down just that, do you feel sorry for them too? These are the type of men that kill their entire family wife AND KIDS because they are just that selfish and egotistical, and these are the type of people you feel sorry for!!?? Screw you! These are the type of men that if you were in their way, they woudl kill YOU TOO! You dope.

[–] elsol-3 9 years ago

It's obvious you lack the maturity and life experience to debate this topic and recognize what is happening in this movie in its full dimensions.

The reason Jerry can't deal with reality is because of his mental illness. You are clearly not familiar with such things as PTSD, schizophrenia, and so-forth. Perhaps, before you make more mistakes, you should familiarize yourself with these mental illnesses. Everything in his "confession" scene to his doctor is well within the bounds of what a sufferer of various types of mental illness would say.

But, I'm leaving this discussion now, because until you do learn more on the subject, I fear all you are going to do is fall victim to your emotional knee-jerk reaction of "He's a killer, people should only feel bad for his victims."

[–] emilforeal 9 years ago

This is humorous, you are using classic tactics. Even if you didn't agree with my conclusions and everything that is fine and not even an issue. The fact you are outright dismissive of my conclusion and then accuse me of being uneducated and making knee jerk reactions even though I laid out for you in detail why I came to my conclusions and how I arrived at them is very telling of the person you are. It seems you need to educate yourself about a few things since it's quite obvious you seriously uneducated in this matter. You like so many other fools out there will be so easily fooled and manipulated by people like this and it will be your undoing, just like it was the undoing of so many others. All because you feel sorry for someone who could care less about you, they pray on people like you. I'll save you the google trouble and provide an article. Jerry was atypical sociopath and possessed many of the traits and behaviors. Here see for yourself.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/08/23/11-signs-dating-a-sociopath_n_3780417.html

Adios

[–] elsol-3 9 years ago

He exhibits perhaps three out of eleven of those trends. So do I, but then again I'm a trained medical professional, so I don't freak out in certain situations the way others do. He hardly qualifies as a sociopath based on that alone, and the overlap of the presented symptoms with other conditions renders those few correlations almost meaningless.

Nice try though.

[–] emilforeal 9 years ago

3 OUT of 4 LOL... This is too funny, what a bunch of nonsense, and of course I expected you to try that stunt and interject you being a "medical professional" to try and boost that garbage you just spewed.

Jerry showed...

#2:Lying and exhibiting manipulative behavior.

#3:Exhibiting a lack of empathy.

#5:Staying eerily calm in scary or dangerous situations.

#7:Having few friends.

#8:Being charming--but only superfically

#10:Showing disregard for societal norms.

I'll even add...

#11:Having "intense" eyes.

And you say MAYBE 3 LOL, child please. Even if you take away the last one I posted that still leaves him with 6 out of 11, and I could but wont even argue of Jerry having little to no remorse. Since the so called remorse sequences are played out in his head with the cat and the dog actually being Jerry himself and the cat or his lack of remorse side always winning out.

But yea, try again, cause this garbage you are trying aint working, so come again with another lousy way for people to feel sorry for this self centered, murdering, remorseless piece of human garbage.

[–] elsol-3 9 years ago

You conveniently ignored the sentence that featured the words "the overlap with other conditions". But I rather expected this response.

It's pointless continuing any sort of discussion with you, so I'll let you keep on diagnosing people using Google, and I'll keep working with actual patients.

[–] emilforeal 9 years ago

LOL... You tried a classic tactic, you tried to say because you don't freak out in certain situations then you could be classified as a sociopath too. WHAT!? Do you know how misleading that is? Of course you do. Then you made the claim that just because you don't freak out like Jerry didn't freak out that that ALONE DISQUALIFIES HIM FROM BEING A SOCIOPATH! WHAT?! Do you know how misleading and conniving that is!? Of course you do.

You can't be serious here, but yes, you are very serious. The reason why you wont continue this discussion is because I reject your baseless and juvenile tactics, and there is no point in discussing this further with me because you can't fool or con me as easily as you do others. Typical. AND of course you used another classic tactic to make the claim you are a "medical professional" while I am not but just use Google. This is typical bully tactic to try and uplift yourself and your claims while trying to disgraces another and their claims.

We both know you are not a "medical professional" that claims is BS just like the baseless BS claims you been making all thread, give it a rest you fraud.

[–] elsol-3 9 years ago

I never said that because I meet one quality of your so-called "sociopath" list, it disqualifies Jerry; your reading comprehension skills leave a lot to be desired, but once again, I'm not surprised.

And yes, I am serious. And yes, I do work with behavioural issue patients. Which is why I'm quite confident in my assessment of the situation over yours, even for a fictional character portrayed in a movie. And finally, I reject your arguments because they are overly-emotional, sensationalistic, and frankly a typical uneducated knee-jerk response, relying on social-media pop-psychology references to justify your position.

If you really want to make a better assessment of the situation (which I honestly doubt you want to), you would do better to pick up a peer-reviewed textbook or two on human psychological issues, or perhaps use PubMed to search through some journal extracts from the appropriate psychology sub-sections.

[–] emilforeal 9 years ago

You just keep proving your word can't be trusted and you are a liar. You just claimed in your last post say you are done here, because talking to me was pointless, but look, it's you again posting away with your nonsense and lies. Claiming my response is emotional when YOU ARE THE ONE WHO FEELS SORRY FOR JERRY! This is too funny!

And yes you are serious which his truly pathetic for the fact you keep claiming to be a "medical professional" when you clearly are not, making true medical professionals look bad. Jerry's suicide, more importantly the reason he committed suicide is also another indicator that he is a sociopath.

Not only do you lack reading compensation skills, but your writing skills are piss poor as well. Please kill it with your lies and nonsense, you've exposed yourself as a fraud. Go try and fool some other hapless loser with your emotional, I feel sorry for the guy diagnosis, you "internet medical professional" you. LOL

[–] invertedorange-46508 9 years ago

Obviously Emil lives in a world where he knows everything and "fool" is an international currency. This movie is clearly about his mental illness, not him being a serial killer. Every response you gave was a heated childish argument.

[–] DerpFace 9 years ago

Wait... How exactly do you think he's just a straight up sociopath? That would be Dexter. Jerry clearly had feelings of empathy (not sure if you know the meaning of that word), he was crying and conflicted throughout the whole movie. Sociopaths can deal with reality without meds, they're usually narcissistic and never sorry. Sociopaths also fake everything because they lack the ability to feel real emotions more complex than some of the basics like anger and pleasure. In the end of the movie Jerry was even contemplating giving himself up knowing that they'd just "put him to sleep". Yet, he chose to die in a much worse way and make it easier for everyone. You can argue that he's just being selfish but that would show he has feelings thus contradicting that he's a sociopath. Even if I gave you the benefit of the doubt and he was a sociopath, all it would prove is that he has a mental disorder/illness. This would prove you wrong because you don't think he had a mental health issue. Btw, huffing post is not as reliable a source as it once was. Checkmate, I'm out. I'm gonna let someone else read and take over with whatever bs you reply to this.

[–] emilforeal 9 years ago

Hey Elsol, you need yo tell this guy he needs to do his research, he is clearly clueless.

[–] elsol-3 9 years ago

There really is no point trying to convince someone who has already made up their mind, and isn't open to questioning their preconceptions. Particularly not on an internet forum. His posts clearly indicate he believes only his assessment of Jerry, erroneous as it is, and his responses are flawed and frankly immature.

[–] bluefalcon60893 9 years ago

That dudes responses just keep making me laugh. I don't think I've ever witnessed a more closed minded person on the internet. He's hilariously wrong and has had weeks to deliberate and research the topic at hand. Yet, he hasn't had a single intelligent (or witty) response.

[–] soupgoblin00 9 years ago

It could be that he might just be a sociopath himself, and not have the empathy to actually understand Jerry, or have any sympathy for him...

[–] soupgoblin00 9 years ago

I'm guessing that you kinda missed the point that people that aren't sick don't need to take medicine in the first place...

It is probably because you were spending too much lime trying to think of something ignorant to say that you didn't take the time to actually use your brain and think about the whole concept...

Sick people need to take medicine, healthy people don't need medicine.

The fact that he had pills that he needed to take means that he was, in fact, mentally ill.

[–] diegoavilarodriguez 8 years ago

What's wrong with feeling bad for him? Most serial killers aren't sociopaths, but people that were horribly abused resulting in them becoming deranged killer. Had they not suffered from their mental illness and traumas, they wouldn't have killed at all.

[–] emilforeal 8 years ago

What's wrong with feeling bad for him? Most serial killers aren't sociopaths, but people that were horribly abused resulting in them becoming deranged killer. Had they not suffered from their mental illness and traumas, they wouldn't have killed at all.

See, this is what I am talkign about... Where is that empthay for people of color that come up in the worst conditions imaginable?

[–] diegoavilarodriguez 8 years ago

Wait, what does that have to do with anything? Of course people, regardless of race, are deserving of empathy but of course that has nothing to do with we're talking about.

[–] bishop-69757 9 years ago

I felt bad for Jerry a little at first but it got to the point it was impossible for me. He took the cowards way out like so many of these weak minded losers that have no problem hurting people but don't have the guts to face the music themselves.

[–] emilforeal 9 years ago

Bingo^^^ exactly my point... This thread is infested with scum, glad to see someone with sense finally arrive.

[–] pappahodge 8 years ago

Jerry clearly had a mental disorder. He heard voices, which he attributed to first his childhood imaginary friend puppet, then to his and other animals, and then to his victims. He had the highs and lows of bipolar disorder, and you could even convincingly say he had dissociative identity disorder, in how his animals spoke from his different points of view. His dog was his 'angel' side, the voice of reason, who kept trying to tell him he was a good boy, that he could be saved still, so to speak, until the point that he was beyond hope. His cat was his 'devil' side, who wanted him to act on his desires, and to revel in the killing in a sociopathic frenzy.

I'm not a doctor, I don't work in the mental health field, but I'm also not as judgmental as some, and wouldn't call anyone with a differing opinion a 'fool'. Nor would I call a mentally ill person 'garbage'. Jerry was clearly sick. He refused to take his prescribed medicine, and had been in a mental health facility as a child, and was a tragic figure. Yes, he committed evil acts, but he really needed help. This is clearly not a comedy, it's a psychological drama, much like the movie Sling Blade. Watch the series Wilfred to see someone with a very similar disorder, who thankfully doesn't kill anyone.

One more thing, or technically two more, even though they're connected to each other ;) ... elsol-3, quit feeding the trolls, and emilforeal, good job getting me to actually sign into my account and post.

[–] emilforeal 8 years ago

So then you go make an account just to feed the "troll" lol... How ironic smh... Not judgmental but you call me a troll, how ironic, smh.... I didn't call a mental ill person garbage, I called a murderer garbage, but of course you like all the rest will keep playing this game of making excuses and feeling sorry for the murdering sociopath who couldn't deal with reality. But whatever, that was the entire point of the movie anyway.

[–] pappahodge 8 years ago

nah, dude, you got it wrong. I didn't make the acct to harass you, I've had it since before facebook existed. I just don't log in that often, but you inspired me. Lets look at the facts though. Jerry had been released from a mental hospital, they showed when his coworkers looked him up on the internet. He was supposed to be on anti-psychotics..and we saw exactly life was like for him 'sober', so to speak. The medicine kicked him out of his delusions, that his messed up brain chemistry caused him to see. That is textbook mental illness. The way you're arguing that clear fact, is why I implied you were a troll. What do I know, though. One of my favorite all-time movies is Snakes on a Plane
;)

“Out of all the things I have lost, I miss my mind the most.” ― Mark Twain

[–] emilforeal 8 years ago

Lol whatever man... Here is the point that you dudes keep ignoring, my guess you keep ignoring this fact is because you want to feel sorry for him. I can guarantee you if jerry was black all that compassion would go out the window.

OK, I have one, just one question for you... Why did Jerry refuse to take his medicine?

That's it, just that one question.

[–] pappahodge 8 years ago

Obvious answer if you watch the movie..because his RL was so dreary, and he felt so alone. His 'friends' stopped talking to him when he was on his medication. This is a very common problem with bipolar people, which is why I suspect that he has that disorder as well. They enjoy the manic episodes, which raise their energy levels and make them feel invincible--from what I've read and saw, at least. He needed his medication, but he didn't want it. The system failed him. He should never have been released from the group home he was kept in before, as he clearly wasn't ready to integrate into society. Unfortunately, he was also quite intelligent, and smart enough to give the proper answers. 'Do you hear voices?' No, because he hears what's being told him by his animals. His therapist should have picked up on the clues he dropped, but hindsight and all that...
Anyway, why are you so determined to hate him? And what difference does his race or skin color make? Answer, it makes no difference. As Horton who Heard a Who once said, 'A person's a person no matter how small', and to paraphrase, no matter if they're pink, purple, orange or quite tall.

“Out of all the things I have lost, I miss my mind the most.” ― Mark Twain

[–] emilforeal 8 years ago

In other words... He couldn't and didn't want to deal with reality, just like I been saying all along, that is Jerry's REAL problem. He loves the world he created for himself over the real world. Where animals talk to him, where his life was the way he wanted it, his apartment looked great and he could kill people whenever he wanted. Any murdered will tell you that's it's addictive it gives you a high and it's the ultimate form of power and control.

And we both REALLY know that race matters, just like sex matters and religion matters. In this would we live in, IT MATTERS. Again this is another reason you people for sorry for this Jerry, you all love living in a fantasy world that others can't afford to live in cause it will cost us our lives!

See how you continue to make excuses for him, but black people are told to get over it slavery was 100 years ago lol. Yes race matters.

[–] pappahodge 8 years ago

But, but he didn't want to commit murder, it was the cat!! ;)

Seriously though, your contention before was that he wasn't mentally ill, that he merely chose to live drug free to perceive reality as he wished. I agree with that. I'd much rather watch TV on my 42" 1080p 3d HDTV then the 13" black and white TV I had as a child, wouldn't you? The system failed him. He should have been locked away, where he couldn't hard anyone. They should have had bloodwork drawn regularly checking him to see if his medication was in his bloodstream. As I said before, he's a tragic figure, because he was a very sick man who didn't get the help he needed.

And as for race, quit being a race baiter. Race has nothing to do with this movie. The only way that race, religion, nationality, gender identification, or whichever flavor tic-tac you prefer matters in regards to this movie is in how you perceive it. It's all relative. I think you'd be fun to MS3K movies with though, emil. You have an interesting perspective :)

“Out of all the things I have lost, I miss my mind the most.” ― Mark Twain

[–] emilforeal 8 years ago

But, but he didn't want to commit murder, it was the cat!! ;)

Seriously though, your contention before was that he wasn't mentally ill, that he merely chose to live drug free to perceive reality as he wished. I agree with that. I'd much rather watch TV on my 42" 1080p 3d HDTV then the 13" black and white TV I had as a child, wouldn't you? The system failed him. He should have been locked away, where he couldn't hard anyone. They should have had bloodwork drawn regularly checking him to see if his medication was in his bloodstream. As I said before, he's a tragic figure, because he was a very sick man who didn't get the help he needed.

More excuses, just like I figured. Mentally ill wasn't Jerry's REAL problem, people have that same problem and are able to cope and live productive lives. Jerry's REAL problem was he didn't want to deal with reality, he made a fantasy world and made everyone around him live in it. He is a classic SOCIOPATH.

And as for race, quit being a race baiter. Race has nothing to do with this movie. The only way that race, religion, nationality, gender identification, or whichever flavor tic-tac you prefer matters in regards to this movie is in how you perceive it. It's all relative. I think you'd be fun to MS3K movies with though, emil. You have an interesting perspective :)

Race baiting? That's hilarious! Movies are glimpses of the mind of its creator, you can't take it out if it's in there and I can guarantee you it's in there. But your'e right, that's not the point the point it's the viewers perspective and like I said, if he was a black man, all that compassion you have for Jerry would go out the window. You live in a fantasy world where you don't have to deal with reality, so it's all relative to you. White people are mad cause zookeeps had to kill a gorilla in order to save a black child. Like I said, I cant' afford to live in that kind of world you and people like you made or it will cost me my life. You're just like Jerry, which is why you sympathize with him. The ironic things is I was watching a really good video on race when this text came through on my email.

This one:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8aH-WSqanyQ

here is a another good one:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XRQ-Ci6LwVw

And here is even one if your attention span it really really short LOL

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V13nqzefyoE

[–] bigbrandon515 8 years ago

you sound like a SJW

[–] emilforeal 8 years ago

You sound like a white man.

[–] bigbrandon515 8 years ago

posting a Huffington Post article gave you away lol

[–] emilforeal 8 years ago

Your mouth gave you away.

[–] bigbrandon515 8 years ago

You think this movie would be too triggering for you anyway

[–] ssjleon 8 years ago

"OK, I have one, just one question for you... Why did Jerry refuse to take his medicine?"
This is CLEARLY shown in the movie. Have you ever been around someone on psych meds.

[–] emilforeal 8 years ago

[–] pappahodge 8 years ago

Because he was sick. There are varying degrees of mental illness. Obviously his is much more severe then someone with an anxiety disorder or something like that. And as to if Jerry was black, then nobody would empathize with him, that's wrong. Some people, maybe, but not me personally. People are people. Just because I feel that his story is tragic, doesn't mean that I don't feel bad for the people he murdered. It's like the movie Heathers. You can feel bad for Winona and still feel bad for Christian Slater's victims. That's the sort of movie this is. It's in good company with movies like Dee Snider's Strangeland and A Clockwork Orange. Or Dexter Morgan even. If these movies aren't your forte, maybe try R L Stine's Goosebumps. Or if you prefer an ethnic horror movie, Def By Temptation is one of the best I've ever seen. Kadeem Hardison does an incredible job as a soon to be priest being tempted by the devil.

“Out of all the things I have lost, I miss my mind the most.” ― Mark Twain

[–] emilforeal 8 years ago

I already responded to this and for some reason it was deleted. But whatever, looks like I'll do like you do before and be gone from this site myself...

Anyway, no need to go around in circles, Jerry had problems dealing with reality, to me it's plainly obvious, he loved his world he created for himself and didn't want to come out of it.

And no I'm not wrong about him being treated differently if he were black, REAL LIFE proves this. Again, too many people love living in fantasy worlds the create the others can't afford to live in or it will cost us our lives.

[–] iamvox 8 years ago

he loved his world he created for himself

Everything you say makes sense if you accept this one untruth I've quoted. First you have to believe the lie, then your posts make sense, the same way the paranoid make sense once you accept the premise of their delusion.

If you truly believe that he created a world for himself, then you've not a clue as to what mental illness is, and he was certainly psychotic. Thankfully, you have the entirety of the Internet at your disposal, so you can look it up and learn all about mental illness.

[–] emilforeal 8 years ago

Everything you say makes sense if you accept this one untruth I've quoted. First you have to believe the lie, then your posts make sense, the same way the paranoid make sense once you accept the premise of their delusion.

If you truly believe that he created a world for himself, then you've not a clue as to what mental illness is, and he was certainly psychotic. Thankfully, you have the entirety of the Internet at your disposal, so you can look it up and learn all about mental illness.

I'm not doign this again... You ignore evidence so you can beleive the lie you just posted and then claim I don't know mental illness you can further that lie. Im done here, carry on.

[–] iamvox 8 years ago

There was no "evidence," only opinion. Also, I didn't post a lie. You actually wrote what I quoted, and there's no mistaking it. You're wrong in thinking that mentally ill people "create" anything at all. Rather, they've little to no control.

Seriously, inform yourself before you share your misinformed opinion.

[–] emilforeal 8 years ago

The lie is your claims not what I wrote, and this just proves what I am about to say, you don't pay attention to anyone but yourself, that says a lot about a person. You need to inform yourself about a conversation and what was said before you enter it. You are running your mouth and have no idea what you are talking about. I'm not going to explain myself again because it's there for anyone to read already. And since you didn't bother to read or try to understand what I said the first time you won't bother if I explain it a second time.

If you are going to enter a conversation inform yourself about the entirety of it or keep your mouth closed, seriously.

[–] iamvox 8 years ago

I read it. You didn't make sense then, and now that I've called you on it, you're blaming me, deflecting from the issue at hand which is your stunning lack of understanding. As you said, it's all right there to read, I suggest you do that.

I can't help it that you're wrong, and that I showed you where you were wrong. However, no matter how much you whine now and insist that things aren't the way they are, you're still wrong, and you've said nothing about that except to repeat your previous erroneous claims. It's a fool's game to talk to you. Good day.

[–] emilforeal 8 years ago

You're lack of informing yourself is whats to blame, as it always is. You read one of my post and commented on it and posted it without reading everything I said or understanding what I said in context. You dudes are all the same, it's like talking to clones.

Like I said it's there for you to read and you never read it in the first place, so me explaining my comments to you are pointless. I never tried to talk to you, you came here talking to me and now you're claiming it's a fools game. Now look who the fool is.

[–] iamvox 8 years ago

I read the majority of the thread. I understand your point. I showed you why your point is wrong. I can't make this any simpler. You judge the mentally ill by the standards of the sane. That's foolish. This is a fool's game. Gosh, the density of the human mind never ceases to astonish me. Take a psych 101 class and get over yourself.

[–] emilforeal 8 years ago

You didn't read my comments or ele you would'nt make stupid uniformed foolish post like this one. You're a fool coming on here talking to me then claiming that talkign to me is a fools game. Again, I didn't try and talk to you, you came on here talking to me.

You it's clear you think your smart, but you're not, you already proved you're not by playing the fool to your own standards. Yea density of the mind, yet you contiue to post to me and I bet you'll post again, you fool. Inform yoruself of a conversation before you enter it or you will always play the fool.

[–] iamvox 8 years ago

[–] emilforeal 8 years ago

I read the majority of the thread. I understand your point. I showed you why your point is wrong. I can't make this any simpler. You judge the mentally ill by the standards of the sane. That's foolish. This is a fool's game. Gosh, the density of the human mind never ceases to astonish me. Take a psych 101 class and get over yourself.

Should I even have to say it... Told you^^^

[–] ngrome 8 years ago

https://www.nimhgenetics.org/interviews/study16_66/20101210_instrument.pdf

This is the DSM-4 (The most recent is DSM-5 but I couldn't find a checklist like this one) which consists of various mental disorders and their accompanying characteristics. Scroll to page 15 and you'll see the checklist for schizophrenia. You'll see that Jerry would score a 3 on most of these characteristics and would likely be diagnosed as a schizophrenic. He actually could be diagnosed with other mental illnesses but schizophrenia is the most apparent.

What interests me about your posts is that you seem obsessed with dehumanizing Jerry by calling him a sociopath and acting like he doesn't deserve audience sympathy. I suspect you are viewing this through a very ingrained racial lens (which there really isn't anything wrong with, but you're misapplying it here) because you have repeatedly brought up the fact that if he were a person of color he wouldn't have been afforded the same sympathy because of the various prejudices people have when viewing movies with people of color. While I obviously can' be sure, I would assume that audiences (specifically those that view Jerry as sympathetic) would still empathize with him. The movie does a decent job of showing his total lack of control in his situation. Without his medication, he is unable to discern reality from fantasy. When he tries to go back on his medication, the movie shows he cannot cope with the depressing reality of his environment and his life. The voices in his head pressure him into maintaining his fantasy. If Jerry's skin color were changed, but not the narrative or the background of the character, the movie would still clearly show that he is a victim of his own mind. That does not mean his crimes don't matter but it does show that he is not capable of realistically behaving in any normal socially acceptable way.

I hate to say it but your language about Jerry is dangerously abelistic. The attitude you (and many people of various races, religions, genders, socioeconomic backgrounds, etc.) have does more to harm those suffering from mental illness and physical disabilites by not acknowledging that they suffer from something that most people in the world do not have to go through. You're applying standards that Jerry and other real life mentally ill people could not meet which results in them being put in situations where they and possibly others will suffer. I would like to also say that your desire to make this about race shows your own racial blind spots since who seem to be ignoring the various people of color that also suffer from mental illnesses. A person of color with schizophrenia would exhibit many of the same or similar behaviors as Jerry.

[–] emilforeal 8 years ago

https://www.nimhgenetics.org/interviews/study16_66/20101210_instrument.pdf

This is the DSM-4 (The most recent is DSM-5 but I couldn't find a checklist like this one) which consists of various mental disorders and their accompanying characteristics. Scroll to page 15 and you'll see the checklist for schizophrenia. You'll see that Jerry would score a 3 on most of these characteristics and would likely be diagnosed as a schizophrenic. He actually could be diagnosed with other mental illnesses but schizophrenia is the most apparent.

What interests me about your posts is that you seem obsessed with dehumanizing Jerry by calling him a sociopath and acting like he doesn't deserve audience sympathy. I suspect you are viewing this through a very ingrained racial lens (which there really isn't anything wrong with, but you're misapplying it here) because you have repeatedly brought up the fact that if he were a person of color he wouldn't have been afforded the same sympathy because of the various prejudices people have when viewing movies with people of color. While I obviously can' be sure, I would assume that audiences (specifically those that view Jerry as sympathetic) would still empathize with him. The movie does a decent job of showing his total lack of control in his situation. Without his medication, he is unable to discern reality from fantasy. When he tries to go back on his medication, the movie shows he cannot cope with the depressing reality of his environment and his life. The voices in his head pressure him into maintaining his fantasy. If Jerry's skin color were changed, but not the narrative or the background of the character, the movie would still clearly show that he is a victim of his own mind. That does not mean his crimes don't matter but it does show that he is not capable of realistically behaving in any normal socially acceptable way.

I hate to say it but your language about Jerry is dangerously abelistic. The attitude you (and many people of various races, religions, genders, socioeconomic backgrounds, etc.) have does more to harm those suffering from mental illness and physical disabilites by not acknowledging that they suffer from something that most people in the world do not have to go through. You're applying standards that Jerry and other real life mentally ill people could not meet which results in them being put in situations where they and possibly others will suffer. I would like to also say that your desire to make this about race shows your own racial blind spots since who seem to be ignoring the various people of color that also suffer from mental illnesses. A person of color with schizophrenia would exhibit many of the same or similar behaviors as Jerry.

Look at all these white men to the rescue, lol! You guys are delusional, you all live in a fanatsy world and that's why I am done here. You claim I am trying to dehumanize a MURDERER, then you have the gall to say you would EMPATHIZE with a MURDERER! I love to say it, but you are delusional and in need of a serious phychiatric evaluation. You probably need to be on meds as well.

[–] ngrome 8 years ago

What is the problem with empathizing with certain murderers? Some people kill in self-defense, others because of delusions. Aileen Wuornos killed seven men but also went through some of the most terrible things I can imagine any human going though. You can disagree with her actions but still ultimately understand where she was coming from and why she acted the way she did. Clearly Jerry wasn't entirely aware of what he was doing to these women, let alone taking explicit pleasure from actually killing them.

[–] emilforeal 8 years ago

What is the problem with empathizing with certain murderers? Some people kill in self-defense, others because of delusions. Aileen Wuornos killed seven men but also went through some of the most terrible things I can imagine any human going though. You can disagree with her actions but still ultimately understand where she was coming from and why she acted the way she did. Clearly Jerry wasn't entirely aware of what he was doing to these women, let alone taking explicit pleasure from actually killing them.

O yea? Name a few black murderers you empathize with... Just like a figured... So long you delusional man. Get that evalve you need those meds, quickly.

You dudes can't even empathize with Nat Turner, FOH with that BS.

[–] ngrome 8 years ago

Off the top of my head I can't think of any black killers I empathize because I actually can't think of any to begin with. There really aren't any famous POC serial killers.

This list is mostly made up of white people with very few poc serial killers.
http://www.biography.com/people/groups/serial-killers

Moses Sithole is one of the killers on the list. His short biographic information does indicate that he has suffered in his life and might explain why he committed his crimes.

As far as murderers that aren't serial killers, yes I can sympathize with them. Black people do have some significant disadvantages in our society that can push them towards a crime that isn't strictly their fault.

I do empathize with Nat Turner. He's a black man in the United States and his voice is important in detailing injustice. He also most likely raped a woman and possible antagonized her after the incident, probably leading to her death. You can be critical of a person's actions while also acknowledging their humanity and the reasons for their actions.

Edit: POC serial killers in the states. Around the world there are but they clearly aren't reported on as much as killers in the United States.

[–] emilforeal 8 years ago

Off the top of my head I can't think of any black killers I empathize because I actually can't think of any to begin with. There really aren't any famous POC serial killers.

This list is mostly made up of white people with very few poc serial killers.
http://www.biography.com/people/groups/serial-killers

Moses Sithole is one of the killers on the list. His short biographic information does indicate that he has suffered in his life and might explain why he committed his crimes.

As far as murderers that aren't serial killers, yes I can sympathize with them. Black people do have some significant disadvantages in our society that can push them towards a crime that isn't strictly their fault.

I do empathize with Nat Turner. He's a black man in the United States and his voice is important in detailing injustice. He also most likely raped a woman and possible antagonized her after the incident, probably leading to her death. You can be critical of a person's actions while also acknowledging their humanity and the reasons for their actions.

Edit: POC serial killers in the states. Around the world there are but they clearly aren't reported on as much as killers in the United States.

Now do you see what you did? Cause I see it... Do you see how you threw in a red herring that is not even a fact and made the claim Nat Turner might have raped a woman, which proves you don't really empathize with him at all even though you are claiming you do....

You are exposing yourself as a fraud. It's sad that you couldn't even name one black murderer that you could empathize with, but you could empathize with a fictional character. It's just like I figured anyway, so I am not surprised.

[–] ngrome 8 years ago

Um, Nat Turner can rape a woman and I can still empathize with him. The two aren't mutually exclusive... Also, I did not claim that Nat Turner raped a woman. I said "He also most likely raped a woman and possible antagonized her after the incident, probably leading to her death." From the available facts of the incident I believe it's quite possible he raped this woman, but I never said it is an absolute fact.

I did name a black serial killer I empathize with after a little research, Moses Sithole. From the information available on him it seems like he has had a tough life. I can be empathetic towards anyone who has done something wrong in their life while, like I have been for Aileen, Jerry, Nat, Moses, and any other person who has committed any sort of crime.

You could also stop insulting me so people don't immediately dismiss your argument.

[–] emilforeal 8 years ago

Um, Nat Turner can rape a woman and I can still empathize with him. The two aren't mutually exclusive... Also, I did not claim that Nat Turner raped a woman. I said "He also most likely raped a woman and possible antagonized her after the incident, probably leading to her death." From the available facts of the incident I believe it's quite possible he raped this woman, but I never said it is an absolute fact.

I did name a black serial killer I empathize with after a little research, Moses Sithole. From the information available on him it seems like he has had a tough life. I can be empathetic towards anyone who has done something wrong in their life while, like I have been for Aileen, Jerry, Nat, Moses, and any other person who has committed any sort of crime.

You could also stop insulting me so people don't immediately dismiss your argument.

You had no idea of any black murders before today who life situations could cause for feeling of empathy and named one after 2 minutes of research and now I am suppose to believe you feel empathy for this guy in a matter of minutes. Please, spare me. Then why bring up Nat Turner raping a woman if it's not a fact? What was the reason you brought it up for? That is suspect to me and to any one seeing that red herring thrown into the mix like that. It makes your claim of empathy look suspect.

Also you already came in dismissing my argument and insulting me, you don't rememeber what you posted prior?

[–] ngrome 8 years ago

"O yea? Name a few black murderers you empathize with... Just like a figured... So long you delusional man. Get that evalve you need those meds, quickly.

You dudes can't even empathize with Nat Turner, FOH with that BS."

O yea? Name a few black murderers you empathize with... Just like a figured... So long you delusional man. Get that evalve you need those meds, quickly.

You dudes can't even empathize with Nat Turner, FOH with that BS.

You are the one who brought up Nat Turner first, that's why I mentioned him.

I have seen black murderers before but I couldn't remember any names. The most highly publicized killers are usually white people so that's why I could name a few off the top of my head. I can feel empathy for someone in a matter of minutes. Some people do have really awful life situations which can immediately make you emotional. Think about how films can make you like a character in a few hours. I'm not saying I have a deep, profound love of who he is but I can understand and sympathize with him and his life.

I never dismissed your argument or insulted you. I said your language is dangerously abelistic which it is. If you call someone a racist or sexist are you insulting them?

[–] emilforeal 8 years ago

You are the one who brought up Nat Turner first, that's why I mentioned him.

I have seen black murderers before but I couldn't remember any names. The most highly publicized killers are usually white people so that's why I could name a few off the top of my head. I can feel empathy for someone in a matter of minutes. Some people do have really awful life situations which can immediately make you emotional. Think about how films can make you like a character in a few hours. I'm not saying I have a deep, profound love of who he is but I can understand and sympathize with him and his life.

I never dismissed your argument or insulted you. I said your language is dangerously abelistic which it is. If you call someone a racist or sexist are you insulting them?

My words are dangerous according to you, because you only want and will see one side of the coin. Now what is ironic to me is that although you claim you empathize with Nat Turner, you brought up a questionable rape claim as a way to dehumanize him, which I why I said your claims of empathy are suspect. But when I did this to Jerry about the murderers he committed you were annoyed by it and said my words were abelistic, completely ignoring the fact this man is a murderer. And the funny thing about it is you don't even see or are even aware of the hypocrisy of what you did.

[–] ngrome 8 years ago

Your words are not dangerous in the sense you are describing. They are "dangerously abelistic." They encourage and perpetuate a negative mentality about how disabled and mentally ill people should be judged.

I brought up the possible rape because of the line

You dudes can't even empathize with Nat Turner

Clearly you were hinting at the current situation he is in with the media, that's why I explicitly talked about it.

I said, in response, "I do empathize with Nat Turner. He's a black man in the United States and his voice is important in detailing injustice. He also most likely raped a woman and possible antagonized her after the incident, probably leading to her death. You can be critical of a person's actions while also acknowledging their humanity and the reasons for their actions. "

The reason I said most likely is because based off the available facts and my assumptions I think he raped her. I never meant it to be taken as a fact or in a way to demonize the man.

I wasn't dehumanizing him. I did not say he deserved to be treated inhumanely because of the alleged rape, I was simply was talking about it to connect it to the idea that you can care for a person while also condemning their (alleged or factual) negative actions. I can acknowledge that Jerry is a murderer and mentally ill. I can also acknowledge that Nat Turner might be a rapist and a black man who has lived under racial oppression. Acknowledging the negative aspects or actions of a person does not dehumanize them if you can simultaneously understand their reasons for being who they are, why the acted in a certain way, and their life situation. I did not bring up the possible rape to remove Turner's humanity but to explain that I can see the good and bad in everyone person, and that I can also care for and chastise them when necessary.

[–] emilforeal 8 years ago

This is funny... I'm not taking about Nat Parker, im taking about Nat TURNER and his slave rebellion where he killed forty plus whites. Lol. The ironic thing is Nat Parker is playing Nat Turner in his new movie.

[–] ngrome 8 years ago

OH GOD. Sorry, completely my fault. Ignore that majority of my post it was based off my misunderstanding.

[–] emilforeal 8 years ago

Just for the record I enjoyed our dialogue. You were the only one who listened and even considered my points. Thank you for that.

[–] emilforeal 8 years ago

Just for the record I enjoyed our dialogue. You were the only one who listened and even considered my points. Thank you for that.

[–] ngrome 8 years ago

I did too.

[–] ngrome 8 years ago

I just made an immediate (and dumb) connection based off the current controversy with Parker. Completely my fault.

I can shift the conversation back to Turner though, who I absolutely sympathize with. My bad...

[–] emilforeal 8 years ago

[–] ngrome 8 years ago

I also do want to mention that it is absolutely fair to look at this movie through a racial equity lens. Do the women in the film like Jerry because he is a conventionally attractive white man, causing them to ignore some obvious signs? Does he get more sympathy from certain viewers because his race and eurocentric features? These are important questions to ask.

The issue is that you were outright being dismissive of Jerry's humanity/illness (I know he is a fictional character) and people's ability to empathize with him. It's important to acknowledge mental illness in crimes and how it often trumps backgrounds since it can directly impair judgement.

[–] emilforeal 8 years ago

I also do want to mention that it is absolutely fair to look at this movie through a racial equity lens. Do the women in the film like Jerry because he is a conventionally attractive white man, causing them to ignore some obvious signs? Does he get more sympathy from certain viewers because his race and eurocentric features? These are important questions to ask.

I also want to mention the fact I do appreciate the fact you recognized and accepted this fact. You are the only one in this entire thread who has done so.

[–] ssjleon 8 years ago

Damn you actually need some professional help emilforeal. You are straight up scary.

[–] pappahodge 8 years ago

I agree. I come back 3 months later, and he's still posting his bigoted views, trying to turn this thread into a race war. He just doesn't seem to grasp that anyone can feel bad for someone who is mentally ill, and sympathize with them. When Andrea Yates murdered her children in the bathtub, I was so horrified that I was disturbed for weeks. I couldn't imagine what would drive someone to such a horrific act. Then, later on it was revealed that she was mentally ill, and thought that she had failed her children, and that by removing them from the world she was saving them. The one I blame in their deaths is her husband, because he knew she was mentally ill, and yet left her alone with his children. Maybe he didn't realize the extent of her disorder, much like the therapist who failed to see Charlie's ever spiraling descent into madness, but still....
This movie isn't about race, religion, or nationality. It is about a mentally ill man who committed horrific acts because he couldn't cope with reality. In the end, he finally learned to cope with it, and ended his life the way alot of severely depressed people do. I stand by what I said before, Charlie is a sympathetic villain. Much like Samuel L Jackson was in Pulp Fiction. Most people enjoyed his and John Travolta's back and forth wordplay, but both of them murdered people in cold blood. But when you think of the movie, you think more about the McRoyal discussions, and less of their victims, right? Anyway, that's off topic, except addressing the fact that you can empathize with anyone, no matter what race, religion, gender, sexual preference, or nationality they are. If you cannot grasp this simple fact, then you are the racist.

“Out of all the things I have lost, I miss my mind the most.” ― Mark Twain

[–] lizpollitt86 8 years ago

Who is Charlie?

I feel sorry for Jerry.