If the Kennedys DID Have MM Killed, Would It Bother You? - The Kennedys (2011) Discussion

[–] rehiii76 13 years ago

I kinda highly doubt that JFK had Monroe killed. That sort of thing wasn't who he was. Even when Diem got overthrown and killed some three weeks before he got it, he was horrified and appalled at Diem's fate even though he knew it was a CIA operation to remove them, or at least in part it was. Just meaning that he did not solict to have Diem killed, it just turned out that way by those who handle things.

Now, maybe those types of people did have Monroe killed to protect their own vested interests that were subject to Kennedy remaining in power because he helped give them power in some cases. It's also likely the mob could have had Monroe killed because they could have been in line for some concessions from the Kennedy Admin. with the stuff they had on him and his womanizing. They could have potentially used this stuff to halt RFK's crusade against organized crime and to carry favor in other areas. Maybe the last thing they wanted was for Marilyn to blow everything out of the water and lose some of their own leverage. Or maybe she was as sick as everyone says and ended her own life or was just a victim of an accidental overdose. It happens.

But to answer your question----I would certainly be appalled if an elected official (any official) used his power to rub out someone who he had been given a public trust to defend, represent, and protect. It is a complete breach of contract to do so! You should not have put yourself in that position to begin with. That's something that you would think a lot of this idiot politicians would think of before they do such dumb stuff all of the time. If you are given the trust of your constituency---then act like someone who deserves it!

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[–] heyuactor 13 years ago

Yes it would bother me a lot. But if they did it the truth should come out. America could deal with it.

There were CIA-Mafia plots to kill Castro, which RFK supposedly put a stop to, but according to declassified documents detailed in Ultimate Sacrifice by Lamar Waldron, the Kennedys had their own plot to have Castro killed in a coup, so it would just be another step in the path to the 'dark side' to kill someone (MM) who was a danger to their hold on power.
Did they go over to the 'dark side'? Or maybe the Kennedys' enemies did it.
Who knows?

"Did you make coffee...? Make it!"--Cheyenne.

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[–] R_Meyer 13 years ago

The problem is there is a huge amount of evidence that the Kennedys were involved up to their eyeballs in Marilyn Monroe's death.

For me the most chilling thing I read was an interview with the LAPD detective who was supposed to be (but wasn't) the lead investigator in Monroe's death. He was barred from entering her home by federal agents. He then called the Chief of the LAPD at home to ask what he should do. The Chief told him, in so many words, leave it alone. Let them do what they have to do and then at some point we (meaning LAPD) will be allowed to do our work.

I felt sick when I read that. And trust me there is a WHOLE lot more. A WHOLE lot.

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[–] R_Meyer 13 years ago

Geezus. Looks like the Kennedys put the word out:

Nobody respond to this message. Let it go!!!

Been nice knowin' everybody,

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[–] scm1086 13 years ago

Hello R Meyer!

I would be bothered if our President (whomever it may be at the time) had anyone killed. I am sure that is not far fetched that the Kennedys had alot to do with it, because they were the type of family that would not let anyone stand in the way of their success. I wish I knew more about the Kennedys. I was not alive at the time of the assassination, so all I can do is read about it and watch documentaries. I must admit that until recently I have not done any research on MM's death and the conspiracy behind it. Do you have any suggested reading for me?

Thanks

Sarah

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[–] R_Meyer 13 years ago

Hi Sarah It's always encouraging to meet someone with an open mind!

Can I suggest a good book? The one I liked best was written by a Hollywood screenwriter. I'll have to look up the author/title. It was very detailed and the author carefully laid out the case.

The LAPD homicide detective (who was barred from the scene until the federal boys had 'processed' it} wrote a book too, I think. He was also on the talk show circuit for a while. Have to look up that one.

I'm a 60s kid and I really loved Jack and Bobby. I knew Jack was a womanizer (and Bobby too) but at first it was hard for me to believe something like this could have happened. It seemed like one of those wild "stories" you'd see in a supermarket tabloid. Only the witnesses are out there, there's a lot of serious evidence. However, the mainstream media has consistently shyed away from this story. Even a show like public television's FRONTLINE avoids this one.

It's a national tragedy.

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[–] scm1086 13 years ago

Morning R Meyer,

I have recently been doing alot of research on the Kennedy "dynasty" and I can't believe how much it interests me.

In your post you mentioned that Bobby was also a womanizer ( I knew that Jack was) but the mini-series does not portray that! They portray him as a family man who would do nothing to hurt Ethel and the kids... but in real life was he??

And what about Jack sharing a mistress with Giancana? I know they touch on it a little bit in the series, when Hoover lets the Kennedys know that he is watching them, but that definitely wouldn't be common knowledge. Would Jack really do something like that, associate himself with the mob? ... the more I read different articles and conspiriacy theories about them, the more my jaw drops!

I am very interested in getting the titles of those books! I would love to read the one by the LAPD homicide detective! That should be a good one :)

And why were the feds there to begin with? And how did they know about the death and get to the crime scene before a local PD would?

I have a lot of questions on the topic! And sometimes I can't be clear in communicating them, so sorry if I don't make sense sometimes!

Sarah

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[–] R_Meyer 13 years ago

A recent book (that uses FBI files as source material) is Marilyn Monroe: Murder By Consent, written by Dr. Jack Hattem.

This book alleges that Bobby Kennedy (having been 'passed' MM by brother Jack) was instrumental in a plot to kill her. That FBI agents were aware of his involvement because they were wire tapping him everywhere he went.

Here's some answers the author gave during a brief interview:

Caught between his family, who wanted to play down its relationship with Marilyn Monroe and the fact Monroe was threatening to shop a red diary containing ‘pillow talk’ between the pair and confidential secrets about the Cuban Missile Crisis if he ever left her, Robert Kennedy and Rat Pack member Lawford hatched a plan to visit Monroe on the day of her death. Hattem said:

“It is my guess that they had discussed with her, in no uncertain terms, that they needed for her to fake a suicide attempt. They guarantee she would be woken up, and that the fake suicide attempt would gain her so much sympathy from 20th Century Fox – who had fired her – that she would get her job back. But they threatened her somehow. She could be talked into things, because she wanted desperately to be cared about.”

At the time, Kennedy denied the visit, claiming he was in San Francisco. Which he might have got away with, except for the fact the FBI just happened to be busy tracking both Robert Kennedy and Marilyn Monroe at the same time....

...What’s most interesting, though, is Dr Hattem’s story of the conversation between Bobby Kennedy and Peter Lawford at around 4am the following morning:

“In the FBI files, the FBI is recording Kennedy saying to Peter Lawford ‘Is she dead yet?’”

Throw in the fact that all of Marilyn Monroe’s phone message disappeared, to later be discovered in the chief of police’s private files, and that her red diary could not be found – Hattem’s guess is that Kennedy had a large hand in it. He said:

“I’m certain Robert Kennedy stole it when he came by her house after she was dead.”

But if Robert Kennedy’s involvement in Marilyn Monroe’s death is rooted in fact so firmly that there’s even an FBI file on it, why hasn’t more been made of it?

“I think the reason is that everybody already believes the Kennedys killed her.”

Below is a link to a site that contains the (brief) interview with Dr. Hattem and a review of his book.

http://www.hecklerspray.com/who-killed-marilyn-monroe/200814531.php

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[–] R_Meyer 13 years ago

The book I originally read -- which I found to be absolutely shocking -- was entitled The Last Days of Marilyn Monroe written by a Hollywood screenwriter named Donald H. Wolfe.

It was very well-researched and lays out the events in full detail. Because of the many strands to be woven together the book can be a bit tedious at times, but eventually Wolfe ties it all together. Below is a description of the book:

With explosive new revelations concerning the National Security Matter" that led to the cover-up of her murder, The Last Days of Marilyn Monroe is a page-turning account of one of the most shocking crimes of the century. Donald H. Wolfe meticulously chronicles her final days, names the killer, documents the mode of death, and identifies those who orchestrated the cover-up. The pieces of the puzzle regarding Monroe's mysterious death finally lock in place with the testimony of the remaining two key witnesses who have come forward for the first time. Assistant District Attorney John Miner, present at the autopsy, reveals his secret interview with Dr. Ralph Greenson, Monroe's psychiatrist. He also explains why Marilyn Monroe was a homicide victim, and why he is calling for a new investigation and the exhumation of her body. Newly discovered CIA and FBI files document the dark secret in Marilyn's relationship with the Kennedys, the truth behind her break-up with the president, the shocking facts about the star's last weekend at Cal-Neva, and the many bizarre events that took place at Marilyn's home the day she died.

BTW, this book is available on-line through Amazon and a used copy can be purchased for as little as fifty cents.

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[–] R_Meyer 13 years ago

Here's another brief reader review of the book, The Last Days of Marilyn Monroe, also from the Amazon website.

This book begins with a spellbinding account of the considerable evidence that independent investigators have amassed over the decades following Marilyn's death. Parts two to five are devoted to the star's life, and the final chapter reconstructs the terrible events of her last day.

Wolfe presents abundant evidence that the Kennedy brothers, John and Robert, then U.S. president and attorney general, had a hand in murdering Marilyn Monroe to protect their own reputations. The Los Angeles police department responded to the Kennedys' power and influence by covering up the murder and refusing to conduct anything resembling a proper investigation.

One example of this is that none of the many witnesses was ever compelled to testify under oath. Independent investigator William Woodfield, for example, quotes key witness Dr. Ralph Greenson saying, "Look, I cannot explain myself without revealing things I don't want to reveal. You can't draw a line and say, 'I'll tell you this but I won't tell you that.' I can't talk about it because I can't tell you the whole story....Listen, talk to Bobby Kennedy."

It is an outrage that the LAPD allowed Greenson, Kennedy and others to remain silent. Thank you, Donald Wolfe, for researching Marilyn's murder and its coverup and giving us the truth.

Did Jack Clemmons (the LAPD detective Wolfe interviewed, the one who was at first barred from entering) write a book? I was under the impression he did but I can't find one.

Here's some quotes from and about Detective Clemmons on a Wikipedia page:

Jack Clemmons (2 February 1924 - 10 April 1998) was a police officer with the Los Angeles Police Department. He was the first to arrive at the death scene of Marilyn Monroe on 5 August 1962. He was with the LAPD for 20 years, from 1945 to 1965. Clemmons thought that Monroe was murdered and that her room was a staged death scene. He made some major accusations that the LAPD were involved in a cover up. He stated: "Somebody murdered her. It was an out and out case of murder!"

Clemmons claimed that when he entered Monroe's house, her housekeeper was washing the laundry, and that Monroe's room appeared as though it had been cleaned prior to his arrival: "Marilyn was lying face down in what I call the soldier's position. Her hands were by her side and her legs were stretched out perfectly straight. It was the most obviously staged death scene I have ever seen. The pill bottles on her bedside table had been arranged in neat order and the body deliberately positioned. It all looked too tidy."

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[–] scm1086 13 years ago

Thank you so much for the information!

I am absolutely thrilled about receiving my books from amazon and I can't wait to dive into it!

Do you know if there are photos of the crime scene? I am sure if they were trying to cover it up, than there might not be any photos, but that would be awesome if there were! Life.com has many many albums on MM and JFK and they even have an album of the night the MM sang Happy Birthday to JFK and some never-seen-before pics of MM when she was still trying to make a name for herself!

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[–] R_Meyer 13 years ago

Do you know if there are photos of the crime scene?

I'm sure there are. In fact the Wolfe book goes into that, I think.

One of the ambulance attendants summoned made some photos or got copies. He sold them privately. Something like that.

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[–] heyuactor 12 years ago

Dr. Greenson:

I can't talk about it because I can't tell you the whole story....Listen, talk to Bobby Kennedy.

What's 'the whole story'? If I heard that line in a movie I'd think of course the man was a part of a murder.
But it's not a movie, so I try to explain his comment (if he really said it) and the more I think about it the less I can explain it away. If they are innocent he wouldn't say talk to Bobby, now, would he? Yikes.

"Did you make coffee...? Make it!"--Cheyenne.

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[–] FreewheelinVertigo 13 years ago

Any seriously, well-researched Marilyn Monroe biography states very clearly her death was an accidental overdose. Not all famous types (well, actually, mostly none of them) die under bizarre circumstances involving all sorts of conspiracies.

Also, from what I've read MM and JFK had a one night stand, possibly a brief affair, not a massive love/sex story some "researches" claim they had. I'm also positive JFK didn't share any of his secrets in bed.

The Power of Positive Drinking

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[–] R_Meyer 13 years ago

Sunday was the fiftieth anniversary of Marilyn's death, anybody surprised the media mostly ignored it?

I found another fascinating account. A gentleman by the name of Norman Jeffries, son-in-law of Eunice Murray, Monroe's housekeeper. He was at the Monroe home to do some renovation that Saturday and spent the night. The most terrible twenty-four hours he ever experienced, he said.

He was there when Bobby Kennedy (Robert) And Peter Lawford arrived on Saturday afternoon. "I was there in the living room with Eunice when Marilyn died, and after that all hell broke loose," Jefferies stated.

http://www.angelfire.com/stars/mmgoddess/JEFFERIES.html

Marilyn’s ex-husband, Joe DiMaggio, said bitterly that ‘Marilyn wasn’t killed by Hollywood – she was killed by her friends.’ When introduced to Bobby at a baseball match in 1965, Joe stepped back and declined to shake his hand.

http://www.immortalmarilyn.com/TwilightBobbyPage2.html

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[–] patronizing_bunnyrabbits 12 years ago

Are you seriously asking whether finding out a President & Attorney General are murderers would bother us & expecting an answer other than 'Yes?'

"Sacred cows make the best hamburger."

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[–] R_Meyer 12 years ago

Are you seriously asking whether finding out a President & Attorney General are murderers would bother us & expecting an answer other than 'Yes?'

Yes I am asking that question seriously.

The fact of the matter is, for a number of years after Marilyn Monroe died her death was regarded as a suicide. There wasn't one whisper that it was anything else.

Gradually it did begin to leak out. Although the first time I heard that Robert Kennedy might've set up Monroe's fake suicide to protect his brother, the President, I thought it sounded completely ridiculous. I don't remember if I laughed or got angry. But I sure didn't take it seriously.

Then it came out that RFK had been to her house that day. That JFK had indeed been having a sexual affair with MM. (That was why his pals had her show up unexpectedly at Madision Square Garden unexpectedly to croon, Happy Birthday Mr. President. The audience roared but few knew the "real" joke.)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w3IzpazVl-I

Read back in the thread if you want details -- I'm not going to repeat it all -- but by the Watergate era the whole story finally came out. In books, magazine articles, radio talk shows.

But NOT on network TV.

So in answer to your question, Am I seriously asking whether finding out a President & Attorney General are murderers would bother people? I'm asking why finding out this President and his Attorney-General were almost certainly involved in a murder conspiracy has never created the kind of public uproar you'd expect.

I'm asking the Kennedy fans, is it that you don't believe it? Or you just don't care?

Yes patronizing bunnyrabbits, it's a serious question.

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[–] patronizing_bunnyrabbits 12 years ago

JFK having an affair with her & RFK visiting her house the day of her death does not equal murder conspiracy. That is one of the most flagrant leaps of logic I've seen in a long time. Kris Kardashian saw Nicole Brown Simpson the day of her death. She didn't kill her.

Your response to my question has very little to do with what I find absurd about your initial question. I'm fully aware of the theories & how they arose. Asking whether or not we think it's true is very, very different from whether or not it would bother us to find out someone is a murderer. I think most people who aren't psychopaths are bothered to find out that people are murderers.

"Sacred cows make the best hamburger."

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[–] R_Meyer 12 years ago

Well, patronizing bunnyrabbits, you are certainly entitled to your opinion.

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[–] still_brooke1 12 years ago

I read a book by the last man she was married to Robert something and I'm sure it was biased. However, I do believe that Bobby probably paid some mobster he helped to have her killed. As much as she loved herself I doubt that she would've taken that much drugs alone. I think she may have took her sleeping pills and someone slipped in and drugged her drink. There's so many questionable events about her death, her house keeper, etc...

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[–] R_Meyer 12 years ago

I do believe that Bobby probably paid some mobster he helped to have her killed. As much as she loved herself I doubt that she would've taken that much drugs alone.

If you read back in this thread or Google "Marilyn Monroe Suicide" you'll find there are some pretty credible theories as to what took place (and how) and they don't involve mobsters.

In fact, at least one pathologist said, given the amount of the drugs in her system, it would not have been possible for Monroe to have taken that amount of drugs all by herself. She would've have already been unconscious.

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[–] BrandiStarBright 10 years ago

Yes it would bother me. It would show thst politicians would do anything to keep their reputation. I dont know if JFK put a hit out, but msybe someone close. Heard she had an affair with Bobby too.

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