MovieChat Forums > The Master (2012) Discussion > 'Slow Boat to China' and homosexual over...

'Slow Boat to China' and homosexual overtones...

posted 10 years ago by strikefire83
29 replies | jump to latest

So I love this movie. I know a lot of people didn't, and that's fine, but if you want to talk about that there are plenty of other threads on this board.

My question, specifically, was about that whole second to last scene where PSH sings the aforementioned song to Freddy and gives him that really painful, longing look. Up until this point, when I first saw the film, I didn't really get a gay vibe from PSH's character...their relationship seemed to be more about power and control. But this scene, the song, compounded by the past life story of two men working closely together, and the juxtaposition of Freddy going out a *beep* that chubby English girl right afterward in the final scene. It just made me feel that although Freddy really likes giving up control to PSH, but he likes women more and feels longing for the girl he left behind before the war.

Anyhow, maybe I'm reading into things too much.

[–] TheChelseaDagger 10 years ago

I don't think it is that much of a stretch, I have read that somewhere else too. I never got that feeling watching that scene. Dodd is a lot of talk, both in his lectures on The Cause, and the fact that he believes that he is a man above beasts (like Freddie). We see him revert back to that beast state several times when around Freddie. He has that longing look, i believe, because he doesn't want to lose that part of him and just be a puppet to Peggy, the super ego.

"*beep* it Dude, lets go bowling"

[–] dustypistol 10 years ago

Freddy, Dodd and Peggy as the id, the ego and superego - that's a great metaphor!! Didn't think of it before but it really seems to fit.

[–] pwdmailalerts 8 years ago

Boy oh Boy ... yes...

... and that's another similarity to 2001: AS Odyssey

Id - Basic reactions (animal instincts)
Ego - Awareness of Id
SuperEgo - Proactive challenging Id behaviors ... working toward Self-Actualization (Maslow)

[–] blackhawk546 10 years ago

I totally agree. After watching this for the 3rd time it makes sense that he was gay. Calling Freddy at the theater, saying "I miss you" and yeah the last scene really indicates that it wasn't just friendship he actually wanted to be with Freddy. I'm not sure why I didn't catch on to that before..

[–] BrendanFrye 10 years ago

well, the phone call was a dream, so...

[–] jackory69 9 years ago

I think that whole telephone call was part of a dream sequence and Dodd never asked him to come back. I mean, how did Dodd know where Freddy was? It's not as if he told them he was leaving and left a number where he could be reached. He wasn't staying with family who could have relayed a message. How could Dodd have known that Freddy was going to be at that particular theater at that particular time? The odds seem to be stacked against it being anything but a dream. The cinematography suggests it and so does the fact that Freddy was asleep when he "received the call".

[–] trysmiling1 9 years ago

Freddie said to PSH,"You said, in my dream, that you remembered where we met." Also, Freddie kept asking PSH how he found him to which he replied, "We are tied together." So, it had it be a dream. I missed the homosexual overtones, which could explain why I was confused as to why Freddie cried when PSH sang, "Slow Boat to China" to him.

[–] Day_ImFivebyFive 8 years ago

Oh please. People have started to confuse genuine emotion and meanings for gay overtones. Saying "I miss you" is no reason to assume he was gay.

The slow boat song scene was just showing that Dodd really liked Freddie. Dodd is just clingy.

[–] goatboy969 10 years ago

My own theory is that if you see homosexual overtones in that scene you must be gay.

[–] jmgrc0 10 years ago

Hahaha

[–] dustypistol 10 years ago

Hahaha troll

[–] EurasianEyes 9 years ago

lol...I only saw friendship so i'm with you :)

[–] leo-hork-na 9 years ago

haha ikr, some people

[–] kmags84 10 years ago

I wont say its a stretch... Even the scene when there is a discussion as to why Freddie is still here if he's "Past Help"... Peggy looks at Lancaster in a VERY strange way. Almost as if SHE see's it... I look at that scene in retrospect and the scene when she gives him a Hand Job. Maybe its just that. Freddie brings out the "Animal" so to say, in Lancaster. I think she would fear both if dedicated to The Cause. So, its hard to pinpoint but i wouldn't call it too far fetched

[–] PuddinTaine 10 years ago

It's really sad that today when films feature emotional relationships between males it's automatically assumed to be gay.

How do you like them apples?

[–] Barbed_Wire_Strawberry 10 years ago

Oh come on, do you know anything about L ron?

It's not gay from FREDDIE'S end..

Buy The Ticket, Take The Ride

[–] Stirchley 10 years ago

chubby English girl ... in the final scene

I am going to barf if I read one more comment about that poor girl's weight. I saw the movie yesterday and she is a perfectly normal weight. Sad to think that a woman must be skeletal to look all right these days in the movies.

[–] dustypistol 10 years ago

No comments about Philip Seymour Hoffman's weight, though, of course. It's only women that are forced to stand in front of judge, jury and executioner regarding their weight every time they leave the house or have their pictures taken.

She wasn't chubby at all, in fact if you saw her walking down the street you would just see a gorgeous woman. So many actresses are so much thinner than the average female weight that if you saw one walking down the street you would be horrified and wonder what was wrong with her.

Or you'd just assume she had an eating disorder. And remember, the camera adds ten pounds. I do not envy women working as models or actresses because I wouldn't want to be scrutinized and criticized in that way. It's too bad there's such narrow stick to measure yourself against in order to be perceived as less than "overweight" as a woman.

The funny thing is usually the criticism is coming from some fat, revolting man who could never in a million years get a woman like her into bed. Get real, fellas. :)

[–] Walt-Most 10 years ago

I just finished watching it for the first time. It was nice to see a normal-sized woman for a change in a sex scene. I also liked that he had women of various ages and states of fitness in the "Roving" scene.

*****
We are doomed.

[–] userrrrr 10 years ago

she is a perfectly normal weight.

uh, no, she is a whale.

🐙

[–] xreesex 10 years ago

Says the virgin.

Not only is she normal weight (which you can see when she's straight up on top of Freddie; her body was bent and in an extremely unflattering for anyone with an ounce of body fat position), but she was absolutely adorably British.

[–] theauxphou 9 years ago

She might be perfectly normal weight, but that doesn't necessarily mean she cannot be chubby. Because she was chubby, even if a bit.

[–] JusFunnyLookin 10 years ago

There's definitely something there. I think it was on Marc Maron's podcast that PTA himself described the film as a love story between two people that know they can never be together. He also labelled the 'slow boat to China' scene as the film's most important.

[–] Barbed_Wire_Strawberry 10 years ago

I think he said the most important scene was when they first meet on the boat.

Buy The Ticket, Take The Ride

[–] JusFunnyLookin 10 years ago

You got me doubting myself but I just listened back to check, he said the 'slow boat' scene. I think Marc might have thought he meant the scene when they're on the boat, though.
https://youtu.be/F59SVVlPdy4?t=1h25m (it's around 1:25:00 mark if the link doesn't work properly)

I think both scenes support the OP's ideas

[–] Barbed_Wire_Strawberry 10 years ago

Right you are, sir. Though at least both scenes mirror each other.

Buy The Ticket, Take The Ride

[–] ChrisThurston 10 years ago

I had the same thoughts when watching that scene. And when Freddy then goes and sleep with the woman and starts asking the same questions PSH's character asked in the processing scene on the boat then it made me wonder if this was indicating that something sexual had happened in that scene.

As though the alcohol was a metaphor for something sexual. It's also after the scene where Freddy imagines everyone naked that Amy Adam's character (who is staring at Freddy who is looking longingly at PSH's character) goes into the bathroom to give PSH some hand relief and makes him promise to not take any of "That boy's hooch" right after she has said he can do what he wants so long as she doesn't hear about it.

More likely she might have felt that him singing and dancing while drunk made him seem less authoritative. It's a nice thought experiment but while I also had the same questions about homoeroticism between the characters I think it was PSH's way of saying that he cared deeply for him and it was too bad their close relationship was ending.

[–] dsgoorevitch 9 years ago

I don't think you're reading too much if it takes you somewhere, but I feel that the two are two sides of the same man. The whole movie is like a mirror. "Split Saber," the title of "book two" is no accident. I love this movie too.