MovieChat Forums > Café de Flore (2011) Discussion > You have all got it wrong SPOILERS!!!...

You have all got it wrong SPOILERS!!!!

posted 12 years ago by cornelia123
25 replies | jump to latest

Apologies for this long post, but after seeing this film a few times, please bear with me as I think you have got it all wrong! The film isn't as simple as it seems.......:

The film is NOT about 'love' in a past life, etc. The film is about COPING MECHANISMS, what people do to cope in order to go on living. Carole's coping mechanism is to believe in an afterlife, dreams, etc. Therefore, supposedly many years ago she had observed the blurry figure a woman and one (or two) children in front of Notredame Cathedral in Paris. This photo was taken by Antoine's parents on a trip to Paris all those years ago and was hanging in their home, where a young Carol spotted it and unconciously 'saved' it in her memory.

Years later, out of the blue her true love Antoine bumps into Rose in a party and falls hard for her. Carol notices and acknowledges she saw it 'happening'. She takes note how Antoine goes and asks the DJ what song they are playing, which is 'Cafe de Flore'. For months afterwards, she observes how Antoine keeps playing that song (the scene in the car), and pertinently, the daughter says it's better than the 'It's youuuuu' song (which is actually a song by Sigur Ros. If you look at the video of this song by Sigur Ros you see that it is of some Down Syndrome children dressed as Angels (they are meant to represent angels in the video). One imagines somehow this is saved in Carole's brain too. Why? In case she NEEDS to use it later on. Already she is starting to build a COPING MECHANISM around her, building it up little by little.

Months after, Antoine has left her and is now living with Rose, the woman who has mesmerised him and who he now considers true or if possible second true love (notice how the Sigur Ros song with the 'It's Youoooo' lyrics goes up a notch in the scene where he finally meets her at the AA Meeting, as she's walking up to him with her hand outstretched?). From the moment he leaves Carole, she is haviing strange dreams and sleep walking. She sees a boy in the back of the car .....The Parallel story of Jacqueline and Laurent in Paris is all her imagination you see. Hence the parallel story is so 'unrealistic', as if a woman who only works 3 times a week washing hair in her neighbour's hairdresser could afford to pay for all those classes she has him take, AND the rent. Jacqueline seems to be PERFECT, the perfect mother, but perhaps a bit too strict with Laurent? This is Carole, in her uncouncious mind, preparing the ground for what is to come.

On the outside, Carole is all calm personified and so increcibly civilised, but on the inside she is DYING, truly traumatised (as anyone would be). When the daughters see her SILENT SCREAM whilst she is sleepwalking, they are truly shocked and worried. This is a woman who COULD kill herself, such is her anguish. Hence the older daughter tells her dad to go to her mums house to pick up something she had forgotten to take with her.....(she's worried about her, as she will now be on her own as it's Antoine's turn to have the girls over).

Then Antoine tells Carole, out of the blue, that he and Rose are getting married. You see Carole smiling, waving good bye to him as she drives off, Pretending everthing is fine......She really IS losiing him forever, so she drives and drives, and sees the flicker of the child behind the car again(Laurent but soon to be Antoine in her mind). She goes to the clairvoyant and the clairvoyant tells her what she wants to hear, in fact she doesn't even listen to what she says, in her head she KNOWS what it is that she NEEDS to know in order to forgive Antoine and to get on with her life. However, the clairvoyant also does a silent scream.....she is portraying what she psychically is feeling from Carole.....utter anguish....and Carole is horrified. So immediately she makes up the story (the Paris one) where in a past life she was Jacqueline, dumped by a callous unloving husband to their Down Syndrom child. She thinks that she was the good mother that loved her son so much, maybe too much, and then couldn't cope with his attachment to another little girl that she went and did something crazy and killed the three of them (Carole/Jacqueline, Antoine/Laurent, Rose/Vero) in a terrible suicidal/murderous car crash (also instigated by her feeling she had no way out as Laurent had been told not to go back to the nice school etc and Vero was going to go to a 'special' school, which she was dead against).......She, modern day Montreal soon to be ex-wife of who she thought was her true love, Antoine, HAS to believe all this, otherwise she would just go and kill herself because Antoine was the world to her, thought he felt the same (remember, 'your father and me, it's written in the stars' comment when the older daughter remarks he's smelling nice after as he leaves the house, presumably to his AA meeting). So Carole drives to Antoine after having a 'nightmare', (her mind is helping her heal herself, do you see), and she tells him to forgive her, and he tells her crying to 'no, forgive ME'. She embraces Rose too. She feels she had killed them, seperated them in a past life, they were just poor little Down Syndrome children, and she feels awful about it. This though is not what really happened, it's all in her head. However, Carole has now LET GO of Antoine and can no go on living.....without him.

The last scenes you see she has moved out into a roof -flat, she is 'open' now to new experiences, open sky, a new page has been turned. She attends Antoine and Rose's engagement party (or is it wedding), and his father is happy and hugs her, everyone is happy. As you can see, CAROLE has made everyone happy, her attitude has, her being so forgiving, giving them her blessing. The only way she COULD forgive was to picture herself as the 'bad guy in a past life', so to speak, the over-stressed loving mother who 'snapped'. Obviously, the woman is a saint for being so forgiving, but it's part of her 'new age' style coping mechanism.

Antoine's coping mechanism was music and alcohol.
Rose's was drugs and alcohol (and perhaps sex).
Carole's was 'alternative beliefs', etc. Past lives, etc. (New Age)

Once I realised it was all in Carole's head (hence the last frame in the film is of the camera zooming into the blurry picture of the Cathedral with these figures waving at the tourist boat).....for the audience to realise that a young Carole had seen that photo and memorised it, and took it out of her unconcious when she most needed it. Indeed, there is a photo of Young Carole and Young Antoine holding up an album cover and in the back ground wall is the Cathedral photograph). She needed those blurry figures in the photo, and her New Age beliefs, to let Antoine go and let him be happy, and for her not to kill herself, for her to be ABLE to understand why Antoine would fall for another woman. The truth is that it seemed to me that Antoine and Rose's relationship was just very sexual, and who was to say they would have actually lasted after the initial excitement, as Carole's friend believed. I also really doubted that he wouldn't have been unfaithfull a million times, considering his line of work as DJ's are famous for putting it about. Carole's attitude at first was as if she didn't mind 'flings', hence that's why it may explain why she thought he would come back to her, as if he had slept around before. The way he looked at Rose when he first saw her, with his wife there and everything, was just so out of order, so sleazy, although he was PRETENDING not to like Rose, then going to the DJ to ask for the name of the song he was playing....well, to me it was obvious the guy had put it about quite a bit....although maybe in his head he thought he was still inlove with Carole (before Rose came along, of course).

There was also a MASSIVE clue the director gave us that it was all in Carole's head. The Cafe de Flore song that is played througout (in different modes, the accordion version, the modern funky version etc), was not recorded until much later. If you observe, in the Paris story there is a scene or two where you see the Cafe De Flore LP by Matthew Herbert (Doctor Rokkit)......this is exactly the same LP that you briefly see once in Antoine's collection (ie, Modern Montreal)......BUT the LP wasn't even recorded until the the 90s or 2000s or so, which does not 'add up' time wise to the 'past life' story as the Paris story must have been set in the 50s or at most the early 60s. The director, who was a DJ himself in the past, and who is reknown for his love of music, would NOT have than that mistake, unless it was on purpose: a 'clue' to the audience. I for one love that he hasn't spelled it all out.

Finally, it seems I am in the right as even the Director himself has said it is all in Carole's head. I just found this interview:

http://www.smh.com.au/entertainment/movies/heart-and-soul-20120419-1x8 5k.html

BTW, I absolutely LOVED the film.....poor Carole though! I guess better that (her tricking herself) than drugs and alcohol though! The only problem I had with the film was that I didn't think that Young Antoine (which was played by the Director's son, who was also in Crazy) looked anything like Older Antoine. All the actors were excellent though, so all is forgiven!

Once more, sorry for the long post. I suggest you need to see this film at least 2 or 3 times to really 'get' it. There are so many details you ignore first time around.

[–] Imortala 12 years ago

Hi there! I love your post, loved the movie as well, specially cinematography, editing, soundtrack...
I still want to hear your explanation about the scenes with Antoine in airplane and hotel room when he says in english "what the hell.. am i doing here" (or something like that, saw it more than a week ago, can't remember exactly) and that shot with the sky and the plane towards the sun, which is also the final scene on the dvd i saw, right after the credits with the photo of young Carole and Antoine zooming on the cathedral. So, on my dvd, in this final scene, the plane explodes, and a fraction of second later, screen goes black, and final credits roll.
Respecting things in your post, i thought myself that those scenes may be somehow the way Antoine is cooping with he's feelings, torned between Carole and Rose? This is what is happening in Antoine's head? Because we see him talking with his therapist about some dark thoughts he has, wishing to die. Or, is this still in Carole's head, wishing that he feels bad about living her, imagine his plane crashing and him dead, so she could forgive him that way...?
So what are you thoughts about that? Why do you think the plane exploding scene was the final one?

[–] cornelia123 12 years ago

Hi Imortala - Thanks for loving my post!!!

The airplane scenes - You are right, at the beginning of the film you can hear someone sleeping (Carole) and then you see the airplane heading towards the sun, just about to 'hit' it. Or maybe it's viceversa, you see the airplane first and then the 'sleeper'. A couple of more times you see that airplane again heading towards the sun, and finally at the end of the film, there is a last shot of it and it seems to finally 'hit' the sun. What's my interpretation? First let me say that in the scene you mention where he is talking to his psychologist, Antoine is telling him that although he is really happy now with Rose, he doesn't know why he feels so bad, like a total sh-t, because hey, how can you have two true loves? And how can he do that to his first one, and his family? The psychologist gives him a worried look and Antoine replies 'Relax, when I die it will be in a planecrash' (or something like that) because he catches so many of them for his DJ work. What he means is relax, that HE WON'T COMMIT SUICIDE, which the psychologist was fearing because he seemed so down.

Some people seem to think that the fact that he said that means that he dies in the end in a planecrash because of the plane heading towards the sun scene. But how can that be? Seriously think about it? How can an airplane collide with the sun? IMPOSSIBLE. Therefore the image must be symbolic.

Because of the beginning of the film, as it starts with Carole in a deep sleep, could it be that she is actually dreaming this? I think the image of the plane is tied in with Carole, and there are 3 possible meanings here (imo):

1. We know Carole delves into alternative beliefs (as per the books by her bed), and maybe her unconcious is already preparing her for the Paris car crash....she knows something is heading towards 'collision', ie, her belief that Antoine WAS her true love and maybe she's starting to think deep down that maybe he's not coming back.

2. This is the most pertinent meaning imo: Because of her alternative beliefs (in afterlife, reincarnation etc) she truly believed that Antoine and her were 'written in the stars', ie, they were destined for eachother. The were COMPLETE. Carole is a very spiritual person (you can see she is a very ZEN person, very calm, very softly spoken, very 'positive', very 'there must be a reason') amd therefore she knows all about 'twin flames'. Actually now I remember the scene where the medium tells that when you meet your twin flame you are on your way to unity, I think she says 'Once you have found your twin flame, your (spiritual) journey stops there, you don't reincarnate anymore'. This is what horrified Carole, that her journey will continue, whilst Rose's and Antoine's has come to an end, no more reincarnations. Hence, the plane (Antoine) has found his flame/sun (Rose), hence the collision at the end, hence no more reincarnation. Remember, the Sun is a life force, it gives us 'light', hence the twin flames represented by the plane, (the journey), collide with their life source. End of SPIRITUAL journey. They have found eachother and will have a fulfilled LAST life together then die and enter what? Nirvana I guess. Maybe they will be at one with the Sun (with the source of life). However, Carole's journey will continue.

3. Taking this further, you can also argue that the plane is also the spritual journey of Carole. This has nothing to do with twin flames. This has to do with her, and she has reached such a superior state of spirituality, with her being so forgiviing, so humble (thinking it was her fault), that maybe Carole has also completed her spiritual journey, she won't need a 'twin flame', she has surpassed that all on her own. She is the perfect example of LOVE in its true meaning. All these 'reincarnation' beliefs are Carole of course.

4. If we consider the image as having nothing to do with Carole, but just with LOVE, well it could mean that they have ALL reached completion and happiness.

So no, I don't think the plane/sun image has to do with Carole wishing Antoine's dead (the opposite, she's devastated that he will not reincarnate again as she think she will), ad I also don't think it's in Antoine's head. I think it all has to do with Carole and who spiritual belief in reaching completion (as twin flames, as an individual perhaps).

Just remember, IT'S 100% IMPOSSIBLE FOR AN AIRPLANE TO CRASH INTO THE SUN, so you may come up with your own metaphor of what that image may represent and I'm sure it will be just as valid as mine.

I still want to hear your explanation about the scenes with Antoine in airplane and hotel room when he says in english "what the hell.. am i doing here" (or something like that, saw it more than a week ago, can't remember exactly)

Okay....well he says this in his hotel room in London, to a 'recorder'....and then you hear it in his DJ set that evening....'What the f-ck am I doing here?'. So he said that for his DJ set. It's great you have the DVD, you can replay it again and see for yourself. Of course, he also probably DID think what the f-ck was he doing there, when he could be home with the woman he was crazy for, Rose. So maybe he was being ironic by recording that into his DJ set?

Can't wait for the DVD to come out here in the UK. I just absolutely LOVE this film, and the way Jean-Marc Vallee (the director) has used music to highlight the feelings of the characters is just wonderful. I have to say, I really liked Carole and Antoine, and if he would have portrayed more scenes about their lovestory, I think the audience would have very little sympathy with the Rose and Antoine lovestory. I love the scene where he is chasing her with shaving cream on his face, trying to get some on her and she is screaming....and that must have been not long before he fell for Rose. Hence the 'tragedy' of Carole losing her true love OUT OF THE BLUE. Hence her silent anguish, her reaction....

I guess the film is about coping mechanisms, but also about different types of love. How love can be truly beautiful, up-lifting, but also incredibly destructive, tragic, painful. Like I said, Carole was a 'saint'.

Sorry for the long post again!!!!!

[–] MrAgmoore 12 years ago

You missed the whole point of the movie. It's about the causality of one's actions. Karma. Tibetan Buddhism.

The movie is actually true - we tend to rebirth into the same family. I know a lot about my past lives: how many; gender; occupation; what I did and how it affects my present life.

If you want to understand the movie, find a reputable akashic record reader and find out if the people around you were related in a past life.

[–] cornelia123 12 years ago

MrAgmoore, you are the one who missed the whole point of the movie. You seem to think you even know better than the Director what it's about. I suggest you read some interviews with him about this film, as per my original post.

[–] canadamelody 10 years ago

You should get either the CANADIAN BLURAY( AREA A CODED)
or the US not the Canadian R1 DVD....with so much music on the
soundtrack you really don't want the PAL speed up !

[–] BlueMountain (9) 3 months ago

"Just remember, IT'S 100% IMPOSSIBLE FOR AN AIRPLANE TO CRASH INTO THE SUN"
Actually, if you watch closely, it explodes before hitting anything.
The meaning of this recurrent scene still puzzles me.

[–] jkhaner 12 years ago

terrific post! very interesting. thanks.

[–] Lifebloom 12 years ago

WOW

can u show me interview where director is talking about it?

I thought it was about reincarnation and soul mate.

[–] Emily307 12 years ago

Your theory is very interesting, I like it. However, I don't see the director saying anything like that in the interview you linked. Is it maybe the wrong one? Or did I miss it?

[–] cornelia123 10 years ago

For those who asked where did the director say that Carole invented the Paris story, although I even left the link in my Original Post....I have cut and pasted his words:

''I wanted to make an epic with an intimate feel, blended with some supernatural horror elements,'' says the 49-year-old, who directed The Young Victoria, starring Emily Blunt, in 2009. ''Ghosts, or spirits, or whatever. That's why this girl [Carole, played by Helene Florent] comes to believe in past lives to move on and be at peace with herself.''

[–] cornelia123 9 years ago

I have found a better interview:

Read the Director/scriptwriter's following interview with Vancouver based culture paper published on 3 March 2012 where Jean Marc Vallee is much more clear on the 'past live' aspect of the film vs. psychological necessity:

http://www.thesnipenews.com/movies/interview-cafe-de-flore-director-jean-marc-vallee/

Rachel Fox: The film plays with all kinds of notions about past lives and the memories from them. Do you believe in reincarnation?

Jean Marc Vallee: It’s not a part of my life. For the duration of the film I had to be aware, to do my research. I think it’s a beautiful theory but it’s not a part of my life. But, at the same time I didn’t make a film about that.

A character in the film is using this to find an explanation. I am not trying to say, “This is me, this is what I believe and I want you to believe in this” – it’s not that at all. It’s one character and she goes there. You know why she goes there? Because she’s suffering. And when you suffer, you try to understand. And since she doesn’t find any answers with the rational thing she goes into the irrational.

RF: The final shot of the film is this very slow zoom into an old black and white photo within another photo. It’s very much like The Shining. Was that on purpose?

JMV: I know, of course, it looks like The Shining. When I finished writing it I put the period on the paper and thought that everyone’s going to think that. But I thought then, “*beep* it,” because it’s not exactly like The Shining, which was not a film about past lives but a *beep* spooky thing. In this case it was a picture taken by the father of Antoine many years before in Paris and it’s so out of focus – what I like about it is there’s two ways or more to explain the film.

For the people who would like to believe in Carole’s theory of past lives and reincarnation – well there you go, you got your answer if you want to go there. But it’s [the picture] so out of focus, it could be anything; it could be a rock, it could be a tree. There are some keys in the film, where I say my explanation of this is from Carole’s brain and imagination.

One key that tells that is the record [The Matthew Herbert Big Band‘s “Café de Flore”] from the ’60s – this can only come from Carole’s imagination. This record is a fabrication, the song was created in 2001. It’s an anachronism. It’s impossible. That’s how I wrote it. But I’d like the audience to choose their own thing. I am not imposing my ideas onto them.

[–] bortunv 12 years ago

Your hermeneutic endeavour is really impressive. Congratulations!
However, I would say that your interpretation is equally plausible with the common one that Carole actually was Jacqueline in a past life, even though I believe yours is more interesting.

Anyway, I was quite annoyed by Antoine's easiness in leaving Carole, the woman he loved and mother of his children, just because he felt attracted by a rather ordinary woman. I suppose that one should leave his wife or husband when she or he doesn't make one happy anymore, which didn't seem to be the case with Carole and Antoine.

[–] Andrew_P 9 years ago

I also wondered about how easily Antoine left Carole (though he felt lots of anguish about it later), but I guess the whole going through AA with Rose could have been a strong bonding experience. Maybe the new woman meant a new - post-alcoholic - life for him?

[–] cornelia123 9 years ago

Yes, Antoine and Rose going through AA together would have been a very strong bonding experience, but the attraction between them was instant from the moment they saw eachother months before, so it was also a chemical reaction between them, you know, love at first sight. But I agree that Rose would represent a post-alcoholic life for him, although he did attend AA BEFORE getting together with Rose.

(I personally think this is a very personal film for the director who had been married many years, had 2 kids and then suddenly left his wife for a new woman, and shortly afterwards he made Cafe de Flore. I think with this film, he is trying to explain to his wife and children and himself and his new love, what happened to him. It's an ode and apology to his old love (hence the empathy with Carole's characterisation), and at the same time an ode to his new love. This is not the first or last time that a man (or woman) have left their great love who has been with them for many years, who they grew up with, for a new love who they have recently just met....call it 'midlife crisis', call it 'love at first sight', call it 'finding a new love as an EXCUSE to leave the old one'... 

This film has a very empathetic view on being in love and the joy (when you are corresponded) and devastation (when you are no longer corresponded) that it brings to those lucky or unfortunate to feel its full effects.

[–] selitektay 11 years ago

Very interesting post. It is good movie but your comment turns out the movie more interesting to me. I am going to watching the movie again.

[–] esmeralda-loves-jai 11 years ago

I just watched the movie, and came here to see what people had to say about its thematic content.

Cornelia123, I enjoyed your analysis of the movie and your explanation of the very last scene of the movie totally resonated with me.

Thank you!! Thank you!!

--------------------------
There's only one instant, and it's right now. And it's eternity.

- Waking Life

[–] 11 years ago

[deleted]

[–] cornelia123 10 years ago

A much belated ...thank you....to everyone who has posted!

[–] canadamelody 10 years ago

I think you are reading too much into the 90s produced album it was designed to make believe it was a 60s album. Simply a piece of fiction that feels authentic.
An in joke like the fake classical composer in Double Life of Veronique and 3 Colours (note the little girl is called Veronique !). This movie takes many details from Double Life and 3 Colours Blue.

[–] cornelia123 9 years ago

Here's an excerpt of the Director/scriptwriter's interview with Vancouver based culture paper published on 3 March 2012 where Jean Marc Vallee is much more clear on the 'past live' aspect of the film vs. psychological necessity and the clues he gives to the audience to figure it out:

http://www.thesnipenews.com/movies/interview-cafe-de-flore-director-jean-marc-vallee/

Rachel Fox: The film plays with all kinds of notions about past lives and the memories from them. Do you believe in reincarnation?

Jean Marc Vallee: It’s not a part of my life. For the duration of the film I had to be aware, to do my research. I think it’s a beautiful theory but it’s not a part of my life. But, at the same time I didn’t make a film about that.

A character in the film is using this to find an explanation. I am not trying to say, “This is me, this is what I believe and I want you to believe in this” – it’s not that at all. It’s one character and she goes there. You know why she goes there? Because she’s suffering. And when you suffer, you try to understand. And since she doesn’t find any answers with the rational thing she goes into the irrational.

RF: The final shot of the film is this very slow zoom into an old black and white photo within another photo. It’s very much like The Shining. Was that on purpose?

JMV: I know, of course, it looks like The Shining. When I finished writing it I put the period on the paper and thought that everyone’s going to think that. But I thought then, “*beep* it,” because it’s not exactly like The Shining, which was not a film about past lives but a *beep* spooky thing. In this case it was a picture taken by the father of Antoine many years before in Paris and it’s so out of focus – what I like about it is there’s two ways or more to explain the film.

For the people who would like to believe in Carole’s theory of past lives and reincarnation – well there you go, you got your answer if you want to go there. But it’s [the picture] so out of focus, it could be anything; it could be a rock, it could be a tree. There are some keys in the film, where I say my explanation of this is from Carole’s brain and imagination.

One key that tells that is the record [The Matthew Herbert Big Band‘s “Café de Flore”] from the ’60s – this can only come from Carole’s imagination. This record is a fabrication, the song was created in 2001. It’s an anachronism. It’s impossible. That’s how I wrote it. But I’d like the audience to choose their own thing. I am not imposing my ideas onto them.

So he's fine with the audience seeing it all as a past lives thing, BUT he has given clear CLUES that it's all in Carole's mind, out of necessity for her to be able to carry on, as I explain in my original post, and one of those clues is the Cafe de Flore record in the Paris 60s story, when it was actually created in 2001. Anyone who knows anything about Jean Marc Vallee, himself an ex DJ and music 'fanatic' would NEVER have made that mistake unless it was deliberate.