You know...as much as you guys see them dissing the 80's series...

I don't think the movie did that at all.

Um... There is a difference between the two Donnies. Laird intentionally made the 2k3 Donny into someone more into the real world. A type where he isn't perfect but he comes through eventually. He is more balanced of a fighter/genious than the 80s version.

As for 80's Leo... are you serious!?! They made him into a joke in this version.

As for confidence, yes they had, but sadly it was on the wrong levels because they are always so cheery that they don't know the real world like the 2k3 turtles. They were about to be finished by Hun's men for crying out loud.

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Yes, the writers went to great lengths to show that the 80s turtles were inferior to the TMNT turtles. The TMNT turtles were shown as more adept crime fighters and much better ninjas whereas the 80's turtles were shown to be more of a bumbling, goofy sort.

Worst sins-

Blackheart hit the nail on the head... Hun's men can easily defeat and trap the 80's turtles?? Impossible.

The 80s turtles constantly laugh at their own jokes... constantly. I'm not saying it never happened, but never even close to as frequently as portrayed in Turtles Forever. Maybe they'd do it occasionally at the end of an episode.

Leonardo is lacking in the role of leader. He's made to be a clone of Michelangelo.

The 80s turtles seem to rarely get serious, even in the face of universe-ending threats.

The 80s turtles are cowards. They flee from the mirage turtles and they cry, shiver and hug the current Raph during the finale. This is inexcusable. Yes, the writers may want to poke some fun at the silliness of the old show, which is fine, but the turtles have always been composed of strength and courage.

That being said- I think Mike and Herald are on to something. I still enjoyed the movie, and the 80s turtles was the reason why. They brought life and character to the screen. They brought a vibrant visual dynamic and a sense of fun. Raph, Mike, and Donatello, aside for a few of the gaffs mentioned above, were right on the money. The current lot seemed so heavy handed and dull in comparison- ESPECIALLY Raphael. His endless bashing of the 80s turtles proved to be really annoying, mostly because his putdowns were the only comments he made throughout- he had nothing else to say. The Raph from the live action movie was badass... the animated 2000's one just seems to be a poser. He also seemed a little gay for Casey. Not that there's anything wrong with that...

The scene where the mutant bananas and evil leprechauns attack April almost brought a tear to my eye. It was so beautiful.

So yeah... even though they were treated with disrespect, the 80s turtles still served to remind us of a time when cartoons were action packed AND fun. Cowabunga, dude.

I always wondered if _I_ was the only one who caught that, that he switched from chucks to a grappling line half-way through the series. Was this for synidcation in England?!

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Overall I liked the film but I'll completely agree with all those who complain about the 80's versions of the turtles. The best way I can discribe them is that remember back when you were a kid and some snooty adult would complain about how bad the cartoons you liked were and said things like these characters are all interchangeable, they have nothing to distingush themselves from each other. It's like those people who didn't like the series or know anything about it wrote the 80's turtles.

Also show an episode where the turtles were giving nuggies to everyone, seriously.