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The Symbolism of the Cave and the Nameless Saint (SPOILER)

posted 9 years ago by vech24
7 replies | jump to latest

Just curious what people's interpretations were of the "vampiric gift" process that happens when someone enters the cave. Darvell mentions in a conversation Ruthven that, "forgiveness is a Christian value. My gods are older...more ruthless." Seeing how they use the term from Caribbean folklore "soucriant" analogous to "vampire" in this film, I wonder if the "Old Gods" Darvell mentions are literally meant to be from that culture.

Symbolically though, in a story with themes of institutionalized misogyny, the oppression of woman, and then female liberation/empowerment, I wonder if the cave is meant to symbolize the female? The way the water ran red with blood upon someone's "vampiric turning" reminded me both of a womb and child birth or a woman's menstrual blood (sorry for the imagery, I played the game Bloodborne recently.)

Another mystery is the nature of the transformation itself since all we witness as the audience is Darvell encountering a "doppelganger". Seeing as how the director plays with time period cuts, not everything we see on screen seems to me to be taken literally. Like Clara viewing her orphanage as a memory but on-screen seemed to be looking literally at herself.

Anyhow I'm curious on discussion regarding potential implied lore/backstory within the film as well as the symbolism gathered.

TL/DR: What the hell happened in the cave literally/symbolically?

[–] India_Ana 9 years ago

We see Eleanor meet her "doppelganger" as well. She was treated a great deal better than Darvell was, which leads me to believe that everyone is given tit for tat, based on how they live their lives? 

Could you suggest books, or share links to information on the myth/lore you are proposing? I have several books on vampires, but I haven't come across the lore you've mentioned.

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[–] vech24 9 years ago

I'd have to re-watch to see where Eleanor "meets her dopple."

As far as the Socriant reference, I can only share generally what I've seen with some light searching:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soucouyant

[–] India_Ana 9 years ago

by vech24
» (Mon Aug 31 2015 23:17:24)

I'd have to re-watch to see where Eleanor "meets her dopple."

I think Darvell was punished for seeking help from God, instead of the ancients.  And maybe also because he didn't seek out God until after he was dying. And maybe even for not protecting Clara, and who knows who else, from the likes of Ruthven. 

As far as the Socriant reference, I can only share generally what I've seen with some light searching:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soucouyant

Okay. Thanks for the link. I'll do a search in my books for that as well.

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[–] ChefLucretia 9 years ago

India_anna, I noticed the difference in the treatment by their dopplegangers too! I think you are very correct that it reflects their own personalities and attitudes towards their prey. I would have loved to see if Clara was seductive to her own self! Or ruthless, or whatever. Very interesting!

[–] India_Ana 9 years ago

by ChefLucretia
» (Tue Sep 1 2015 15:04:13)

India_anna, I noticed the difference in the treatment by their dopplegangers too! I think you are very correct that it reflects their own personalities and attitudes towards their prey. I would have loved to see if Clara was seductive to her own self! Or ruthless, or whatever. Very interesting!

I think the doppelganger would have been motherly towards Clara. (Or maybe childlike?) Clara's strongest emotion is her love of her child, and her self-sacrifice to have Eleanor raised into a better life. 

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[–] India_Ana 9 years ago

I searched through my books for "soucouyant," and one book states that it comes from Trinidadian Folklore. (Which is also mentioned in your link.) And that it is a similar legend to the Philippines' Aswang/Manananggal (tik tik or wak wak). It isn't known which one influenced the other, if at all. That's what I have so far. I haven't Googled for more info yet.

Eleanor wasn't aware of the "Brotherhood." She only knows about Darvell and Ruthven. Perhaps she drew her own conclusions from what she had read/learned about vampires, and by going by her mother's actions of seducing men. Perhaps "Socriant" isn't the real term. 

I'll need to ponder on the other a little longer.

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[–] SkillyWiggler89 9 years ago

@Vech24, wow that is a really good interpretation! There were a lot of themes and allegories in this beautiful movie, but I never even thought of that one. I totally agree with your idea.