Plot hole about Ruthven
He has been in the island before why would Clara taken the map interfere with he going back?
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MovieChat Forums > Byzantium (2013) Discussion > Plot hole about Ruthven
He has been in the island before why would Clara taken the map interfere with he going back?
I've been wondering about the map, myself!
Yes, Ruthven has been on the island before and perhaps he spent the better part of 10 years trying to retrace his steps before he finally gave up and sought other options to relieve his "frustration." It's unclear whether or not Ruthven paid any attention to the island's location, seeing as it frightened him. If you recall, Ruthven left (what he thought was) Darvell's corpse to rot and then went back home and took over his friend's property and fortune. At the time, he was eager to leave the island and it's "secrets" behind...so it's unlikely that he took it upon himself to remember the island's exact location.
There's also the possibility that the 'Brotherhood' may have thwarted whatever effort he made, upon learning of his and Clara's encounter. share
That is a good point. He wasn't paying attention and he didn't saw the map is probably a hard to find spot in the middle of the ocean if not they wouldn't need a map.
Also maybe Ruthven is just not that good at finding things given that Clara went a second time with her daughter and I doubt she got a new map from the order so she might had been able to reproduce the route a second time.
Eleanor gave Frank the map for his birthday, so I assume that she has had it all these years. And that Clara kept it and gave it to her.
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"Also maybe Ruthven is just not that good at finding things..."
The Royal Navy certainly screwed up in making him a captain then!
They can do that but not stop Clara taking Eleanor there or Eleanor taking Frank there?
shareYes, I agree that was an enormous plot hole. I just don't buy the "he couldn't find it again" arguments. The man is a naval captain for God's sake! Navigation and observation are two of his most important professional skills. And there are boatmen who know where it is and are willing to take people there, even if they won't set foot on it themselves, so it doesn't have any sort of magical concealment.
shareI think there's a certain magical property to the map that allows non-vampires to reach it. Vampires can clearly return without it, but we never see a mortal go there without it as far as I recall.
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I took it as the map was the formal invitation to actually become a vampire. Ruthven had been there before, but he hadn't been the intended invitee. The passing of the map from a vampire to a mortal was the initiation of the creation process. My guess is Clara had given it to Eleanor when she went there to be turned -hence why she had it in the modern era to give to Frank.
shareTo me it seems like a magical place. A place you can only reach if you're "invited" as you say.
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To me it seems like a magical place. A place you can only reach if you're "invited" as you say.
So, if the island can only be reached "if you're invited," that mean Darvel intended for Clara to steal the map from Ruthven and become a vampire herself, despite his initial surprise and continued denial of giving it to her. Maybe Darvell wanted Clara to take the map, all along. share
I think anyone can reach the island, but for the cave to have its effect, one must be invited. When Darvell is turned, Ruthven is not only on the island but enters the cave -but nothing happens to him as he hadn't been the one actually invited with the map.
I can't see any other reason that Darvell told Ruthven all that he did with Clara standing right there.
I can't see any other reason that Darvell told Ruthven all that he did with Clara standing right there.
And there's the crux! Darvell's motives are hard to pigeonhole.
He knew the map and the location of the cave were closely guarded secrets.
He knew that the Brotherhood only allowed men to be gifted with the map.
And when he decided to gift Ruthven with eternal life, he knew who he wanted to invite.
It was only when he recognized Clara in the parlor room, that his motives became hard to pinpoint. I'm still unsure as to whether he meant to give it to her, or not.
Because initially, Ruthven was the intended target. Clara was an unforeseen opportunity; and here's what I think happened in Darvell's mind.
I think he genuinely wanted Ruthven to join him as a vampire, even after he recognized who Clara was but I also think he suspected Ruthven was hiding a gun underneath the pool table and sensed his dear old friend was about to betray him again.
I think he looked at his options, and quickly put together a plan that wouldn't lead the Brotherhood to think that he intentionally invited a woman. So he goes along with his initially plan and tells Ruthven about the map and the island, with Clara in earshot. He knows she's there to cover for Ruthven, if things get messy and plays along with Ruthven's slap-shot plan. He allows Clara to stay and listen to what happened to him.
But he also gives her cues as to what he expects of her, once he leaves the map on the pool table, directly above the gun, hidden underneath. He puts on a performance that leaves Ruthven with no doubt that he was the intended target (should he be interviewed by the Brotherhood) and leaves with his hands clean.
So yeah, there is a very, very, very good chance that Clara was the person he invited, not Ruthven. share
Another factor to bear in mind was that Darvell first came to the brothel early in the day, without the map, looking for Ruthven. That was when he saw Clara and likely recognized her.
He could have initially gone there for revenge against Ruthven -for any number of things Ruthven had done. But, when he saw Clara a better idea sprang to mind; one that would've been far more satisfying on a number of levels. (Payback against Ruthven, some restitution to Clara, etc.)
He could have initially gone there for revenge against Ruthven -for any number of things Ruthven had done.
I doubt that!
There wasn't any hint of revenge in Darvell's demeanor, when he first approached Ruthven in the parlor room. I think he genuinely thought Ruthven was an ideal candidate and someone to whom the Brotherhood would readily accept. In fact, Darvell seemed genuinely happy to see his old friend.
But his demeanor did change when he returned. I'm not sure if that was the result of his recognition of Clara or whether that was the result of him reliving his experiences, but I do think he left enough room for either Ruthven or Clara to take advantage of 'the gift.'
He basically rolled the dice and played his cards close to his vest. I also think he expected Ruthven to be on that island, seeing as the odds of Clara taking it were a 100 to 1 (at that time).
But once she did, he did everything in his power (and power is the operative word, here, for he had little) to make sure Clara was inducted into the Brotherhood. share