MovieChat Forums > Melancholia (2011) Discussion > The real Justine? Part 1 or 2 or both?

The real Justine? Part 1 or 2 or both?

posted 8 years ago by tinasparklesau
6 replies | jump to latest

In part 1, Justine is an innocent victim of the self centered, controlling and toxic people that she is surrounded by. Her family, her boss and even her new husband. She is unfairly blamed for being late to her reception even though it was clear that she walked 2 hours to get there in full wedding attire because of the dodgy limo service, her sister and brother in law instantly throw all blame her way as 'typical Justine behaviour to deliberately ruin THEIR plans and waste their money. (Does new hubby pipe up in her defense? nope).

Her parents can't put aside their petty differences for one night to be supportive and happy for her, and instead humiliate and embarrass her during their 'speeches'. (Does anyone chime in to put a stop to this for Justine? nope). Even when she seeks each parent out individually, practically crying for some support from them - Her mother is rude and tells her to run and her father skips out. Her boss uses the occasion to manipulate her into working on her wedding day. Her new husband acknowledges that he hasn't been there for her emotionally and can see she is struggling, fast forward 5 minutes and he's whipping his pants off hoping for a quickie. When he doesn't get one, and doesn't get the gratitude he feels he's entitled to because of his property purchase (for her apparently)- he goes running to her sister to have a private chat/b*tch session about his new bride.

You can see Justine gradually unravelling with each progressive scene where person after person in her life either doesn't care to know her let alone care about her, or wants to exploit her or simply want to blame her because of their preconceived opinions of her. Hubby gives married life less than 12 hours before walking out on her. Justine's actions are totally justified. Except of course consummating her marriage with someone else, even though this cannot be condoned, Justine rebelling at what her life clearly is and will continue to be, does justify an emotional snap of her own which led her down such a self destructive path of behaviour causing her to lose her husband and her job. She clearly had an epiphany that neither were healthy for her.

But Part 2 (Claire), paints a totally different picture of Justine. Her mental health problems are in full swing, and though this could be attributed to her failed wedding and reception as the proverbial straw, she is portrayed as a sour, bitter, mean spirited b*tch. Yet Now Claire is lovely and caring and supportive... Is Justine part 1 the real Justine and part 2 is still her but a 'broken her', or is part 1 Justine the Justine that she see's herself as and everyone else as in her deluded inaccurate mind while in reality she has very real problems that make her the one that is self centered and mean to others? Or is she a mixture of both depending on who's perspective you are looking at her from? Or possibly, is she neither? Perhaps only a sufferer of an extreme mental health problem where her narrative cannot be correctly identified by either herself or the people that support her? Is Justine (1&2) simply a study of Lars Von Trier's to highlight the absolute confused psyche of people that suffer from serious personality disorders and the people that support them (or don't support them)?

Why devote so much time to Justine as an exploratory character study into mental health, just to end in the destruction of everything and everyone? Or is that the point...? Is Justine a metaphor for that there are no answers or explanations, that there is no beginning, no understanding, only an end where nothing matters. Or is it the planet Melancholia that is the metaphor for pointlessness?

[–] trixietrx 8 years ago

Good post. Some of both I think with some others thrown in.

This has to be at least my third time watching, and I'm recovering from a major depression and still have it flare and anxiety too. The characters ring so true, except I don't get Michael.

There's got to be some backstory of mental health issues in the family. You get hints of that with Justine's parents' behavior, but also in everyone asking "are you happy"? People don't like to see others sad, and it's hard to be depressed but I do understand that it must be very hard for the people who deal with me too. My moods change randomly. I try to put on this smiley face, but frequently it requires massive amounts of energy or alcohol to keep it there.

So I think Michael knew he was marrying someone who was unstable. Add to that the pressures and high stress of a wedding like that, plus the odd inclusion of her abilities to perceive the coming of Melancholia. Then I'm not quite sure if her telling his best man to *beep* off had something to do with it? I think the swing also represents either her inability to deal with focusing on things too far in the future, or her "knowing" there would be no future. But no one took her seriously or talked to her, even Michael.

So, you've got Claire who's kinda OCD (another sign that the whole family does have issues) and as John says gets anxious, needing to stay on schedule and as planned for the wedding. We see some of her cracks, but not many, but she's dealt with Justine her whole life. They appear to be close sisters with obviously dysfunctional parents.

Part 2, I don't know how much further we've skipped in time, but Justine has broken into full blown major depression. John can't stand it (I think many who don't understand it cannot take it, and that is kind of understandable, it's got to be so trying to others). Claire takes care of Justine. But something shifts, when everyone starts freaking out, it seems that Justine has made peace with dying and the world ending, and she KNOWS what will happen, and that's what her actual strength is, to help those still there, especially her nephew.

And overall, yes, I see it all as a metaphor, blue, melancholia, the inability for some people to see it as real, and the real absolute destruction it can leave. Overall, I think this has been one of my favorite movies as it, to me, reflects my inner feelings.

ETA: I guess I'd kinda like to add that John, the "non-believer" the straight laced suit wearing unable to put up with others' foibles, takes the easy way out, leaving his wife and son to cope on their own, not even having the guts to tell them he was wrong. I also thought Claire's reaction to that was a little weird, but I really think the entire family had mental health issues.

[–] WileyDairyGnome 8 years ago

This was a good post...it surprised me how so many people didn't seem to get that she is mentally ill and not a self centered *beep* Like yeah mental illness can make you act like one sometimes but it wasn't who she was, if that makes sense.

[–] tinasparklesau 8 years ago

Thanks for the very insightful post. I hadn't considered mental health issues running in the family, but it makes sense. It appeared that the parents were just quirky/eccentric, and Claire did display some OCD traits but at the time, i looked upon it more as behaving repressed due to her husband. I also wasn't sure how trustworthy Justine's narrative was and how much was a metaphor for something else. But this is definitely food for thought. Especially Claire... There's a lot of subtle markers peppered throughout the movie by Lars Von Trier now that i think about it. Justine moving Claire's books around being one off the top of my head.

I think act 2 may be the more reliable narrative? LVT tends to put a lot more than surface value hints in his films, so it could be safe to say that the way he broke the story in half means a lot more than just volume 1 and 2 imo. Something else i find interesting is that John remains unchanged in both segments. He's a douche in both, but maybe he represents a metaphor himself.

[–] trixietrx 8 years ago

Thinking about it some more now... but I'd have to re-watch. There are definite significances in the pictures Justine puts out. But I haven't connected them.

I think they are both reliable narrative, if you keep in mind that a wedding is never a reliable narrative (do you know what I mean?). People tend to be on edge or acting their best (or in cases worst), and lots of alcohol (hmmmm, remember the scene when Michael gives Justine a bottle and she looks so relieved?)

John is the naysayer, the Tom Cruise to the Brooke Shields, if you will, denying that depression (Melancholia) is anything destructive. When he finds out the truth, it appears to shatter his world view so much that he actually offs himself instead of being the manly man he's been shown as portraying himself to be.

I'm sure there is a lot more to it. I just know I could relate so well to Justine. The trying to put on a happy face, self-destructive behaviors, even the inability to get out of bed or into the tub. So there must be something reaffirming to her that melancholia is going to destroy not just her, but everyone. When going through a major depression, you do feel so alone. So perhaps that got her out of it and into a sort of survival or protection mode?

[–] tinasparklesau 8 years ago

So there must be something reaffirming to her that melancholia is going to destroy not just her, but everyone. When going through a major depression, you do feel so alone. So perhaps that got her out of it and into a sort of survival or protection mode?

Yes, i definitely feel this from Justine. Melancholia seems to be her own acknowledgment that she is no longer alone in the way she feels, everyone else is in the same boat now and she's not 'abnormal'... What everyone else feels is what she's always lived and finally there's no emancipation and alienation between herself and others. What could be perceived as some of her 'snarky' comments could be simply a case of her inability to understand *others* lack of understanding. Her bathing in the light of Melancholia makes a strong (not to mention hauntingly beautiful) case of her peaceful acceptance of herself, especially in stark contrast to her previous 2 baths that were shown.

John is the naysayer, the Tom Cruise to the Brooke Shields, if you will, denying that depression (Melancholia) is anything destructive.

lol good analogy! And not just denying that depression is destructive, but perhaps a representation of the people that proclaim it doesn't exist at all "It's all in your head/ You're doing it for attention / You're choosing to live like this / etc". I've also pondered if he may be a metaphor for medication itself... The type that doesn't work, or just masks things temporarily. His attitude towards Claire's fears is to hide things from her (mask the gravity of the situation), cut off her thoughts and concerns, his attitude towards Claire that her 'molly coddling' of Justine is an outside interference to Justine being able to do things on her own, and finally the way that he uses the drugs himself - when he realises he is wrong, is to self destruct *himself* by abusing medication/drugs (the wrong drugs will cause worse self destruction).

As a side note, even though the definition of melancholia doesn't denote anything of beauty, there's a recurring theme of sadness that exudes a painful beauty in film that explores it i've found. The female character in Solaris exuded a poignant beauty also imo.

[–] trixietrx 8 years ago

Great comments! Thanks for taking this further!

regarding your last paragraph:

As a side note, even though the definition of melancholia doesn't denote anything of beauty, there's a recurring theme of sadness that exudes a painful beauty in film that explores it i've found. The female character in Solaris exuded a poignant beauty also imo.

I am not sure if I've seen Solaris or not. But yes, there was a poignant beauty to Justine's connection to the blue planet. I wonder what it means that John watches her? Or even why she did it (maybe to feel some relief).

So then I started thinking also, and reading trivia, and something about one of the pictures being about excess in the face of spiritual emptiness. And you've also got advertising (excess) to which Justine's tagline is "nothing."

I'm starting to think more the first narrative is also very reliable from Justines POV. She's happy with Michael, he understands she has issues, and knows how to make her laugh (whether or not that makes her happy is questionable, but laughing does feel good). Then she wants to see her horse. She's putting off dealing with all the people and the drama and honestly, I still cannot stand crowds, they overwhelm me, and I think it shows her slowly just breaking down from the weight of all the pressures.