MovieChat Forums > The Walking Dead (2010) Discussion > TWD has to end with Rick

TWD has to end with Rick

posted 6 years ago by Aphrodite (110)
22 replies | jump to latest

I don’t think the show can survive without Rick. What I think/hope will happen, is that when Rick and Maggie bow out, the series as a whole will be over. And Daryl will get a spin-off of sorts. Maybe some of the others will be back on the show too.

With Daryl being a non-character in the comics, they can really do whatever they want with a new cast. Hopefully even go to different places. I personally have said before that I would like to see how they do in different weather. Winter, for example would be really interesting to see. How does snow and ice affect zombies? Or see other weather conditions, like a tornado or flooding. No that would really be scary. Get the hell out of Georgia. Have Daryl get on his motorcycle, maybe being the only survivor of whatever befalls Rick, Maggie and everyone else, and have Daryl try to find a new group, after going through everything he’s gone through. No more Negan, no more of the same crap all the time.

Maybe even have Carol join him, as the only other original survivor. That would be a fresh take on the show and who knows what it could bring. But if they’re going to kill off Rick, and have him join Carl in his dream land...maybe with Judith behind him, and Michonne too - since she’s now useless (plus Danai is in Marvel now, the sooner she gets off TWD, the better). Fuck, bring everyone back. Have Rick be reunited with everyone in dreamland who has been long dead...maybe even have Lori make a cameo, and Maggie and Glenn be together with their child. That would be beautiful.

That’s the only way I can see them breathing new life into the show, by literally killing off everyone and truly starting fresh, with a brand new series.

[–] RogueDemonHunter (2684) 6 years ago

I think TWD can be a brand. Let's face it, 95% of the characters are terrible. Stupid dumb fucks or throwaway red shirts. We really don't care about any of them bar a couple after all this time. They would do well to completely diverge from the comics and create their own stories. They would have to fire all these terrible 'writers' though. I think trying to stay near to comics but not quite has had a serous impact on things. Take for instance the prison. Not including something as brutal as the decapitation of Hershel's daughters was weak.

Personally I feel Lincoln was a terrible Rick so would be glad to see him leave. New slate, new adventures. Make it what it should have been all along. Amazing. How do they fuck up something as simple as zombies?

I mean, the world is over. The population has been more than decimated most likely. The world is their oyster. They can do pretty much whatever they want within reason. They should be pushing forward, expanding safe zones, creating outposts, trying to rig comms, large scale farming e.t.c. But no. They mope around in woods/farm/prison e.t.c. Bad guy comes along, everyone cries, someone dies and then move on. Yawn.

[–] Aphrodite (110) 6 years ago

I never read 5e comics, but read stuff here and there to see what the similarities and differences were. You are right that 95% of the characters are people no one cares about. Really the only characters I cared about, were the originals. And a few others tossed in here and there. Some characters grew on me. But largely, I didn’t care if 80% of them died. I did care about the originals dying though. And now with only 3 original characters left (4 I guess if you include Morgan), but everyone else is dead.

Rick did get seriously annoying...a lot of the time. But I liked his portrayal. I also liked what they did with Darryl the first few seasons. Then I started rolling my eyes and hating him every time he was screen for the last 3 seasons. They totally wrecked his character. Same with Michonne. Zthey ruined a lot of characters really. I heard so many people say how Andrea was a badass in the comics, but was horrible on the show. I was happy when she died. Tyrese was another character everyone was freaking out about being on the show, but he was also a letdown. But I don’t think anyone has been as bad as Negan, my god he completely ruined the show.

There has been so much dumb shit in the show. I loved the first season, but pretty much hated all the others. I kept watching hoping it would get better. Some episodes were good, here and there. So many were just horrible. Ouldnt stand all the boring filler episodes too. But seasons as a whole were just terrible. Season 2 was probably the worst for me. What really ruined the show was how the zombies were no longer these threats. They made killing zombies so easy, you could step on one and kill it. That zombie walk they did with those quarry zombies was just about the dumbest thing I’ve seen. Well...one of the dumbest. There have been so many dumb things I’ve seen in the show.

As I said in my post above, I think they should just kill off everyone. I mean if Darryl is now going to lead the show, have him start fresh.

[–] RogueDemonHunter (2684) 6 years ago

Yeah, the ease at which they kill zombies really bothers me. It's like they don't have clue about the Human anatomy. Anything they have at hand is able to penetrate a skull/everyone is strong enough to penetrate a skull. Knife, branch, broom stick, sharpened carrot? Yup, all will kill. They don't understand the brain is an incredibly resilient organ. Look at all the people have have survived massive head trauma. Spikes and nails through their brain. There's people living fine with large amounts of their brains missing after accidents and stuff. A quick blade stab is not likely to do enough damage to finish off a zombie. Somehow zombie lore has gotten to a point where a single head shot will drop them. Utter nonsense.

[–] Aphrodite (110) 6 years ago

The fact that they all seem to get headshots whenever they shoot at the zombies is annoying too, especially when they try to shoot at Negan or really any enemies...they always miss. Not to mention the unlimited ammo they’ve had since season 2. And don’t forget those pesky ninja/teleporting zombies that started showing up in season 2, making no noise at all until they were literally right on top of you. Ridiculous.

I hate how they dumbed down the zombies too. In season 1, we saw them climbing fences and ladders. They were able to look under cars. They climbed stairs too. We also saw at least one zombie pick up a rock and them use it to break the glass at the mall they were hiding in. But of course they tried to undo all of Frank Darabont’s work since then. They rarely even used that trick they first used in season 1, where they smeared themselves with zombie guts to hide their scent.

The thing that gets me, is how they’ve failed to explain how their virus not only began, but how it spreads and kills someone. We have literally seen zombie juice get into the mouths, eyes and ears of so many of the cast. Rick was even stabbed with a machete or something that he had used to kill a zombie seconds earlier, I believe it was. And yet nothing. But you get a scratch or small bite from a zombie, and you’re dead unless you cut off the part of the body they bit. Just dumb. Zombie bites also don’t seem to affect animals at all either.

[–] RogueDemonHunter (2684) 6 years ago

Yep. ninja zombies is something that really bugs me too. Especially when it happens in wooded areas. You have to have a quite a bit of practice/training to walk through woods without making a noise. A zombie would be crashing about all over the place, breaking twigs and stuff. You'd hear it a mile off. It's just a really lazy way to introduce peril but just having them appear when a character turns their back.

Personally I feel zombies shouldn't be too intelligent. Climbing stairs, sure but not using rocks as tools. I don't think they should be able to operate door handles. Climbing a fence, perhaps to a degree if it was already compromised and bowing.

The Romero rule of infection has always bothered me. To reanimate after a death with no zombie involved seems dumb to me. It implies some form of airborne hibernating contagion. Or perhaps something that was orchestrated to infect large amounts of the population via food/water supply contamination. It just seems a bit pointless if it was of Human origin. Perhaps some alien weapon where they sprinkle some alien chemical weapon over Earth, wait for it to wipe out the population then come back in X years to strip the planet of resources. That's what I would do if I was an alien. No fuss, minimal effort.

As you say, numerous characters should have gotten infected from compromised wounds. Having it just from bites/scratches is weird and makes no sense.

[–] Aphrodite (110) 6 years ago

Ninja zombies are ridiculous. As you said, they shuffle and crash into everything, but yet they’re whisper quiet in the woods, allowing them to sneak up on people? Give me a break.

I can understand the intelligence thing. I think for me, it depends how long they’ve been dead. I mean the most ridiculous thing on the show is how long these zombies last. But I think fresh zombies should still hold on to some intelligence, and should also have memory for doing things. Like back in season 1 when Morgan’s wife remember where she lived and tried to open the door. Romero did it in some of his movies too, having zombies still “working” at their jobs, even though they were long dead. In Resident Evil they had zombies doing some crazy shit, like putting together puzzles, driving, and so much other craziness.

I imagine zombies to be more like early cavemen, so being able to look at a rock and think to break something with it seems like something they should be able to do. Like...see someone do something, then imitate what they’re doing...like climbing a ladder or stairs. Kind of like a child when they’re first learning. But having dumb zombies who only know how to shuffle around and bite doesn’t seem scary to me. The real threatening ones are the ones who can learn simple tasks or have rudimentary abilities and some memory of their former life.

As for spreading infection, yeah there needs to be an explanation of how and why. What’s frustrating is that Kirkman has said that we’ll never find out how or why this all happened. They even promised us before Fear TWD started that we would see how it all happened from the early stages of the virus....but they quickly skipped that part. I wanted to see more of how the military were overpowered, see more people fend for themselves, but instead they skipped over all of that within the first few episodes, and had military committing suicide and shit like that, like that one guy who walked into a helicopter blade. Ugh.

[–] Aphrodite (110) 6 years ago

The fact that they had a zombie taking over their well water in season 2, and didn’t get sick at all, was dumb. The fact that they’ve been fully exposed to zombie juice and blood by having it squirt in their eyes or ears, or having large amounts of it enter their mouth, and still nothing? Or having them use knives and arrows to kill zombies, and then use it to cut their food is dumb. Same with getting stabbed by a machete you just used to kill a zombie and having no ill effects whatsoever. Their rules of how you turn into a zombie is dumb. And the fact that everyone on the planet is infected, whether they’ve been exposed to or bitten by zombies, is dumb too.

It would be interesting to see them finally find people who aren’t infected. People who don’t come back after they die. Then they can maybe start thinking about if they don’t come back, then how come they do? And maybe find a cause for why it happened, and if there’s a cure or. At least something to stop people coming back after they die. That would be interesting.

I also wAnt to see different climates and different cities. Them staying near Georgia and constantly in hot weather is ridiculous. Why not go up to Canada or up high enough North to hit cold weather. How does that affect zombies? Are there people living up North that are free of zombies because they can’t ha die the cold weather? I’m sick of being in the same spot all the time.

I may start watching FTWD again, as people keep saying it’s really improved since the 2nd season.

[–] RogueDemonHunter (2684) 6 years ago

Definitely go back to FTWD. Quality improved quite a bit and season 3 was solid IMO. Better than TWD.

[–] Moonglum9 (11267) 6 years ago

Yeah, the ease at which they kill zombies really bothers me. It's like they don't have clue about the Human anatomy. Anything they have at hand is able to penetrate a skull/everyone is strong enough to penetrate a skull.

That does seem mystifying. And if you try to explain it that the virus somehow softens up the skull significantly to allow for it, then you'd have to wonder how their other bones would be able to support their bodies and stuff.

[–] OhHeyBro (362) 6 years ago

That’s the only way I can see them breathing new life into the show, by literally killing off everyone and truly starting fresh, with a brand new series.

Uh, no. That's a terrible idea. Give up and just throw away 8 years of story just because the show is in a tough spot right now? The show is still salvagable if Negan becomes the new leader. Give him a redemption arc and have him make Carl and Rick's dream of the future come true.

[–] Aphrodite (110) 6 years ago

The show as we know it, Rick’s story, will be dead once he leaves. He IS The Walking Dead series. It started with him, it should end with him. And Andrew Lincoln isn’t the only one leaving. Maggie is being written off too. And I can’t see Danai sticking around, now that she’s in 2 massive Marvel movies. That leaves pretty much only Daryl and Carol as the two characters anyone really cares about. Sure some of the other characters have moments here and there, but nothing to sustain viewers.

Negan ruined the show. There is no redeeming him, people don’t even want to see him anymore. He ruined the show for a lot of people, me included. Have you not seen how many people abandoned the show since they introduced his character? They’re now seeing the lowest ratings they’ve had since season 2!!! Courtesy, in large part, to Negan. The way in which he took pleasure in killing Glenn and Abraham, and the constant threats he made to Carl and Rick. Making him leader would just tank the show harder. They went from averaging 13 million viewers in season 6, to 11 million in season 7 and now 7 million in season 8. They’re hemorrhaging viewers. Since his arrival, they’ve lost nearly half their viewers.

If Daryl really is the new lead of the series, then I’d rather they just kill off everyone, or have Daryl just leave and go off on his own, or with Carol, and have them start fresh. On a new journey with new people. Do people even care about half the characters on the show anymore? I stopped caring a long time ago. He won’t be able to lead the show the way it is now. They need to start fresh if they really want to breath new life into the show.

[–] [deleted] 6 years ago

I totally agree with everything you wrote. Negan is the cancer of this show and I can't understand for the life of me how can people like him. Ratings plummeted since his arrival and I guess that making him the lead would kill the show for good.

Having said that, I'm pretty sure that there's some kind of redempion around the corner.

[–] Aphrodite (110) 6 years ago

They can try to redeem Negan, in what little time they have left, but that doesn’t mean fans will accept it, or come back. They’ve lost nearly half the viewers since his arrival. That’s insane to me. In season 5 and 6 they were averaging 13/14 million viewers. Now they’re averaging about 7 million. That’s insane. They’re now bringing in numbers similar to seaso 2.

Negan’s whole arc doesn’t even make sense to me. I honestly don’t understand how he amassed so many followers. The Governor I can understand how he did it, but Negan seems like such and asshole, and a total psychopath who takes pleasure in killing people. The way in which he killed Glenn and Abraham was serious sickening and nauseating. I heard people were even throwing up while watching it. Many vowed never to watch again. They wanted to go big with Negan, and they did, but it ruined the show. People couldn’t get over that. Anyway, the workers are treated like crap, fearful of Negan and his crew. Even his own people hate him, like Dwight. His own 2nd in command even tried to overthrow him. I just don’t get it. You would have thought that everyone would have teamed up to overthrow him a long time ago - before he got so many people, not just the workers but all the people like Kingdom and Hilltop. Why the hell give him half of everything, just because he threatens them? Ban together and wipe him out. So dumb.

So yeah, they can try to redeem him, but that doesn’t mean people will accept it. Especially if they try to put him in charge.

[–] [deleted] 6 years ago

Again, I totally agree.

I may add that Negan always reminded me of pre-teens that are cruel to small animals just because they can.

Negan's arc doesen't make sense because he's a cartoon, and a very bad one at that. If they didn't try to copy the comics and improved upon them instead, he might have worked, but we'll never know.

Anyway, I watched the last couple of seasons just out of habit, but having Negan as the show's lead would definitely make me stop watching altogether.

[–] Aphrodite (110) 6 years ago

Yeah, it was the same for me. Except I’ve been watching out of habit for a lot longer. I truly loved the first season, and after that I haven’t really enjoyed any of the other seasons. I found myself coming on the old IMDB boards after every episode complaining about how dumb so many of the storylines or plots were.

All the wasted bullets with target practice on trees, and and bottles instead of, oh I don’t know, actual zombies!? Not to mention the unlimited ammo they seemed to have. Then there’s the teleporting/ninja zombies who don’t seem to make a sound at all until they’re close enough to take a bite out of you. And then there was all the talking going on, Rick or others constantly screaming for Carl to the point that it became a meme, and just the total lack of zombies! What the hell? And all they had was a small wooden fence protecting their land? Ridiculous.

So very early on, I started watching out of habit. Hoping that the show would get better. It never did. There were some good episodes here and there, but a lot of bad or dumb episodes more often. Again, I was always on the IMDB frustrated with how bad the show had gotten. I hated the thought of them constantly doing the same formula. Find a place to live, think it’s safe until proven very wrong, then move to another place. And they always stayed within the same geographical location.

That’s what drew me to Fear the Walking Dead the 2nd season. For the first season, it was seeing how the world went to shit (although they didn’t really show that either, since they skipped over a lot of things), but the 2nd season promised to have them going elsewhere. And they did, they went to the ocean and then to Mexico. Who knows where they are now. I stopped watching it then, although I may give it another chance now.

[–] Aphrodite (110) 6 years ago

I think the last episode I remember watching of TWD, and I use watch very loosely here as I had the show on in the background while I used my iPad, was the episode where Rick brings the garbage people to Negan’s hideout, and sees the shit that Daryl did. After that, I was done with the show. I just couldn’t take the garbage anymore. Ever since Negan showed up, I’ve just lost interest in the show. I kept watching, again out of habit and hoping things would get better, but I was disgusted with Negan. I noticed that I stopped coming on the IMDB boards when they were still around, because I just hated everything about the show now. I stopped watching Talking Dead because I just didn’t care anymore. Then I stopped watching the show all together.

[–] [deleted] 6 years ago

For sure there have been a lot of bottle episodes, especially late in the run, and there were/are silly things. You covered almost everything, but let me add:

i) the idiocy of working cars - if I leave mine untouched for more than a month and half the battery dies, and let's ignore the degradation of the fuel.

ìì) they don't smell walkers unless it's a horde - it would be impossible to have a walking corpse sneak upon you, you'd smell it from yards away.

Despite everything, I liked the first three seasons and found highly watchable seasons 4 and 5, but my patience was put to test with season 6. I found offensive the blatant manipulaton and the complete disregard for logic and character development. Sure, there were a couple of good episodes, but season 6 B was really about nothing, just a huge filler. Then Negan arrived and I started to actually dislike the show, but what the hell, I braved the (shit)storm in the vague hope that things would improve. For sure I stopped buying the Blu Rays.

I never really liked FTWD. I found mildly interesting season 1, but then the show went south quickly and I never cared for any of the main characters. Season 4 is marred by the same old tropes and mistakes but so far I'm enjoying it. The soft reboot is nothing to rave about, but it works enough for me.

Talking Dead is a joke. I watch it when I remember because I like to see the actors out of character and try to get an idea of who they are as people, otherwise it's really annoying partisan crap

[–] Aphrodite (110) 6 years ago

Yes, the cars is another moronic issue. All gas is stale at this point. Hell, within the first season it was stale, and cars had been sitting around for months unused. And yet....all cars still miraculously still run, with no major issues. So dumb. And you never see any maintenance being done....like no oil changes or any of that. I don’t remember the last time, if any, where we saw someone underneath a car tuning it up.

And I can only imagine the stench that rotting flesh would have. And some of the zombies they come up with are oozing and decaying at a rapid pace. Like that bloated zombie in the well, how the hell did no one smell that? They didn’t even know until they looked in the well.

For me, looking back on it now, I would be happy to see The Governor back on the show. I mean looking at the hell that was Negan, I can now appreciate The Governor more as a villain. I hated him, but he made sense. His followers made sense. I could understand why people listened to him. I can’t understand the Negan storyline at all. I haven’t looked back at any of the seasons since I started watching. I don’t own any of the DVDs or Blu Rays. I basically just watch it on tv. One and done. If I rewatched the show now, maybe I would have a different opinion. But the first season was so good to me. They had a good mix of zombie action and character development. In season 2 and 3, they were seriously lacking in zombies. Is mean there would be episodes where you maybe only saw one zombie in an entire episode. I don’t think they started showing more zombies until around season 4 or 5. For me, they just never had that good balance that they had in season 1.

And another issue is that they basically made zombies no longer a threat. Like seeing a zombie now is nothing. They’re not a threat, which is where the show really took a turn for the worse. And then adding in Negan to that mix and it just ruined the show. It’s ridiculously easy for them to kill zombies, even when there’s a small group coming at you. The fact that they killed off Carl with a zombie bite is laughable, considering how invincible they made him before, and how much of a non-threat they made zombies now.

As for FTWD, I stopped watching it midway through season 2, so I don’t really know what’s going on that show now. Although I have heard about the recent deaths and how there’s really only 1 family member left now. Don’t know if they’re still in Mexico or not though. Everyone has said how much better the show got in season 3 and 4 though, so I may start watching again. I hated the mom on the show, could not stand her at all. Her and the daughter got on my last nerve.

And Talking Dead was always a joke. There’s no real discussion on the show. Everyone they bring on just strokes the egos of anyone to do with the show. Was it Marilyn Manson that actually critiqued the show? I can’t remember if it was him or not, you could definitely see Hardwick shit his pants when he was on. LOL. Half the “special guests” they bring on the show clearly aren’t even watchers, to the point where they don’t even know character names, or what happened the last season or hell even the last episode.

[–] [deleted] 6 years ago

Yeah, the Governor was a better villain. Heck, even Claimer Joe was better than Negan!

I happen to put the Blue Rays on on annual basis, as a background 'noise' while I paint, so that I can follow the dialogue and occasionally rest my eyes, so I've a clear idea of the gradual decay. The first three seasons, while somehow lacking, made sense and the characters were quite consistent. Sure, there were contrivancies and the occasional eye roll, but in general it was a solid show. Yeah, not many walkers around, but it was about pure survival and it worked.

I guess that making the humans the real threat was inevitable, and follows the comics I'm told, but in the long run it's hurting the show. There's not much left to explore. New assholes come around, cause trouble and get defeated by our heroes. Rinse and repeat.

I don't know what's really behind Carl's death, but it looks like he was sacrificed in order to spare Negan. After all nobody had any real reason to keep the fucker alive, so they had to make his survival about Rick's feelings. That's another reason why I strongly dislike Negan, as if I needed more...

If you are curious you can try FTWD, being a soft reboot there are just vague references to the previous season, but I doubt you'll like it. Basically it's the same writing as TWD. BTW, they're in Texas now. Season 3 I didn't like, so I can's recommend it either. The Clark family is the most unsimpatethic bunch of people on both series, but at least they tried to do something different with them. It didn't work and they are retconning them a bit, but ultimately I'm glad they are thinning this group of psychos.

About TWD I think I'll give a chance to Season 9, but just out of curiosity. Probably it'll be my last season.

[–] Aphrodite (110) 6 years ago

[deleted]

[–] brux (14724) 6 years ago

Lay off the crack pipe.

[–] PaladinNJ (21509) 6 years ago

it probably will end with him leaving.