MovieChat Forums > Sherlock Holmes: A Game of Shadows (2011) Discussion > Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but Pro...

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but Professor Moriarty was not a Nazi


Yet watching this film, during the big shootout, there tons of German being shouted as the bullets fly. According to Wiki, Doyle based Moriarty off of a German Jewish immigrant who fought in the American Civil War.

Yet watching this film I couldn't help but get the sense that I was seeing more WW2 imagery being thrown up on the screen. Although it was more likely a foreshadowing of WW1, one wonders if that scene was intentional as yet another Hollywood jab at the second World War.

Anybody with any thoughts?

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Don't know what you mean. It was ALL a visual cue to the impending World War One. Why mention Nazis at all? The NSDAP didn't exist in 1891 but there was Imperial Germany and the Kaiser. How did the imagery differ from World war 1? Despite a few design changes to imply original weapons designs by Moriarty (like the unique Submachine gun used by Watson or the anachronistic Schnellfeuer (Mauser 712) pistol used by Holmes) all of the weapons were PRE-World War 2. Sure the events of the film are 23 years prior to the actual start of World War One, but they are obviously laying the groundwork for the big war.



Dr. Kila Marr was right. Kill the Crystalline Entity.

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It just seems like I hear an awful lot of WW2 references all the time in films. I'm just tired of it.

When is someone going to make the great post millenial Korean War film? Or something about Desert Storm?

That aside, I didn't think too much of this version of Holmes. Downey is an excellent actor, but he didn't strike me as the Holmes type.

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But why do you mention WW2 references? Sure, WW2 cliches are common in movies because so many screenwriters are hacks and base all their knowledge of 'military' on bad tv shows and B&W movies they saw as kids. Look at low budget B movies and some TV s hows and it is definitely cringe worthy.


But to your 'point' .... Where do they appear in THIS film? I think it's in your imagination. Sorry.

Dr. Kila Marr was right. Kill the Crystalline Entity.

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Because like you say, a lot of Hollywood screenwriters reference WW2 for whatever reason. And when I saw this film do the Germans on war-footing thing, I wrongly concluded that it was another WW2 reference, which it could not have given the time frame of the film.

The last "great" war film I saw was Black Hawk Down. But unless it's Ridley Scott, you never see those kinds of films being made anymore. Or if they do, then you get "Inglorious Bastards" (no, I never saw it, but it is another WW2 film). Or a few dozen screenplays I read at a website which all had WW2 as a subject, or references to it.

So now when I see a film that has war and Germans in it, it's difficult for me not to draw erroneous conclusions.

Like I said on another BBS, when is someone going to make a Korean or Desert Storm war film? Someone may now that I've posted this, but it's like Hollywood's got it in their minds that historic Germany seemed to be the only ones who've initiated military conflicts.

Whatever. We've had to put down so many other bad-guys in this world SINCE the end of the second world war, but it's like you never hear those stories involved in those efforts.

And yeah, that does anger me.

As for this film, like I said, I like Downey as an actor. I think he's exceptionally talented, and he actually put his best foot forward in this film, but his Holmes seemed a bit too Autistic to me.

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So now when I see a film that has war and Germans in it, it's difficult for me not to draw erroneous conclusions.


This movie takes place in 1891, long before Nazis were even a thing.

And Germans/Germany aren't the villain. It's Moriarty, a British guy.

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So Germans speaking German in a movie must mean they are Nazis?

Just to answer the original question: These people were Germans because the scene was set in a German arms-factory which Moriarty had bought/taken over.


What this movie did was simply play with the idea that a World War could've broken out earlier than the real one (1914-1918), if someone had nudged the nations of Europe towards it. Which isn't *that* far fetched. I'm not sure what the exact situation was in 1891, but it's pretty safe to say that Europe was already steering towards war in the years before 1914. Like Moriarty says in the film: "In a few years, they'll start one on their own".

Plus we shouldn't forget that the film is set only 20 years after the Franco-Prussian War of 1870/71. The war that directly led to the formation of a German nation and which also was the root cause (IMO) for the German/French animosity which only ended after WW2. So relations between France and Germany in 1891 probably weren't that good in RL, either. For one thing, there was the question of Alsace-Lorraine which fell to Germany after the 70/71-war - a loss which France was still very much bitter over in the years leading up to WW1.



S.

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I can see that. I'm just so used to catching WW2 references in films that, to be honest, I'm just sick of it now.

It's just that when I saw this scene I assumed it was another WW2 jab, but, you're right in your explanation.

Thanks for the clarity.

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