I read the nearly 600 page book, 'Murder Machine', that details the DeMeo crew's estimated 60 killings. The Iceman isn't mentioned once. Nor is he mentioned in 'The Westies', the non-fiction giving details of the Irish counterparts to the DeMeo crew who killed an estimated 40 people. They were sponsored and initially funded by Roy DeMeo. I'm calling b@llshart.
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hey, you're the first person I know who's read Murder Machine and The Westies
I think I read somewhere there is a picture of Kuklinski and DeMeo together but I cant find it
I call b@llshart as far as him being in on the hit on Roy DeMeo, Paul Castellano and Jummy Hoffa, all which he claimed to be a part of
but I do believe Sammy the Bull hired him to kill a cop
as for DeMeo gang, I dont have a hard time believing they would contract out certain hits, and it would be someone who Roy took under his wing
but Kuklinski is definitely loose with the truth
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I'm just curious as to why a vicious group like the "Gemini Crew", who killed so many people with such little regard, would hire some Polish American that they didn't know to do their dirty work for them. I don't doubt that he killed numerous people for sick pleasure, but I highly doubt that anyone in the 5 families, who had plenty of killers within their own ranks, would give a contract to some guy they didn't really know or could depend on. At the end of the day, despite turncoats shedding light on their secrets, the Mafia was/is a secret criminal organization. If you have capable members, you don't subcontract. When those individuals get caught, whether it be from that murder or other crimes warranting lengthy prison terms, they would be much more liable to turn on their employers.
As for the "one book" comment, perhaps you should read my post more clearly. I mentioned two books, and believe it is a pretty strong argument that between the 1000ish pages of both, he isn't mentioned once. Everyone contributing to those two books was a close associate of the main characters, or for the most part, a member turned state's evidence. Don't you think they would've mentioned the man who, in his own words, was the top assassian in New York City?
I didnt say anything about "one book". in fact I toasted you for being the only person I have spoken to who has read BOTH of those books.
Both are great books. but DeMeo was a supporting character in The Westies and I wouldnt expect too much detail about Gemini to be in that book. They only talk about DeMeo/Gemini as their actions related to Coonan and the Westies
who would have mentioned Kuklinski? most of the gemini crew was either dead or in prison by the time Kuklinski was arrested. Dominique wouldnt have necessarily known about him.
Kuklinski (if he is truthful, and I know he has lied about other things) only dealt with DeMeo.
A lot of organized crime activities are kept even from one another. you limit your liabilities by keeping your mouth shut.
the others might have known that DeMeo was using an outside contractor, but not know who it was
you do know Kuklinski pled guilty to being the man hired by Sammy the Bull to kill a cop, right?
he was ready to testify against Sammy when he died.
these guys are all capable killers, but if you find a cold blooded serial killer who has been killing for years and getting away with it, why not hire him?
at least he cant be traced back to the 'family' if caught
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I wasn't referring to your post. I was referencing the first reply.
But, why would he not plead guilty to being The Bull's accomplice? He's never getting paroled anyway, he's a pathological liar, it helps back up all of his false claims, probably gets him a prison perk or two, and sells more books and gives legitimacy to a "Based on the True Story Of...." movie, all of which have some proceeds that go to his family.
Doesn't it bother you that no one in the Five Families backs up his claims?
why would he not plead guilty to being The Bull's accomplice
I know he pled guilty. That's why I asked 'Why wouldn't he...."
Sure, he was in prison when the book was published. But how long were they around before that? If you're a stone cold killer yourself you're bound to hear of others that perform a similiar trade. Hell, I'm an upstanding citizen but I live in a neighborhood on the South side of Chicago that produces certain members of an Italian(ish) subculture. I know of them, and don't need to wait for a book to come out about them to say, "Oh yeah, I was part of that group". And I guess you're right about anyone stepping up to say he's a liar. I guess just the same way that no one would if I lied about it.
But we could split hairs on this endlessly, or just agree to disagree. Do I know for sure? Hell no man, but I really think he is lying about this.
Bump, now that it's out.
shareYour on the money Willie. I read Murder Machine when it first came out. Nowhere is "The Iceman" mentioned. Not once. When law enforcement was doing their investigations on the lounge they do have him entering on one occasion but only once. The reason being that he bought a weapon.
When the crew was rounded up and interrogated not a single member could I.D Kaklinski.
Most of the people on here know what they know because of an HBO special and now that the movie is out, your pretty much wasting your breath. They don't want the facts...they know what they know and that's that!
Soon their going to start saying that "Murder Machine" was B.S because it failed to mention the ICEMAN!
If "The Iceman" was so true to life then why change so many names and facts?? Anyone connected is long dead or doing 600 years in jail so what's the problem?
The answer is because its partially true and partially embellished. Just like the other 99% of so-called true stories that Hollywood cranks out. Hoffa....Please!!!!
Not saying he wasn't a bad M.F. Just saying that he most likely came to the realization that he was never getting out and all he had left was his name and reputation. With absolutely nothing to lose, why not go all the way?
That's the beauty of telling a story where most of those who are allegedly involved are now dead. Whose gonna challenge it?
Most of what Richard Kuklinski said in the HBO documentaries and book "The Iceman" by Philip Carlo have been debunked and proven as lies!
The Police have compiled air tight evidence, built rock solid cases and convicted people for many of the murders Kuklinski claims to have carried out! Ex Mafia family members who have turned states evidence have actually confessed to many of the crimes The Iceman took credit for! And please bare in mind these people could not be prosecuted and had nothing to lose by admitting to the killings.
Even Philip Carlo, author of The Iceman book had to embarrassingly admit in one of his other books about another mafia figure that what he was told by Kuklinski was lies and incorrect!
In the book The Murder Machine, the Iceman is not even mentioned once! the FBI had Roy Demeo's clubhouse under surveillance for a long period of time and Kuklinski wasn't ever seen coming or going! not once in all that time! the only known record of him ever coming into contact with Roy Demeo was to buy some cheap silencers off him.
Yes the book is a good read (if very repetitive) but treat it as fiction with a sprinkling of truth. The documentaries are chilling but the man is a good actor and even during his interview with Park Dietz it's clear he's making things up on the spot.
No question about it The Iceman did kill people but the true figure's are from anywhere between 8 - 30 people! not in the hundreds
He had nothing to do with the murders of Roy DeMeo, Paul Castellano or Jimmy Hoffa
> Most of what Richard Kuklinski said in the HBO documentaries and book "The Iceman" by Philip Carlo have been debunked and proven as lies!
> He had nothing to do with the murders of Roy DeMeo, Paul Castellano or Jimmy Hoffa
What are you talking about?? I watched the HBO series. Kulkinsky never claimed that he had anything to do with the DeMeo, Castellano and Hoffa murders.
The Iceman apparently was a compulsive liar.
No doubt he did terrible things and was a man to be feared but his stories should be taken with a grain of salt.
if you read his book. he worked more for the Jersey Family than anything else
share While he definitely didn't kill Demeo, Castellano, or Hoffa(lulz), he did work on the fringes of the Demeo crew. I have read the Westies, Murder Machine, and a whole lot more on the topic.
Undoubtedly, Kuklinski's word can't be trusted, but there are some rarer surveillance pictures of Roy and Kukliniski, he just didn't make the scope of the investigations in Murder machine and there would be many reasons why killers like The Gemini crew could benefit from an outside hit man. If you don't know the reasons you don't know the mob.
People who ignore history are doomed to repeat it.