MovieChat Forums > Saw 3D (2010) Discussion > Joyce's death - a middle finger

Joyce's death - a middle finger


Many Jigsaw-apologetic fans were annoyed at Joyce's death, since they thought it made Jigsaw so evil. I think the brutaliy of her death was deliberate from the filmmakers, as if to say "Jigsaw is the VILLAIN, you idiots. Does it take something this brutal and unfair for you to realize that? After all these movies?"

The fact that Jigsaw had his own bizarre sense of morality (which he passed on to Hoffman) doesn't alter the fact that he's the villain. All evil people pretend to themselves that they're the good guys, and rationalize their actions and stances. All mass murderers in the real world have done this too. As Ayn Rand said: "No man can survive the moment of pronouncing himself irredeemably evil. Should he do it, his next moment is insanity or suicide."

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Never thought I'd agree with someone who quotes Ayn Rand, but you're right. In the very first movie of the series, he enlisted someone to murder an innocent child if Gordon didn't shoot Adam. It's only through the mom freeing herself (which even John could not have foreseen) that she wasn't killed like Joyce. If I'll give this movie one credit, it's that they reinstated the fact that John is a psychopath after 4-5 sequels somewhat trying to rationalize his behavior in a misguided attempt at "complexity".

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[deleted]

To this day, I still don’t get why so many fans complain about Joyce’s death.

Yes, she was innocent and her death was tragic, but isn’t that the point? It’s symbolic of Bobby’s deception and incompetence - once shrouded by his hero façade and now revealed.
And come on!! Let’s not make out that Jigsaw’s games, whether constructed by John, Hoffman or Amanda, were all about fairness until this point!

Saw 3D had many problems, but this wasn’t one of them as I’m concerned.

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