Whilst it was interesting to see Randall and Mike becoming friends, I was more confused on Randall's hatred towards Mike and Sully. I couldn't help but think he was disliking them as soon as he joined the higher ranks. As they say, power corrupts everything. Was Randall's hatred generated from joining the ranks, or was it because he was beaten by Sully?
Honestly though, if Randall in his geeky self was in the competition (Regardless that he must be on a team), he would've forgiven Sully and called it 'fair play'.
If you watch the movie closely and pay attention to details, there were actually a LOT of things that Sulley does which would make Randall develop at the very least a strong distrust and dislike of him. The loss in the Scare Games was just the proverbial straw that broke the camel's back, so to speak. However, the majority of the animosity we see from Randall in MI would have developed AFTER Sulley became a Scarer there, not at MU. Here's a run-down of things Sulley does which Randall would have been filing away in his mind as "Reasons Why That Sullivan Guy Is a Jerk".
1. First day of classes, Sulley shows up late, announces his presence with a huge roar, scaring Randall(who is already on the verge of a panic attack anyway)half to death, boastfully strolls into the room, immediately wins the praise of the professor in spite of his disrespectful behavior JUST because of his father's reputation, does not even bring supplies to class, borrows a pencil from another student and picks his teeth with it, then props up his feet on the back of another student's chair and acts like he's too good for everyone else. Now, had YOU been in that class, what would YOUR first impression of Mr. Sullivan had been?
2. Sulley caused the whole debacle with the pig. Even though Randall was not there when Sulley mistook Mike and Randall's dorm for his own and put a stolen pig inside, overturned the book shelf, making a huge mess everywhere, you can guarantee that Mike filled Randall in on every sordid detail later, so Randall would have known about that, would have known of the Great Pig Chase of '91 leading to Frat Row, would have known that Sulley once again got the praise and stole the spotlight even though MIKE actually caught the pig, that Sulley had insulted Mike and told him that he didn't have a chance as a Scarer...and that it was Sulley's fault that the pig was running around, anyway, thus resulting in the pig careening into Randall as he was trying to offer the cupcakes to the gals from HSS. It was Sulley's fault that the cupcakes wound up on Randall's face, resulting in his evening going very, very badly, with him being horribly humiliated, his worst fear.
3. Randall would have witnessed repeated incidents of Sulley belittling Mike, whom Randall was still trying to make friends with and still respected.
4. At the football game, while Mike is studying and ignoring the hell out of Randall(some "friend", huh?), Sulley dumps soda and popcorn all over Randall from above...and doesn't even notice, let alone apologize for it. You can see Randall(who is looking like a deer in the headlights through most of this scene, left out in the cold by his so-called "friend") giving him a "what the heck, dude" look.
5. In the class on exam day, ooh, boy...Sulley acts like a First-Class Jerk, comes in deliberately knocks Mike's books onto the floor, trying to provoke a fight. That alone would have a very good reason for Randall to dislike him. Randall tries to keep peace by suggesting that he and Mike just move and sit somewhere else, but Mike is ticked off and rises to the challenge. As a result of Sulley's provocation, Mike winds up getting kicked out of the Scare Program, and Randall KNOWS how important that was to Mike. In fact, it was the only thing Mike really cared about, period. Not only that, but when SULLEY knocks over the Scream Canister and it goes off, zooming around class like a missile, it actually grazes Randall's chin at one point; that's how close it came to hitting him, and if it HAD hit him, it probably would have decapitated him! That, too, was Sullivan's fault, and to make things worse, he NEVER acknowledges this or apologizes to anyone.
So we have all those things, just in the course of one semester, that would have caused Randall to think of Sulley in not-so-good terms, though he's still keeping those thoughts to himself. Now as far as Mike and Randall's "friendship", well, that was rather one-sided. Randall was the only one actually interested in a friendship there, a REAL friendship, that involved doing fun things as well as studying, and involved give and take on BOTH sides. We see Randall repeatedly try, unsuccessfully, to get Mike to hang out with him socially. Mike is all too happy to take advantage of Randall's willingness to help him study, though. Mike's priorities are all centered around becoming, in his words, "the greatest Scarer ever". Randall wants to make friends at last, be accepted by ANYONE, and not be considered a "joke" any longer, and sees college as his opportunity to improve that situation. He's a very lonely outcast, starved for companionship and for acceptance. Mike isn't mean to him, but Mike makes it clear that he's not interested in anything that does not involve studying and preparing for HIS goal, following HIS dream. Mike is not willing to compromise and do fun things that Randall wants to do. To Randall, that must have seemed as though it was his fault that Mike didn't want to be friends and do things that friends do, that is, until later, when he sees that Mike NOW appears to be friends with James P. Sullivan. Randall knows Sulley's family background and reputation, so most likely assumed that Mike's choosing Sulley as a friend over him had to do with that, choosing someone important over a nerdy little nobody. Ironically, Mike felt exactly the same way about Sulley that Randall did, only Mike gets to find out the truth behind that boastful exterior out at the lake in the Human World, and Randall never does, so he goes on believing that Sulley is loved and admired because of his family name, that he "can mess up over and over again and everyone will still love him", to quote Mike's very words. It's a case of Haves vs. Have Nots.
Randall NEVER, ever had any power while he was in ROR. Randall put the "Omega" in Roar Omega Roar. He was terrified of Johnny Worthington, and we NEVER even hear him speak once he joins them, until that line about that being the last time he was losing to Sullivan. Watch how he puts his hand up to his mouth when he tells Mike, "don't blow this for me, Mike"; it's in that conspiratorial way that people use when they aren't supposed to be telling the other person anything. Randall is literally not ALLOWED to associate with Mike anymore, whether he wants to or not. Johnny's main reason for inviting him to join ROR-and face it, Randall did NOT fit their image at all-was to isolate Mike, to make an example of Mike by taking away the only person on campus willing to associate with him at all. Randall's choices were to obey Johnny and do whatever he said, or face what Randall probably thought would be some painful form of retribution from his much-larger frat "brothers". They were using him, plain and simple, and while he did get a false sense of security and success while with them, it was just that: false. Their real opinions of him were revealed when he lost to Sulley. What he thought was his only chance at acceptance turned out to be something that just further highlighted his own isolation.
And speaking of that loss, it was Sulley's direct action that caused Randall to lose in the first place. Sulley stomped on the floor, causing Randall to fall onto that rug with the hearts, and honestly, that should NOT have been allowed to stand, intentional or not. Randall had no way to know that Sulley had NOT done that on purpose, to sabotage Randall's Scare, and Sulley had no way to know that his actions had caused his opponent to fall, either. From Randall's perspective, Sulley won by CHEATING, dishonestly, and got away with it just because he was a Sullivan. His actions not only caused Randall to lose, but resulted in his worst nightmare; he is publicly humiliated and jeered in front of THOUSANDS of spectators. For someone like him, with a borderline phobia of that in the first place, this is comparable to dumping a box load of spiders onto someone who is arachnophobic while they are up on a stage in front of thousands of people. THAT is going to leave a deep, deep emotional scar. Randall is yelled at and kicked out of ROR, in front of everyone...and it's Sullivan's fault, intended or not. If Randall found out that Sulley also cheated to help Mike win, AND later got himself arrested by the CDA for breaking the law, destroying a lab and lots of others students' work, and got kicked out of college, what opinion would he have had of Sullivan, then? What opinion would YOU have had? Years later, at MI, that same guy is STILL being put up on a pedestal, though. He's risen to the position of Top Scarer from having been just a mail room worker. He's a known cheater with a big family name and reputation. He's now best buds with the CEO. He gets 100 points for filling his Scream Canister while Randall only gets 75 for doing the exact same thing! He's been "Employee of the Month" for 11 months straight out of literally thousands of employees...and he's a known cheater. Worst of all, he's best friends with the person Randall tried to be friends with and looked up so much in college; Randall wasn't good enough to be Mike's friend, but Sulley was. How would YOU feel in Randall's situation? The fact that Randall appears to be the only one who has problems with that, or maybe he's the only one who actually is open and honest about how he feels, doesn't say much for the other employees. Either they are stupid, or they're very good at keeping their opinions to themselves and pretend to be caught up the "Cult of Personality" surrounding James P. Sullivan, while secretly harboring the same feelings against him that Randall openly expresses.
Wow, you got all that and written on it too? You give this too much thought.
And in trying to look smart there's just one thing you miss: Mike does nothing to deserve any dislike by Randall. Except for the fact that he makes his study serious instead of partying from day 1. Yeah, maybe Mike is dilikeable, according to Randall, but how twisted he was, I don't see hatred coming from this.
As for Sullivan. I think you really are looking for reasons for Randall to dislike/ hate him. Even got your own interpretations on what actions would do to Randall.
Let's face it, this movie was no masterpiece of any sorts. If they wanted us to know/ remember/ understand something in the light of Monsters, Inc. they would have it there, with sirens, confetti, bright lights and everything.
The only reason that Randall came to dislike Mike was because of his association with Sulley, the fact that Mike thought that Sulley was worthy of his friendship, but Randall wasn't. Mike rejected Randall's overtures of friendship at MU; while not being mean or blunt about it, he still made it pretty darned clear that he had no interest in being real friends with Randall. Mike actually tells him in so many words that "we'll have plenty of time to go to parties once we become Scarers", in other words, "we can be friends once we graduate and find jobs...in FOUR years, but you'll have to wait until then." Who wants to do that? But then, in the second semester, Mike is now willing to go to a party...with the OK's, with Sulley. He's apparently friends with Sulley, and it's emphasized throughout the movie that Sulley has a famous Scarer for a father. ANY person, who'd been earlier rejected, would have to wonder why the person you'd tried to befriend picked So-and-So over YOU. Mike's own words to Sulley out at the lake explain pretty much how Randall would have felt, as well. Later, in MI, Mike deliberately rubs his and Sulley's success, and therefore Randall's failure, in his face, adding fuel to that fire.
A GOOD movie does NOT have everything they want you to know "there, with sirens, confetti, bright lights and everything". That's how you'd made movies for idiots, who lack any ability to see any deeper than what's beyond the surface. Way back in my high school days, back when they actually taught things like this, my AP Lit teacher reminded us that the most important reading(or in this case, viewing)is that which is between the lines-THAT is where you get the most out of what the author or filmmaker was saying. If you can't read there, best stick with Nick, Jr.
So here is the part where I get corrected. I agree, there are movies where you read between the lines, make your own truth, or haveto decide what storry you like to believe. But, unless you disagree with me on this, this movie was in first place intended for children. The message had to be clear (if any) and the actions and in-between-the-lines-part had to be on that level of thought (forgive me for not being native english) for the 'public' to pick up.
Your basic argument is "it's a kid's movie, therefor it deserves no deeper analysis". Which is fine, but that's your opinion. No need to be harsh on those who feel differently. To many people kids movies in particular deserve deeper analysis, for a variety of reasons.
Pitbulldaddy covered this nicely, but I had a couple more things I wanted to point out. In his first few scenes with Mike a lot of info is relayed about Randall. We learn he's friendly, a bit awkward, and eager to make friends. After meeting Mike he even says offhandedly, "I wish I had your confidence!" That one line tells us a lot about Randall. Aside from being a genuine compliment towards Mike (again, Randall's a nice guy), it tells us he's not very confident in himself. It also might be a hint at part of what later bothers him about Mike. What he first admired in his friend he later hates about his enemy.
My second point is more of a personal annoyance so make of it what you will. At the first party Randall gets his cupcakes accidentally thrown on him. They land on his face and spell out "lame". It actually really bugged me because at that point in the film (and within the reality of the Monsters world) Randall is still a nice guy. He hasn't done a single mean thing by then; he's only been incredibly friendly and even likable. I know it was more of an inside joke for the audience but it felt really mean spirited towards his character. We all know he later becomes a bad guy but calling him lame at that point in the movie just seemed kind of wrong to me. But like I said it's more of a personal annoyance, I'm sure most others didn't mind it.
I agree with you about the cupcake incident, sigmundfreud79, in that it WAS harsh and really unfair to Randall, who at this point was a naive, innocent, and sweet kid, but I think that Dan Scanlon had a reason for doing that. He was trying to establish a pattern of such things happening to Randall, over and over, with Randall attempting to make friends and just be liked and accepted, and having his efforts thrown back in his face repeatedly. It establishes a patter of rejection and of being ignored/shunned by others, in spite of his efforts to fit in and be recognized for something. One of the other members on the Bogg's Board(yes, Randall's fans have had a discussion board now for many years) had brought up the theory that Randall's unique ability to blend in with his background might be symbolic as well as literal(oh, dear, I'm actually THINKING about such things in an animated movie, how horrible of me), in that to others, Randall is "invisible" in more ways than one. No matter what he does, no matter how hard he works, he can't get recognized for it. He's always overshadowed by someone else, and IF Sulley had beaten him honestly in the Scare Games, or IF Randall had not had so much riding on that win, it would not have made that big a deal, but Randall came away from that with the point, "cheaters DO win". I'm sure that you are familiar with Mazlow's Hierarchy of Need, so you probably understand that to a social, advanced being, such as ourselves, or in this case, the monsters in their universe, being accepted and welcomed by your peers and feeling appreciated, loved and being TOLD that you're appreciated is third only behind 1)basic sustenance like food, water and oxygen and 2)shelter/protection from the elements in the survival of such organisms. Deprived of that, a sapient being is going to suffer extremely, both physically and emotionally, and their behavior is going to start to deteriorate. For whatever reasons, others wanted nothing to do with Randall. For the most part, they simply ignored him. Being ignored, especially over long periods of time, or being deprived of basic companionship, actually triggers powerful activity in the same part of the brain that is responsible for perceiving physical pain, so for someone to be treated like that for years, would have as much effect on them as being in severe physical pain over a long period of time. There is no way that's NOT going to have a profound negative effect on their mental, emotional and physical state. You can actually LOOK at pictures of Randall in MI, and compare them to Randall in MU, and see how the years have affected his appearance, vs. how much that same time frame has changed Mike's and Sulley's appearances. I really am hoping that Pixar is going to tell Randall's full story in a real sequel. Dan Scanlon already has stated that MU "is just the second in a long line of 'Monsters' films", so I'm pretty certain there will be at least one more in this franchise. There was no reason to include Randall in MU EXCEPT to establish that he was NOT mean or spiteful by default, but to show that his experiences gradually turned him into what we saw in MI. Of the three main monster characters who have appeared in both movies now, only Randall has not really been the main focus of a movie. MI was largely from Sulley's POV, and MU was definitely the "Mike Wazowski Appreciation Movie". The only reason I can think of for even having Randall appear in MU in the first place was to set up a premise of him experiencing a future "heel-face turn", which would seem more plausible if people had seen that he was a nice guy to begin with. Most fans never really questioned why Randall hated Sulley; they just assumed that he'd always been a jerk so it was just natural for him to hate a "good" guy like Sulley and be jealous of anyone's success, but MU showed that not to be the case, so his inclusion really gives me hope that Pixar showed how he really was in order to whet our appetites for more of his story, and that they are going to tell HIS story eventually.
I cannot make myself read these enormous amounts of words Pitbulllady delivers with every reply. That is on me, I know. Just wanting to apoligize in advance for not adressing every issue Pibulllady may or may not have discussed.
There is a mistake in the Maslow pyramid though (the mistake being on Pitbullady, not on Maslow, ofcourse. Though he could be wrong about anything, I just don't want to give the impression I am better than him, or anyone) with the need for acceptance being named 3rd most important. It is in fact 4th, third most important would be social intercourse (hope I don't write something stupid now) no matter on what level of acceptance.
Maybe I have been unclear about my point. I am not saying don't analyze it. I am saying don't analyse it too much. If we had to pick all that up, make it into a workable hypothesis and then analyze the truth behind it, what fun is that movie? I mean no disrespect to anyone, already apologized to pitbullady in another thread, but come on! All that? At least been viewing the movie twice and making notes the second time. I even suspect maybe an essay or paper on Randall for psychology 101 in school or college.
And in the end, yes, we could and maybe should give it some thought, but then I believe the filmcrew did it not all that good. From what we see happening to Randall we have to believe he turns from a likeable, decent yet insecure kid into a snakelike, plotting, doubblecrossing even [u]manslau[/u] monsterslaughtering guy? Bad job on them, that's what I say. I believe (on a side note) that 7,4/ 10 is rated way to high. Especially since I liked Monsters Inc. a lot and thought 8/ 10 would be about spot on. But then, as Pitbullady says in her closing sentence, it might give an opportunity to do a sequel to this prequel and see what happens in the years in between.
Sulley was exactly the sort of individual that MOST of us either are repelled by, or want to attach ourselves to in order to better our own social standing. He was a kid from a famous family, who basically had always gotten what he wanted based on that fact alone. When we first meet him in MU, he's several minutes late to class on the first day, feels it necessary to announce his presence with that roar, doesn't even bother to bring any supplies to class, borrows a pencil from another student(who seemed rather star-struck to be in the presence of a Sullivan), then PICKS HIS TEETH with it, and puts his feet up on the back of a chair like he's at home watching tv. And the professor DOES NOT say a word to him about it! Now, right off the bat, that would have left a very bad first impression on me, had I been in that class! The thing is, Mike gets to find out that there's another side to Sulley, a side that Randall never gets to see. All Randall knows is that Sulley is a self-centered a--hole, as you put it, he's a rich, privileged kid who gets his way and gets by with everything because of his family name(basically Mike tells him the exact same thing out at the lake in the Human World), everyone treats him special because he's a Sullivan, he's a CHEATER, for crying out loud, and by the time of the events of MI, Sulley has been beating Power Ball jackpot odds to be Employee of the Month for 11 months straight, and he's even buddy-buddy with the company CEO. Logically, no one is going to be "all that" to the extent that Sulley was, and Randall knew that something dishonest had to be behind that, and he was probably right. I still think that the worst hurt, though, was the fact that Mike was willing to be friends with Sulley, in spite of Sulley treating him like dirt at first, and wanted nothing to do with Randall other than to take advantage of him as a study buddy, in spite of Randall making every effort to befriend Mike. Mike wasn't willing to go to parties with Randall, but he was willing to go to one with Sulley and the OK's. Try to imagine how much that must have hurt, and likely this was just a continuation of a pattern that marked Randall's life from the start-"you aren't GOOD enough. You never WILL be good enough. You're not one of the 'cool kids'" He'd hung all his hopes on Mike being the first to break that pattern and actually be a true friend, someone who wouldn't judge him and look down upon him or treat him as an inferior, and then Mike snubs Randall's friendship and winds up becoming friends with a rich kid who has a famous family name and acts as though Randall is no longer worth speaking with from that point on. Try to imagine how that felt.
Being Humiliated in the Scare Games probably did trigger their rivalry in Monsters Inc., yet I'm not sure how he found Jeff Fungus to be his assistant. Yet he even went against Mike too for some reason.
I know that Pitbullady's posts appear verbose, but they are all so 100% spot-on, thorough, insightful, and well-written that I LOVE to read them! She has a fabulous understanding of everything she talks about, and great ideas of her own. Of course, she usually leaves it so that there's little more to add, heheh. But I've yet to disagree with a single point she makes. To look at the events of both films through Randall's eyes is to see quite clearly that, while he is certainly no flawless saint of a monster, everything he has experienced and interpreted is completely understandable and consistent with the psychology of humans who share his personality type. He's one of the most sympathetic, complex, believable, under-scrutinized, misunderstood and maligned characters I've ever seen. This is due to the extreme level of detail and nuance in Pixar films; they're not mere entertainment, but windows into fully realized and fascinating alternate worlds/dimensions. It's hard to OVER-analyze them! (And just as we've gotten a glimpse of how non-evil Randall truly is, we've also now observed that, while Sullivan does change for the better in some ways as he matures, he is still a very flawed "hero" who started out as a downright obnoxious, outrageously overconfident jerk. Probably not what anyone was expecting from the laid-back giant teddy bear or "Kitty" portrayed in MI.)
It's a tragedy that such an uncommon sweetheart as Randy was used, abused, and/or ignored instead of finding the friend he needed--someone to value him for who he is. Sadly, he had to take away a "nice guys clearly finish last" lesson from the whole miserable experience! Man, was he adorable. I love how he tries to persuade Mike to go meet the other students and have some fun...the way he emphasizes the fact that *sororities* (girls!) will be there is totally cute. Then we see him offering his tray of cupcakes to Nadya and Sonia, two of the HSS goths. Not even in a flirty, trying-to-look-macho-for-them way...just innocently attempting to extend a quiet, gentle hand of friendship. He has no idea how naive, childish, or dorky he looks to all the "cool kids" on campus. He'd have fit right in with the OKs, actually, if he hadn't been offered what he thought was the chance to fit in and be liked/accepted by everyone (joining ROR, aka "falling in with a bad crowd.") Before either girl can react, that cruel "Lame" moment occurs--and while you can take it as a light joke, it really does seem quite cruel when you think about it! Randy's not lame at all, if you ask me. I'd have been his friend, if you know what I mean. ;) Nadya's and Sonia's reactions to the cupcake mess are subtle...raised eyebrows, slight headshakes and smirks...but at least they're not outright cruel and mocking. (I would think that of everyone, they'd be some of the more likely people to sympathize with outcasts!)
You would have kinda thought that Sonia and Nadya would have been a bit more sympathetic, given that Goth kids are usually looked down upon and seen as "outcasts" themselves, at least in OUR culture. Maybe it was different in the Monster World, seeing as how some things, at least, are viewed quite the opposite of how WE see them. Being cute and adorable, for instance, is a big negative to the monsters, while coming across as fierce and menacing is a plus. At least the two HSS girls didn't openly ridicule Randall, as I'm sure his self-esteem was already taking a tremendous battering as it was. It's so sad that he did "fall in with a bad crowd", and even though there are moments when he seems to be gaining some confidence and pride in himself, he is never completely at ease in ROR and never fits in with them at all, and he's clearly intimidated by Johnny. He's not going to disobey Johnny or defy him, whatever Johnny orders him to do, and it's a moot point as to whether Johnny would have actually retaliated, physically, had Randall gone against him. Randall BELIEVES that he would, so while he wants to impress the ROR president and get in his good graces, and prove that he's worthy of staying in ROR, he's also scared. His terrified reaction to Johnny calling his last name at the Scare Games sign-ups is evidence enough, along with the fact that we never, ever hear Randall even speak once he's in ROR, after that point, until his line about not losing to Sullivan again. How happy or content can someone be if they're either not allowed to talk, or feel afraid to speak up? All it would have taken, to have changed the course of Randall's life, was ONE true friend, ONE individual who would have accepted him, believed in him, and been willing to show that, not only where academics was involved, either. I think that a lot of the people who say that Mike and Randall were once friends fail to realize that friendship is two-way. You cannot have a friendship where only one person is willing to give of their time for the other, where only one is willing to compromise doing the things that are important to THEM. Being nice to someone doesn't make you a "friend", and being a friend doesn't mean always being nice, either. Randall had those who were willing to USE him, to take advantage of his good nature and desire to help others and be accepted, but no one who was a genuine friend. He just experiences one rejection and failure after the other, through no fault of his own, and it gradually robs him of his faith in others and his ability to trust others. When someone is in such a situation, their Ego(using the true psychological meaning, as opposed to the popular and misused meaning)tries to salvage itself, and therefore the life of the individual, by externalizing negative things, putting blame, in other words, on someone else. Through the years, James Sullivan became the recipient of Randall's negative emotions more and more, due to circumstances that Randall(and any logical person)would have perceived as unfairly biased in Sulley's favor. He'd known Sulley as a jerk and a cheater from college, who actually got ARRESTED for breaking the law and was kicked out of college...but here is that same guy, now buddy-buddy with the company CEO, now top of EVERYTHING, beating Powerball jackpot odds just in getting "Employee of the Month" out of THOUSANDS of just Scarers alone, so what else would Randall have thought was behind that astounding and meteoric success? Everything is about SullivanSullivanSullivan and how wonderful and amazing he is, while Randall, even though VERY close in points behind Sulley, is ignored, pushed aside for the most part, and Randall does not have friends in high places to help him out, or even a competent assistant. He and Fungus are not really a team, as badly matched and incompatible as they are, so Randall's success really is his alone, for the most part, while Sulley had Mike...and probably a lot of behind-the-scenes "tweaking" of the numbers by his old pal, Waternoose, to keep Randall out of his comfort zone and insure HIS cooperation on that little side project. The thing to wonder about is NOT why Randall came to hate Sulley so much, but why HE was the only one who expressed that, as well as how he managed to hold up and hang onto his last shred of sanity and not experience that inevitable mental/emotional breakdown for as long as he did.
I love all the analysis in this thread. I get why it's not some people's "cup of tea", and that's fine. To them, it's not fun going in deeper....but to us it is. I do rather dislike people saying something to the effect that we're over-analyzing something that they think doesn't merit such level of analysis. I want to point out Moff's Law to counter that: http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/MoffsLaw
Anyways, I feel MU did a terrific job in deepening Randall's character. I actually think Randall has potential to be a better character than Mike & Sullivan and to have an even more meaningful quality story. I hope you're right and the third movie is about him.
Thank you, BlitzWing00! One of my biggest "beefs" is with people who do not feel that ANIMATED movies deserve deeper analysis, nor ANIMATED characters...just live-action ones do. It's that whole insipid "animation is just for little kids" garbage. Just because a movie has elements to appeal to young children does not mean that it lacks in-depth character development or plot progression that intrigue adults. Pixar does a great job of balancing both, fortunately.
As for Randall, yes, I think that Dan Scanlon did him justice in MU by showing all the world that contrary to what some of Randall's haters(or the villain fans who love characters BECAUSE they perceive them as evil) had been insisting, Randall was NOT a horrible guy by default, someone who'd always been nasty-tempered and disagreeable. SOMETHING happened to him to make him the way we see him in MI; he sure didn't choose to be like that! What Scanlon did, without having Randall's story take over and steal Mike's thunder(though I wouldn't have minded that), was to establish that Randall was a naive, innocent and lonely kid, desperate for attention and friendship, who had a very poor self-image and wanted to improve it by "getting in good with the cool kids", i.e., those who were NOT like him. We can only speculate as to why Randall did not think well of himself, but thought that the "cool kids" were better off than him and more likely to be successful than him, but it was clear that he had had very little social contacts with his own age group and was really in the dark about just what really WAS "cool" or trendy or acceptable. He saw college as a chance to change that situation. THAT was Randall's dream, just as Mike's dream was to become "the greatest Scarer in the world", and Randall's dream failed just as miserably. MU sets up that pattern of him either being rejected, as he was by Mike, or used, as he was by the ROR's, or simply ignored, as he was by pretty much everyone else. Randall did NOT bring any of that on himself, as some of his haters have still maintained. Who WOULDN'T try to better their social situation, to have friends, to make contacts that might be able to help you out later in life? Randall starts out not even on the bottom rung of that "social ladder", so where else WOULD he try to go but UP? I don't understand why people hate him so much just for that. It's a bit like Queen Antoinette, being informed that the peasants were starving and had no bread, saying, "well, let them eat CAKE", someone who HAS criticizing someone who has NOT for simply wanting a little. I still hope that Pixar has more in store for Randall, since it seems a horrible cruelty to show that he was, by default, a good guy whose life just spiraled out of control through circumstances that he really had little to do with, only to let that story end with him possibly being beaten to death and eaten by Cajuns in a wretched little fish camp trailer on a Louisiana bayou, and those who sent him there getting away, literally, with murder.
I don't understand why people hate him so much just for that.
I think a lot of people are too used to simple one-dimensional characters and find it difficult to appreciate complex characters. It's the false dichotomy of thinking they should only like and cheer for the "good guys", and boo and hate the "bad guys". It hard for them to see the shades of grey when they're so conditioned to see black and white.
Personally, I think it's much more interesting when characters are more complex than just stereotypes. I don't like being "told" by the movie who I should like and what I should think (I'm looking at you, James Cameron's Avatar). The brilliant thing about MU is it doesn't force anything like that down our throats, and the movie is much more interesting because of that. I was so expecting Mike's room mate to be Sullivan because it's predictably logical (and boring) for that to happen. However I was very pleasantly surprised it turned out to be Randall, and it made the whole movie more interesting (and real) because of it. "Bad guys" not really being "bad guys", with real motives other than just doing bad to be bad. This separates the brainless movies from the good movies.
Regarding Animated movies and Live Action Movies, it's not the tools used to make the movie or it's style which determines if the movie is garbage / "just for little kids", it's the content and overall whole package. The story and characters in Avatar were so bad, I would say it's "just for little kids" even though it's for "adults".
I still hope that Pixar has more in store for Randall, since it seems a horrible cruelty to show that he was, by default, a good guy whose life just spiraled out of control through circumstances that he really had little to do with, only to let that story end with him possibly being beaten to death and eaten by Cajuns in a wretched little fish camp trailer on a Louisiana bayou, and those who sent him there getting away, literally, with murder.
I hope there's more in store for Randall too. I think it's a logical next step for a few reasons. As you said before, MI and MU have focused mostly on Sullivan and then Mike. Also both movies have explored so very little of the human world and the relationship between the Monster World & Human World. We also still have other banished Monsters in the Human World such as the Yeti, Bigfoot, Loch Ness, and the others that was mentioned. If they wanted to expand on the Human World and tie up loose ends with the banished monsters, it makes sense it would heavily involve Randall. The predictable (and boring) thing to do is to have Randall gather an army in the Human World to invade the Monster World which Mike & Sullivan have to stop. The more interesting thing to do is to tell a story from Randall's perspective of being a banished monster, what lead him there, and where he goes from there. I know which one I'd definitely prefer seeing.
Anyways, I hope this is the direction the third movie is going to take, I don't know where else they could take the series at this point. The Prequel thing of MU seemed gimmicky at first but it worked very well in the end. The next movie would probably have to be a sequel. reply share
This is the sort of post that makes me wish there was a "LIKE" button, so I could click away at it! I absolutely agree here with everything you just said, and then some!
I totally agree on NOT wanting to see a "Randall Returns and Tries to Get Revenge On Mike and Sulley". I can't think of anything more jaded, predictable and "Saturday Morning Cartoon", and that WOULD be genuinely childish-"And I would have gotten away with it, too, if it hadn't been for Sullivan and Wazowski and that meddling kid"! Now seriously, who would find that the least bit original or unexpected? Pixar is famous for plot twists, for not having things work out quite as everyone figured. That is part of the reason why so many people were a bit shocked, to say the least, at how things turned out for Mike and Sulley in MU. It didn't follow that linear route when it came to their success, and wound up becoming rather controversial, in fact. A storyline in which Randall winds up becoming the hero would certainly surprise a lot of folks, too, although now, at least, it would be more plausible, now that Pixar has revealed that he did not start out as a "bad guy". I've always seen Randall as one of those "gray" characters, and honestly, real people are like that, most of the time. Very, very few individuals are just totally evil or totally good. Unfortunately, as you said, many people do still cling to that very childish concept of everyone being either good or evil, which makes it hard for some to accept the notion of people being able to change, according to their circumstances. In fact, speaking of a character arc for Randall, there actually does exist a script for a sequel to MI, written by the now-defunct Circle 7 Studio, a division of Disney Feature Animation created by then-CEO of Disney, Michael Eisner, for the purpose of generating direct-to-DVD sequels of Pixar's movies, of which Disney owned completely the characters and franchises. Word has it that the script was actually very, very good, and it does take place almost totally in the Human World, and it does feature a full "heel-face turn" for Randall, who winds up being the one who saves everyone else, Boo included, from Henry Waternoose, who has escaped from prison. Ironically, this was written long before MU was even a thought in anyone's head, and I say "ironic" because a big part of the plot involves Randall and MIKE teaming up to try to get back to the Monster World, and of course, now we know that they were once roommates at college and Randall had helped Mike to study so Mike could get those good grades, so they'd worked together before.
The more we talk about Randall's "redemption", the more I want to see that movie. Unfortunately we'll have to wait a few years for it to come out....hopefully not another 12 years. It's promising if there was a script covering it, that means at least the idea is out there on an official level and they know about it.
Randall, who winds up being the one who saves everyone else, Boo included, from Henry Waternoose, who has escaped from prison.
Waternoose....that's another excellent example of a great character. Clearly he was supposed to be the twist top "bad guy" in MI, but he wasn't really that "evil" even. His motives were clear and understandable, he was trying to save his company and solve the problem of impending power shortages that would have affected all the monsters. Waternoose didn't even hate Sullivan & Mike, he was upset he had to banish Sullivan, his top scarer. Sure he wanted to kidnap a few kids to hook up to the machine, but there was no malice intentions in his plans. He was doing what he felt had to be done for the welfare of the monsters, he was in a difficult position. Even Randall was neutral to Boo, he didn't seem to have anything against her nor took any great pleasure in scaring and kidnapping her. He was just doing what was expected of him by Waternoose, his boss. The only great pleasure Randall had was beating the crap out of Sullivan, and we both know the reasons for that....yet Randall still had to be told to do that by Waternoose before he actually did it.
That's the brilliant thing about MI and MU, who were the real "bad guys" in those movies? Nobody really. I guess in MU the ROR guys are the closest because they didn't seem to have a reasonable motivation for being elitist...but really they were more jerks than "bad guys".
As for Waternoose being the main antagonist of the third movie, I'm not sure what a reasonable motivation would be for him. At the end of MI, Sullivan & Mike have solved the energy shortage by making kids laugh. It wouldn't make sense for Waternoose to interfere with that, and the revenge motivation seems unreasonably "bad guy-ish" and boring. I would prefer seeing Randall fighting for something nobler than thwarting someone seeking revenge. Perhaps Randall desperately trying to prevent the humans from learning the existence of the monster world, thereby protecting it even though he's been banished. This would also be an opportunity to expand on why the CDA is so extreme in maintaining the secret and segregation. The CDA, or at least "#1" Roz, seems to know kids are not toxic, yet they still go to such great lengths make everybody think otherwise and wanted Sullivan to never see Boo again. reply share
Waternoose was a prime example of "absolute power corrupts absolutely". Yes, there was a matter of family pride for him in MI. His family had founded the company, after all, and since that time there'd been a Waternoose at the helm. HOWEVER, the fact that company included the term, "Incorporated" in its official name meant that now it no longer belonged to any one individual or family, but to stock holders, as a publicly traded company. Henry J. Waternoose III was just the CEO, and while that was a position of power and authority, even HE had to answer to the Board of Directors, which would have been made up of the people who owned and controlled the most stocks in the company. They had the authority to hire or fire anyone as CEO. The company would NOT have "gone under", no matter what Waternoose claimed as his reasoning for doing what he did. That's not how publicly traded utilities function. It could have either declared bankruptcy, and been allowed to work out its financial difficulties that way, and many companies that we're familiar with here in the Human World have in fact done that, yet they are still around, still viable. OR, it could have been bought out and taken over by another utilities company, like Fear Co. The only difference that the customers would have seen had that happened would be a different logo on their monthly utilities bills once the take-over was complete. That also happens, every day, in the utilities market. The company that provides people in our area with electricity has changed hands many times during my lifetime and has gone through some rough economic times as well, but not once has it simply shut down and left customers without electricity. That claim was simply a ruse by Waternoose to justify his attempts to remain in power indefinitely. He was already on thin ice with the BOD, as he indicates to Sulley during their conversation on the Scare Floor at the coffee machine. They had probably given him a ultimatum to get his act together, or face being voted out as CEO and replaced, and that was simply unthinkable. He could not accept the possibility that for the first time since its inception, the company his grandfather had founded would no longer have a Waternoose occupying a position of power. He was not trying to "save the company", just his own job, and the bad thing was, he was willing to use anyone in order to make that a reality. He was using Randall, of course, to design and build that Scream Extractor, knowing fully well that he was taking advantage of Randall's weakness, his desire to please someone he looked up to and an even greater desire to finally be recognized and accepted, instead of being ignored. I also have no doubt that Waternoose was taking advantage of Sulley, as well, deliberately playing him and Randall against one another, and probably doing some behind-the-scenes tweaking of the Scare Board numbers to make sure that Sulley, not Randall, got on the top of the board and stayed there. Note that when Sulley and Randall both fill their respective Scream canisters to the maximum, Sulley gets 100 points for doing so, while Randall only gets 75. That would be like a teacher grading two students' tests, identical tests, in which both students got all of the answers correct, and giving one student a 100, an A+, while giving the other student a 75, a D, even though both had the exact same answers! Waternoose also makes a point of publicly praising and recognizing Sulley for his accomplishments, while ignoring Randall, as we see when he praises Sulley for "just happening" upon a "slumber party", while he says absolutely nothing to Randall for having actually, albeit briefly, topped the Scare Board. Randall was actually just a few points behind Sulley, and when you consider that Randall did NOT have a "friend in high places" to help him out, nor did he even have a competent and helpful assistant, as Sulley did, AND in addition to his regular full-time job, he also had that little side project of Waternoose's, that is really a pretty remarkable feat in and of itself. But Randall gets no real recognition at all, as all the glory and praise go to Sulley. That was no accident. Waternoose was smart, and he had not gotten where he was by not knowing people and knowing how to manipulate others to his advantage. He knew that Randall was desperate to be recognized for his accomplishments, he knew that Randall was fundamentally an honest individual who despised cheaters, who would NOT normally have been willing to take such a huge risk by doing something as illegal as bringing in those "deadly" human children to extract their Screams. To get Randall to that point, where he'd be willing to risk everything just to gain what most people take for granted, Waternoose had to make sure that Randall could NOT get that recognition and respect and acceptance by any other means. Waternoose has to keep Randall from getting too deep in his "comfort zone", in other words, by simply performing his regular job, and to make sure that Randall could NOT get what he wanted, Waternoose had to make sure that SOMEONE else did, and who better than someone Randall already knew and distrusted as a cheater, someone with a big-shot family name behind him? Waternoose was pretending to be a close friend of Sulley, cultivating the "cronyism", while using him just as he was using Randall. Any truly concerned boss would have noticed tensions growing between the two long before things escalated to that point where the movie starts out, and taken measures to prevent things from getting worse, like putting Randall and Sulley on different Scare Floors, and would have noticed Randall's mental and emotional state deteriorating long before HE got to that point, and insisted on him getting some sort of help. There is no way that any company would have hired Randall in the first place if he'd acted like that when he first applied, and if they did, they would not have kept him for long! That really indicates to me that when he first went to work at MI, his demeanor and attitude and behavior was still friendly and he was able to work well with others, and that whatever lead to his "meltdown" happened well AFTER he went to work at MI. His justifiable anger at being beaten in MU in the Scare Games was a one-time reaction, not a complete and permanent change of character, as many have suggested. I dare anyone to claim that they would not be angry, hurt or upset themselves if THEY were beaten by someone they believed had been cheating, especially if they believed that the cheater had gotten away with that just because of their family name and reputation!
The other indicator that shows that Waternoose was not the sweet old guy just looking out for the company's best interests is the fact that he kept a door specifically for the purpose of "banishing" anyone who got in his way. Banishment, from what logic tells me, was not something that just any monster could do to another monster they believed had slighted them in some way. It was, rather, a punishment handed down by a court, by a jury or judge, following a trial, upon being indicted for a very serious crime. We know that they DID have a legal/judicial system, as indicated by Mike's comment to a co-worker about "how was jury duty" early in the movie. It makes no sense that every monster could simply thrown someone into the Human World for whatever reason they felt justified that; had that been the case, their world would have lawless chaos, and clearly that was not the case. Not only that, but if any monster had the right to do that to anyone else, their world would have emptied out pretty fast, and OUR world would facing one heckuva population explosion! There'd be as many monsters as humans living here! So no, Waternoose did not legally own that door leading to the Himalayas. That was his way of silencing his enemies, his version of cement shoes and a really deep lake. While I don't consider him "evil", I do consider him largely amoral, incapable of really empathizing those he was taking such advantage of, able to pretend to be someone's friend and father figure in order to gain their trust, so he could use them as he saw fit. Workers like Randall and Sulley were no more than pawns on a chessboard to him. I would not put anything past him to try to regain that power, to keep his family name associated with the company...or to stay out of prison. All three-Mike, Sulley and Randall(most ESPECIALLY Randall)-can testify against him in a court, and the more first-hand witnesses can come forward with information to support the allegations against Waternoose, the more likely it is that he'll get convicted and sentenced. That taped "confession" probably WON'T be admissible as evidence, since any decent attorney will claim that it was made under duress, or was not made by an arresting officer, or it could have found a large magnet inconveniently placed next to it in the Evidence Room, so that would leave just first-hand witnesses. We have all seen how powerful, wealthy individuals have gotten off of seemingly "Velcro" like serious charges, after all. Randall, out of the three witnesses, would know the most, and since Waternoose is the "Big Fish" here, the one likely to garner the most "feathers in the cap" of a prosecuting DA, the prosecution would be more than happy to cut a deal with him in exchange for having that "Big Fish" in their proverbial pan. Lacking his testimony especially, Waternoose could very well be acquitted of all charges.
NOW, the CDA...they scared me in the first movie, and I DON'T mean because they're monsters, either. To me, they are not "good guys" at ALL. Even back when MI was first released, some people were mentioning a rather disturbing comparison between them and our newly-formed Dept. of Homeland Security, and how the CDA was keeping information from the public and how the mantra of their leadership was "always watching. The similarities now, between them and the NSA, are rather disturbing, how both use fear and disinformation to control the populace. If I was to write a sequel, THEY would be the real "bad guys", not Randall, nor even Waternoose. They know that Sulley had harbored a human child,and probably know that he illegally threw another monster into the Human World, so now they've got "dirt" on him that they can use against him any time they choose to do so...and now, he's the CEO of the company. That gives the CDA frightening leverage over a giant of a corporation in the utilities industry. As for the "energy crisis" being solved by the discovery that Laugh energy is more powerful than Scream, that's probably going to lead to a short-term positive economic "bubble", but bubbles burst eventually. What's going to happen to all those Scarers, Scare professors, etc., who either cannot make that transition to becoming Comics, to making children laugh, or who refuse to do so? I can't see Johnny Worthington, for example, humiliating himself night after night, throwing pies in his own face or doing other silly things, just to get some four-year-old brat to laugh at him, can you? I would guess that majority of Scarers, in fact, can't cut it as Comics. It is still easier to scare someone than it is to make them laugh, as fear is still a deeply-ingrained primal response. What's gonna happen when all those Scarers are now out-of-work, unemployed, not making money, not spending money and putting it back into the economy?
Brevity is the soul of wit Putbulllady, I read most of these posts and your analyses seems spot on, but this wall has to be in the quadruple digit word count, there's a reason that essays have a word limit...
I think a lot of people are too used to simple one-dimensional characters and find it difficult to appreciate complex characters. It's the false dichotomy of thinking they should only like and cheer for the "good guys", and boo and hate the "bad guys". It hard for them to see the shades of grey when they're so conditioned to see black and white.
Personally, I think it's much more interesting when characters are more complex than just stereotypes. I don't like being "told" by the movie who I should like and what I should think (I'm looking at you, James Cameron's Avatar). The brilliant thing about MU is it doesn't force anything like that down our throats, and the movie is much more interesting because of that. I was so expecting Mike's room mate to be Sullivan because it's predictably logical (and boring) for that to happen. However I was very pleasantly surprised it turned out to be Randall, and it made the whole movie more interesting (and real) because of it. "Bad guys" not really being "bad guys", with real motives other than just doing bad to be bad. This separates the brainless movies from the good movies.
Story of my life, I totally agree, and abhor Avatar as well. In fact, I hated the heck out of Monsters Inc. I prefer this, it was rather refreshing, and I think my favorite animated film out of the nominees so far. It's not perfect, of course, or a masterpiece, but the message is true, and unlike Monsters Inc, Randall is not presented as dark, cynical evil. I always favored him as a character in that movie, and hated Sully. Now I feel like this gave Randall some justice (despite that one part that I presume is supposed to be funny with his cupcakes falling), and I even don't hate Sully so much anymore because all the characters were presented a little more realistically, with good qualities and flaws. There was no 'humiliating defeat' of the villain at the end, with the protagonist beaming and dwelling in their victory, which is paramount to so many kid's flicks. Such as in Frozen.
While I did not like what happened with the cupcakes, and naturally would have preferred to have had things go better for Randall, given that he is by far my favorite, it made SENSE to have that scene end up the way it did. It helped established the fact that bad things happen to good people, and if enough bad happens to them, it's eventually going to wind up having a profoundly negative effect on them. MU established a pattern of Randall either being ignored, or used by someone he thought was his friend(s), then rejected. We see Mike ignore Randall's overtures of friendship, only interested in Randall as a study partner, only paying attention to him when he needed something from Randall, but unwilling to even go to one party with him, or to leave the books behind on the one occasion Randall did manage to get him out of the dorm(THAT must have required a proverbial act of Congress right there). We see the ROR's invite him in, use him against Mike, and still treat him like dirt, to the extent that Randall never even speaks while he's in their ranks, allowing him a little taste of success in the Scare Games, only to kick him out and berate him in front of thousands when he lost one competition. And then there's the cupcake incident, that horrible humiliation following his unfair loss to Sulley(who still should have been DQ'd for interfering with his opponent's Scare), which firmly established in Randall's mind that Sulley is a cheating, privileged jerk who gets everything handed to him on a silver platter and who can get away with murder(something that might very well be literally true now) because of his family name and who he knows. Like you, I really appreciate most the fact that Dan Scanlon did NOT go the familiar, but jaded, Saturday morning kiddie 'toon route of "Good Guy Vs. Bad Guy", in which the Good Guy defeats the Bad Guy and revels in their own victory. There was no clear-cut "Bad Guy" or villain in MU; even Johnny Worthington had his reasons for acting the way he did, much the same reasons as Sulley's, and turned out to be a good sport after all, even knowing that he was going to have to face his control-freak "Great Santini" of a father and explain losing his final Scare Games to the OK's. There was no one who was completely without good qualities, unlike the villains in most animated fare. I have not seen Frozen, but I do know of the villain of which you speak and what happens, and it is one of the reasons I have NOT gone to see it. Substitute the names and setting, and you basically have the script and plot for nearly every Disney animated movie right there. I appreciate that Scanlon and Pixar passed on that formula.
The only thing I need to say is that I think that scene was played for laughs, i.e., I think since the movie expects us to know and hate Randall we are supposed to appreciate him being labeled as 'LAME'.
IF that was what Scanlon had in mind, it backfired. In theaters, the only people who laughed at that scene were little kids, the same little kids who think farts are hysterically funny and laugh when their friends fall down on the playground. Most people were like, "awwwwww". They felt sorry for Randall. I don't get the impression at all, actually, that Dan Scanlon was trying to make us hate Randall, but rather that he was showing that things that happen to people over time mold them into who they can become later. When you look at the things that happen to Randall over the course of MU, and take into consideration his fears and anxiety even when we first meet him, indicating that his social problems did not start when he entered college but merely continued, it should not be difficult to understand how living through that, year after year, would have a negative effect on someone.
Ha, ha...yes, perhaps being Goth is more mainstream, or at least more highly regarded in general, in the Monster World. ;)
At any rate, those last bunch of assessments/explanations below are masterpieces, and I'd defy anyone to successfully refute any of it (if they could actually be bothered to read it and be enlightened, that is!!) I mean, everything--from the tragic course of Randall's life, to the master manipulations of Waternoose, the CDA as the most ultimately culpable villains, the economy and legal system of the Monster World being a virtual mirror of ours (based upon ours, perhaps?)...it's all so true, and should be included in some official Pixar encyclopedia. Too bad most viewers cannot be such astute analysts of story and characters' motives.
Randall's life really has been one long series of self-esteem-crushing events--and for whatever sad reason(s), he didn't start out with much of that in the first place! (I would LOVE to know what his childhood and home life were like--I'm sure that, as you said, he had extremely limited contact with monsters his own age.) Anyone looking from his perspective could understand his vow never again to lose to Sullivan...but then what happens? The known cheater somehow, practically impossibly, pops up at MI, becomes the top Scarer, and stays in the #1 slot for...HOW long?? Come on, this isn't the Krusty Krab, where your only Employee of the Month choices are Spongebob and Squidward!! If the playing field had truly been fair and even, there's no way that Randall (and eeeeeeeeveryone else) could have *constantly* remained below him. I have a feeling that after their first year in college, Randall put his nose to the grindstone just like Mike had at first, and began really working his tail off to become a great and accomplished, respected Scaring student, and eventual Scarer. But after he gets hired...somehow, at every turn, there's that Sullivan guy again, that unworthy (from what he knows) celebrity--receiving all the attention and adulation! "Sulley, Sulley, Sulley!", as Jan Brady might sum it up. Randall was desperate; his good, honest hard work just wasn't bringing what he craved into his life--the acceptance, the friendship/love. The guy wound up totally haggard between his demanding job AND the clandestine 'side project.' He felt he couldn't disobey Waternoose, any more than he could have spoken up to Johnny in college.
One thing that REALLY bothered the heck out of me was when I listened to the audio commentary, and the director himself--I think it was--said one thing that made me wonder what he could possibly have been thinking in that moment. As Randall was apologizing to Mike for already being on another team, he said something to the effect of: "It's at this moment that Randy makes his first huge mistake--siding with the popular kids over his true friends, the people who really care about him." I just jaw-dropped like, "Whaaaa--?!? WHAT did I just hear? How could it have been spoken, do my ears deceive me?" *Obviously* Randy made a mistake in imagining that the RORs genuinely wanted to be his friends. But the point was, Mike really didn't, either! And where the plural came in I didn't know, because Mike was thus far the closest thing to a friend that Randall had--Sulley never knew him well and certainly didn't care one flip about him...neither Sulley nor Mike had even made the acquaintances of the other OKs yet...so I took this as a statement that Mike was supposedly Randy's caring friend, who now felt betrayed. Um, yeah RIGHT! Randy wanted to make real, true friends, especially with his roommate. (Goodness, the adorable way he waited to let Mike choose which side of the room he wanted!) Mike's checklist didn't include that; he was friendly enough to Randall, okay, and they did a few things together, sat next to one another in class...but I got no sense that Mike honestly cared about him, or had any interest in getting to know him personally, or forming a lasting friendship. He wanted a study-buddy, someone to willingly quiz him so that he could focus on becoming "the greatest Scarer ever." He was only SUDDENLY desperate to take Randall as a "brother" because he was in hot water, and forming a fraternity was his only possible ticket back into the Scaring program. To hear the suggestion IN the commentary that Randall was somehow betraying a loving bond(s) astonished me. What, did that contributor actually forget so much of the film they'd JUST released that year?!
Randall was a fragile soul treated right by no one--which WE intuitively knew all along. And now we're once again vindicated.
With regard to the final Scare challenge in the games...I suppose that a very strict, hard@$$ approach (which...pretty much describes Hardscrabble? xD) would be to declare the OK victory legitimate, because "You never know what's gonna happen out there in the Human World! You can't rely on a scare going precisely as planned; you need to be able to think fast on your feet and react, recover from a surprise like that!" Obviously, poor Randall was unprepared to recover so quickly from such a setback...and the entire school saw what happened. Someone else might have declared, "No, one participant's actions in this event may not interfere with another's. This faceoff will be a do-over." Thinking about all of the other Scare Games challenges shown in the film, actually...yes, clearly your ultimate goal is to beat your opponents if possible, but the focus was all along on teamwork--supporting and helping out your teammates, not leaving anyone behind, just doing your very best at each challenge and straightforwardly going for the prize. While it was evidently acceptable, or maybe even subtly encouraged, for non-competitor students to heckle them by chucking urchins at the racing teams, any deliberate sabotage or actions taken to directly cause one's opponents to fail would, I assume, be heavily frowned upon. =/ After all, they may be monsters, but they are CIVILIZED monsters, dagnabbit!
Another point that had occurred to me in relation to that was that the OKs' fully legal hijinks in the "Avoid the Librarian" game directly resulted in the elimination of the EEK girls, when they were knocked down by a tentacle. That was an unintentional, unfortunate (for the EEKs) result as well...but of course, it still counted. Wasn't the EEKS' faults, but they were eliminated without a second chance anyway. That makes me assume that while cheating is forbidden, the unintended ruining of opponents' strategies has to be accepted as par for the course. STILL, Randall had no way of knowing that Sulley didn't deliberately shake the entire platform to try and throw him off and mess with him. Already knowing full well what kind of guy Sulley was during his partial year of college, and later discovering that he WAS in fact a confirmed cheater in the games, that wouldn't have been a completely unreasonable thought on Randy's part--even though Sull's a big guy.
At heart Randall IS a very sensitive, honest person. If he had been able to find one true friend to help him see his own worth and gain a healthier psychological perspective, he wouldn't have had to suffer so...maybe he could have been saved from his downward spiral. That a 'Randall redemption'/'heroic Randall' script exists give me so much hope. We NEED that, and we NEED them to continue to play against people's expectations. None of the non-Pixarian, boring, black-and-white, "Here's your indomitable hero who can do no wrong, and here's your thoroughly rotten villain whom you must despise at all costs" cheapo junk. I want an interesting story of what happens to Randall in our world, how he manages to return, and how things get worked out with...well, everyone, especially Mike and Sulley. Would be amazing to actually see them all testify against Waternoose, and work things out by finally coming to understand one another. It would indeed be nothing short of barbaric to establish so conclusively that Randall was a sweetheart of a kid, and is still really a decent guy at his core, changing into the apparent "villain" of MI through horrible mental anguish and circumstances largely beyond his control...only to imply a hideous bludgeoning and/or death for him, for which our "heroes" are entirely responsible, and leaving it at that forever.
Thought the point about the laugh revolution was interesting too--how much of a blessing and economic boon was it REALLY? How many monsters who've made their livings and names being Scarers, Scare Assistants, and professors of Scaring are really going to be able to successfully convert to being Comics? Two very different skill sets, there. They've now got to rewrite the whole book on human children, and start developing curricula to train monsters in what the kids will find most humorous. With the tables turned like that, it seems more likely that the rest of the OK brothers will actually wind up being much better able to adapt to the new business model than a lot of the other Scarers--including other sorority and fraternity members/MU graduates from Randall's class. I know that the big Monsters storybook addressed this somewhat, with the tale about a few of the friendly Scarers from the first film, and how each finds his unique approach to comedy...but kid's storybooks tend to be extremely oversimplified. Surely it couldn't have been that easy and cute for everybody.
I dare ANYONE, Pixar employees included, to tell me ONE thing that Mike did for Randall, ONE thing that indicated Mike gave a rat's patootie about Randall at MU one way or the other! As-who was it, Groucho Marx?-once said, "with friends like that, who needs enemas?" The only thing that Mike does, right after they first meet, that might in any way be considered helpful was in telling Randall that he should "totally use that", in reference to Randall's embarrassing habit of becoming invisible every time something scared him, something he'd never thought of as a possible Scare technique but had probably been ridiculed horribly for in the past. Even that was immediately followed by some NOT-so-good advice, to lose the glasses, showing again how selfish Mike really was because he can only see things in terms of HIS dream of becoming a Scarer. Mike does not even pause to consider that Randall wore those glasses(note how thick the lenses were, indicating horrible eyesight)for a reason! Randall spent the next ten years squinting to see to the point that everyone associates that myopic squint with him and thinks that he looks like that because he's "mean" or "evil", further hurting his chances of making friends. Mike refused to go the party with Randall, and had he done so, he'd have also saved himself a whole lot of trouble, because that whole debacle with the pig would not have gone down as it did, but no, his studies were more important than Randall. Even at the football game, Mike is still studying, ignoring Randall totally, even though Randall is clearly out of his element and looks totally left out and alone there, and keeps looking to Mike for some word of encouragement, something...ANYTHING, but it's as if he's invisible, for real. Randall could have gotten up and simply left and Mike would never have realized he was gone. Is that what the commentators mean by "true friend" and "caring for someone"? Seriously? Randall had waaay more patience than I would have, in his situation, that's for certain, to stick with Mike for as long as he did! I can promise that no one else would, either, and they'd be lying like politicians running for re-election if they said that they'd stick with someone who treated them the same way Mike treated Randall!
I STILL don't understand why Sulley's win was allowed to stand, either, why the other ROR's didn't challenge it, at least, when THEY could clearly see that the only reason their teammate lost was because of Sulley stomping on the floor, interfering with Randall's Scare, intentional or not. No one but Sulley would have known that that act had nothing to do with his attempt to interfere with his opponent, just from watching that on the wide-screen TV's. I can't believe that Johnny didn't raise hell about it. It was NOT an "anything goes" situation like the Library Challenge, where it was repeatedly stated that competitors could do whatever they wanted to get their team's flag as long as they didn't get caught by the Librarian, otherwise that would have been stated for the Scare Competition, too.
The bad thing is, a lot of people still believe that Randall CHOSE to become the way he did in MI, that he CHOSE to change from that sweet, naive, helpful kid in MU, eager to make friends, to an angry, bitter, friendless individual in MI. Really, people? I still see idiots on Tumblr, who think they're being remarkably original and clever, post "remember when everyone thought that Randall would have a tragic backstory and it turned out he was just a d*** all along?" People's shallowness and lack of intellect really should not surprise me anymore, honestly. Again, they condemn Randall for wanting what THEY already have: friends, people who care about them, approval and recognition for whatever their accomplishments might be. They accuse him of being a "social climber", and lie about what they would have done had THEY been in his situation, with no friends or social status at all, while bragging about how many "friends" they have on Facebook or how many "followers" they have on Tumblr. People see how cute little Mike was and believe that makes him an angel by default, that he can do no wrong, and that anyone who wouldn't want to walk across a lake of boiling lava just to stand next to Mike must be the Most Horrible Person Ever, but totally miss the fact that Mike is by definition of the word a freakin' PSYCHOPATH! He can't empathize with others or see anyone's situation other than HIS, and has delusions of grandeur that rival those of the nuttiest dictators. As we say down South, "if he had good sense, he'd be dangerous"! He BREAKS THE LAW and BREAKS INTO A COMPANY'S PROPERTY in MU, and no one has a problem with that? Even as a little kid, he disobeys authority, disrespects adults, as when he calls his teacher by her first name...that's not cute, that's disrespect! I'm sure that the whole way there to MI Mike had done nothing but talk about himself, how wonderful and great he was; if I was another kid in his class, I wouldn't want to partner up with him, either! Same way on the bus going to MU, getting into everyone's business. You can see how relieved that the other passengers are when he finally gets off the bus! People laughed when Mike says that HE is all the OK's need to win, as if the others are meaningless, useless, and that's because to him, they ARE! They're only there to make up the required number, six, for HIM to compete. Mike has to learn the meaning of "team", and has to learn the meaning of "friend", but RANDALL is to blame for not choosing to hang around him?
You sure are passionate about this pitbulllady, but I agree with your assessment of Randall. You should try creating paragraphs so more people will want to read.
I heard ya. I can't imagine what kind of epic brainfart resulted in that line of the commentary, and I'm 99% sure I didn't mishear. Mike did next to nothing for Randall, gave him no reason whatever to regard him as a loyal friend. Excellent point about the glasses and the "evil-looking" squint. (As someone with just about the strongest-possible prescriptions in MY lenses, I can only imagine how problematic life would have been had some fellow student suggested that I "lose the glasses," and I been trusting and desperate enough to obey.) They establish ALL of this stuff that we've pointed out IN the film, and then someone ON the audio commentary still holds Mike up as this fantastic, wonderful guy shockingly abandoned by the supposedly self-serving, glory-seeking Randy?!? Appalling. ;.; Randall tried way, WAY harder to be a true friend to Mike than Mike ever ONCE did for him--and also way harder than I would've bothered making an effort with that little self-absorbed, bipedal gumball, either!!
And yeah, that's true about the final game--in the case of the library challenge, anything went. The OKs were the reason for the EEKs' elimination, and it was totally legal. But for the Scare Simulator, each competitor likely has his routine precisely planned out in advance, and it would not be the student's fault if it failed ONLY because of something the opponent did on the platform to ruin it...intentional or not....something that wouldn't have happened during an actual on-the-job scare. What they really need are separate platforms. Sulley could counter that he's naturally a big guy and can't help shaking the floor a bit during some of his effective moves (but then again, would majorly shaking the floor of a kid's room be such a great idea? What if the parents took notice? And for that matter, actually...how do parents and other family members not hear the roars?)
Anybody who could call Randall a "d***" has either not seen MU, is a troll, or has all the mental capacity of an amoeba. What utterly unbelievable fools! How "tragic" did his bloody backstory have to be to garner sympathy from imbeciles like that? Did his family have to be murdered in front of him or something? It isn't enough to watch one cruel injustice after another begin to transform a timid, gentle, kind-hearted, self-effacing person into an embittered, envious, stressed-out, impatient, yet still completely understandable one? And meanwhile, everybody's little hero Mikey gets free passes or justifications for his MYRIAD flaws, mistakes, transgressions, and just all-around total self-obsession and disregard for everyone around him...because he's lucky enough that things start to go his way in the end, preventing him from ending up truly alone like Randall?!? No. Just NO way.
That's a question I asked many times on Tumblr-just what DO you people consider "tragic"? Before MU came out, there was a lot of speculation that Randall would have some tragic backstory to go from a friendly but shy little nerd to what we see in MI, and a lot of the haters just kept re-posting that jades, "naw, turns out he was just a d*** all along". Imbeciles is really too nice a term for them, honestly. Being repeatedly socially rejected by those you like or admire or with whom you want to belong has been proven to be as detrimental to one's emotional well-being as experiencing constant severe physical pain, as it "excites" the exact same part of the brain in the exact same negative way, and in Randall's case, his whole life seemed to be nothing more than one rejection after another. Mike pretty much ignored him, except when he needed a study partner, the ROR's turned out to be using him, and by the time we see him in MI, Randall's got some big-time trust issues. He's literally afraid of trying to forge a friendship or accept anyone's offers of one, because he's been hurt so many times, and he can't take that pain of rejection any longer. It IS "tragic" in and of itself for anyone to have to go through life like that, feeling unwanted and outcast, through absolutely no fault of their own.
While I do agree that part of Randall's attitude towards Sulley had to do with Mike choosing SULLEY as a friend over HIM, something Randall probably figured had more to do with Sullivan's family name and reputation, the rest of that statement is flawed. Randall was NOT competitive at all, actually. We see in MU that by nature, he prefers to avoid conflicts. He CAN be competitive when needed, but that's not his motivation. NOR is being "#1 Scarer" his motivation, either. Yes, he'd like that, because that would hopefully earn him some recognition, but the whole plot with the Scream Extractor had absolutely NOTHING to do with the Scare Board or Scare Records, and he even says so himself. The Scream Extractor was not connected to the Scare Board, so none of the Screams collected with it would have counted towards Randall's totals. Seriously, you do not think that Waternoose would have simply allowed Randall to do something-not just allowed, but encouraged it-that would have placed Randall ahead of Waternoose's clear favorite, do you? The Scream Extractor would have made Scarers an anachronism, rendered them obsolete, and done away with that competition totally. NO ONE would have been "#1 Scarer" once that machine was formally approved and patented and accepted into widespread use. It would have done for Scaring what the PC has done for typewriter manufacturing. Sulley's accomplishments would have been rendered null, while Randall would have also been removing HIMSELF from that competition and any accomplishments associated with it.
Randall believed that James P. Sullivan was a cheater, period, that everything he had going for him was gotten through dishonest means. It wasn't so much about Randall himself beating Sulley, but SOMEONE knocking him off that throne and exposing him for what he was, and if that wasn't do-able, then Randall planned to change the game completely. According to the "Monsters, Inc. Employee Handbook"(yes, it's a real book), there were 120 Scare Floors in that factory, with 13 door stations each, so that meant that there were 1,560 Scarers working in the factory at any given time. There were 3 work shifts in a 24-hour period, meaning that in the course of any given day, there'd be 4,680 Scarers working there. James P. Sullivan had been the #1 Scarer, out of 4,680 people, for 11 months straight. He'd also been "EMPLOYEE of the Month" for 11 months straight...that taking into consideration ALL the monsters working for that huge corporation-the janitors, cafeteria workers, mail room workers, secretaries, assistants,dispatchers, assistants to assistants, maintenance guys, electricians, the line crews, truck drivers, inspectors, accountants, the folks who work in billing/collections, technology dept., treasurers, legal team/attorneys, all the way up the executives like the BOD, the CFO, president, vice-president and CEO, so we're talking THOUSANDS and possibly hundreds of thousands employees all in all. For ONE individual, out of all those, to be Employee of the Month for 11 months straight is a virtual impossibility; NO ONE is THAT good at anything! For that to happen, it would mean that something highly unethical and unfair is going on somewhere in that company, and Randall obviously knew this! His frustration was not so much not being able to get to #1 himself, but in the fact that a known cheater, someone he'd seen to be a jerk back in college who got everything he wanted just because of his family name, was beating what were basically Power Ball Jackpot odds to stay on top and no one else seemed to realize this. It would not have bothered Randall if things had taken the normal course, and several different Scarers had taken turns at the top of the Scare Board, since that would be expected, but the fact that this ONE guy, whom Randall perceived as dishonest in the first place, got there and stayed there for this length of time simply did not make sense. Randall had vowed in MU not to be beaten by that cheater, Sullivan, again, so it's not as much about glorifying himself as it is not wanting a cheater to keep winning.
Which brings up the whole Scare Record...I am still not clear if that "All-Time Scare Record" that Sulley was apparently about to break was just for MU or for the entire Scream/utilities industry. According to the "Scare Cards", while Sulley was at the top at MU, neither he nor Randall were even close to the top overall. THAT title belonged to none other than Johnny Worthington III, who worked for Fear, Co. He was waaaay ahead of both Randall AND Sulley! Johnny also scored higher than Sulley in the Scare Competition during the Scare Games, so he was just a better Scarer all around.
I kind of think the whole jump from geeky, quite adorable Randall in MU to the evil tyrant we see in MI is a strange one, and not easily explainable.
In MI he tells Sulley/Mike the 'winds of change' are coming, and this is then mirrored in MU via the poster on his bedroom wall (he seems quite a studious, dreamy and sweet character in MU until the end, though I put that down to rushed scriptwriting really). What the 'winds of change' means is never explained either, though it must have some significance for this character that goes back some way.
I can see him holding a grudge against Sulley for taking Mike off him but why it would be ramped up to the level of 'Mr Big badguy' by MU is a mystery. Is he that burnt? The only other explanation I can think is that something else has happened to him and/or (as a result) he's had an entire personality transplant, lol! Edit: he did join the main fraternity of 'cool' kids but is this enough to change someone into a madman? Idk, that's down to the storywriters....
Mike calls Randall a 'jerk' in MI, as if he has no prior recognition that this was his friend, indeed, his ONLY voluntary friend back at MU. Mike and Sulley got thrown together by pure circumstance - but Randall seemed to like/get on Mike for who he was from the off - and didn't bully or ignore him like others did. Randall understood the need to study and work hard to get places. Mike and Randall were cut from the same cloth early on.
There could be said to be subtext that hasn't been adequately explained or thought out. I'd still like to see a third Monsters with Randall come good because he needs to find his way back from being the bad guy imo. He didn't really deserve to be the bad guy, but then I think they wrote the first one before the second one and had to plug some gaps not very successfully in an otherwise good storyline.
Of course the other layer of this onion is that as the credits roll in MI and we see the outtakes and bloopers - we see they are basically all 'actors' learning their lines, and the 'real' Randall is a rather jovial character after all!
Given how Mike ignores Randall and Randall's attempts at forging a real friendship with him in MU, Mike probably DIDN'T remember much of his roommate at all by the time we see them again at MI. Mike really had tunnel vision in MU, focused obsessively with his dream of becoming the "Greatest Scarer Ever", and Randall was not part of that dream. Too many people mistake Mike's politeness towards Randall as genuine care and friendship, but that was not the case at all. Mike barely knew that Randall existed. Randall was no more than a tool, a means to an end, someone who helped Mike study so Mike could succeed at his dream. Randall's dream meant nothing to him. As soon as Randall joins ROR, it's as if he never existed. Mike shows no remorse, no sign of missing him at all. I can absolutely understand why Randall would have felt the need to move on, and I think that decision hurt HIM, emotionally, much worse than it did Mike, because Randall was the only one with any emotional investment there.
A lot of people mistakenly think that it was joining ROR that turned Randall into, as you say, a "madman". It was NOT. Randall's turn towards what literally WAS a state of psychosis really, for the most part, would have taken place at MI. What Dan Scanlon establishes in MU is a pattern, that of Randall being repeatedly ignored, socially rejected, used by others and publicly humiliated. We are given the impression when we first meet Randall in the dorm, that this has probably been the case for much of his life. He has a deep fear of being seen as "a joke", he lacks any sense of confidence, he is absolutely terrified when he's around big, jock-type guys...gee, wonder why? That "winds of change" poster reflects what he hopes college would bring for him, a chance to finally fit in and be accepted, to no longer be thought of as an outcast, a nerd, to no longer be rejected. Randall's always been on the outside looking in, seeing other kids, the "cool kids", having fun, having friends, and he's been excluded. He hopes he can finally be a part of that now. Instead, college for him just winds up being more of the same, if not worse.
A lot of people also fail to see that Sulley does many things throughout the course of the movie that Randall was filing away in his mind as reasons why Sullivan was a Grade A Douch-Bag. It did NOT just start with the loss in the Scare Games! That was just the proverbial straw that broke the camel's back. Randall is the sort to bottle up negative thoughts and emotions until he can't keep them bottled up any longer, and they explode like a long-dormant volcano coming to life. When he left MU(and he apparently did drop out following the Scare Games, as I figured, based on his conspicuous absence in Party Central)he knew James P. Sullivan as a privileged jerk who got whatever he wanted and was loved by all simply because of his family name. Randall also knew him as a cheater, who won by dishonest means and got away with it, again, because he was a Sullivan. Now, 9 years later, Sulley(who had been expelled from college) is now the top Scarer, and has been for months on end, out of thousands of just Scarers. He's loved by everyone. He's best friends with the company's CEO. He is best friends with Randall's former roommate, who now acts like he never knew Randall at college at all. Logistically, with that many Scarers, no one individual should have been on top for long, but there should have been a change-over quite often. But Sulley gets more points for filling HIS Scream canister than anyone else. Sulley gets 100 points for filling his canister, while Randall only gets 75 for filling HIS. That's like two students taking the same test, getting the same correct answers on all of the questions, but the teacher giving one of them a grade of 100, a A+, and giving the other one a 75, a D-. Now, how is that fair? And this sort of thing had been going on for years. That alone would push someone's sanity to the edge, BUT, on top of that, Randall had been involved in that little side project for Waternoose. He is still working a high-stress full-time regular job, so when does that leave to work on the Scream Extractor? That leaves his lunch break, much of his nights, weekends, vacation time, holidays...when everyone else gets to go home and sleep, recharge, recreate, have fun, relax, socialize...Randall's down there in that basement working on that machine for someone who is not the forgiving or patient sort, who is constantly reminding him of his inferiority to Sullivan. We know that THIS had been going on for at least 2 1/2 years, according to Roz. That is enough to drive anyone absolutely insane, I don't care how good a person they are. Sooner or later, they are going to snap, and that is exactly what happened to Randall. Randall had reached a point where he was no more in control of his own actions than someone who is sleep-walking; he was just running on adrenalin and cortisol by that point.
This thread is interesting because my son kept asking who was the "bad guy" and there wasn't a clear answer. I like it when characters are shades of grey, even in a kids movie.
I like that, too, because most people in real life are like that; they are neither good nor evil, but have equal capacity for both, depending on their circumstances. I really applaud director Dan Scanlon for portraying Randall in a more sympathetic light, showing how Randall's circumstances gradually turned him from a sweet, naive kid desperate for acceptance into an angry, bitter, frustrated adult, rather than going with this whole, "Randall was always bad and probably was a bully throughout school" mentality. There was no real villain in MU, just a series of antagonists, and antagonists are not necessarily "bad", just opposed to whatever the protagonist, in this case Mike, is trying to do. We have Dean Hardscrabble and we have Johnny, but neither are "evil" as such and both wind up with more respect for Mike and the OK's(whether Johnny would ever publicly admit it, lol). When I first read the descriptions of the ROR fraternity before the movie's release, I expected them to cheat to win the Scare Games, but they were honest throughout, and despite Johnny's prank against the ROR's, which was tame by frat standards, he was a good sportsman and he clearly valued hard work and effort, rather than believing one could simply rest on the laurels of a well-known family name. Kids need to understand that the words of Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr., are true: "There is some good in the worst of us, and some evil in the best of us."