Good, but what about the bullying?

[deleted]

'Bullying' in Britain (and most of the rest of the world) is not as big of a deal as it is in America. It happens.

I had massive problems with that and it basically ruined the film for me. I know that protaganists don't always have to be perfect, especially not if they are teenagers, but to have them as actually lame, stupid people? Makes it very hard to care for them. I think most teenagers are stupid and self-absorbed at some point but that doesn't have to extend to bullying with no remorse - it certainly didn't for me or most of my friends! It didn't really give them a reason to behave like that.

I made a similar thread, though not as good as yours: http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1440292/board/flat/185650603

Btw I'm from Australia and have spent a lot of time in Britain (am also a citizen) - I still think it's a big deal.

You have to recognise that the protagonist is a horrible person and relish every bad thing that Jordana does to him, knowing that he deserves the lot.

When Jordana eventually comes to stop being so mean he loses interest. He wants the sadist who burns his leg hair for fun, not the warm-hearted girl she turns into when faced with the suffering of her mother. (Of course, at the end she seems remember that she likes making him do what she says. She likes to be able to make him suffer. And to be honest we still want him to suffer too. That's why I think the ending works.)

I think we are supposed to side with the bullying victim who tells him to "F off and die". Heck, didn't everyone laugh when she said that? It just summed things up so well.


"he was too self-absorbed to worry about others"

Exactly. But he still tries to justify it. By hearing his perspective on things we get to hear just what a weasel he really is. The title "Submarine" relates to his idea that, like Submarines, we all understand each other through sonar (as in, we don't know what's going on inside each other's heads, we just try to reach out as best we can). But we know what's in Oliver's head. While other characters can only guess we, the audience, know just what a disgusting weasel he really is. It's black humour. There's a certain sadism in the humour because it is always at someone else's expense.

When the bully says "F off and die" our laughter is mocking a bully who wants to pretend he's "not so bad". It's punchlines like that which made me love this movie.

"Jordana is more troublesome. There was no explanation for why she was a bully."

Um... that's her character. She's an absolutely horrible spiteful little b**ch. And the main reason we were able to like her character was because when she inflicts her sadism on the main protagonist, we kind of feel like he deserves it.

Difficulties at home don't excuse bad behaviour and in fact it is Jordana's difficulties at home that make her decide NOT to be such a horrible person anymore. (Which ironically means that Oliver doesn't want to be her boyfriend anymore.)

We aren't supposed to like these characters. We are supposed to laugh AT them. It's a dark comedy and we are supposed to enjoy the suffering of the protagonists (Jordana making Oliver wade into the water and get his trousers all wet while she is comfortably above the water level in her boots) and the ridiculousness of the protagonists (Oliver telling the victim of his bullying that it'll make her stronger and her unceremoniously telling him to "f-k off and die") and they have both in spades.

He wasn't really a cruel kid though, and felt bad about it when it went too far, but when it didn't he was too self-absorbed to worry about others.

Apples and Oranges. He's not exactly cruel, but he's a selfish little s-t? Same difference.

Jordana really is a nasty piece of crap.......

Well I guess considering the time era, especially in most English speaking countries, I guess there weren't enough of after school programs or "challenge day" programs for young adults to learn that bullying is wrong, even when it comes to peer pressure. I guess it's the kind of environment where it is rare for a brave person to call some bullies out, like with Degrassi series. It seems like the protagonist and everybody around him appears to have trouble expressing feelings in comfort. The only person who didn't mind listening was his teacher, but he chose not to share anything with his teacher.

Yeah, they're not the most likable teens. Even as a couple, they seem to not understand how to logically share empathy between each other-- all they both do is torment each other. lol. Despite their flawed characters, I still like the movie. I thought the movie was mediocre.

As human beings it is in our nature to seek to control things or feel a sense of power at least for a while. For Oliver and his girlfriend to be at the time the victim is the "larger" girl that ends up leaving school for that very reason. But dude you're missing the point. If you went to school, you were a part of bullying at some point (as the perpetrator or the victim) and this is a biopic!! You're totally missing the point of this film man. We are all pretentious, insecure bullies at times. Notice that Oliver and his girlfirend are both bullied. May I ask what kind of character you care about in a film? Not real one I take it...

"Doublethink. To deliberately believe in lies, while knowing they're false." Henry Barthes