César didn't 'win'


Great film. I felt very strongly at the end that César ultimately hadn't 'won', and wanted to make my first IMDb comment about it.

Clara was seen throughout the film as a positive, energetic person, capable of putting a positive spin on most things, even treating the bug infestation as a opportunity to have a spring clean.

At the end of the film, we see a relaxed and happy looking Clara before she is called by her mother to collect her letter. The fact that the first thing she does is hold the baby closely after she finds out the truth, rather than moving away from the baby or shunning it, shows what kind of person she is. I reckon she'll love the kid regardless of his or her heritage and be able to move on and separate César from the child in her arms.

César thinks he's condemned Clara to a relentlessly miserable life, where baby is a constant reminder of what awful things happened, but I think he's wrong. His being arrested and sentenced will give Clara the closure and safety she needs to pick up and carry on. That's not to say it won't hurt like hell and be tough for a while, of course, but I just don't think she'll become evil, hateful mum who ends up alone.

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That's just what you think.

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What makes you think he'll be arrested? The "Monday" title card at the end clearly suggests that he intends on doing it all over again, so we have to assume he's made efforts to disappear.

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I don't think Cesar was going to be arrested based on that letter. He's certainly got away with the murder by that point.

However, what you've said makes me think. Perhaps something similar happened to his mother? In hospital he strongly suggests that she considers him a disappointment or is ashamed of him in some way.

What if Cesar was an illegitimate child and he wants to produce an illegitimate child himself to be shunned the way he was?

If that's the case, then yes it doesn't look like the woman is going to shun her child, so in that sense you'd be right. That being said, Cesar's mother didn't give him up. They lived in shame together. So to a certain extent, it's up to interpretation. And certainly the letter wiped the smile right off her face all over again, which is Cesar's primary goal in everything he does.

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What if Cesar was an illegitimate child and he wants to produce an illegitimate child himself to be shunned the way he was?

I completely agree with you on this point. Remember the part where Cesar says something like: "If I am not happy, I take comfort in the fact that there are people unhappy as well".

That is why I think you right about him being an illegitimate child and wanting to do the same to other women.

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To you cynical types who seem to enjoy what Cesar did to people.

I think Cesar is not perfect, and he slips time to time.
Just one slip too much, and he'll be apprehended.

He may have got away with murder this time, but the police was pretty close on his tail. And they did actually suspect something. He got away by pure coincidence. Ninja and Superman he isn't.

Clara most probably would bring this diary to the police, who will store the evidence. Next time there's a similar story elsewhere, it may come to attention of the police.

The friend who works in the police told me: please, do report every crime even if they can't catch the perp right now. If there are reports of multiple seemingly minor crimes in a certain place, the police will give it a closer look -- even if the elementary crime is not worth the police time.

So the most realistic end is, he gets caught, convicted and goes to prison.

Clara did not push away the baby. He's not guilty of his lineage. So she'll get over it and the smile will come back onto her face.

"Sleep Tight".

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I think the fact that you're so invested in creating a scenario in which everything turns out ok for Clara demonstrates that the film has done its job.

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yep he gets caught and is sent to prison. that is where cell 211 begins

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Lol. I laughed for ages after reading that!

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Just one slip too much, and he'll be apprehended.

Precisely.

The friend who works in the police told me: please, do report every crime even if they can't catch the perp right now. If there are reports of multiple seemingly minor crimes in a certain place, the police will give it a closer look -- even if the elementary crime is not worth the police time.

Excellent point.

So she'll get over it and the smile will come back onto her face.

This is a real possibility. There are people who are able to focus on positive accomplishments in the future rather than dwelling on the past, even with something as serious as this. There's a possibility that Clara isn't as traumatized as some people think.

I would be giving Cesar too much credit if I said he "won." He's far too much of a loser to be considered a winner by any stretch of the imagination. I wouldn't underestimate the ability for someone like Clara to give herself and her baby the best life she possibly could. Besides, if there had never been a Cesar in her life, there may have been some other adversity that she would've had to deal with instead.



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[deleted]

I thought the exact same thing. They made you fear for what she'd choose a moment when she lifted up the baby.

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So long as the lunatic believes that Clara has been destroyed, he "wins."

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You are all missing the point. Cesar KNOWS that nothing he does can break Clara's spirit. That's why he KNOWS that she will not shun the baby, even after she learns it is his. Cesar is counting on that because that way the baby will be a constant reminder of what happened. A constant dark clound on Clara' sunny day. He would have lost if Clara had gotten rid of the baby somehow. But he actually wins because he knows she would not do that because of the kind of person she is. In other words, Cesar effectively uses Clara's positive spirit against her. The baby is his insurance that Clara's future days will not be so bright in his absence.

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100% agreed with MikeGrossman34.

Cesar thinks he won so he won.

Worth mention - although we don't know exactly what Cesar's diary contains - Cesar sent the diary to Clara along with the letter. So if Clara wants she could show the diary and the letter to the police...

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How you view the situation is a matter of what beliefs you hold with regards to human nature and the journey of the soul.

I watched the movie this morning. So I’ve had several hours to ponder my own opinion on this issue. Throughout the movie, I felt nothing but spite for Cesar. So much so that I was praying that someone would just take him out by any means possible. I felt such bitterness towards him. That was my gut reaction. But, now that I’ve had several hours to think about it, I feel nothing but the utmost empathy for him.

IMHO, I don’t think there are any winners or losers in this situation. Life is not a game; it is a learning experience – it is a journey. Life only becomes a game if you view it as being one. While Cesar might have felt this, Clara did not. This was not a game for Clara; she was never keeping score because she was busy living a fulfilling life.

There are many ways to look at this movie. For me, the film juxtaposes two individuals at different levels of spiritual evolution – with two radically different consciousnesses. You have Clara, who is a genuine, good-hearted, and optimistic woman by nature. So intense is her propensity for goodness, that she hugs the illegitimate child she’s given birth to close to her, accepting it with unconditional love (as the OP mentioned). This is definitely a sign that she is a spiritual adult.

Unlike Cesar – a miserable wretch of a creature, who engages in extremes acts of deception just to feel a smidgen of joy. His happiness hinges on the misfortune of others. It was difficult to watch how he brought his poor bed-ridden mother to tears with his pessimistic attitude; and also how he demeaned Mrs. Veronica (the woman with the dogs) when she had nothing but nice things to say about him. This is a soul who does not recognize the goodness in others because he does not know his own worth as a human being. That is the main problem with Cesar. He is unable to be happy because he is unable to love. This is truly heartbreaking.

Yes, one can interpret his raping Clara and impregnating her with his seed as a “win” for him. But imposing on the freedom of others in order to achieve his sadistic goals, will not result in fulfillment for his soul. A happiness that hinges on the unhappiness of others is not true happiness, no matter how you slice it. It is a fleeting feeling of perverse joy.

But perhaps, this perverted act has in a strange way brought him closer to happiness? Maybe he will try to live differently now? Maybe he will become a better person knowing that his likeness lives in the world? Then, in this case, he – his soul - will truly have progressed. I say “progressed” and not “won”, because, as I mentioned before, life ain't a game.

But that’s my own opinion. That’s what’s so great about movies. There are no right or wrong answers. Just different perspectives.

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There's only one instant, and it's right now. And it's eternity.

- Waking Life

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[deleted]

For a guy who struggles to get out of bed every morning, never had the feeling of happiness and wants to kill himself if he doesn't distract himself by doing things like this, I seriously doubt that he can ever win one way or the other.

To the people who think he got away: I don't think he can get away with it if he keeps on living in Europe because no matter where he is, if they catch him, he will be transported back to Spain and convicted for murder.

I still think that Clara's life was ruined big time though. No matter how positive she is this whole experience will leave her scared for the rest of her life no matter how positive she'll try to be.

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I think the things done by this creep were disgusting and morally reprehensible. But this is a character study. It's not about the good and bad or winning or losing. It's about the affect a sick person has on the world as well as his warped mind trying to make sense of what he does. In his mind he won. But Ultimately his win cannot satisfy him that's why he has to keep doing what he does. He's in torment and can't get out of it. His own sick mind will punish him until he's killed caught, or kills himself.

Clara on the other hand is apart of a bigger world that will help her cope with the pain he caused. She still has supportive friends and family that will help her through the torment she's been put through.

The little girl he frightened may recover as well, though she kind of seemed as sick and cold as he did.

But everyone will end up moving on with their lives. He's still trapped in his personal hell. It's none thing if he didn't feel anything and felt that he was a happy person doing these things. But he knows he's not happy and wants to believe he is. He can pretend for a while, but he'll be on another ledge in no time.

This is a movie that's made to think about the characters rather than have any resolution.

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I absolutely *'LOVE IT'* when the antagonist in

horror/thriller films comes out on top in the end.

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*win*
and sometimes i love when the bad guy wins but to be honest, i wanted cesar to die for what he did.

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