can we talk about how bad season 4 was? - Lost Girl (2010) Discussion

[–] Morbius_Fitzgerald 9 years ago

I hear you. I'm not as much angry with the first half of the season. Its pleasant and inoffensive enough and it features a story that I'd say was one of the top 10 best episodes in the show's history (its "Of All The Gin Joints"). However, I HATED when they revealed who the Wanderer was. I wrote an entire review of the episode "Origin" explaining in just how many ways the story arc after that was complete *beep* and almost completely nonredeemable. I actually re-edited my review twice and all three times I tried submitting it on imdb, I blew out the 1000 word limit (I had to simplify what was wrong with it, I CAN'T let every stupid moment go!).

Although, if you want to hear a story, just after I sat through Season 4, I ran into Rachel Skarsten, Paul Amos and Kris Holden Reid at a convention. All three of them were really nice people and really funny people but when I got to Paul he asked me what my favourite season was. I loved all the seasons in some way or another before 4 and I'm in Australia so Season 5 still hasn't been released yet (so I'm still stewing on the hatred of Rainer), I said what I thought but not in a way that'd upset him with "all of them bar 4". Paul went off on a tangent about how the show runner wasn't really organised and even he could feel that the show had fallen apart. So...even the cast, apparently, didn't like Season 4 enough to just come out and say "its crap" to a fan literally only a few weeks after it had finished airing.

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[–] terencespark 9 years ago

EXACTLY, I mean as soon as they start explaining Rainer and I realized where they were going with it, I honestly could not watch it. I kept looking at my phone and tried to NOT pay attention so that I wouldn't get as frustrated. But of course I had to finish the seaon.... ugh. maybe better off if I didn't.
Were they TRYING to lose the audience?? They introduce a character who is implicated in Bo's kidnapping & supposed to some evil character since season 3, make Bo fall in love with him in like, half an episode, (which they try to explain by saying time moves differently in the train.. and all the while Bo knew this, she's just busy making out with Rainer.. uhhh yeah we know she's the succubus, but for 3 seasons she's been hell-bent on breaking rules and standing by her virtues, saving friends at all costs and etc., and NOW she's just completely forgotten all about her friends? for example the scene where they're in the bed and they talk to each other about how everyone else lost their memories and Bo's just like, oh whatever, let's talk about our plan to set you free, which involves giving up everything and me joining the dark fae. WTFFFFFFFFF!???????) they keep bringing up hints that other characters find that allude to Rainer still being some bad omen or evil being, I forget the details because, you know, I was trying my best NOT to pay too much attention. BUT NO Bo's all like, he's my destiny (with NO character development from Rainer whatsoever.. wtf we haven't seen Bo get this annoying with anyone else before) why can't you guys be happy for me and Rainer? and at this point, I'm getting fed up with the other supporting characters too, because I mean let's get real I know Bo's supposed to be the one or whatever since beginning, but if she's *beep* up, someone's got to step up and slap a bitch. what else am I missing.. So after all that, Bo realizes that yeah... she shouldn't have freed him THEN boom, Rainer dies. And after all the whining and annoying behavior from Bo for her so-called-love, we don't see a single tear, or some dramatic scene where she's hurting or whatever... WHAT?????
I mean WHAT THE ACTUAL *beep*

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[–] Morbius_Fitzgerald 9 years ago

I actually said in my review of Origin that if Rainer did turn out to be evil and Bo's attitude was just the result of a mind control spell, it would virtually fix all the problems I have with Season 4. I've also seen some fan theories that say, for what Bo went through in The Dawning in Season 3, it was a bit TOO easy compared to what it was built up as, so...how much more sense would it make if everything we see past The Dawning is Bo still being tested?

However, I don't think the supporting cast in that second half of the season was that bad. Sure there are moments where they succumb to the *beep* writing but I don't think anyone else REALLY has a moment like Bo where, as characters, they became unrecognisable to how they were literally a few episodes ago.

As I also said before, I did a whole imdb review of the last half of Season 4 and I blew out the 1000 word limit. So if you want to see me rant more about this, please, read that.

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[–] terencespark 9 years ago

truthfully I had this glimmer of hope, in the back of my mind, that Rainer or some other character was influencing Bo's attitude and that it'll come out in the end.. and they would at least partially recover the character they had built of Bo.
they can even make it so that it was his father manipulating Bo to open the gates or whatever.
and I do think that way would have been better than disaster they unfolded, but in the end, they messed it up too much to recover from it. throughout the season, they give NO references or hints that Bo might be being manipulated, so if they just pulled that crap out of nowhere it'll just seem like a they knew they messed up and they're trying to fix it last minute. (my point being, I DON'T EVEN THINK WRITERS KNOW HOW BADLY THEY SCREWED UP THE SEASON!)
for any plot, whether it's a book, comic, manga, show, movie etc. etc. you have a much more appreciation for the writing if everything's all been planned out from the beginning. and you can always see that in the best of them. hell, I know a manga writer that I follow who brings up new characters in a manga and he's been related to episodes YEARS PAST! stuff like that is amazing and you come to appreciate the writing.. NOT the writers from Lost Girl season 4.
also, I'm pretty I saw your review.. I remember seeing a few logical reviews that talk about season 4. I'll try to look for it again though.
thanks for the rant!

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[–] terencespark 9 years ago

and NO I'm not at all surprised that the actors probably weren't happy with how season 4 turned out.
if they have even half a brain, (which some of the reviewers in IMDB don't seem to have) they should know that everything that happened surrounding Rainer made no sense whatsoever, contradicts all character motivations and forcing a character up to be some role he couldn't deliver, then killing him in some anti-climatic fashion...
I would lose ALL respect for any of the actors if they tried to tell me they enjoyed shooting all of season 4 or it didn't even make them scratch their heads a little.

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[–] Morbius_Fitzgerald 9 years ago

I only asked Paul about that, not any of the others. As I said, I didn't want to offend them as, even after seeing something like Season 4 and after I still haven't seen a solitary moment from Season 5 (yep, I have to stew on the hatred of Rainer STILL, nearly a year after I saw it), I still do really like the show and I wouldn't really say that to anyone if they didn't ask first.

Although, surprisingly, I have actually heard they do enjoy shooting the show mainly because the cast of actors get along so well. At least that is something that all could've enjoyed about the shooting in Season 4.

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[–] terencespark 9 years ago

personally, I don't think it'd be offensive to question the actors how they felt about certain episodes. it's not their fault, afterall.
matter of fact, I don't think I would have a problem questioning it to even the writers because I'm seriously confused as how they *beep* it up so much!
maybe I don't understand the politics of being in hollywood, but if I was one of the actors, I would be even more furious at the writers for ruining my show.

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[–] madhattar 9 years ago

I'm half way through season 5 (thankfully I have a really really bad memory and barely remember double screening season 4 when it first came out and i remember it was terrible) and it isn't that much better than 4.

any character development they have keep switching as if each episode or each scene the character changes it's mind or it's point.

I was actually on imdb to see if the writers had changed since 2&3 and then i found your post.

what a waste, if i can finish season 5 i doubt i'll watch any more if they are making them but i hope they stop.

have a good day 

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[–] madhattar 9 years ago

I don't want to be terrible or worst sexist, but i did the research now and all the writers keep changing and there are a lot of new names that all happen to be women. And Michelle (the creator)'s name isn't even on a few of the shows.
so don't know if they are trying somehitng new or have no budget or she is just bored, but yes the writers of 5 are very different to the other seasons. (and yes season 4 had new writers added.)
also they no longer use story editors, or at least not credited, season 2 always had Steve Cochrane and Duana Taha and that started to fade in season 3 to be completely gone by 4.

and yes this seems to be the end.
have a good day 

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[–] terencespark 9 years ago

I will never understand one show having different writers joining in, especially in the middle. If they had success with certain writers, they should keep the same writers.

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[–] Morbius_Fitzgerald 9 years ago

And Michelle (the creator)'s name isn't even on a few of the shows.

You just noticed NOW she left the show? She left in the first 5 episodes of Season 2. Not for any other reason than she wanted to try other things.

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[–] madhattar 9 years ago

I mean they even removed her "creator" credit from it. so even if she wasn't writing it, it looks like she didn't even want any connection to it. this is based on IMDB's credits.

but yes down hill from 2 on. shame. but jumping in and out of writers in season 4 and 5 is just silly. you can see there is no logical character development.
I mean Z alone kept jumping from good to bad in split seconds.

have a good day 

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[–] Morbius_Fitzgerald 9 years ago

I'd say I liked Seasons 2 and 3. 2 just had the distinction of its very, very long when it didn't need to be. However, I don't really recall a crap episode from that season or a way in how it could've been better (although I saw it something like 3 years ago so maybe my tastes could've changed) and 3 was just generally the first season on autopilot with a *beep* "villain of the season". The fourth was turning out like 3 until (as I would've said earlier) "Of All The Gin Joints" where I began to feel the show was going to get better...and then we got Rainer...a plotline so convoluted and *beep* that the one thing that would've completely fixed it would be a) She's still in her Dawning ritual or b) She's under a mind control spell.

As for Michelle not wanting any connection to it...after Rainer (I WILL NEVER SHUT UP ABOUT HOW THIS PLOTLINE WAS CRAP!) I wouldn't be surprised. However many of the original writers of Lost Girl have joined her new show "Killjoys", even the ones who made that plot line a reality so...hell if I know whats going on.

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[–] Morbius_Fitzgerald 9 years ago

Honestly, what makes the part on the writers so weird is that...even in Season 4, there is STILL build up to The Wanderer being this all evil entity. In Groundhog Fae, Tamsin gives him that sort of build up to Bo as she's being forced into the machine that'll make her into candy (and no, I am NOT phased at all by that being a plot point!). So how they made that mistake...I'm not sure.

My only guess as to how they did that was The Writers really wanted Bo to attack The Wanderer, but realised they wrote themselves into a corner since the show was still going to go on for another season. So instead of rewrites (and regaining ones memory in 5 episodes when...a whole season would've been good enough for that premise!) they decided "hey, the people who watch this show really like sex, why not make The Wanderer a male love interest for Bo" "Hey, yeah, that sounds good. I mean, she hasn't had a male love interest since...ever." "Um...guys, what about the script we JUST sent to shoot where we gave The Wanderer that evil backstory" "No one's gonna care about that!" "You spent a season and a half building him up" "The fans won't notice." "I'd like to leave at the end of the season." "So the decision is unanimous!"

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[–] terencespark 9 years ago

seriously, it's INSULTING if you think about it. the writers apparently have no respect for our intelligence.

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[–] NYPinTA 9 years ago

Can't really disagree with any points made in this thread. I did appreciate what they were trying to do with season 4. But there were several outside factors that hampered them:

First, Anna Silk was on maternity leave so she couldn't start filming for two weeks after the show started production. (Why they didn't wait for her, I have no idea though.) So, they started without Bo and that threw a lot of people off.

Second, Rainer. It does feel like they changed who Rainer was supposed to be halfway through. The actor who portrayed him even had his own official cast photo so I think he was supposed to be something more, even if he wasn't Bo's father. I do think they tried to demonstrate that Bo was being manipulated but I don't think it translated well. The fact that she called Rainer her "destiny" when that is not who Bo is was supposed to be a clue she wasn't herself and not the writers making a mistake with her character. Bo was acting off for a reason.

Third, it was supposed to be Lauren that died at the end, not Kenzi. But Ksenia Solo requested to be released from her contract so they switched it to Kenzi dying in order to let her out. Would Lauren have died sacrificing herself? I don't think that was going to be her fate. I have a feeling she was going to be taken out by Evony or someone else and the portal thing was a last minute solution to Ksenia Solo's exit.

Someone mentioned them changing writers often but that's actually not uncommon on TV shows. How often the show runner changed though is, AFAIK. Usually there is one show runner and they are supposed to keep everything on track. (Ha. Death Train joke.) But Michelle Lovrette and Jay Firestone did not see eye to eye (based on what one of the actors said at a convention last year) on the show and she left. (Did she leave on her own or was pushed, I don't know. But if you watch Killjoys, I think you'll see more of what she wanted for Bo in Dutch.)

So, it was a season that had to keep changing course due to outside circumstances on top of some not very good writing. Which is a bummer because they really had an opportunity with Bo questioning who she is without her memories. (Even if it was just a few months worth) and add to it all of her closest having experienced an alternative life without her in it and how that changed how they related to each other to make Bo feel even more on the outside then she did when she first came back. :/

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[–] Morbius_Fitzgerald 9 years ago

Michelle Lovrette and Jay Firestone did not see eye to eye (based on what one of the actors said at a convention last year) on the show and she left.

I heard she left under good pretenses with everyone. My mistake then.

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[–] Thomas_SC 9 years ago

Very good post, lots of good info.

Second, Rainer. It does feel like they changed who Rainer was supposed to be halfway through. The actor who portrayed him even had his own official cast photo so I think he was supposed to be something more, even if he wasn't Bo's father. I do think they tried to demonstrate that Bo was being manipulated but I don't think it translated well. The fact that she called Rainer her "destiny" when that is not who Bo is was supposed to be a clue she wasn't herself and not the writers making a mistake with her character. Bo was acting off for a reason.

The whole Rainer/Wanderer thing was done very poorly, especially after a pretty effective buildup in the 2nd half of Season 3. Wouldn't be surprised if they changed things midway through. I still think, but have no proof, that Bo going "Dark" was supposed to go somewhere else other than the Dawning as well.

Third, it was supposed to be Lauren that died at the end, not Kenzi. But Ksenia Solo requested to be released from her contract so they switched it to Kenzi dying in order to let her out. Would Lauren have died sacrificing herself? I don't think that was going to be her fate. I have a feeling she was going to be taken out by Evony or someone else and the portal thing was a last minute solution to Ksenia Solo's exit.

I had not heard this before though, interesting.

But Michelle Lovrette and Jay Firestone did not see eye to eye (based on what one of the actors said at a convention last year) on the show and she left. (Did she leave on her own or was pushed, I don't know. But if you watch Killjoys, I think you'll see more of what she wanted for Bo in Dutch.)

I am not surprised by this though, not a fan of Firestone. As for Killjoys, it never really caught my attention. Might try to watch it again one of these days.

I do agree with your overall point, I wasn't a fan of the 4th Season (as I've written about quite a bit on this board) but there were some good ideas behind Season 4, the execution and ultimate result was very poor, however. Very big missed opportunity.

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[–] bricebu 9 years ago

Wow, what a thread. Many good points, well-expressed and well-supported.

I am pretty much on board with many of the complaints voiced above.

"Lost Girl" was a show I had on my list of things to watch "someday". I'm a Buffy fan from way back, and the premise of LG had always intrigued me, but it wasn't until a couple of months ago I took the plunge and started watching on NetFlix -- mild binge-watching, maybe 10-12 episodes a week.

I enjoyed the show very much; Anna Silk was well-cast, and blessed with her fantastically pretty, fresh-faced charisma she carried the show and made it look easy. Impressive. The supporting cast was good, and both the characters and stories were generally well-drawn and engaging, with a nice balance of drama, action, and (sometimes wry, sometimes campy) humor.

But even early on -- I saw so many episodes, so quickly, that it's hard to parse it all now -- late season 1, maybe season 2, I began to feel that the writing was falling short from time to time. Among other things, I began to question the depth of the characters' relationships and motivations.

I guess the major incoherencies that you all are talking about didn't kick in 'til season 4, but way before that I was starting to feel that the scripts weren't living up to the promise of the premise. The big resolutions seemed to lacked the gravitas implicitly promised by the set-ups. The intensity of some of the romantic relationships wasn't REALLY supported by the interactions (or even the chemistry) between the characters involved. IMO.

Ok, I'm being vague, not offering specific examples, but I wanted to chime in, and to talk about something else for a moment.

Halfway through season 1, it occurred to me that the quirky little sidekick might be the best thing about the show, and that the actress who brought her to life every week might be the brightest talent in the bunch. (And that's saying something.) As the series progressed, my appreciation for Ksenia Solo's sparkly energy, and for her nuanced performance of what might have otherwise been a two-dimensional comic-relief character, grew and grew.

I agree that S4 is messy and disappointing on many levels, but some of the Kenzi material is very good indeed. And, as bizarre as the season opener was, I was pleased to see the writers finally tap into Solo's dancing ability. (That ability itself was arguably out-of-character for Kenzi, but I decided not to care about that. Heh.) 

More to the point, the Kenzi material in s4.e11 ("End of a Line") was superb, and Ksenia may have made me a life-long fan with her performance. She's wonderful anyway, but I've watched her scenes in that episode a dozen times now, and she kills it. KILLS it. No cracks. No wrong notes. She's the real deal. She ripped my heart right out of my chest, and ran off with it. (I'm still trying to get it back. Can you tell?) 

Half of one episode is not nearly enough to salvage a season, but it's a bright spot. Credit the writers for making it coherent, for harvesting cruel ironies that were seeded many months before and were rooted in events that go back as far as the season 3 closer.

(When I get the chance, I'm gonna watch S5 regardless. I need to see where it all goes. At this writing, I know nothing about season 5. If I'm disappointed, so be it.)

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[–] terencespark 9 years ago

"Lost Girl" was a show I had on my list of things to watch "someday". I'm a Buffy fan from way back, and the premise of LG had always intrigued me, but it wasn't until a couple of months ago I took the plunge and started watching on NetFlix -- mild binge-watching, maybe 10-12 episodes a week.

Same here. it was on my que for a long time before I had some time off work to binge watch.

But even early on -- I saw so many episodes, so quickly, that it's hard to parse it all now -- late season 1, maybe season 2, I began to feel that the writing was falling short from time to time. Among other things, I began to question the depth of the characters' relationships and motivations.

I guess the major incoherencies that you all are talking about didn't kick in 'til season 4, but way before that I was starting to feel that the scripts weren't living up to the promise of the premise. The big resolutions seemed to lacked the gravitas implicitly promised by the set-ups. The intensity of some of the romantic relationships wasn't REALLY supported by the interactions (or even the chemistry) between the characters involved. IMO.

Somehow, through all of the vague explanations, I totally understand what you mean. Oftentimes, I would be intrigued and even impressed at certain plot developments, then couldn't help but be slightly let down as story unfolds or relationship doesn't get to where it should. (I don't think I ever felt strong chemistry with any of her love interests..?)
BUT I stuck through it because it was interesting enough and I was really hoping they'd pull through........ never making that mistake again with a show!

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[–] blackpearl39 9 years ago

I stopped watching In the middle of ridiculous season 4. Just finished watching all of season 4 and sorry to say season 5 on Netflix. the only season I purchased off iTunes was season 1. It is truly the best written and acted of all five. I cannot believe how off the rails this show went from season one. I wish the cast best of luck in future roles.

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[–] destroyerwod 9 years ago

I just finished watching Season 5 and altough things turned out better in the end, i think the season could had been so much better. Again some plot holes and some "why it got this way" factor.

But season 4, and the whole wanderer story.... CRAAAAP. Its even worst when it was builded pretty nicely in season 3, but just turned out so poorly.

Alice is the worst character of all time, she need to die in the last movie. Chris/Jill are RE !!!

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[–] hilko-rigterink 8 years ago

Somewhere throughout season 3 it got more and more redicoulous. I loved season 1 and 2. But... well... they should have stopped after season 2 and then it would have been one of the most amazing series ever.
In season 4 everything became a joke and the series didnt recover from that anymore.

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[–] terencespark 8 years ago

ugh I had almost forgotten about my angst from this show's epic failure and you just reminded me again. lol

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[–] filmgrad-09746 8 years ago

I feel like I read somewhere that initially they had hoped/expected s4 would be another 22 episode season, and started writing a more epic storyline and pacing for the long haul in case this was the last season...but then the studio chopped it and everything had to be (sloppily) re-worked to wrap up in only 13 eps, so that's partly why things were all over the place. That plus yeah, Anna's maternity leave forced some plot oddities. As to why they didn't wait for her to resume filming, I'm guessing it was financial reasons. Excuses aside, there was also just overall uninformed, inconsistent, and flat out bad writing.

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