MovieChat Forums > Senna (2011) Discussion > A bit disappointing. Missing racing scen...

A bit disappointing. Missing racing scenes.

posted 14 years ago by criolitico
23 replies | jump to latest

It's a well done, very watchable documentary. But being a Senna fan, I just can't understand how they didn't put more racing scenes on it.

How can one make a movie about Senna and doesn't include Donnington PArk 1993?? What about the amazing manouvers against Mansell, Piquet, Prost??
The producer had access to 5000 hours of footage, but didn't include the best. Too much talk; too less racing action.

I highly recommend watching the 15 minute Top Gear tribute to Senna. Now that's something!

PS: The best part of the movie to me was the the emotional hug between Senna and Fangio.

[–] Littlebitsofgaming 14 years ago

Then you missed the point of the documentary.
It was not made to show how good a driver he was.
It was made to show what kind of a man he was.
Why would you want to watch a new documentary with the same old footage already seen 100's of times?

I welcomed the never before seen footage. The drivers meetings during the infamous Prost/Senna battle showed what REALLY happend.
The home movie footage showed us he was humble and some what 'shy'.

I would have been annoyed if I sat there for over 2 hours watching the same stuff I have already seen.
As for the 'talking'...that was the best thing about the film. Heraring people's personal thoughts and memories.

The greatest trick the Devil ever pulled was convincing the world he is God.

[–] jcp-12 14 years ago

I kind of agree with both of the previous posters. I am a big Senna fan but I did feel when I had finished watching it there was not much I hadn't seen before, apart from the obvious home movie clips which I guess the Senna family wanted to keep to themselves until a film like this was made. 95% of the other scenes I had seen before on various web sites/documentries, only the drivers meeting with Balestre had I not seen. I too would of liked to have seen some more racing action especially from 85-87 when he drove for Lotus as I have always felt this has never been covered very well by any other documentries I have watched. Its main focus was the Senna/Prost/Balestre rivalry which has never been done before in such depth. Overall a bloody good watch but I feel could have been better.

[–] Littlebitsofgaming 14 years ago

Yeah, seeing more of Senna on track and in the Lotus, etc would have been great...if it was a documentary about his racing.
But again, it's not.

This film was meant to be more about the man under the helmet and was meant to show us behind the scenes stuff previously not seen. For us to hear of the experiences of those that knew him.
It's a film about Senna the man, not Senna the driver.

Pointing out the documentary lacked racing scenes, etc is idiotic as that was never the intention of the film in the first place.
It's kind of like going to watch a Batman film only to complain at the lack of Superman.

The greatest trick the Devil ever pulled was convincing the world he is God.

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[–] scottenman2005 14 years ago

Yeah I agree,, It needed more Racing footage... I mean, think about it, you guys are hardcore fans, you have already seen the footage. I remember when he died, but I was "Into" F1 back then, so I had no idea it was a really big deal... More racing footage backs up what an amazing driver he was without having to be a Fanboy to understand it, you know... Check out David Knight Iron Man of Enduro, Great sports Documentary with a good balance of footage and facts.... Thanks for the Top Gear tip, Im watching it now

[–] countys32 14 years ago

You can please some of the people some of the time but you cant please all of the people all of the time.

[–] scottenman2005 14 years ago

Its not about "Pleasing me",, its the difference between a good documentary, and a GREAT one.... Senna was good, but after a week, I completely forgot about it... And more Racing footage would of made it much better...Documentary's like
The Cove, and
Bigger Stronger Faster,
Murderball,
etc

Those were so well done, your still thinking about them YEARS after you watched them...

[–] bmitov 13 years ago

I for one will probably never forget this documentary.

[–] joseph_michaels_84 14 years ago

It's unfortunate, but hey this is why you don't see everything, there is so much that could have been shown otherwise the film would have been 10 hours long!

Not that I would have minded but someone told there was something in there about Donnelly, another racing driver. He'd heard or seen him before but something they shown in the film made his heart really sink, something tells me that this film ought to be watched by the millions in the UK.

[–] Gambit74 14 years ago

I heard some of the footage, such as Donnington Park in 93, just wasn't good enough quality for the cinema. Thats also mentioned in this months Empire magazine.

[–] Conquerer13 14 years ago

That's certainly rubbish given the quality of several other clips shown, plus the fact that we saw the Donington footage looking fantastic in the HD Top Gear tribute just last year.

[–] ciaran-flynn 14 years ago

"It's kind of like going to watch a Batman film only to complain at the lack of Superman"

Thats a ridiculous anology. Come up with something better

[–] Littlebitsofgaming 13 years ago

Thats a ridiculous anology. Come up with something better

It's a perfect anology, complaining about something not meant to be in there in the first place.

Jesus died for our sins. As he's already dead...sin away.

[–] The_Lord_Flashheart 14 years ago

It would have been nice to see a few more racing scenes, but as Mclane has said in his posts, this movie was about the man, not the driver. Plus maybe they cut some due time constraints. Maybe there will be some extra footage when the dvd is released?

Yorkshire is a place. Yorkshire is a state of mind.

[–] aperfectscar 14 years ago

Maybe there will be some extra footage when the dvd is released?

Unlikely I imagine. I doubt they'd pay for any extra race footage so the only thing that could be extra for the dvd would be the interviews they filmed specifically for the movie.

[–] Littlebitsofgaming 13 years ago

Maybe there will be some extra footage when the dvd is released?

I have the DVD and it has a commentary by the film-makers.
Worth listing to as they explain the "lack" of some of the footage.
They say they had a deal with Bernie Ecclestone which would only allow them to show a certain % of "offical F1 footage", not just on track but also the off-track stuff. Obviously they were limited by budget too so could only afford a specfic deal. Dispite the fact they actually doubled the deal to include as much as they could afford. Plus they had 1000's of hours of footage to go through not just races, but qualy sessions, practice, interviews, etc.
It's understandable some stuff is "missing" trying to squeeze 1000's of hours into 2 hours would leave some overspill.
So basicaly they had to pick an choose what and what not to show with the limited amount of time/money allowed and still tell a story.

As I said before.
I for one am glad they chose more off-track stuff and unseen material over all the footage already seen over and over.

Jesus died for our sins. As he's already dead...sin away.

[–] mrslimm 14 years ago

There is footage of the 93 Donington Park race; just Crena Curves and the old hairpin not the whole first lap.

[–] chamney 14 years ago

i read an interview with mcclane that stated the famous donington footage has been seen too many times..which is true..as a huge senna fan i thought the documentary encapsulated his whole character..much more effectively then the top gear tribute or 'a star named ayrton senna'..'a star named ayrton senna' would please the die hard fan a lot more as it is laden with tonnes of race footage..including his donington victory but 'senna' is much more narrative driven and a more complete piece of filmmaking thanks to its fantastic editing and bernie eccelstone's contribution of the behind the scenes footage from his own personal collection of old tapes...brilliant film..simply class

[–] puketai 13 years ago

I agree there was not enough race footage - and especially qualifying laps. Showing his 1991 Silverstone qualifying lap (only second!) would have 'made' this film for me.

There's a partial video on youtube here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FwJzxh5E2mY

EPIC! Does anyone have a copy of the full lap please?

[–] break-stoof 13 years ago

Well I went to a talk with Asif Kapadia and he actually explained that there was loads of footage that had to be cut from the final film (notably more racing scenes as well as other archive footage), and even said that some of his favourite scenes had to be cut, simply because they either could not get the copyright for them or couldn't get the clearance needed to use the footage. Apparently, each clip is owned by someone, and that someone needs to be identified and usually paid a large sum of money. Also, pretty much every person in every shot needs to be identified and needs to sign a release form for that clip to be used. A complete nightmare!

So that is the reason why there were missing racing scenes, though I think, in the end, the film still works incredibly well.