When will Stefan ever not be useless? - The Vampire Diaries (2009) Discussion

[–] 8 years ago

[deleted]

[–] mymammakat 8 years ago

Just another weak half ass move by Stefan, that's why I wonder sometimes what his true motives are.
Was extremely strange , the carnival lighting, like everything's ok, really?
I remember the Chinese Lantern lighting, everything was not ok then either, far from it.
Shady Stefan...

We're all on our way out, act accordingly.

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[–] bluesysax 8 years ago

Glad someone else mentioned the lantern ceremony thing. This scene harks back to Stefan burying his head in fake grief instead of actually dealing with the problems that need to faced, like the sirens. Jeez, Damon has given enough clues already about hell, sirens, the devil etc...Applesauce penguin anyone? Damon is blatantly saying help!!!!

It's just typical though isn't it? Whenever someone else is in trouble, Damon has an actual plan and the whole gang are ready to crack on. When it's Damon...crickets...or...he's bad, let's get rid.

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Never argue with stupid people,they will drag you down to their level then beat you with experience.

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[–] mymammakat 8 years ago

Yes, as usual Damon is fighting evil, and gets to be hated for trying to save their asses, clues all over their heads, until it's too late, prob.
I think Bonnie and Enzo may be able to help though, they should, I'm thinking they owe Damon for saving both their asses.
Nobody's talking about that though.

We're all on our way out, act accordingly.

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[–] bluesysax 8 years ago

We will see if Bonenzo get their act together to save Damon or not. Damon killing Tyler might just push Bonnie into the hate camp and Enzo might just follow.
I hope not, both of them have just had recent experiences of mind control and loss of free will when it comes to murderous intentions towards their friends.

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Never argue with stupid people,they will drag you down to their level then beat you with experience.

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[–] lindsay-kneece 8 years ago

Stefan knows no other way. He's pathetic. He has become my most disliked character on this show

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[–] 8 years ago

[deleted]

[–] bluesysax 8 years ago

I've disliked him since S1. Welcome to the club, it's quite a large one these days.

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Never argue with stupid people,they will drag you down to their level then beat you with experience.

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[–] christinaparker-60256 8 years ago

I do not know why they ever let Stefan or Damon be in charge of plans. They consistently make bad decision after bad decision that lead to people being killed. Of the people on this show, the only ones who I would ever trust to be in charge of anything are:

1. Caroline (although she has been made dumber by her association to Stefan)
2. Pearl
3. Grams
4. Early Katherine

Why everyone defers to these 2 is beyond me.

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[–] 8 years ago

[deleted]

[–] christinaparker-60256 8 years ago

I liked Lexi a lot, but the fact that she was such a martyr for other people made me lose faith in her character (when the other side was collapsing and she died so that Stefan could have his brother, I mean come on).

I agree, Stefan definitely does not care about Caroline as much as she does him.

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[–] mymammakat 8 years ago

Wow, I'm really sad reading you're, post.
If you think Caroline is the best person to be in charge,............"
Watch S1,S2.....NOT

We're all on our way out, act accordingly.

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[–] EmilyTheDramaQueen 8 years ago

Well Caroline has really matured since seasons 1 and 2. She's the characterthat has matured the most.

"Who lives, who dies, who tells your story"

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[–] mymammakat 8 years ago

Nope, Damon has made the furthest journey toward redemption, not Caroline. The fact that she still hates him is a testament to that.
Caroline is too comptetive, she'll do anything to win, the whole June wedding, queen Salvatore thing is making me sick.
She's no better than any of them, yet she thinks she is.
A leader needs to acknowledge who they really are before they can expect others to follow.

We're all on our way out, act accordingly.

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[–] EmilyTheDramaQueen 8 years ago

I don't blame her for hating Damon. Don't get why people are acting like she shouldn't.

"Who lives, who dies, who tells your story"

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[–] TaylorBruh25 8 years ago

She absolutely should.

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[–] mymammakat 8 years ago

I'll give you a reason, Caroline would never have had that last summer of picnics, or any of the other memories from her mothers last months if Damon hadn't stopped to help Liz while he was on the other side, he and Rick saved Liz.
Then when Caroline gave her mom vamp blood causing her cancer to accelerate it was Damon that did something about it.
I could give you more reasons like, if it wasn't for Damon, Klaus would have killed her and Tyler, and if it wasn't for Damon and Bonnie Stefan, Tyler and Enzo would never have come back from the other side.
So, maybe it's ridiculous that she still hates him.

We're all on our way out, act accordingly.

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[–] EmilyTheDramaQueen 8 years ago

Just cause someone does some nice things, it doesn't make them a good person or mean people should like them. Like what another character on this other show I watch once said "His many ass like qualities outweighs his good ones"

"Who lives, who dies, who tells your story"

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[–] cocogurl-95192 8 years ago

Couldn't agree more. And btw, I love the quote! ;D

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[–] mymammakat 8 years ago

Your frivolous "nice things" description doesn't even come close to the reasons I gave you which is why you had to compensate by using some lame quote from another show.

We're all on our way out, act accordingly.

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[–] EmilyTheDramaQueen 8 years ago

First of all it's not that serious. Maybe you need to loosen up since it is just a TV show and I do stand by what I said every bit of it. I won't take it back because it's what I believe.

"Who lives, who dies, who tells your story"

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[–] mymammakat 8 years ago

I'm glad that you stand by what you believe, and wouldn't ask you to take it back, merely expressing my opinion, is that ok with you?

We're all on our way out, act accordingly.

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[–] orgine 8 years ago

Exactly. It's ridiculous the way people have bought into this notion that one's actions "balance out". Not even to mention the obvious which is that - Damon didn't do any of those "nice" things for Caroline. He saved Liz because she was his friend. He saved Tyler & Caroline because he wanted to jeopardise Klaus's plans so Elena won't hate him for turning her into a vampire. So even the "good" things he did were all about himself, in the end.

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[–] mymammakat 8 years ago

Right, all those "nice" things Damon did , he did for love.
Is that really the worst motivation?
Selfish, yes, but also generous because he takes the hate and isolation that comes with saving the people he cares about at any cost.

We're all on our way out, act accordingly.

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[–] orgine 8 years ago

Because fairness/ justice isn't a balancing scale where people do 'good' things to 'cancel' out the 'bad'. Intention / contrition are key. And Damon had no contrition about what he did to Caroline. The "nice" things he did for "love" - he didn't do any of them to make amends with her or to show remorse to her. He did them to not jeopardise his relationship with other people. Not to go all scriptural but: "If you love those who love you, what credit is that to you? Even sinners love those who love them."

So why should Caroline give him credit for helping/ saving her when she was only a means to an end --- and if that means would have involved harming her/ killing her, he'd have been just as capable of doing so? There are several precedents through the course of the show of Damon attacking Elena's friends and family when she hurts his feelings. Which is the problem with Damon - he is a static character who doesn't grow because the narrative indulges him. (e.g. recently with Tyler's death. What was the point of killing off Tyler when it made zero impact on Damon's relationships with the others?)

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[–] mymammakat 8 years ago

The point of "Tyler's death" if you think he's dead, was to stop everyone else from trying to save him. Tyler took one for the team.
I think we will see him again, his body is buried, he didn't go to Cade's hell, and Selina didn't eat his dead flesh, like Georgie.
His soul is safe.

We're all on our way out, act accordingly.

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[–] orgine 8 years ago

But it didn't stop everyone from trying to save him, did he? There was no "we have to stake Damon" arc or "Damon is too far gone, we need to put him down." The worst that happened was that he was dessicated for what... barely even half an episode?

And if Tyler isn't dead, then it's still boils down to the narrative protecting Damon. So we get a "shocking" moment of him killing Tyler and the constant refrain that this is the point of no return ... but - without any effort made on Damon's part but entirely due to narrative fiat - Tyler comes back to life. So even though Damon made the decision to kill Tyler and be permanently estranged from his friends/family ... the decision has no consequences whatsoever because the writers erase/un-do Tyler's death.

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[–] mymammakat 8 years ago

I think there will be "we have to kill Damon " next ep, and if Tyler isn't dead Damon will not have to be forgiven because Tyler didn't die.
If Tyler did die, he did it to make it worth something, like he promised Liv.
There are always consequences on this show, always "balance" with nature.
I liked Tyler, thought he was brave and a hero. I didn't like seeing him die either.
Just hope he's not gone forever, and don't think he is, he is too good for that.

We're all on our way out, act accordingly.

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[–] TaylorBruh25 8 years ago

Actually It's "we have to kill Enzo" next episode.

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[–] mymammakat 8 years ago

Ok, didn't know, and am not happy about that

We're all on our way out, act accordingly.

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[–] TaylorBruh25 8 years ago

I am, there's no reason Stefan, Caroline, Alaric, or Matt should put him above the risk of Rics children.

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[–] mymammakat 8 years ago

Of course not, why do you think they would?

We're all on our way out, act accordingly.

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[–] TaylorBruh25 8 years ago

The most likely candidates to keep him alive would be Bonnie and maybe Caroline cause of her promise to Bonnie.

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[–] awesomebamon 8 years ago

Guess that would fit with the rumors of Enzo dying by the mid season Finale. GUess we will see.

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[–] christinaparker-60256 8 years ago

Damon's love is extremely selfish and all about him. It's why he fed vampire blood to Elena back in the initial seasons. It's why he tried to dessicate in season 7. Damon is the most selfish person on the entire show and almost all of his motivations are centered around him not feeling bad.

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[–] bluesysax 8 years ago

I think the storyline will be holding a mirror up to quite a few of these characters going forward. Sybil has started with Stefan so i'm hopeful we will see some of the sanctimonious diatribe start to dissipate when they all have to face up to their many, many acts of evil.
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Never argue with stupid people,they will drag you down to their level then beat you with experience.

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[–] mymammakat 8 years ago

😉 I think so too! I think everyone's sins will be outed, some that we know of and some that we don't.
Thank goodness redemption is the theme of this final season though, would hate for them to not have a successful plan this time, 😏

We're all on our way out, act accordingly.

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[–] bluesysax 8 years ago

I don't have an issue with Carolines' ongoing dislike of Damon, she has a right to hate him forever if she so chooses. What bugs me more than anything is that she has forgiven people for much worse things, including herself because their actions did not affect her personally. Her moral compass is as skewed as the rest of them but you would never know it from the way she acts.

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Never argue with stupid people,they will drag you down to their level then beat you with experience.

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[–] christinaparker-60256 8 years ago

Yes yes we get it you love Damon and are incapable of looking at it objectively.

Caroline is the only one, despite supernatural shenanigans, to have a job and a family and her life together. She is not the same person as she was in S1 or 2 so that argument is crap. Are you the same person you were when you were 17? Actually, don't answer that.

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[–] bluesysax 8 years ago

Caroline is the only one, despite supernatural shenanigans, to have a job and a family and her life together. She is not the same person as she was in S1 or 2 so that argument is crap.

No she isn't the same. I liked Caroline in S1 and S2, now she is just an insufferable hypocrite and almost as useless as Stefan.

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Never argue with stupid people,they will drag you down to their level then beat you with experience.

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[–] christinaparker-60256 8 years ago

She may be insufferable or hypocritical, but I would trust her to execute a plan more than any of the others.

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[–] bluesysax 8 years ago

But why? When has she ever formulated, executed and lead a plan successfully?

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Never argue with stupid people,they will drag you down to their level then beat you with experience.

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[–] christinaparker-60256 8 years ago

I gave examples elsewhere in the thread. When has anyone on this show ever lead a successful plan?

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[–] mymammakat 8 years ago

The only successful plan I can remember is when Damon had Bonnie fake her death at the 60s dance, to convince Klaus that she was dead.

We're all on our way out, act accordingly.

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[–] bluesysax 8 years ago

Or when Damon (and Bonnie) rescued Stefan from the other side?

What about when Damon and Bonnie went to the 1903 world to get Lily back to turn on Stefans humanity ?

What about the plan to rescue Stefan from the tomb vamps?

Damons plan to save Liz from a vamp life of pain and misery?

Or the plan to save Bonnie from dying from magic numbing blood pills?

Just a few examples off the top of my head 😀.

There have also been some epic failures but you can't win them all, however, regardless, you can always count on Damon to have a plan because he isn't useless.

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Never argue with stupid people,they will drag you down to their level then beat you with experience.

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[–] mymammakat 8 years ago

You're right, I have mentioned most of these happenings in other posts but some people would rather ignore the facts than admit that Damon is a leader.

We're all on our way out, act accordingly.

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[–] bluesysax 8 years ago

Or when Damon (and Bonnie) rescued Stefan from the other side?

What about when Damon and Bonnie went to the 1903 world to get Lily back to turn on Stefans humanity ?

What about the plan to rescue Stefan from the tomb vamps?

Damons plan to save Liz from a vamp life of pain and misery?

Or the plan to save Bonnie from dying from magic numbing blood pills?

Just a few examples off the top of my head 😀.

There have also been some epic failures but you can't win them all, however, regardless, you can always count on Damon to have a plan because he isn't useless.

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Never argue with stupid people,they will drag you down to their level then beat you with experience.

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[–] TaylorBruh25 8 years ago

Eh, the only real successful ones out of those was saving Liz and Stefan from the Tomb Vamps.

Damon and Bonnie's plan didn't go successful because they planned the leave The Heretics locked away, and it didn't happen. In fact leaving Kai there freed them.

Damon also intended to come back to life in his Other Side plan, while I'll definitely give him his credit that it was selfless to take that risk, he didn't intend to die.

But, I actually don't hate Damon and here's some other plans that worked.

Brought Bonnie back to life with Tessa the first time.

Him and Stefan rescued Elena from Elijah.

Him and Alaric daggered Elijah.

Him, Stefan, and Tyler dessicated Klaus and saved Elena.

He got the Armory to finish off the Phoenix Stone Souls.

He and Alaric saved Stefan and switched his soul back with Ambrose's.

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[–] christinaparker-60256 8 years ago

What happened with Tessa and Bonnie? I cannot remember that storyline at all. Was it when she became the anchor? Was that Damon's idea?

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[–] mymammakat 8 years ago

It was Damons idea for Silas to bring Bonnie back by giving Silas the cure so he could find peace with Amara.
Jeremy and Bonnie discovered that Amara could exist on both sides , so it was their idea that Bonnie should become the anchor.
Was a complicated exercise in plan adjustment.
Resulted in Bonnie becoming the anchor.
Amara and Silas died, and Stefan continued his ptsd after he killed Silas.

We're all on our way out, act accordingly.

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[–] TaylorBruh25 8 years ago

Oh yeah Jeremy and Bonnie had that idea, Damon came up with the plan.

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[–] TaylorBruh25 8 years ago

Yeah the anchor switch was Damons idea.

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[–] christinaparker-60256 8 years ago

But you can't just evaulate an act's success in a vacuum.

Damon may have short term success with some of his plans, but they almost always have far worse consequences.

The whole Lily storyline resulted in Elena being coma'd (a bunch of other negative side effects occurred too, like MF getting cleared out)

Damon saving Liz released Kai, killed Luke and ultimately killed Jo and a bunch of Geminis. And again, resulted in Elena being coma'd.

I pretend season 7 didn't happen so I can't really argue with anything you mention from that because I don't remember.

I will say, season 1 Damon was pretty effective, but after that he (like the others) because a short term thinker whose plans ultimately lost more than they gained.

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[–] mymammakat 8 years ago

Short term success is what kept most of them alive, there is always a greater evil on this show, the struggle to save each other is the key, even when they are conflicted or angry or selfish, they persevere against the enemy, most of the time.
To say a plan failed because the unknown evil element prevailed, is unfair. That's not failure, that's struggle against a stacked deck.

We're all on our way out, act accordingly.

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[–] christinaparker-60256 8 years ago

I somewhat agree with you there, perhaps a better way to evaluate it is if they could have easily foreseen something more awful happening? The Kai stuff with Liz, absolutely should have seen that coming. The Lily stuff? She was a noted ripper with like 6 crazy friends. SHould have seen it. The Klaus stuff though...I don't think they fully understood the mess that was so their actions are more justified.

It's actually kind of silly to argue this, because this is really a problem I have with the writing, not so much Damon as a character, who I don't actually believe was intended to be as dumb as I now think he is.

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[–] mymammakat 8 years ago

Maybe it's the writing but I tend to think it's probably the essence of the show. Mystic Falls and the founding families are cursed. No matter what they do, or how good or bad they are, no matter how hard they fight, they are doomed.
I think it was Jeremy S 4? Said something like, "we're all going to die here" Damon gave it half a click but I think it was important.
Also Rick as the evil original killing machine said, "You're all going to burn"
Just think it is silly to argue because in the end.. if they don't save each other no one else will.

We're all on our way out, act accordingly.

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[–] bluesysax 8 years ago

It is silly to argue especially since Damon wanted Kai dead from the start, and the plan he made with Ric to capture him and kill him was scuppered by Alaric ultimately listening to Jo when he had a gun to Kai's head, but of course no-one listens to Damon.
The gemini coven and all their twisted rituals was not Damons' fight or problem. Damon was fighting for Bonnie, and quite rightly wanted Kai dead.

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Never argue with stupid people,they will drag you down to their level then beat you with experience.

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[–] awesomebamon 8 years ago

Like Damon getting blamed for everything bad that happened in Season 7, even though others played a part.

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[–] bluesysax 8 years ago

Exactly, In season 6, Damon pretty much spent the entire time (other than trying to get Bonnie back) cleaning up other peoples messes the best he could.

Never argue with stupid people,they will drag you down to their level then beat you with experience.

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[–] mymammakat 8 years ago

Season 7 was ridiculously, and unjustly Damon condemning bull.
It was so annoying, Damon would have never been in the Phoenix stone if Stefan hadn't recklessly tried to kill Julian, I understand why he wanted him dead but Damon tried to warn him that that wasn't the time to do it, Stefan did it anyway, causing Julian's attack on Damon and Stefans own journey into the stone.
Rayna got her sword because she threatened to kill Bonnie, rather than let that happen, Damon gave it to her but it was his fault that Rayna stabbed Stefan, ugh, When Damon tried to remove himself from the drama, so no one would get hurt for trying to save him Stefan dragged him back, so he could be hated and feel guilty. He ended up saving Stefans ass anyway, and Bonnie's, and Enzo's.
By the end of the season Damon was in such a state of guilt that he ended up in the vault alone, only Enzo had the balls to try and help him.
Go Stefan. 😑

We're all on our way out, act accordingly.

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[–] bluesysax 8 years ago

Kudos to you for bringing this thread full circle to Stefan is useless 😀😀
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Never argue with stupid people,they will drag you down to their level then beat you with experience.

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[–] mymammakat 8 years ago

TY Blue, kudos to you too, always good to read your posts, even when we agree to disagree 😊

We're all on our way out, act accordingly.

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[–] mymammakat 8 years ago

She is a hypocrite, haven't seen her "working" or being a Mom since Stefan pulled a Damon on her, lol
Everything she has is what she taunted Elena about for wanting, I'm sure Delena haters love this, that's ok, cause it surely is not going to last. Stefan and Caroline deserve each other though , vampires forever, isn't that what she's really about?

We're all on our way out, act accordingly.

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[–] christinaparker-60256 8 years ago

Because who wants to watch her cooking mac and cheese for the kids or filing work reports? Why would we see it if it has no bearing on the story or what they are doing?

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[–] mymammakat 8 years ago

Exactly, Carolines job, and parenting have no bearing on the story, your words, so why are these accolades your highest praises of Caroline.
It's all bull, and that proposal, by the way , was seriously lame. Does that antique dresser Stefan got the girls come from one of his victims! Lol
BTW, Rick is a real parent with a real job, I'm thinking he should be in charge, besides he actually cares about Damon and Elena.

We're all on our way out, act accordingly.

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[–] christinaparker-60256 8 years ago

But they ARE a part of the story, we just aren't shown the menial tasks associated with work or child rearing it because it would be boring. We didn't see the interactions between Delena during that summer Stefan was in the box because it would be repetitive and boring, but it was still discussed and had an impact on the story.

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[–] mymammakat 8 years ago

I agree, I wouldn't want to witness every boring moment of Calaric diaper changing and bottle making snoozefest either, yet we were subjected to some anyway. Carolines job, a passing moment, so why does any of that make her more capable of "being in charge" ?
I know she is organized to the point of "I wanna mess her hair up and watch her cry!" But, that does not make her capable of making, good, honest, moral decision making calls?
Caroline cares about Stefan and Ricks kids, she barely flinched when Tyler died, she has been mooning after Stefan since the pilot ep., and has always been jealous of Elena, betraying Elena's trust, over and over again.
Look, I'm not saying she hasn't done good things I just think she is not the best person to trust everyone else's fate with.

We're all on our way out, act accordingly.

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[–] christinaparker-60256 8 years ago

Caroline is not perfect, but her being jealous of Elena or not mourning Tyler have nothing to do with her ability to plan and execute which is what we are discussing. You do not need to be a good person to be an effective leader. 2 instances in the show specifically are her Miss Mystic work and her planning of Jo's wedding when the wedding planner was sick. If we were comparing Caroline to Leslie Knope, she would not hold up, but when compared to the rest of the crew, she is the most effective at coming up with a plan and then pulling it off. The rest of them are just terrible at it. While Caroline did give her mom vampire blood and Damon did technically save the day, he literally had to release Kai to do it and killed Luke in the process. I do not consider this successful considering her mom died like 2 days later any way. Stefan is terrible too like why did he leave Damon unattended? Bonnie always messes with things too. Elena never even tried to lead a plan after season 1, she just counts on people rescuing her.

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[–] bluesysax 8 years ago

You do not need to be a good person to be an effective leader. 2 instances in the show specifically are her Miss Mystic work and her planning of Jo's wedding when the wedding planner was sick.

Caroline is an party organiser, not a leader. Tyler was a leader and so was Damon. The only member of the group left that I would trust is Alaric, both because he has natural leadership within the group because they do look up to him and good knowledge of the supernatural world.

While Caroline did give her mom vampire blood and Damon did technically save the day, he literally had to release Kai to do it and killed Luke in the process.

You just highlighted exactly WHY Caroline would be useless. It does not matter what Damon had to do to save Liz from an agonising death rather than one with dignity because the end result is, one of there own was the beneficiary. I certainly didn't hear Caroline complaining or anyone else for that matter. Yet again Damn is the one willing to do what it takes to save the people he loves and help his friends and yes he was successful and I'm sure Liz was very grateful.

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Never argue with stupid people,they will drag you down to their level then beat you with experience.

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[–] forksforrests 8 years ago

Honestly, I think they were all being stupid in their desire to treat themselves.

Didn't Alaric get the call from the cops about Georgie's body? Didn't that set off alarms in his mind? Why was he shown, in the very next scene, to be out and celebrating. Like, either a siren is dead and you have a pissed off Sybil OR it was a red herring and Georgie isn't a siren, so you have a siren on the loose! Why are your kids always with the babysitter anyways? Wtf (and likewise goes for Caroline, who spends MUCH more time tending to Stefan than she does her twins).

A rose is just a rose.

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