The whole 'he raped/killed/compelle d/unforgivable' argument

My issue is the double standard. Fans like to blame one character for something but not another character for doing the exact same thing or worse.

Damon is blamed for raping Caroline but Katherine is hardly ever blamed for raping Stefan.

Elena was crucified for killing Kol and all the vampires in his line but Matt wasn't for killing Finn

Elena is constantly criticized for falling in love with Damon, who hurt all of her friends in S1 , yet Caroline isn't criticized as much for falling for Klaus who was absolutely despicable.

Tyler was labeled abusive for getting out of hand yelling at Caroline in S5 when Klaus got mad and stabbed her in the stomach with a lamp

It's just craziness!!

Well, the first thing that is pissing many of us off is that despite evidence to the contrary (the definition of consent being the evidence), people still want to say Damon did not rape Caroline. There would be a lot less argument/discussion if everyone could just acknowledge that it did happen.

I personally love shows with bad people. I constantly root for the villains. I am totally fine watching a show solely about evil vampires that selfishly kill tons of people. It's just the way that this particular show goes about it is terrible. And it was actually pretty good initially, so it is disappointing that it seems to have changed so drastically.

The problem is, there is no longer any distinction in actions from the people we are supposed to consider villains and the people we're supposed to consider heroes. But the show clearly wants you to think there is a difference, that we are indeed watching heroes vs villains instead of bad guys vs bad guys. They hold up the Mystic Falls gang (mostly D & S) as the heroes and anyone else as the villain, when it makes absolutely no sense if you are looking at the story. I think a good example of this is the entirety of season 6. We're beaten over the head with the idea that Kai is awful and irredeemable because he murdered his family. And so everything must be done to keep him in the prison world, and then when he is out, kill him. But Kai is worlds better, objectively, than Damon and Stefan who have murdered SO MANY PEOPLE WITH SO LITTLE CAUSE! So this entire storyline just does not really make any sense, especially because Kai was not even trying to harm these people until they started *beep* with him. This is just one example, but I also think parts of the Katherine storyline illustrate this as well, particularly when they all sat around celebrating her death like they weren't 50x worse than she was on a good day.

The Originals versus the Mystic Falls gang in earlier seasons DOES make sense, because even though both sides are comprised of murderous vampires, you root for the MFG because the Originals are trying to harm them. In Breaking Bad, we acknowledge that Walter White is a bad guy almost every step of the way. That show does not gloss over it or try to make him a hero, he is simply a bad guy that is crazy compelling to watch. TVD refuses to let MFG be the bad guys that they are. We're constantly having to watch scenes where we are saving Damon or Enzo or Stefan, where their actions are glossed over and validated. And what's worse, when they do awful things to eachother, the show refuses to acknowledge it or let people be angry (like Damon's rape of Caroline). We're not mad because they're vampires, we're mad because there are no consequences to most of their actions and we're supposed to blindly accept that everything they do is justified even when it clearly is not. To me, it's just bad storytelling.

It makes sense I get you. But for me it's interlinked and integral not secondary. You can do one tree hill storylines on TVD for example but not TVD stories on one tree hill.

To me, this has always been a romantic drama that happens to have vampires, rather than a vampire show that has romance if that makes any sense.

Oh my gods. THANK YOU. could not have been more simply and eloquently said. You my friend, are 200% spot on. If only Julie could have found these words, instead of faultering, fast-forwarding to the morning after, retconning and changing subjects.

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For me, I don't find the murder and brutality unforgivable because I think a vampire's callous attitude towards its food source, humans, is kind of normal. Most people don't feel too bad if they kill an animal to survive - even if that survival doesn't require actually feeding on the animal. How many people kill spiders coz they're scared of them, even when they're not a threat? (Ew, spiders as a food source, why am I grossing myself out?).

But when it comes to rape...then it becomes a little more grey for me. Because these vampires are already attractive and alluring, and can have whatever they want. They could draw the line on raping people because they can have almost anyone without compulsion.

I also don't think calling it a teen show or saying it's fiction makes that okay, because we already forgive a lot on a show based on blood-sucking vampires. We let mass murder slide, we let torture slide, etc. I think we could at least say that rape is a no-no.

Before I start, I wanna make it clear that I do not condone or make excuses for rape

Really...what do you expect from a vampire-themed supernatural show?

Are these acts forgiveable? No, most of them aren't. But this is a teen soap opera, not a politically correct morality tale that the audience should be taking life lessons from.