Don't come crying about how Plec treats people of colour and write long essays about Tyler being killed off and then turn around and call Enzo a useless waste of space who should have died seasons ago because he's getting in the way of problematically shipping Bonnie with your white fave.
shareNot everyone who think that this show treats POC badly is a Bamon fan. Personally, I don't understand Bamon fandom, Damon treats Bonnie horrendously.
S.P.E.R.M member 270
The Bamon relationship in season 7 was one of the most toxic examples of platonic friendship I've seen on tv. I find it harrowing that anyone finds that dynamic appealing.
shareThat's because the friendship only served Damon. Their entire dynamic post season 6, served Damon. Bonnie's lot in life going into season 7 was to potentially die for Damon, if it came down to it, in order to keep Elena happy. Bonnie's characterization in general is toxic, sadly. And as of season 7, the Gilbert's were gone so her new owner was Damon.
I can't judge Bonenzo because I'm not actively watching, but if Bonnie is actually being seen as a woman and not a weapon to Enzo then I say more power to them, lol.
My ass may be dumb, but I ain't no dumbass...
I cannot get over how Bonnie deliberately sacrificed her life in the prison world to get Damon back to Elena and safety. True, she did not die. But he believed she did. It was so offensive and disturbing and it seriously frightens me how much the Bamon fans enjoyed seeing that.
And yes, S8!Bonenzo is beautifully written. For once, Bonnie is not only being treated as a vulnerable woman who should be cherished and defended, she's also been allowed to put herself first, even if it means going against her friends --- and she's not being punished for it! Instead, Caroline is apologising to her for not appreciating her heartache over Enzo, and promising to do everything in her power to bring him back. (And she gets to keep that promise in the very next episode, standing against Stefan for Bonnie's sake).
If you don't watch it, that's fair enough. Other than Bonnie, the rest of the show is hit-and-miss. I myself only decided to watch this last season just for the sake of nostalgia, after being away from the show for so long but it still playing such a major influence on me. But it cuts me to the bone to see people condemn Bonenzo when their own relationships were 10 times as offensive but were praised at every turn.
As I just asked, it makes it clear that these "fans" were never fans of Bonnie at all. They were always fans of Damon.
As I just asked, it makes it clear that these "fans" were never fans of Bonnie at all. They were always fans of Damon.
That's because the friendship only served Damon. Their entire dynamic post season 6, served Damon. Bonnie's lot in life going into season 7 was to potentially die for Damon
I love Enzo and Bonnie. I know a lot of Bamon fans don't like the pairing because while Enzo is like Damon he isn't Damon. In the book Bonnie and Damon had a much different relationship then they did on the show.
[love]
Kades! [/love]
The parallel characters from the books are such vastly different people from the show that I don't even see them as the same characters.
There is no appeal to the Bamon relationship on the show. Truth be told, there is no appeal to any of Damon's relationships on the show.
I wasn't a fan of the BE relationship because of the way the season started with Enzo being in love/in crush with Lily. I felt it was just Julie's way of demeaning Bonnie once again, making sure that she wasn't the one that was chosen first.
But now that it's in play, I actually find myself... enjoying it? It's nice to see Bonnie put her own happiness before the wishes of the Salvatores for a chance.
Yeah, complaining about Tyler being killed off but wanting Enzo dead is ridiculous.
The way s7 started was problematic, I will not deny that. Indeed, I don't understand why the show made a point of having Enzo in love with Lily when his devotion to her could simply be the same filial/sire devotion the other heretics had for her. I have to agree with you that it was probably another dig at Bonnie/Kat Graham.
But the relationship that developed after all that is undeniably beautiful. If Bamon fans can look past the years of Damon treating Bonnie like a literal magical slave - and if you Bonkai fans can look past the violence of 1994 - then I can certainly look past Enzo kissing the wrong woman 3 years before he and Bonnie started dating.
Yeah, complaining about Tyler being killed off but wanting Enzo dead is ridiculous.
But the relationship that developed after all that is undeniably beautiful. If Bamon fans can look past the years of Damon treating Bonnie like a literal magical slave - and if you Bonkai fans can look past the violence of 1994 - then I can certainly look past Enzo kissing the wrong woman 3 years before he and Bonnie started dating.
OK, on re-read, I realise that I might have been a bit on edge when I posted this and I took your words in the wrong way. I'm sorry about that. For what it's worth, I think you being able to put aside your own shipping preferences to be happy with Bonnie's current storyline, shows your sincerity towards your fanning of her character. I strongly believe that Bonnie's storyline in season 8 is excellent* and her true fans would appreciate that. Anybody that doesn't simply shows their self to a bigger fan of the male half of their ship than of Bonnie herself.
*Excellent by TVD-standards, I mean. Let's not get carried away! 😎
For the record, I hate Bonnie/Damon and Bonnie/Kai but mostly tolerated Bonnie/Enzo and Bonnie/Jeremy. Long story short, I've been disappointed with all of Bonnie's relationships because I disliked the male characters she was with.
In truth, I only liked one male character on this show and that was Tyler. I think he was the best developed from season 1-3. I preferred him with Caroline, though.
Don't be thinking about me when I'm gone.
I wasn't thinking about you when you were here.
Malarkey is one of the few reasons I’m even watching this show. The BE arc, Bonnie getting her magic back, Baroline and maybe Seline are the only reason most of the fans I talk to are still watching.
And seriously, MM is such a good actor and so sweet to his fans. He doesn’t deserve the hate he gets on twitter from people over-invested in non-canon fictional ships. He didn’t sign up for this.
What is this all about? Enzo is white. His character is supposed to be Italian, so white. I don't know the minutia of Malarkey's family tree but he looks white, even if he has a Cherokee great grandmother or something. Also, Tyler wasn't a PoC. The character is white and the actor is white. He might be Hispanic, but he's still white. So let's educate ourselves a bit about the difference between race and ethnicity before people get on their moral high horse about things.
Also, why would anyone complain about Bonnie and Enzo? They're epic. Probably my favorite romance on the show to date. It's not a rinse and repeat like so many of the other relationships have been. Caroline/Tyler/Klaus was a total repeat of the Elena/Stefan/Damon love triangle. Caroline with Stefan now is basically a repeat of Stefan with Elena, Bonnie with Jer was a repeat of paint drying. But Bonnie and Enzo is new and fresh with a dynamic we haven't seen on the show before. Enzo isn't portrayed as all good or all bad, he's insanely loyal, totally hot and head over heels about Bonnie. Bonnie is also not all good or all bad (although mostly all good), she's also insanely loyal, hot and head over heels. They make a really great TV couple. They are by far the best thing on the show this season by a mile!
Enzo is at least White passing for the most part and haven't seen anyone mention MM being a MOC until recently. But, he's white passing enough for some DE fans to call him white. The OP has been mostly calling Enzo a MOC to guilt trip and accuse Bamon/Damon fans or being racist or preferring Damon over Enzo and trying to use Enzo being a MOC to say that anyone who points out Enzo's flaws or wrong doings are "condemning" MOC.
Trying to use that over Damon/Bamon fans for her debates, even though she will accuse others of playing the "race card" if Bonnie's race is brought into a debate about JP's writing, she wants to bring up Enzo's to try and gain the upper hand in the debates about Damon vs Enzo and which character people prefers. Mostly used to bash and accuse people who don't like Enzo/BE being racist or having racism issues inside of themselves.
Because while the OP wants to bash Damon plenty of times, she don't want Enzo bash or his flaws/wrong doings mentioned. (And if Enzo is proven to be white then it would make all of the accusations of people preferring Damon over Enzo because Damon is white pointless, if both characters are white). Then their race couldn't be brought up and it would just come down to who fans favor/prefer and how that impacts which characters wrong doings they are willing to overlook and get past vs which ones they are going to bash on and focus on more because they don't like that character or are a Anti fan of that character.
There are white Arabs. So just b/c his mom is of Arab descent doesn't make him any less white. He's still a white guy at the end of the day.
shareFact is that unless someone really took the time and the care to look into MM"s background that him being white passing, at least would still give him an advantage over Brown/African American/Black actors that look more like POC with their skin color. So the debate can be that some are suddenly against MM/Enzo because he is a MOC and still there are some that assume that he is white.
His appearance in some cases still gives him an advantage and would over Kat/Bonnie in the industry, even tho the OP dismisses debates that Bonnie/Kat can still face problems because of the color or her skin, while trying to highlight how Enzo/MM faces race issues. And MM's appearance could still gain him an advantage over actors of darker skin color.
So MM still can have the advantages of white actors a lot more so than other actors that are POC, because only people who follow and are a fan of MM that closely may even know about his family background.
If it can be acknowledged that part of him is MOC, it should honestly be acknowledged that his appearance gives him an advantage over actors of darker skin color and therefore the same advantages that a pure white actor will get. The OP uses MM's background to try to say that Bamon fans prefer Damon because Damon is white, but how many people in the TVD fandom honestly know about MM"s background? Enzo can still have some of the same advantages that Damon would because some assume that Enzo is as white as Damon is.
Ian Somerhalder's family heritage on his Mothers side is said to have Chocktaw native American roots. Does that make him a MoC?
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Never argue with stupid people,they will drag you down to their level then beat you with experience.
There's not any logic to that argument. Either way you look at it, Bonnie with Enzo or Damon, she's in a bi-racial relationship, so what's the difference if she was in a bi-racial relationship with a white, asian, middle eastern etc guy? If you are so invested in Bonnie to be posting about your love of her character, the way she's treated, and who you want her to be with then I am going to automatically give you the benefit of the doubt that you aren't a racist, no matter who you want her to be with.
Honestly, it all comes down to personal taste, whether you want her with Damon or Enzo and there are plenty of reasons to like or dislike her with either of them without resorting to try to change an man's race to make a point.
If you are so invested in Bonnie to be posting about your love of her character, the way she's treated, and who you want her to be with then I am going to automatically give you the benefit of the doubt that you aren't a racist, no matter who you want her to be with.
All I said was that I was going to give someone the benefit of the doubt. Not everyone proves they aren't racist, but I still believe they deserve the benefit of the doubt.
I don't think it's as simple as that. I think one can be invested in a fictional WOC and still display some rather racist attitudes towards the race/ethnicity of the love interest one prefers her with. e.g. this attitude that finds everything Damon does forgivable or the "fault of the writers" but is eager to believe the worst of Enzo (e.g. imagining that humanity-off Enzo was going to violently or emotionally hurt Bonnie before the episode even aired) is a reflection of media's racist portrayals of criminals of different races/ethnicities: Black men - even Black victims - are thugs, Arabs are terrorists while White men are mentally ill, isolated cases, victims of circumstances and inadequate mental help from society? etc.
Elena's interest in medicine than in Bonnie's…. well, whatever it is that Bonnie is interested in when she's not being a plot device. (See what I did there?).
All I said was that I was going to give someone the benefit of the doubt. Not everyone proves they aren't racist, but I still believe they deserve the benefit of the doubt.
If you want to talk about Bonnie's character, I don't think you could say that any of these issues are racist on their own, because there are a lot of mitigating factors for each one. BUT, if you look at them overall I can see why some people might say that. I don't think any of it is intentional in anyway on the part of Plec or the writers, but that doesn't mean it doesn't exist just because it's not intentional.
Thank you, I totally agree that race has no place in this show. If discrimination was a topic than it would center around werewolves, vampires , and witches. Those (ethnic)? Species are targeted.
We're all on our way out, act accordingly.
By that same logic, Someone could take the time to look up Ian's bloodline/family tree, Find somewhere, where he or someone closely related to him as a relative that is POC or a POC descendant and apply that to Damon and say that the OP of this thread or anyone who is Anti Damon or dislikes Damon and calls out his wrong doings must be racist in someway. Even though both Ian/Damon is considered white, but because of finding out that Ian has POC some where in his bloodline that Damon haters can now be accused of being racist in some way.
Same logic that is used in suddenly finding out about MM's family background. Still comes down to what characters that people prefer. Damon fans being more forgiving of Damon's wrong doings/flaws is mentioned, because Damon fans prefer Damon.
But, that applies to the whole TVD fandom. Damon fans may be more bothered and upset by the other male characters. But, so are Stefan fans more bothered and upset by Damon, while being more forgiving of Stefan's flaws. Or Kai fans being more forgiving of Kai's flaws. Out of all of the male characters whoever is a fan of their fave, they are going to be more forgiving and show more empathy towards whichever male character that they are a fan
of. That's the case with all of the male characters on TVD/TO.
Damon's wrong doings getting him bashed more, while Kai's being the villain will be explained for why Damon's actions are worse than Kai's etc...
The focus is on how Damon fans react and how Damon fans react are singled out in this thread. But, then it goes both ways and fans of Enzo have focused on what Damon has done wrong in Season 7 towards Bonnie or what Damon has done wrong overall in Season 7. And get bothered and upset by what Damon has done wrong in Season 7 towards Bonnie. Yet have their reasons for why they are more forgiving and can get past the things that Enzo has down harmful/hurtful towards Bonnie and everyone else.
Just don't get those acting like Enzo fans are different from fans of all of the other male characters in TVD and how their preference will impact how they are willing to overlook their faves flaws over the other characters.
I personally always wanted Bonnie to end up with a Black guy.
Everyone else on the show got to date within their race, but the one Black female never dates a Black guy, only White? I'm not saying it never happens, but it's extremely rare. Most Black women are more attracted to Black men. So I found it odd that they never gave Bonnie a Black boyfriend. Oh yeah, she's flirted with a couple of throwaway Black male characters, but never a relationship.
It's also quite telling that most of the semi-regular Black male characters that have been on this show were villains (Luka and his dad, Jesse after he turned, Cade). It's shady as hell, and really makes me question my sanity for continuing to watch a show that basically dogs me out as a Black male.
It's a real shame, too. I mean, this show is run by a fat White woman, so the lack of Black male characters is just puzzling.
Don't be thinking about me when I'm gone.
I wasn't thinking about you when you were here.
Malarkey's mother is Arab. And while I know that officially, Arabs identify as White, let's be pragmatic here. When it comes to race (and ethnicity, as you clearly explained), what really drives these divisions between the species? It's privilege. Do White Arabs enjoy what we call "White privilege"? Does Trevino, as a White Hispanic enjoy the privilege of his other White cast mates? Race is an artificial construct and ethnicity is fluid: Technically Malarkey is Arab and European; Graham is West-African and European. I believe, even McQueen had a Filipino grand-mother. Yet Graham is "Black", Malarkey is "White-passing" and McQueen is "White".
And anyway, this entire discussion about Enzo's race started because the same posters who cried "Racism!" at Plec for killing off Tyler a "Moc", could not understand why it was problematic and hypocritical to eagerly advocate for Enzo's own demise, condemning him for half the same crimes that Damon has been pardoned for. It might not have anything at all to do with race - as I believe you mentioned already, about basically having preferences, etc. But unfortunately, racism is rarely black or white, o intentional, or even deliberate. Racism can be subconscious, or self-directed, or just unaware. Do I know for certain that this poster is being racist? Of course not. But I do think the irony is worth pointing out (complaining about one man's death while wishing for the other, all the while assuming that the Problematic White Fave is the best of the lot) - and worth examining.
It does have something to do with it, if people don't know about MM's background, until fans of MM's/Enzo's just bring it up when trying to win and gain advantage over a debate, because they prefer Enzo over Damon and don't like Enzo's flaws/wrong doings being mentioned and prefer to ship Bonenzo and don't like or want Bonenzo's problematic ways to be brought up, while wanting to focus on Damon;s.
Therefore trying to make Enzo be untouched and off limits to any criticisms that his character would receive for his abusive/violent behaviors, while being able to focus on the other male characters abusive/violent behavior for why they prefer Enzo over Damon and the rest. Still comes down to how you see Enzo fans focus more on what Damon does wrong, while making excuses and whitewashing Enzo's actions and being more forgivable of Enzo's wrong doings over the others. Because ENzo is preferred and they are really no different from fans of the other male characters being more forgiving towards their fave.
Enzo is still white to many in the fandom, some even use him being white or white passing to try and win the debate about JP not being racist by saying that if Jeremy/Enzo is white then JP can't be racist because she paired Bonnie with them.
Still accuising people of being racist or having "internal" racism when not everyone who doesn't even follow MM closely was aware of his background and he show never went out of their way to show or highlight Enzo as a MOC. So, it still comes down to how many see both Damon and Enzo as white and prefers one over the other.
MM/Enzo still can face an overall advantage in the industry with fans/producers/writers for being white passing, over an actor with darker skin color, especially when people who wouldn't care to look into his background, but with fans who judge actors on their skin color and would be more likely to dismiss actors of darker skin color due to racism.
Racism like that if people honestly don't know about the actors background, you can't hold that against them. Like saying that suddenly if no one knew about Ian's background and somewhere in his family tree he had POC in it that it must make people who hate Damon racist or those who call for Damon to die racist. And people have called for Damon to die, just like some have said for Enzo to die. If many knew about Enzo's race or MM"s background or cared enough to know just before he was paired with Bonnie then it would have been in heavier discussion before this season, if it was that major of a factor.
The most problematic thing is still those calling for Bonnie to die, who still faces more harsher judgment over Enzo, as well as Kat facing a more difficult time over what MM would face.
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Slightly OT: Now this has happened more than once so I feel justified in pointing it out. I can't be the only one who finds it a cross between pathetic and alarming when posters who've been publicly blocked still reply to my posts? I suppose there might be a compliment buried in there somewhere - the obsessive impulse to follow my posts and opinions... But knowing that I see nothing of their responses than two lines of grey italics... mostly, it just strikes me as scary and sad. Like all they have left of this show are these vitriolic 'debates' so they cling to them even if it means you're figuratively talking to a wall.
share[deleted]
Well all that and hoping it they show up often enough, you'll be tempted to unblock and respond. Getting blocked is the ultimate 'fork you' here so... Lol.
shareWhen it comes to race (and ethnicity, as you clearly explained), what really drives these divisions between the species? It's privilege. Do White Arabs enjoy what we call "White privilege"?
so it's amusing how suddenly, the same sympathy that was extended to Tyler suddenly no longer applies to Enzo, another character who's also got the short shrift from the writers/producers.
There's a need for White Male validation of a black woman's worth (her beauty, her right to life and love, etc) that is actually kind of sad, horrifying when you look into it too deep.
There's a desperate need to see Bonnie not just be picked by a white man, but picked by a white man over a white woman in these fans and as long as they don't get that, they're always going to have something to complain about.
I've made the point several times in the past that it's hard to take Bamon shippers seriously when they complain about racism/social justice issues on this show when it always seems so selective.
Be that as it may, has any girl on this show been any man's first choice?
I don't care about MM's ethnicity, it's a mute point to me, I do think Enzo will prob die soon and he is not fully free from Sybil.
Although, I think they will prob all die this season and go to Cade's hell.
How they find peace, the recurring theme, is a mystery but I'm assuming Bonster and the line of Bennett witches will of course play the major part in that.
I think Elena will have something to do with this also.
MM has been a pleasant addition to the show, like him for Bonnie, good scenes, only wish they had done their love story sooner, like someone else posted, that whole Lily love story was a big fat mess. I understand it was meant to emphasize his loneliness and need to be a part of something but Lily wasn't the way to do that.
We're all on our way out, act accordingly.
First off, both Tyler and Enzo are white. They might have different ethnicities from German or French, but they are still white. Even if you want to change Malarkey's race to prove some kind of point (a very offensive and distasteful thing to do, I might add), both Enzo and Damon are supposed to be white Italians. So the characters are both white. That's the end of that story.
Second off, why are you worried or bothered by people who have nothing deeper to say than Enzo is a waste of space? They obviously have nothing substantial to add to the conversation, so they are resorting to name calling.
Third off, you are seriously changing a man's race to prove a point of who are the best fans and who is the best couple for a TV SHOW! This is crazy!
And just for the record, Damon isn't getting with Bonnie. We all know this. Linking her to Elena put a nail in that coffin. Would him sitting around for her to die so he can get his "replacement girlfriend" be romantic to anyone? I'm not shocked they killed Enzo because the writers don't want anyone to be happy, not just Bonnie. You guys seem to forget that Caroline threw her ring back at Stefan literally 2 episodes ago. She's not going to get a happy ending because even with his humanity Stefan is going to be too messed up to be with Caroline. Unless there's a 2nd dose of the cure in Elena or Damon kills Stefan to get the cure he's not getting his happy ending either. I seriously doubt that too many characters are going to get happy endings.
I have no clue why you're making this a race thing and I'm once again reeling from how terrible the Vampire Diaries fandom is... but:
I was a Bamon fan up until Julie Plec in her infinite racism made it clear that would never happen and Benzo started becoming amazing so I'm happy with them.
Now with Enzo randomly dying for no real reason I don't know what to think other than Julie Plec isn't satisfied unless Bonnie fans are unhappy.
And I don't think anyone thought Enzo was black up until he randomly became half black because Julie Plec wanted to make her feeling son interracial relationships clear.
Not sure why it's such a big deal if people like Bonnie and Damon together. He changed for her. He stopped murdering and being horrible for her while Elena turned a blind eye to it the entire time she was with him.
What weirds me out is how obsessed this "fandom" is with hating on Bamon fans. If you don't like Bamon don't talk about it. How hard is that? Delena is the most toxic relationship I've ever seen on tv and I don't feel inclined to start threads about them or go into discussions about them.
Well the show has been casting non-White actresses as part of the St John family so they're clearly emphasising his ethnicity.
shareYeah which only happened after he was paired with Bonnie because it was important for Plec to make it clear that Bonnie would never be chosen by a white man.
Personally I don't need for Bonnie to be chosen by a white man but Plec seems to have a serious problem with it and went out of her way to go against it.
Considering Bonnie's relationship with Damon is cannon it's really weird she didn't give them a meaningful fling that ended with them becoming very close friends. How hard would that have been? All these fan wars never would've happened and the ratings would probably still be high because the show would be about more than who Damon is paired with.
It's ridiculous to blame fans when Plec is the real problem hence the ratings being in the toilet and the show that put the CW on the map being cancelled with a crappy ending in sight.