Damon burnt Elena's casket...
... where were all the complaints about him violating her bodily autonomy then?
shareHe didn't. It was an hallucination
shareLmao exactly
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MovieChat Forums > The Vampire Diaries (2009) Discussion > Damon burnt Elena's casket...
Crickets.... Because it wasn't REAL
We're all on our way out, act accordingly.
And so? Damon threatened Tyler to bring out the casket to "See his girl". If Tyler hadn't the presence of mind to bring out an empty casket, Damon would have burnt Elena to death.
shareExcept he didn't. Nice try though.
Which would be worse - to live as a monster, or to die as a good man?
And your point is...? Bonnie didn't give the Cure to Enzo but that hasn't stopped her haters from crucifying her for considering it. Damon didn't burn Elena but he forced Tyler to take him to her knowing he was hallucinating and mentally impaired.
Try backing that up with actual logic and a modicum of intelligence. Not too much, though. You don't want to sprain something.
I'm all for bashing Damon, but I don't think this really counts. I don't buy the argument that no one's allowed to touch a hair on Elena's body because #consent but Damon was hallucinating the event, and it wasn't even Elena, and he thought he was burning that friend of his. Damon would never intentionally hurt/kill Elena imo.
My issue with Damon is that everything he does is FOR Elena, to the extent that he doesn't have any other priorities or any other motivation. And to the point where her own opinions don't matter; he just does what he wants to keep her alive. He's barely a person, he's just a reaction to Elena.
A rose is just a rose.
He's barely a person, he's just a reaction to Elena.
You have summed up my major problem with this show (and its fandom, honestly) in one sentence. Despite the fact that Ian is attractive, and that he is initially a quintessential bad boy, I simply cannot find him appealing or a compelling character for this reason. He doesn't have a personality outside of Elena (or Katherine). There is nothing attractive about a man whose life literally revolves around a woman.
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There is nothing attractive about a man whose life literally revolves around a woman.Same goes for a woman's whose life revolves around a man. Codependent relationships are toxic.
But Damon and Elena put their future on hold for Bonnie. It's normal that he's living with the hope to have that future with her soon. share
Same goes for a woman's whose life revolves around a man. Codependent relationships are toxic.
Yep. I don't think Elena quite reached that point, though. I personally didnt like that Bonnie did what she did, but not because it impacted Damon, just Elena. share
I think Elena reached that point in 6x01, of course that changed after 6x02.
shareDamon and Elena's future was put on hold because of Kai, not because of Bonnie. Without the cure, they can still have a future together. The only difference is that Damon's future would last beyond his time with Elena. Which is how the show started out anyways.
And Elena's life didn't start revolving around men until season 4ish when she started dating Damon and became a shell of who she was in s1.
But Damon is much more to blame for being the toxic one because he literally cannot survive without a woman to pine for and moan about. It used to be Katherine and now it's Elena.
What he said to Cade in the last episode is the exact reason for why I hate Damon so much. "I'm on the redemption jag. See, there's this girl I'm trying to impress. So I'm trying not to kill anyone, ever again."
^ that to me sums up exactly why he's such a useless and pathetic character. He exists solely to make Elena happy. He isn't even on the path to redemption for himself; does he even care about redeeming himself? What if Elena were to never wake up? Would he give a sh-t then? Probably not. Because he's nothing without her. He derives his motivations solely based on pleasing her or acting out because he thinks she'll never forgive him. Those are the only two sides of Damon there are and they're both directed related to Elena.
A rose is just a rose.
I think his purpose used to be 'villain'. He was there to muck things up, act irrationally and recklessly and then have some sexual chemistry, minor flirtations with our main lead. But his purpose was clearly different from Elena's and when the show began the mesh the two and wash away their very obvious mismatched values, Damon became personality-less. He's just Elena's b-tch now.
A rose is just a rose.
There is nothing attractive about a man whose life literally revolves around a woman.
Couldnt have said it better.
------You is KIND, you is SMART, you is IMPORTANT ----- share
Well he took a risk to see Elena while he was having repeated hallucinations from his stint in Phoenix prison. He knew he was unstable, but he still arm-twisted Tyler to bringing Elena to him. Then when he (thinks he) burns Elena, his reaction is to join a fight club and sleep around.
If Tyler hadn't the presence of mind to switch caskets, Elena would be dead, regardless of what Damon intended.
And that's why I find that whole scenario far more problematic than anything Bonnie did in this episode --- yet the same people who are throwing arguments about Elena's autonomy, and the sanctity of her personhood and the sacredness of her happy future --- didn't have an issue with the way all three of these were violated in this episode.
My issue with Damon is that everything he does is FOR Elena, to the extent that he doesn't have any other priorities or any other motivation.
I think that Damon says that everything he does is for Elena... but in reality, he doesn't really. He still does exactly what he wants (Whitmore massacre), he repeatedly fails to live up to her (Tyler's murder) --- and even though he says things like "I don't want Elena to not forgive me", the audience has been shown repeatedly that she will.
I think a better argument can be made that Elena's character was sanded down to fit Damon's. Her entire identity has been flattened to "Damon's girl" - his trophy. share
I think a better argument can be made that Elena's character was sanded down to fit Damon's. Her entire identity has been flattened to "Damon's girl" - his trophy.
I agree with you that Elena is nothing but a prize, a mcguffin, a plot device,or whatever you want to call her. But she's in position simply because she's no longer on the show. If she were still on the show her character obviously won't be treated that way so it's a bit of a moot point.
I think that Damon says that everything he does is for Elena... but in reality, he doesn't really. He still does exactly what he wants (Whitmore massacre), he repeatedly fails to live up to her (Tyler's murder) --- and even though he says things like "I don't want Elena to not forgive me", the audience has been shown repeatedly that she will.
I've got to disagree here, simply because as you said in the 1st paragraph about him burning her casket and when he killed Tyler, he wasn't in his right mind. Also, what he did killing the Whitmores, this was at the very very beginning of their relationship and when Elena found out about it Damon DUMPED HER because he didn't feel like he could live up to her "standards" because of his actions. A very stupid move on his part, but that's a discussion for another day. But since the Whitmores, except when under mind control or after his mind was warped from the Phoenix stone, he's done a good job of living up to her expectations. Elena told him to "have fun" which I took to mean he was free to sleep around. So the sex, what little there's been was done with her approval and it's been so long since he got any, I honestly don't remember to circumstances, but I think he was still mind warped by the stone at the time.
And that's why I find that whole scenario far more problematic than anything Bonnie did in this episode --- yet the same people who are throwing arguments about Elena's autonomy, and the sanctity of her personhood and the sacredness of her happy future --- didn't have an issue with the way all three of these were violated in this episode.
I agree with this. Bonnie has literally died for Elena. She wasn't in the wrong, and if she was in the wrong, it's such a small infraction compared to how these characters have treated each other that it's a waste of time talking about. Bonnie even admitted she wanted to put herself first, and she could do that without harming Damon or Elena. Once Bonnie dies, Elena wakes up, Enzo gets the cure sucked out of him and Damon gets to be human and everybody's happy. For Bonnie to not try for a human life with Enzo because Elena wasn't awake to give consent is ridiculous. Elena isn't going to wake up until Bonnie is dead and that point it would be many years too late. And if you want to go the rout that Elana should give consent, then shouldn't she have to give consent to be moved all over the east coast like she's a piece on a chessboard? Elena has no autonomy because they can't ask her. Even if Bonnie could ask her with the mind melt thing, which obviously can't happen because Nina is gone, but if it did happen, Elena would obviously have said yes because there is no way Elena wouldn't have been ok with Bonnie's plan. share