The only reason Elena got The Cure is Bonnie.... - The Vampire Diaries (2009) Discussion

[–] tmrhgrvs 8 years ago

The Cade plan, on the other hand, was utterly stupid because who even knew if it would work on the devil - especially when there's absolutely no preceding show logic to support that a spell designed for vampires would suddenly work for all and sundry immortals. So essentially it's a goddamn waste of the cure. And would've led to not just Delena's futures being ruined but everyone else's as well because Cade would likely survive and tear the world up anyway. They're better off with Super!Bonnie now coming back to take on Cade than any of the useless plans Caroline and Damon were coming up with.

The cure is intended for all those turned by the immortality spell ( Silas) or a variation of it (Vampires). It doesn't affect people like the Sirens who only seemed immortal because Cade kept resurrecting them, or Dahlia who was immortal under the condition that she could only be awake 1 year a century. And it definitely shouldnt effect Cade who isn't immortal at all, he's just a Psychic who was dead and ruling Hell for the last 4000 years and can come back whenever he wants.

But 100% agree with everything else on this post.

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[–] imaneassi 8 years ago

Well you're the one who didn't get a thing. The cure wasn't for Elena.Once Elena turned human,it didn't matter who would suck it out of her. Elena was already human and cure or no cure she's gonna age normally. She was barely 20 when she was put to sleep.5 years later she would be barely 25.What keeps her body from aging is the spell that Kai put on her. He promised that her body won't age while Bonnie lives the next 60 years.But if in the meanwhile someone else killed Enzo and Damon wasn't there to have the cure, where is his future with Elena? Elena's cure was meant for Delena's future, Bonnie moved the coffin and had thrown a spell on it so that no one can take the cure or hurt Elena, only to be the one to do it, backstabbing her best friends, despite of their sacrifice for her putting their future on hold so she can have a happy life.

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[–] awesomebamon 8 years ago

The putting their future on hold so that she can live a happy life thing. Not Bonnie's fault that Kai linked her life to Elena's. So why should Bonnie be punished for that? After all that Bonnie has put on the line and sacrificed to save Elena before, it's not some grand gesture for them to ask Bonnie not to lay down and die and give up her right to live so that Elena can wake up.

Letting Bonnie live is the decent thing to do and both Elena/Damon would be selfish to expect Bonnie to cut off her life for them just so that they can play house. They are alive because of Bonnie and Bonnie has done many things for Elena. Protected Elena's life. But, all that matters to some is Delena and they are upset for a ship.

There would be no cure option if Bonnie didn't bring it back and offer it to Damon in the first place. And something that keeps being ignored by Delena fans is Damon asking Bonnie to take the cure out of Elena.

Delena Stans always expect Bonnie to have this blind, loyalty to Elena, like her entire life is meant to live putting Elena's needs and feelings before hers always.

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[–] imaneassi 8 years ago

I'm not a Delena fan but Elena and Damon are her best friends and she just backstabbed them.

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[–] awesomebamon 8 years ago

Elena is still alive because of Bonnie. Stefan was coming to kill her and was going to kill Bonnie as well and injected the cure into him to stop him. If Bonnie never took the cure out of Elena, Elena would be dead by Stefan anyway and no future for Delena.

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[–] Darrylmurphy 8 years ago

But only because Bonnie was their to abuse her best friends prone body, the reason Elena is alive is because bonnie was going to betray her and Damon's trust, admittedly the only reason Bonnie had to inject Stefan and why Enzo is dead is because Damon's retarded and didn't think to phone Bonnie and warn her.

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[–] camelotfalls 8 years ago

Lol, what? Do you really think it'd be that hard to find a witch to make sure Enzo's blood would be preserved so Damon could drink it? Either way, backstabbing would be Bonnie taking that blood and throwing it in a fire out of spite. This is not 'backstabbing'. I'm not sure what the relevance of your banging on about Elena's ageing is, we all know she stays preserved as that was one of the finer points of the spell Kai cast on her.

Bonnie moving that coffin ended up saving Elena's life????? If it had still been in the same space, the sirens or Stefan or some passing random would've gotten rid of it (since even in death, everyone is still gunning for Elena).

I'm not sure why you would be so against a scenario where EVERYONE gets a 'happy life'. Bonnie and Enzo in the present; Elena and Damon in the future. There's literally no logical reason to be so against this, and to even think that Elena - the character - would be against it. Unless you despise Bonnie THAT much, and really, I can't help you with that. Maybe you and Julie Plec should have a drink some time to share your great hatred for the character.

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[–] imaneassi 8 years ago

I have no problem with Bonnie being happy. My problem was her risking her best friends fututre to be "happier". That's it

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[–] orgine 8 years ago

So by your logic, Bonnie trying to get the same HEA for a few decades before Delena gets their own was her trying to be "happier"?

In other words, as long as Bonnie gets to be happy - just not as happy - as Damon/Elena - good. The moment she tries to be "Greedy" enough to be as happy - bad?

Gotcha.

You do know, right, that the only reason why Delena have the Cure in the first place is entirely because of Bonnie?

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[–] lindsay-kneece 8 years ago

You do know, right, that the only reason why Delena have the Cure in the first place is entirely because of Bonnie?

It doesn't mean she can just take it without even saying anything to Damon though.

My biggest problem was her extracting it out of Elena while she slept. It's just gross writing. The cure is in Elena's body now so it belongs to her just like anything else in a woman's body. Elena gave Damon permission to have it when she woke. No one else. I want Bonnie to happy but not at her friends expense.

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[–] camelotfalls 8 years ago

I hope you would be as fussy about Caroline extracting that cure from her corpse to fulfill this stupid Cade plan she cooked up with Damon as you appear to be about this. It's not like Bonnie can wake Elena up to ask nicely. It's hardly comparable to any kind of violent assault - at most, it's a little weird, which Bonnie verbally acknowledged. It's not like she was gleefully knocking Elena's body about and treating her body in an undignified manner.

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[–] lindsay-kneece 8 years ago

First of all, Elena isn't a corpse. Secondly, I don't like anyone taking the cure from Elena while she sleeps but I accept that plan more than Bonnie's bc if Elena wakes up and Cade has killed them all then it will be pointless anyway. Just bc Bonnie didn't treat Elena's body badly I'm supposed to be grateful? Listen, if the tables were turned and Elena was taking the cure from Bonnie so she and Damon could get their happily ever after instead of she and Enzo this board would be ablaze with angry posts.

It's not like Bonnie can wake Elena up to ask nicely.

Actually she couldve asked her. Everyone of them entered her mind in 6X22.. The writers could've alluded to Bonnie asking her but they chose not to.

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[–] 8 years ago

[deleted]

[–] awesomebamon 8 years ago

Still ignoring Damon saying take the cure from Elena while she was sleeping and how it was Caroline's idea. Ignoring Damon's part and knowledge just like Delena Stans did when they blame Bonnie for Elena's coma and ignoring that it was Damon's idea to lock Kai in 1903. Just ignoring others part in the plan or situation to solely blame and hate on Bonnie.

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[–] lindsay-kneece 8 years ago

I'm not ignoring anything. If you don't see the difference in what Bonnie was doing vs what Damon/Caroline were planning to do than I don't know what to say. She also planned to take that cure without any thought to Damon. He had to convince her to be the bigger person and and give up the cure, that was his to take, and use it against Cade so that the'd all survive.

I don't like anyone taking the cure from Elena while she sleeps but if they're all dead when she wakes up it won't really matter. Like i said, this is gross writing. It's along the same lines with forcing Caroline to be pregnant.

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[–] awesomebamon 8 years ago

What's the difference? The whole idea is about Bonnie taking the cure from Elena "Without her permission" and Caroline and Damon didn't have permission to take it for the purpose of stopping someone evil. As ya'll keep harping on the cure was meant for Delena's future and using it on Cade is not that. Using it on Cade has the same impact as it would if Bonnie used it for Enzo and that's Delena's future being in trouble.

We can go through all of the selfish decisions that Damon and Elena has made to be together that has gotten people hurt? Or how they got together without any thought to others. And it's not as bad as forcing Caroline to be pregnant. There would be no cure without Bonnie and she was the one who had to work to get it back.

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[–] orgine 8 years ago

He had to convince her to be the bigger person and and give up the cure, that was his to take, and use it against Cade so that the'd all survive.

The Cure was not Damon's to take. Bonnie owned the Cure, three times over, and the only claim Elena has to it, is because it's in her body. Damon has zero claim to the Cure and Bonnie didn't need his permission to take it.

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[–] orgine 8 years ago

My biggest problem was her extracting it out of Elena while she slept. It's just gross writing. The cure is in Elena's body now so it belongs to her just like anything else in a woman's body.

Elena is Bonnie's "sister" - or at least that's what the show has been saying for the past 6 years and justified every gross abuse Bonnie has undergone to preserve Elena's life and happiness.

So I think we've seen enough of these people to know that Bonnie taking the cure out of Elena - that Elena won't have without her - and that does no harm whatsoever to Elena - is by no means a violation.

In a real-life analogy, organ donors give up their body parts while they're unconscious all the time. (Would be pretty hard to do if they weren't!)

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[–] lindsay-kneece 8 years ago

Elena is Bonnie's "sister" - or at least that's what the show has been saying for the past 6 years and justified every gross abuse Bonnie has undergone to preserve Elena's life and happiness.

Except Elena has never done anything that would purposely impact Bonnie's life in a negative way. She's always had Bonnie's well-being at the forefront of her mind and I'm sure no one can come up with a scenario where that's false.
Also, this does harm Elena bc now Damon can't take the cure. They can't live the human life they planned. Also, 8x11's writer alluded to it changing the details of the sleeping beauty curse. So it's possible we're about to find out that Elena will be aging like normal while she sleeps. He said "Kai never took into account that anyone would take the cure from Elena". So, if thats the case she's double screwed.

In a real-life analogy, organ donors give up their body parts while they're unconscious all the time. (Would be pretty hard to do if they weren't!)

Organ donors give up their body parts bc they've signed paperwork giving permission not just bc they're incapacitated.

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[–] orgine 8 years ago

Except Elena has never done anything that would purposely impact Bonnie's life in a negative way. She's always had Bonnie's well-being at the forefront of her mind and I'm sure no one can come up with a scenario where that's false.

Season 1: Elena asked Bonnie & Sheila to save Stefan when he went into the cave. The spell proved too much and Sheila died from it.
Season 3: Elena went on a walk with Elijah Mikaelson when she knew that Esther was planning on murdering him. It resulted in him discovering the truth and Abby Bennett ended up being turned into a vampire.
Season 4: Elena turned into a vampire, asked Bonnie to fix it. Bonnie died.
Season 4: Elena needed the Cure. Bonnie went crazy from Expression, ended up dying to bring Jeremy back to life.
Season 5: Silas, who had been released in the quest for the Cure for Elena, murdered Bonnie's dad. Bonnie became the Anchor and suffered debilitating pain through out. Elena deliberately and unnecessarily killed herself and passed through Bonnie, causing her even more debilitating pain. Bonnie died again and the only person Elena mourned (on camera) was Damon.
Season 6: Elena went to 1994 to "rescue" Bonnie. She bitched about Damon stealing the Ascendant that they needed to break Bonnie free. And spent the time making pancakes and reminiscing when she should have been driving half-way across the country to save Bonnie. Guess what happened?

6 seasons, 6 clear instances where Elena's choices, Elena's wishes, Elena's demands had directly impacted Bonnie's life in horrendous ways.

You obviously haven't been watching the show if you can make that statement with a straight face.

Also, this does harm Elena bc now Damon can't take the cure. They can't live the human life they planned.

First, Damon can take the Cure when Enzo grows old and Bonnie dies. If he waits for Enzo to be close to death, he can take the Cure, and still live a human life with Elena.

Second, Elena and Damon don't have a right to a human life and even though the show's been selling this for 8 years, it's not Bonnie's job to fulfil every whim of Elena's. Bonnie and Enzo have as much right to a human life as Damon and Elena.

Also, 8x11's writer alluded to it changing the details of the sleeping beauty curse. So it's possible we're about to find out that Elena will be aging like normal while she sleeps. He said "Kai never took into account that anyone would take the cure from Elena". So, if thats the case she's double screwed.

I thought it simply meant she'd catch up in age to when she was when the Sleeping spell was placed on her (20 years or so)? And even if it didn't, that's not Bonnie's fault. She's not responsible for Kai's curse back-firing when all she was told about the Curse was that it tied Elena's life to hers (Bonnie's), not to a Cure that Kai didn't even know Elena had ingested until about a few minutes before he placed the curse on her.

Organ donors give up their body parts bc they've signed paperwork giving permission not just bc they're incapacitated.

Elena's final wish was for Bonnie to live a happy, fulfilled life. It goes without saying that she would do everything in her power to support that, including giving up the Cure that she got from Bonnie in the first place. As I said, Damon will still get a shot at the Cure after Bonnie and Enzo died. Everybody wins. The scenario you're presenting is one where Bonnie loses out her own happiness for Elena's sake.

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[–] forksforrests 8 years ago

Second, Elena and Damon don't have a right to a human life and even though the show's been selling this for 8 years, it's not Bonnie's job to fulfil every whim of Elena's. Bonnie and Enzo have as much right to a human life as Damon and Elena.

Oh my god, thank you. This is what I've been trying to get at, in a much less concise way. I feel like this point needs to be hammered into all these delusional DE fans, because it just seems like common sense to me and yet it's something I'm having to repeat over and over again.

Also, not only do Elena/Damon not have a right to human life (they've frankly surpassed that by cheating death multiple times), they also don't have the right to living a life together at the expense of their friends' happiness. The things Bonnie and Stefan have had to do for Elena, Damon, & Delena go above and beyond friend/family duty and people act like D/E are owed it, but they aren't and neither is their relationship owed these numerous sacrifices.

A rose is just a rose.

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[–] imaneassi 8 years ago

Season 1: Both of them should have told her they don’t have enough power for it, She wouldfn’t have forced them into anything. In fact had she known that they weren’t powerful enough, she wouldn’t have asked

Season 3; Elena went on a walk for Elijah for a purpose. Not Elena’s fault that Esther’s plan failed

Season 3: Elena died in the last episode. So no she didn’t ask anything from Bonnie

Season 4; Elena didn’t ask anything from Bonnie. They found out there was a cure, they all were interested in it, they went looking for it not just for her.And when she found out there was only one dose, she didn’t want it anymore, knowing that everyone else wanted it.Bonnie trying to bring Jeremy to life was as much for herself than for Elena.

Season 5. Blaming Elena for Silas’s actions?Why don’t you blame her for daring to breath while you’re at it.Elena killed herself to protect her loved ones and for you it’s unnecessary. When Bonnie sacrifices” it’s so precious, Elena does it’s “unecessary’ get over yourself.We sawElena mourn Bonnie in the premiere of s6 so try again.

Season 6 Elena did try to save Bonnie who wanted to commit suicide.Only in your head she didn’t care. Bonnie didn’t die in s6.

No. Bonnie was already happy. She didn't need to risk her best friend's future to be "happier"

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[–] jordanjanellejoy 8 years ago

And I never said that Elena has ever asked for anything that Bonnie has done, I pointed out what Bonnie went through every single season.

Did you actually read my post? I'm not a fan of Bonnie's who blames all of her woes on Elena.

Season one, it was about saving Stefan. Stefan was saved.

Season 3, I never mentioned the walk Elena went on, and regardless that wasn't the only thing Bonnie suffered through that season. Remember when Bonnie was mia, still a target yet the only missing person they were concerned for was Damon?

Season 4, no Elena never asked for anything, but I'll give you a guess at what the response would've been had Bonnie never helped them. And Bonnie decided to bring Jeremy back when she witnessed their reunion and realized how lost Elena was without him, she did it specifically for Elena.

When did I blame Elena for Silas' actions?

When did I say that Elena never mourned Bonnie? What I mentioned layed out every single character reaction, or nonreaction, to whatever Bonnie went through, this isn't only related to Elena. It's about them ALL.

I'm not the one that needs to get "over themselves" it's you. I'm not the one making every single sacrifice Bonnie has made about Elena, it's you. Some of these instances have nothing to do with Elena, yet you route it back to Elena. Bonnie still sacrificed and persevered on her own. You conveniently ignored the multiple instances where Bonnie was placed in a horrid situation that had nothing to do with Elena. And there were a lot of them, and almost always she's had no support.

My ass may be dumb, but I ain't no dumbass...

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[–] imaneassi 8 years ago

Maybe you should read your previous post again, because up to you Bonnie is entutled to make decisions about Elena's life and Body because of the so called sacrifices she made.Dead wrong.

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[–] orgine 8 years ago

because of the so called sacrifices she made

That's your gross Bonnie-hate showing.

This thread started because one of you DE-ers claimed that it was a violation to extract the Cure from Elena's sleeping body and I countered that the show has spent 6 seasons building up to Bonnie and Elena being soul-sisters who will die for each other if they want to, so Elena certainly won't mind that Bonnie took the cure out of her body. The only thing is --- we only ever see Bonnie literally dying for Elena.

We just have a lot of words on Elena's part.

So this is a perfect time for the show to remind us that yes, Elena is more than OK with doing what she can to contribute towards Bonnie's happiness and well-being.

All does the "Soul-Sister" relationship really mean "Bonnie will sacrifice for Elena but not the other way around"?

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[–] jordanjanellejoy 8 years ago

Don't bother girl. I'm done, with that person in particular. It's one thing to stand for someone but it's another to completely twist others words and claim they posted something when they didn't.

This is precisely why I stayed away from around these parts, some of these folks are annoying as *beep*.

My ass may be dumb, but I ain't no dumbass...

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[–] imaneassi 8 years ago

Bonnie never died for Elena.

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[–] orgine 8 years ago

Bonnie died in 4x1 when she tried to resurrect Elena as a human. She literally stopped her own heart to keep Elena human. Not to keep Elena alive, mind. But to keep her human. The magic was so dangerous that she almost died and the only reason why she survived was because Sheila saved her.

The only reason why you don't remember this is because you have no regard for Bonnie's life or her sacrifices.

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[–] imaneassi 8 years ago

Bs

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[–] jordanjanellejoy 8 years ago

I never said anything about Bonnie making decisions on Elena's life, I think you got me confused with another poster here. I never gave an okay to what Bonnie did. The only thing I said was that she and Elena would be dead had she not extracted the cure in the first place.

For Bonnie's actions it was karma, Enzo died.

My argument goes beyond this cure nonsense; as I've stated multiple times. It's the fact that it's constantly debated on who sacrificed more between Elena and Bonnie, especially when the circumstances at times are vastly different and one constantly received support where the other did not.

And "so called sacrifices"? Well I can counter and call Elena's sacrifices "so called" as well. You're an Elena stan, I get it. But please stop referring to my posts if you're only going to read ten percent of it.

My ass may be dumb, but I ain't no dumbass...

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[–] imaneassi 8 years ago

I'm sim-ply stating that Bonnie's sacrifices are not more valuable than Elena's and they sure don't give her the right to do what she did to be happier.That simple

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[–] orgine 8 years ago

Then by that rhetoric, Elena shouldn't sacrifice Bonnie's own happiness so that she can be happier. But since the show has told us that they're soul sisters who'll die and sacrifice everything for each other... Then Bonnie wasn't doing anything to Elena that Elena won't have gladly agreed to.

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[–] imaneassi 8 years ago

Bonnie was already happy without the cure. Bonnie is the one sacrificing Elena's happiness to be happier

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[–] orgine 8 years ago

Elena was already happy without the Cure, too. Try again.

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[–] imaneassi 8 years ago

No she wasn't.

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[–] orgine 8 years ago

This was the question:

Except Elena has never done anything that would purposely impact Bonnie's life in a negative way. She's always had Bonnie's well-being at the forefront of her mind and I'm sure no one can come up with a scenario where that's false.

Season 1: Sheila specifically told Bonnie in front of Elena that she wasn't strong enough to do the spell. Elena watched Bonnie nose-bleeding and she didn't say "OK, Bonnie. Stop." She stayed silent, Sheila jumped in and Sheila died. Try again.

Season 3: Elena was warned to lay low until Esther's plan was completed. Bonnie told Elena that she and her mother were part of it so Elena knew that Bonnie stood a chance to get hurt. She had no reason whatsoever, no purpose to go on that walk with Elijah except some muddled conscience where she didn't think not risking her friend was worth being smart. Try again.

Season 4: Elena and Stefan specifically talk about how Bonnie is working on a way to de-vamp her. So Elena was aware that Bonnie was trying dangerous magic and she was OK with that. Bonnie lost her magic from this and got Expression magic which was driving her crazy. Show me the scene where Elena told Bonnie that Expression was dangerous and should stop. Show me where when Elena needed a witch, she said "I don't like this Expression thing that Bonnie's involved with... let's find some other witch." Show me any scene in season 4 where Elena showed a moment of concern for Bonnie's welfare. As for Jeremy, humanity-off Elena specifically told Bonnie that she was a crazy person who promised to bring her brother back to life and she hated her. This was Elena, unfiltered, with emotions or concerns to hamper her from saying what she truly felt. Try again.

Season 5: When has Elena killed herself to protect Bonnie? When has Elena killed herself to protect anyone? Oh wait--- there was one time. When she killed herself to unnecessarily accompany Damon on his joyride to the Other Side, passed painfully through Bonnie, then contributed to all the people that were basically tearing Bonnie apart when she was dying to save everyone else's life.
TRY AGAIN.

Season 6: Yeah, Elena really tried. That's why she went upstairs to have a chit-chat with Damon and left Kai and Jeremy to do all the work. That's why Kai got stabbed by Liv and nearly died, and nearly failed to save Bonnie's life. Because Elena cared so much. That's 2/2 rescue missions for Bonnie that Elena jeopardized because - guess what? - Bonnie's wellbeing was never at the fore-front of Elena's mind.

Which is the entire point of this discussion.

No. Bonnie was already happy. She didn't need to risk her best friend's future to be "happier".

And guess what? Elena's future was already set. If she needed a human Damon to be "happier" that's on her, not Bonnie. The first big loss that Bonnie lost was to make Elena happy by saving Stefan. See how long that relationship lasted. Bonnie is smart not to jeopardise her future for Elena's happier-ness after seeing how easily it is for Elena to switch the men she needs to be happy with.

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[–] cocogurl-95192 8 years ago

1000% THIS!



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[–] ThinkBfourUSpeak 8 years ago

And guess what? Elena's future was already set. If she needed a human Damon to be "happier" that's on her, not Bonnie. The first big loss that Bonnie lost was to make Elena happy by saving Stefan. See how long that relationship lasted. Bonnie is smart not to jeopardise her future for Elena's happier-ness after seeing how easily it is for Elena to switch the men she needs to be happy with.



------You is KIND, you is SMART, you is IMPORTANT -----

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[–] lindsay-kneece 8 years ago

I'm sure if Bonnie shot a nail gun at Elena's head while she slept you would just counter how she deserved to use that nail gun.

When did Bonnie's nose bleed? Sorry my S1 memory is not up to par. i know it wasn't when they were spelling the tomb open bc I just watched it for a refresher. The problem with Sheila is she had ulterior motives. She did that spell knowing she never intended to let Damon and Stefan out and when Bonnie found out said she'd finish the spell with or without her. That's why she had to help last minute instead of being better prepared. She lied and then died bc of it.

Season 3: Elena was warned to lay low until Esther's plan was completed. Bonnie told Elena that she and her mother were part of it so Elena knew that Bonnie stood a chance to get hurt. She had no reason whatsoever, no purpose to go on that walk with Elijah except some muddled conscience where she didn't think not risking her friend was worth being smart. Try again.

This one is really far fetched. Esther asked Bonnie to do that spell to kill the Originals. Elena didn't have anything to do with that decision. Like Alaric said to Damon "I'm not gonna blame her for having a conscience."
It's a good thing Elena did tell Eliajah bc if she hadn't Damon, Stefan, Caroline and Tyler would've been dead.

Btw, Elena didn't know Bonnie was tapping into dark magic to help with the vampire transition. All Stefan told her is that Bonnie was looking for a way out

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[–] orgine 8 years ago

I'm sure if Bonnie shot a nail gun at Elena's head while she slept you would just counter how she deserved to use that nail gun.

Look in the mirror. I'm not the one who is trying to rationalise away the gravity of a 16 year old girl repeatedly dying and losing all her family and friends for another.

When did Bonnie's nose bleed? Sorry my S1 memory is not up to par. i know it wasn't when they were spelling the tomb open bc I just watched it for a refresher. The problem with Sheila is she had ulterior motives. She did that spell knowing she never intended to let Damon and Stefan out and when Bonnie found out said she'd finish the spell with or without her. That's why she had to help last minute instead of being better prepared. She lied and then died bc of it.

What does that have to do with Elena having Bonnie's well-being at the fore-front of her mind?

Bonnie was bleeding doing the spell to free Stefan. Elena had the choice to tell her friend to stop, and she stayed silent. Blame Sheila all you want but Elena was there, watching her friend suffering and emotionally blackmailing to keep on. Bonnie didn't stop, and Sheila died for it.

This one is really far fetched. Esther asked Bonnie to do that spell to kill the Originals. Elena didn't have anything to do with that decision. Like Alaric said to Damon "I'm not gonna blame her for having a conscience."

Well, obviously your memory is really wonky. Esther asked Elena first - for doppelganger blood to do the spell in the first place. Elena knew that Esther was going to kill her children and went along with it. The next morning, Bonnie told her that she and her mother were part of the spell. Elena had already agreed to murdering the Michaelsons before she knew the Bennetts were involved. She already knew the Bennetts were involved when she risked everything to "ease her conscience". Her "conscience" was more important than her friend's welfare. Heck, the show - in one of its rare instances of showing Elena in the wrong - actually lampshades this at the end of the episode.

It's a good thing Elena did tell Eliajah bc if she hadn't Damon, Stefan, Caroline and Tyler would've been dead.

If you're going to use that in your defence, then this entire argument is moot because it's a good thing that Bonnie moved Elena's body and tried to draw her blood otherwise Stefan would have killed Elena.

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[–] jordanjanellejoy 8 years ago

Thank you Orgine, thank you 10000000000%, to the zillionth power.

My points were not necessarily what Elena has done for Bonnie in terms of sacrifice, it's the way her sacrifices are treated. Elena's are noticed, she gets support. Until recently Bonnie literally weathered everything on her own. She internalized everything, and it was very rare that any of these people who have benefited from her sevices actually gave a damn enough to ask how she was doing. This is not limited to Elena.

My ass may be dumb, but I ain't no dumbass...

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[–] imaneassi 8 years ago

Elena's sacrifices are unecessary but Bonnie's are so precious...crap

Elena's future wasn't set. She got the cure,decided to take it when Damon decided to be human too, planned a future with Damon, a future Bonnie was aware of.Had Damon refused to be human, maybe Elena wouldn't have taken the cure.She made those future plans based on the cure.Bonnie got with Enzo knowing full well what she was getting into, the cure wasn't part of their future.All of sudden she decides she wants it and to risk/steal her best friends future?Backstabbing and beyond selfish.

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[–] orgine 8 years ago

Elena decided to take the cure, knowing that Damon might not. She even recruited Stefan to play Devil's Advocate to Damon, make sure he really wanted to take the cure after she was human. She was full aware that he could change his mind and she went ahead regardless.

Try again.

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[–] imaneassi 8 years ago

Sure I'll take your word for it since I haven't rewatched since Nina left.

So Elena took the cure before Damon decided anything. But if I recall well, and please do correct me if I'm wrong, but Elena wanted a normal human life, meaning kids and everything, and asked Damon to take the cure so they can have it.She wasn't gonna have a future with him as a vampire anymore. So he decided to give up being a vampire , even if he loved being one, so he can have that future with her, right?In other words,Delena's future was based on that cure and Bonnie knew it. Unlike Bonnie and Enzo's. All of sudden,Bonnie decides she wants the same thing Elena wanted,and backstabbed her 2 best friends to get it.

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[–] orgine 8 years ago

Did you miss the part where I said Elena asked Stefan to talk Damon out of being a Vampire? How does that compute with this scenario you've presented?

You know what? Forget it. Your arguments are repetitive, un-intelligent and covertly racist. I've lost brain cells engaging with you. Consider yourself blocked.

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[–] forksforrests 8 years ago

 I'm really going to miss the message boards

A rose is just a rose.

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[–] ThinkBfourUSpeak 8 years ago

What??? YOu are quitting! No please! This argument was so engaging..



------You is KIND, you is SMART, you is IMPORTANT -----

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[–] jordanjanellejoy 8 years ago



My ass may be dumb, but I ain't no dumbass...

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[–] ThinkBfourUSpeak 8 years ago

I had a blast of a day reading these two. Did they do anything else today? 

We were snowed in so maybe they were too.

------You is KIND, you is SMART, you is IMPORTANT -----

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[–] orgine 8 years ago

Hon, there are only so many ways I can bold the word want, and explain why it's not synonymous with need...

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[–] ThinkBfourUSpeak 8 years ago

You underestimate your endless ability

but I feel you. 

------You is KIND, you is SMART, you is IMPORTANT -----

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[–] kadeskiss 8 years ago

But Bonnies way Both Bonnie and Enzo, Damon and Elena could have their future . Bonnie was willing to turn (she could turn if she didn't care about Elena an put her happiness first .) But she couldn't because Elena won't wake up until Bonnie is dead. So she ask Enzo to turn human for her so they can live out their human life together. So Bonnie plan was to give Enzo the cure , and once Bonnie dies (Elena will wake up) Damon just suck the cure out of Enzo. Bonnie would have lived a full life with Enzo, and Damon could live his life with Elena.

[love]
Kades! [/love]

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[–] bluesysax 8 years ago

So Elena took the cure before Damon decided anything. But if I recall well, and please do correct me if I'm wrong, but Elena wanted a normal human life, meaning kids and everything, and asked Damon to take the cure so they can have it

Elena actually refused to take the cure again unti Damon persuaded her to take it because he would take it with her. After she took it she got her memories back and remembered Damon (when they were on cure island) saying that he couldn't think of anything more miserable that becoming human. That is why she had Stefan try to ensure that Damon was sure about taking the cure.

Never argue with stupid people,they will drag you down to their level then beat you with experience.

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[–] camelotfalls 8 years ago

Thank you for continually being one of the few people who speaks sense in this nonsensical board. I'll miss you and a few other people's posts and thoughts about this dreadful show.

Agree with everything.

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[–] orgine 8 years ago

Thank you too for your common sense! This board has a lot of trolls and I keep saying I won't come back here but gems like you and a few others draw me back in.

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[–] imaneassi 8 years ago

organ donors give up their body parts while they're unconscious all the time.

But they gave their consent first. That's not the case here

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[–] forksforrests 8 years ago

This repeated reference to organ donors doesn't make any sense. The cure does not work like an organ donation for multiple reasons:

a) You don't NEED the cure to survive or even to enhance your quality of life, because arguably, your lifespan and the quality of said life decreases when you become human.
b) an organ donation is a one time deal. You could never take it back. This is not the case with the cure. The cure is something this squad had plans to keep exchanging.
c) one organ cannot benefit multiple people over multiple generations. The cure can and therefore there are utilitarian arguments to make about spreading the cure and helping as many people as possible
d) an organ donation is consented to with the knowledge of all of the above; the cure was never handed over with this type of consent where it was acknowledged that Elena and only Elena would get to determine what happens to the cure over the next 100 years or whatever.
e) an organ donation is a very invasive process with plenty of risks involved while as the cure, as we saw with Elena, is literally just one injection of blood. the only downside is once you're human, you're human forever. Which isn't even a downside, it just means there's no fail-safe option.

If we were to go along with this organ donation analogy, then you're missing the biggest point. Elena DID receive an organ transplant, and it DID its duty and cured her. Now she wants to give said organ to her boyfriend to fix him. But the donor wants it back for her boyfriend. Who has a right to it? The donor who wants it for her immediate happiness IMO and not the girl who wants to fix her boyfriend 60 years from now.

A rose is just a rose.

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[–] bluesysax 8 years ago

Why this repeated notion that the cure belongs to Bonnie WTF?

NO it doesn't, it is part of Elena it belongs to her and ONLY her and she has already made the decision of who she wants to have that cure and she chose Damon so Damon should at least get a say in what happens next since Elena is not in a position make that choice.

I agree that the cure had the potential to cure many vampires but Bonnie chose to give it to Damon. Bonnie did not even give it to Elena she gave it to Damon to decide what to do with it then she washed her hands of it. Damon then gave it to Elena and she only took it because he said he would take it with/from her so they could be human together. Now Bonnie wants the same thing, I get it, why shouldn't she BUT honestly a simple honest conversation with Damon could have erased any bad feeling I harbor about all this because he earned that and so has Elena. It was the decent thing to do IMO.

The last thing I want to mention is that yes Bonnie brought the cure back from 1994 because it was Damon's notes on the map of Nova Scotia and his plan that alerted Bonnie to the magic on that Island that gave her the means to escape the prison world because he was planning to go get the cure himself. It was a combined effort of Bonnie's tenacity and Damon's genius that Bonnie got out of there at all. To completely sideline him in this plan to cure Enzo was just wrong not to mention in bad taste.

Damon does *beep* and selfish things and boy does he get called out for them but woah betide anyone call out Bonnie when she is doing *beep* selfish things on this board. It's not the end of the world, she isn't a perfect saint she is human and also wrong on this occasion.

God knows how imperfect Damon is and I still love him regardless and I will still love Bonnie.

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Never argue with stupid people,they will drag you down to their level then beat you with experience.

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[–] forksforrests 8 years ago

It doesn't "belong" to anyone, because neither one of them created it, inherited it, earned it etc. But if there was ownership being endowed, it would be to Bonnie because she's the one who retrieved it.

Even if it is in Elena's body, it has already done its part by curing her. It's not an indefinite possession of Elena's for as long as she lives just because she happened to swallow it four years ago. After the cure worked its magic on Elena, it had every right to go to Bonnie as it did Damon. It's not justified for Elena to be making the sole decisions over this vital piece of magic that has the potential to completely alter a person's life. A potion that multiple members of their group wants. A cure that she had absolutely no involvement in retrieving/creating/inheriting etc. She has no right to it. She was gifted it, fine. Well, it worked its purpose and now she has given up her claim to her.

Bonnie gave the cure to Damon because Damon wanted it for Elena, so she was giving it to Elena and using Damon as the proxy. She knew Elena wanted to be human again, and this was her way of giving her that.

why shouldn't she BUT honestly a simple honest conversation with Damon could have erased any bad feeling I harbor about all this because he earned that and so has Elena. It was the decent thing to do IMO.

Now maybe Elena has "earned" a simply, honest convo by being bffs with Bonnie her whole life (but barely, because Elena has always used Bonnie's powers for her/her boyfriends well-being), but Damon has NOT earned sh-t. What has Damon done for Bonnie that makes him "earn" such a conversation?

Damon does *beep* and selfish things and boy does he get called out for them but woah betide anyone call out Bonnie when she is doing *beep* selfish things on this board. It's not the end of the world, she isn't a perfect saint she is human and also wrong on this occasion.

Because Damon ONLY does selfish things; he always acts in the interest of himself or his love for Elena. Bonnie has acted selfishly maybe twice on this entire show and has sacrificed her well-being/love life/family more times than any one else on the show. The number of selfish acts Damons committed don't even compare to Bonnie so putting them in the same category and saying we don't call her out enough is absurd.

That's why if there was anyone who "earned" anything, it's Bonnie. She has earned the right to go after what she wants, even if it is at odds with what the other selfish vamps on this show want.

A rose is just a rose.

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[–] LovesConfusingJoy 8 years ago

I don't think it belongs to her simply because it's in her body. Using it is for the betterment of the group.

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[–] imaneassi 8 years ago

Oh spare me that crap. She wanted the cure, she shouldn't have given it to Elena and Damon. She can't give it, let them make plans for the future and take it back destroying that future just so she can be happier.That is beyond selfish.

And let's talk about her 'sacrifices" she kills herself twice once trying to bring Jeremy back for herself and Elena and in season 5, when she tries to get Damon back if I'm not wrong, but it's all Elena's fault. And Klaus kills her once if I'm not wrong but she's oh so great. She's not the only character to die many times,Elena as human and vampire made many many sacrifices as well, but who cares. Only Bonnie's matter.

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[–] awesomebamon 8 years ago

I hate the idea of Bonenzo and how Bonnie was Enzo consumed this season. But, also don't like Delena/Elena fans acting like Bonnie is entitled to Elena and owes it to Elena, to think about Elena's needs with every move that she makes. It's not just this but other things that Elena/DE Stans have attacked Bonnie for since Elena's coma.

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[–] jordanjanellejoy 8 years ago

Bonnie sacrificed her Grams to save Stefan.

She sacrificed herself to save Elena.

She went against nature to bring Jeremy back.

She is almost killed and her mom is turned trying to kill the Originals.

She's forced to unlink the Mikaelson's siblings or her mom and Jeremy die.

She dessicates Klaus and kills Jeremy to save Elena and Tyler.

She saved every single Vampire on this show by transferring Klaus' spirit into Tyler.

She almost kills herself to reverse Elena's Vampirism.

She learns a dangerous form of magic to assist in getting the cure.

She watches Jeremy die by the hands of Silas.

She gets blamed by emotionless Elena for Jeremy's death.

She comes back from Nova Scotia and is having having nightmares, she literally sets her living room on fire and when she tells Caroline, her friends only concern is her prom dress.

She is almost killed by Elena, and in turn almost kills Elena, all the while no one asks how Bonnie is even doing after it happens.

She connects herself to Katherine and is almost killed when Elena tried to kill Katherine. Stefan tells Elena that Bonnie is linked to Katherine and Elena's response because she's "angry"? "I don't care."

Bonnie sees how Elena needs Jeremy, so she uses expression to bring Jeremy back at the expense of her own life. She dies.

Bonnie watches her father get his throat slashed by Silas.

No one even realizes Bonnie is dead until they needed a spell.

Bonnie becomes the anchor and is condemned to feel every supernatural death with excruciating pain.

She brings Alaric, Stefan, Enzo, Elena and Tyler back to life. The only reason Lexi doesn't pass through is because Stefan needed his brother, not because Bonnie was literally dying because so many people passed through her.

Bonnie is stuck with Damon and meets Kai, Bonnie sends Damon home.

Bonnie is stranded with a psychopath and when Damon wants to rescue her he's met with hesitation from Alaric and Tyler, yeah, two people that would be toast if Bonnie hadn't saved them just a few months prior.

Bonnie is close to being saved by Elena and Damon when the latter have a tizzy about Damon stealing the ascendant.

Bonnie tries to kill herself, but Damon hatches a plan to send Kai to the prison world. Kai transports Jeremy there to try and stop Bonnie. Kai almost dies and therefore almost kills Jeremy getting this done.

Bonnie comes home and is asked to go to another prison world with a man she hated 48 hours after she escaped. She didn't want to go, but is persuaded by Damon to go through with it in order to save his mother, a ripper, and to trap Kai.

Bonnie is being targeted by Lily to retrieve the Heretics from the prison world. Damon wants to give Lily the ascendant which could have potentially killed her. When Bonnie says no, Damon chokesaves her.

She is almost killed by Lily, but Damon gives her blood (offscreen)

Kai gets out stabs Bonnie, causes her to receive a collapsed lung before Damon saves her.

Kai links Bonnie and Elena's life, even though the plan to trap Kai was Bonnie AND Damon's, only Bonnie is blamed.

This is only through season 6, because even though they felt she became stronger and more independent character after this season, the writing for her grew infinitely worse.

Bonnie has sacrificed herself every single season with no support. Elena has had half of the eastern seaboard protecting her whenever she gets a hang nail. This is why imo, Bonnie's sacrifices are greater. She went home to nothing, she sacrificed, she died, no support from friends, rinse and repeat.

You tell me one time where Elena made a sacrifice and afterwards she wasn't coddled for it.

My ass may be dumb, but I ain't no dumbass...

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[–] imaneassi 8 years ago

So let me understand. Bonnie most of the time makes stupid decisions that gets her killed or hurt but it's everyone else's fault? I'm not underplaying her sacrifices. But reading you, hers are are more precious than Elena's .Which is bs. For me Elena and Bonnie are the most selfless characters on the show and trying to make Bonnie the only one or the most selfless one is bs.

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[–] jordanjanellejoy 8 years ago

Where did I say hers were more precious than Elena's? I've never said that. I said that her sacrifices are almost always met with silence, aand that's the truth.

And by her making "stupid" decisions, she's saved every single person on this show.

And let's be fair, if Bonnie turned her back on this group and never sacrificed a thing, though she had the power to, she'd be hated even more.

And yes, I do believe Bonnie and Elena have sacrificed, but Bonnie is the only character obligated to keep doing it year in and year out, one slight deviation from killing herself to save everyone and she's hated for it. This goes beyond this little cure b.s., it's been an issue amongst TVD fandom for years.

Elena's always been promised a happily ever after, or they'd die trying getting it for her. Caroline gets to be talked about in the sense of actually having a life, career, etc. Bonnie? Who she would die for that particular season, that's how she was written. A captain save a hoe, year in and year out.

I think her relationship with Enzo was the first time where her dying wasn't a priority.

My ass may be dumb, but I ain't no dumbass...

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[–] awesomebamon 8 years ago

She would be hated, especially if she refused to do something for Elena and would be scene as "Selfish" if Elena was in trouble or her life was in danger and Bonnie preserved her well being/life over Elena's.

You know that there is a certain part of the TVD fandom that thinks that Bonnie is suppose to "Stay in her place" when it comes to their rules of how she should be towards Elena.

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[–] imaneassi 8 years ago

Only in your head

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[–] awesomebamon 8 years ago

Nah not in my head, if you can be on twitter to see the hate that Bonnie gets from the Delena fandom. Like I said they blame her for locking Kai in 1903 and Kai putting Elena into a coma. Because it's all about precious Elena, even if they say that Bonnie should have forgiven the man who abused her. They blamed her in the Damon sleeping with Krystal situation.

So, yes, they do expect Bonnie to "Stay in her place" whenever Elena is impacted. This is just another reason for people who already hate Bonnie to hate on her more.

Don't say that it's in my head, if you aren't around to see the Bonnie hate. Them even saying that Bonnie should commit suicide for Elena and wanting Bonnie to die so that Elena will wake up.

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[–] imaneassi 8 years ago

Only morons would blame Bonnie for Kai' and Damon's action. I blame her for her actions in this past episode.

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[–] jordanjanellejoy 8 years ago

This is my point.

I'm not saying Elena hasn't sacrificed, I'm not saying Elena asked for anything from Bonnie. I'm talking about how Bonnie has given year in and year out to the point it's expected now. No one asks or cares how she's doing once the deed is done, all they care about is the fact she succeeds in saving their faves. Bonnie as a character is inconsequential.

Elena sacrifices and it's all about getting her happy ending, which is cool.

Caroline, it's all about getting her happy ending.

Bonnie? It's all about who she'll kill herself for next in order to assure her friends get a happy ending.

It's been 8 seasons and this is the first time Bonnie's happy anything has ever been addressed by the writers.

My ass may be dumb, but I ain't no dumbass...

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[–] imaneassi 8 years ago

obligated? No. These are HER choices and decisions. No one ever asked her to sacrifice herself. And Elena sure wasn't ungrateful.

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[–] ThinkBfourUSpeak 8 years ago

o wow..damon should have gift wrapped that cure for Enzo aferr all what Bonnie did for them..

------You is KIND, you is SMART, you is IMPORTANT -----

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[–] bluesysax 8 years ago

Because Damon and Elena have done nothing to help Bonnie?? OK then. If not for Damon Bonnie would still be in the PW, If not for Damon Bonnie be dead at Kai's hand at the end of 6x22. If not for Damon Bonnie would have been flattened by a truck, If not for Damon Bonnie would dead by anti-witch pills, If not for Damon the Bennett witch line would have ended with Emily Bennett. It goes both ways. It's a supernatural world and they are all supernatural players trying to survive through friendships and alliances serving themselves and saving the lives of the ones they care about while trying to find the smallest piece of happiness they can among the chaos. These people are meant to be friends and this season is showing just how far they will go to for each other but also just who they are willing to throw under the bus to achieve their own HEA in the end.

We are far from done with this theme, I'm sure of that and Cade showing up and throwing around these sick ultimatums is testing this group of friends and their loyalties to the absolute limits forcing even the most 'selfless' among them to examine just how far their selflessness extends when on the brink of achieving the holy grail of happiness or in other words when they truly have something to lose. Chuck in the promise of spending an eternity in hell when death comes instead of finding peace and the stakes are raised and survival becomes paramount. Will they fight each other or fight FOR each other? we know the answer to that but I think it will get worse before it gets better.

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Never argue with stupid people,they will drag you down to their level then beat you with experience.

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[–] LovesConfusingJoy 8 years ago

She loves Elena/Nina, maybe a little too much. Are you not familiar with her posts?

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[–] forksforrests 8 years ago

The cure wasn't for Elena.

Elena's cure was meant for Delena's future

So which is it because you contradict yourself in your own post. You're right that the cure isn't Elena's. At the time, it was for her because she was the one who most wanted to be human and her friends wanted that for her. Now, things have changed, and other people want the cure. It's not ELENA'S cure, it's just The Cure. No one owes sh-t to "Delena's future". They can plan their future just like Stelena had planned there's in s1-3.

Honestly, I don't get how viewers are still in this mindset of "what about Damon". What about him?! The man has ruined countless lives and doesn't even deserve a happy ending, but forget that. Why is his future with Elena something Bonnie owes him? Why is it more important than HER current, foreseeable future with Enzo?

A rose is just a rose.

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[–] bluesysax 8 years ago

What about him?! The man has ruined countless lives and doesn't even deserve a happy ending, but forget that. Why is his future with Elena something Bonnie owes him?

She doesn't owe him a happy future at the expense of her own, he knows and respects that and it is one of the reasons he took to his coffin last season because she kept on risking herself for him. What she owes him is the respect of a conversation about what her human plans with Enzo would entail before she went about just taking it. Bonnie spent half a season furious with Damon because he didn't talk to her face- face about the plans he was making for HIS future before doing it. Bonnie is/was planning to do something behind his back that affects him and his future because Bonenzo would have to surely disappear into oblivion to protect the cure lest some random vampire with a desire for a human life comes and takes it from him. This is assuming of course Enzo doesn't just drop dead from some human affliction or accident in which case any plans put in place for Damon to take the cure from Enzo in the future become moot.

Never argue with stupid people,they will drag you down to their level then beat you with experience.

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[–] lindsay-kneece 8 years ago

Exactly!! What were her words to him in 7x15? "I'm not ok with you choosing yourself". Which is exactly what Bonnie did without having a conversation with him about something that would affect his future. I was impressed with how well Damon handled it tbh.

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[–] forksforrests 8 years ago

Damon choosing to kill himself is not the same thing as Bonnie choosing a future life for herself and Enzo. What Damon did [though I agreed with his actions, for once] was selfish because his brother was begging him to stay and because Bonnie needed him at the time. He just chose to ignore all that, stake himself, and say goodbye with a letter to her. Fine, whatever, his prerogative. But it's not an equivalent to Bonnie choosing LIFE. Damon was choosing death. He wasn't making plans for his future; he was making plans to no longer have a future. No longer be there for his family or friends. Bonnie had a right to be mad about that. Stefan even more so.

After that event, I no longer consider Bonnie and Damon to be friends, much less best friends. She moved on. So Bonnie doesn't owe any more conversations to Damon, especially not after he tried to kill her once AGAIN this season. And after he killed Tyler. She is allowed to make decisions for herself without consulting her the man who consistently terrorizes her and puts her life in jeopardy. If she owed anyone a convo, it would be Elena, but Elena's in a coma right now. And we all know Elena would never say no to a request like that, after what Bonnie has done for her time after time.

A rose is just a rose.

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[–] jordanjanellejoy 8 years ago

She actually brought the cure back and offered it to Abby first, her mother, but Abby was okay being a Vampire.

She then gave the cure to Damon and let him choose, so no, she did not explicitly bring it back for Elena.

It's a moot point anyway. Folks can get mad that Bonnie took the cure from Elena (even though it was Caroline's idea, but I guess that's no different than people blaming Bonnie for the Kai fiasco even though that was Damon's idea, but whatever) but in the end, her withdrawing the cure saved Elena's life, had she not have done that she and Elena would most likely be dead.

I'm not a Delena fan, I was not a Bonenzo fan, but as long as the cure didn't do any irreparable damage to Elena then her relationship with Damon still goes, he just wouldn't be able to become human. Enzo is gone, he's dead, and unless they come up with a way to resurrect him then there is no way he and Bonnie will reunite unless a deal is struck or Bonnie dies. At this point, I see Bonnie dying as an answer to that.

My ass may be dumb, but I ain't no dumbass...

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[–] lindsay-kneece 8 years ago

She actually never offered the cure to Abby. She didn't have to BECAUSE she already knew Abby was happy as a vampire. Moot point.

Enzo will return in the finale we just don't know at what capacity. MM said he's filmed a few scenes here and there so Bonnie still has a chance to get her happy ending.

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[–] jordanjanellejoy 8 years ago

No, I was under the impression she asked Abby, which is why Bonnie said "surpringly she's happy as a Vampire", then she offered it to Damon.

And this is Julie Plec, Lindsay, you have way more faith than I do. Her "happiness" will not be on par with any of the other characters. This was the same lady that said Bonnie was happy dead, in season 5.

My ass may be dumb, but I ain't no dumbass...

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[–] lindsay-kneece 8 years ago

The only reason Bonnie got out of the prison world was Damon's directions on the map to Nova Scotia so he could get the cure for Elena! That's why she gave it to him. As a thank you for helping her escape.

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[–] RidiculousPasta 8 years ago

Why try to reason with Delena shippers? They're borderline psychotic in the name of their stupid pairing. Just let them whine and cry.

Nearly every character on this show would've died 100 times over without Bonnie sacrificing for them every single season. It's cannon and it happened on screen. No point trying to prove anything to the worst fandom to ever hit the internet.

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[–] camelotfalls 8 years ago

You're right. These boards shutting down will be a blessing for the word, frankly.

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[–] lindsay-kneece 8 years ago

Shipping has nothing to do with it. Not in my case atleast. Elena is basically dead for 60 years giving Bonnie the life she deserves. If we're getting technical, and I don't usually like to compare suffering, it'll be bigger than any sacrifice a character has made on the show including Bonnie. I'm sick of Bonnie stans saying that just bc she's sacrificed, just like the others have, she's entitled to something that doesn't belong to her

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[–] awesomebamon 8 years ago

And sick of Elena Stans acting like Bonnie owes every second of her life to always thinking about Elena's needs and wants. Bonnie is always blamed even for Damon sleeping with Krystal.

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[–] jordanjanellejoy 8 years ago

Lol. What? How on earth is that Bonnie's fault?

My ass may be dumb, but I ain't no dumbass...

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[–] awesomebamon 8 years ago

Because Bonnie something like how it was okay for Damon to move on with other women and they see that as more of a "betrayal" to Elena. Because I guess it's Bonnie's job to lecture/remind Damon about Elena whenever he wants to sleep with another woman.

And were more upset towards Bonnie than they were towards Damon who actually did the actions of sleeping with another woman. But, they excuse him with him thinking that Elena was dead.

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[–] orgine 8 years ago

Elena is basically dead for 60 years giving Bonnie the life she deserves. If we're getting technical, and I don't usually like to compare suffering, it'll be bigger than any sacrifice a character has made on the show including Bonnie.

Oh please. Elena would literally have been dead three times over long before Kai came out of prison and cursed Bonnie. Heck, the entire reason why Bonnie got into the Other Side can be directly traced to Bonnie searching for the Cure for Elena. Any number of villains obsessed with Elena - from Katherine to Klaus to Silas to the Travellers - would have murdered her and used her body parts to make some doppelganger-powered super-spell if she didn't have Bonnie Bennett in her corner.

Elena should be grateful that she got a chance to pay back a fraction of what Bonnie has done for her.

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[–] jordanjanellejoy 8 years ago

What did Elena say to Bonnie in 6x23? "You've spent your entire life making sacrifices for me, it's time I did it for you"

She has saved half of the characters to ever be on this show, including Klaus' entire bloodline. Remember the bloodline they were willing to wipeout when they thought only Tyler would be affected.

My ass may be dumb, but I ain't no dumbass...

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[–] bluesysax 8 years ago

What did Elena say to Bonnie in 6x23? "You've spent your entire life making sacrifices for me, it's time I did it for you"

Proof in one sentence that what Elena is doing is seen as a sacrifice by both women. Elena might not be sacrificing her life but she is sacrificing a lifetime of human relationships with the only human people in her life that she loves. Jeremy, Matt, Alaric and Bonnie herself. She is doing that because she loves Bonnie and would never sacrifice Bonnie for herself and at the end of it she will get a semblance of a life she wanted. A human life with the person she loves and the potential of a family of her own. Elena recognises that she can't have it all right now, not at the expense of her friend so she is willing to accept and embrace a future life that will involve Damon by her side and a family of her own to mitigate losing the family she will lose right now, because Matt, Alaric and Jer ARE her family. Bonnie has lost her family (Dad and Grams) to the supernatural world, but she still has her Mom, Matt, Caroline and the love of her life (well she did). Bonnie is still alive, despite her sacrifices she is still alive and that is in some part due to her friends because they love her and fought for her and risked their lives for her too.

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Never argue with stupid people,they will drag you down to their level then beat you with experience.

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[–] lindsay-kneece 8 years ago

and Bonnie would've been dead in S2 if Elena hadn't been the only damn person to refuse that Bonnie's death was not an option. She also would've stayed dead if Elena hadn't done the doppleganger spell in S5 and now she's sleeping her life away. Elena should be grateful for Bonnie's sacrifices and she is but Bonnie should be grateful too. I can't take it how everyone thinks Bonnie is the only one that has suffered. They've all suffered terribly. Caroline has prob suffered the least but Damon, Stefan, Ric, Matt, Elena - they've all suffered and sacrificed not just Bonnie.

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[–] imaneassi 8 years ago

Exactly

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[–] orgine 8 years ago

The only reason why Bonnie's death was an option was because Bonnie offered it up in the first place.

That's like if Bonnie stepped in front of a gun that Klaus was pointing at Elena and Elena pushed her behind her, and Bonnie says "Thank you for saving me."!

Elena was Klaus's target. Bonnie had nothing to do with this. She could have just stayed out of it, moved away, made it clear that she wasn't interested in being part of the conflict, etc. And Elena would have died because she needed Bonnie's magic to resurrect her with Uncle John's death.

The only way this reads as a sacrifice that Elena made is if you really feel the Bonnie's life belongs to Elena.

And Bonnie was already dead when Elena did the doppelganger spell. I mean, I'm grateful that Elena made the great sacrifice of reading lines from a book for the spell. And that her reward to Bonnie was a year of torment and agony, that was so great that Bonnie was actually grateful to finally die at the end.

Both of which hold up to Bonnie dying to bring Elena's brother back to life. Bonnie going mad from Expression so that Elena doesn't become the same thing that the two loves of her life are. Bonnie losing her grandmother, her father and her mother (twice) to keep Elena's happy.

But let's talk more about how Elena did the doppelganger spell.

Yes, they've all suffered. But if you're arguing that Bonnie hasn't suffered disproportionately with very little done in reciprocity then you're biased.

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[–] 8 years ago

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[–] bluesysax 8 years ago

Elena and Jeremy are without doubt the two people on this show that have suffered the most with regards to loss on this show. I feel for both but I identify with Elena more because much of it was due to to her Doppelganger status which was beyond her control so the guilt that girl carries on her young shoulders must weigh really heavy. Elena made some stupid decisions in her time (like trusting Elijah) which led to catastrophic consequences for Bonnie when her mom was turned but lets be honest here, the loss of Abbey was about on par with Elena witnessing her not-Mom burst into flames. Abbey was not 'Mom' material and neither was Isobel.

I disagree about Caroline though. Both her parents are dead, and one was killed by a friend albeit one not in his right mind (Alaric) but still. Her (forced) children are at risk from the supernatural world because they are supernatural but she loves them and is separated from them. That is really hard for a Mom. I vascillate between loving and hating Caroline TBH but that's because the writing for her is often inconsistent. Caroline is the ultimate plot device.

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Never argue with stupid people,they will drag you down to their level then beat you with experience.

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[–] awesomebamon 8 years ago

Bonnie had to see her father slaughtered right in front of him tho and witnessed her Grams death.

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[–] forksforrests 8 years ago

She's entitled to something that she herself retrieved and suffered for. That's just logic 101. Bonnie got the cure from the other side, therefore, she is allowed to do whatever she wants with it. She let Elena borrow it, k cool. Now she found her soulmate, and she wants the cure for him. That's perfectly reasonable and she is more than 'entitled' to it. It's not Elena's cure, it just happens to be in her body. This isn't something Elena inherited; this isn't something that's in Elena's genes; this isn't something Elena earned; this isn't something Elena fought to attain; this isn't something Elena drew legal paper work to claim. It's NOT Elena's. It's like swallowing someone's house keys and claiming it's your own because it's in your body. Sorry, it's not.

I don't even like Bonnie and I can say without a doubt that if we were to compare suffering and the sheer number of sacrifices, Bonnie wins. Frankly, half the reason I couldn't stand her character was because I didn't respect the way she continually martyerd herself for her friends and let them walk all over her own desires. It's now why I don't respect Stefan either. But I can most definitely say she deserves the cure because of what she's went through for her friends. Just like Stefan deserves absolution A LOT more than Damon.

A rose is just a rose.

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[–] orgine 8 years ago

It's NOT Elena's. It's like swallowing someone's house keys and claiming it's your own because it's in your body. Sorry, it's not.

LOL! This pretty much destroys the argument. :D

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[–] Darrylmurphy 8 years ago

Not even close, that only works if Elena took the cure without Bonnies consent, this is more like someone donating bone marrow or a kidney then deciding later hey wait I could do with that back, give it, wait your in a coma ok i'll just take it anyway.

Bonnie gave the cure to Damon to give to Elena, she went and got the cure specifically for that purpose, had she changed her mind before Elena took the cure that would be one thing but once she gave it away and Elena took it it's not Bonnies anymore.

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[–] lindsay-kneece 8 years ago

Exactly! She wanted that cure back when her situation changed and didn't care whose future she was screwing up. That's ooc of Bonnie.

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[–] forksforrests 8 years ago

Does anyone act by taking into consideration the potential impact it could have on other people's futures over their own immediate happiness? No. That's not even selfishness, it's just rationality.

A rose is just a rose.

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[–] orgine 8 years ago

Not even close, that only works if Elena took the cure without Bonnies consent, this is more like someone donating bone marrow or a kidney then deciding later hey wait I could do with that back, give it, wait your in a coma ok i'll just take it anyway.

That analogy would work if taking the cure actually killed Elena. Since it doesn't, it's just an exaggeration conjured to make Bonnie out as a murderer.

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[–] Darrylmurphy 8 years ago

No it's not bone marrow replenishes, kindey may have been of, I think it's the liver that regrows right? it makes 100 times more sense than a flipping key analogy also.

And they don't KNOW it wont kill Elena they presume, they hope, they wish it wont but they cant be certain, so if anything yor arguments are the exaggeration, along with anyone else whose argument is Bonnie recovered the cure she has control and overriding dominion over who can use it and when regardless of any other circumstances.

Ive said before I don't mind Bonnie wanting it, I don't care if it would end up screwing over Damon he deserves it, but how she treated her comatose best friend was wrong on so many levels.

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[–] orgine 8 years ago

No it's not bone marrow replenishes, kindey may have been of, I think it's the liver that regrows right? it makes 100 times more sense than a flipping key analogy also.

And they don't KNOW it wont kill Elena they presume, they hope, they wish it wont but they cant be certain, so if anything yor arguments are the exaggeration, along with anyone else whose argument is Bonnie recovered the cure she has control and overriding dominion over who can use it and when regardless of any other circumstances.

Your analogy still fails because Bonnie is not going to be giving Elena her kidney if Elena doesn't need*** one. ::eye roll:: . Same thing if Bonnie's giving her bone marrow. If Elena doesn't get them, she will die.

So taking either would mean killing Elena because she needs Bonnie's organs to live.

The key analogy is perfect because it's something foreign in Elena's body that doesn't belong there - and that she doesn't need. Elena didn't need to take the Cure any more than a random person needs to swallow a key. She just wanted to. She could have happily continued to live her undead life - like thousands of vampires in the world - without it.

Try again.

And yeah, let's say for the sake of argument that no one knows that it won't kill Elena (even though the show has told us so, but whatever).

Elena herself had already planned on giving the Cure to Damon. So she didn't know it won't kill her either when she made her plans. And Damon didn't know it won't kill her either when he made his plans. So Elena had already weighed that risk and was going to take that risk - regardless of who took the Cure out of her and for what.

The way she treated her comatose friend? Your bias is so strong that you can't even see that Bonnie's actions directly led to Elena's life being saved. If Bonnie hadn't kept her casket safe while Denzo were in Sybil's control (the last time Damon lost control, he burned Elena's casket, do you remember that? Where were all your complaints about Elena's bodily autonomy then?) and if she hadn't already drawn the cure from Elena's body and had it ready to stab Stefan ---- Elena would be dead. But no, keep trying to justify your hatred for the character.

***Unless of course, since this whole argument is showing just how horrible some people think about Bonnie and her worth as a human being, who is not Elena's beck-and-call slave/sister - you actually think that there' s a feasible scenario where Bonnie will be giving up one of her kidneys just because Elena thinks an extra kidney would be a great fashion accessory. Then, I completely agree that it's a perfect analogy. Perfectly gross.

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[–] imaneassi 8 years ago

The key analogy is perfect because it's something foreign in Elena's body that doesn't belong there - and that she doesn't need. Elena didn't need to take the Cure any more than a random person needs to swallow a key. She just wanted to. She could have happily continued to live her undead life - like thousands of vampires in the world - without it.

No you try again.Maybe you hate people and think being a vampire is a blast even if it means no kids and living feeding off people's blood and killing people but not everyone is as sick as you are. Clearly Elena wanted a normal human life, she needed the cure. And in order to have the future she wants with Damon he needed it too. They planned that their future on that cure and Bonnie knew it. And all of sudden she decides she wants it and backstabbes her 2 bestfriends so you try again.

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[–] orgine 8 years ago

Clearly Elena wanted a normal human life, she needed the cure. And in order to have the future she wants with Damon he needed it too. They planned that their future on that cure and Bonnie knew it.

I don't even need to try. You make it too easy.

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[–] imaneassi 8 years ago

You mean crystal clear...If Bonnie wanted that cure she shouldn't have given it to Damon and Elena. But she did .It's not hers anymore and they planned their future on it. She doesn't get to take it back.She definitly backstabbed her 2 best friends.

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[–] orgine 8 years ago

And for the millionth time, their future is not compromised. Elena and Damon want the Cure, they don't need it. It's not necessary for their future and if it's, that's not Bonnie's problem.

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[–] lindsay-kneece 8 years ago

It is pretty necessary bc Elena wants children and they need to cure for that. Damon wouldn't let Elena compromise and he'd want her to find someone that would be able to give her that. It's not that they can't physically be together but it does disrupt their future.

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[–] orgine 8 years ago

So she wants something more, right?

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[–] imaneassi 8 years ago

No. She wants what she was allowed to have when Bonnie gave them the cure.Bonnie doesn't get to take that away form them just because now she wants it for herself. It's Bonnie who now wants more. She's already happy with Enzo. Now, she wants more so she decided to betray her 2 bets friends.

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[–] 8 years ago

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[–] forksforrests 8 years ago

If Caroline can get pregnant with twins that aren't even her own, then this show can find a way to give Elena children. So, no. Their future is not compromised. Let's not pretend that when Elena was a vampire in a relationship with vampire Damon, they already knew their future entailed NO children. Damon was completely okay with that, considering he liked vampirism. Elena and Stefan were the only people in this universe who wanted to be humans and do the whole family, children, grow old and die together thing.

Frankly, anything can disrupt their future. Choosing to become human is a huge disruption because Elena could get cancer in 10 years and die.

A rose is just a rose.

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[–] imaneassi 8 years ago

Of course their future is compromised. They need it to have a normal human life, the one they planned when Bonnie gave them the cure. Meaning kids and growing old together.. Yesit is necessary for their future and yes it is Bonnie's problem. She had absolutly no right to take it away form them.Once she gave it to them, it wasn't hers anymore.Bonnie saw her future with Enzo without the cure. Her wanting it now is out of the blue. And just because she decided that she wanted what Elena wanted doesn't give her the right to simply take it. But for you, Bonnie is entitled to everything, no matter if it means hurting, backstabbing her 2 best friends.

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[–] Darrylmurphy 8 years ago

No the show has presumed that the cure being removed wont kill Elena because she's young, the characters assume this because they are morons, maybe the writers told us this is the case but what we know and what they the characters are meant to know are different.

And wether Elena needed or wanted it makes no difference, because she wasn't making a selfish choice in that instant, he best friend retrieved the cure for Damon so he could give it to Elena because they both knew Elena didn't really want to be a vampire, out of those she knew Damon didn't want it in the past, Stefan turned it down, Caroline likes being a vampire, Ric was already human again, Enzo was barely a friend the only other person was Lily who was a vampire but she clearly didn't want the cure because she knew of it but didn't take it.

Elena took the cure because she was offered it and because Damon was willing to be human with her, and she was willing to risk it to be mortal with him, if she knew she may end up being mortal whilst he remained a vampire then maybe she would have said no, but she took it intending to spend a mortal life with him, she was given the choice and that's what she chose to do, risk it for a mortal life with Damon, and like I said if Bonnie is being selfish enough to go behind her friends backs to take the cure from them for herself for the exact same reason why wouldn't Elena be willing to be selfish also, what makes Bonnie being selfish more ok than Elena when Bonnie has to also go behind their backs and harvest her comatose friends blood also to be selfish?

Your bias is the one that's clear, your trying to contort everything to justify Bonnie's actions, so far as to compare Elena taking the cure Bonnie got specifically for her to Elena grabbing Bonnie's keys and swallowing them like she was a 3 year old.

I have said before how they wrote Bonnie was bad because their was just as easy a way to write the story without making her seem so I don't know the word that describes it without it either being not strong enough or being too strong, Bonnie wanting it, Bonnie doing what she had to get it, Bonnie not giving a crap about Damon's needs is fine, but for her to just take it from Elena who was in a coma who we don't know how taking the cure will effect her long run, just so Bonnie can have the perfect life she wanted was off.

And it's not just because of what she did but because of the fact she planned to do it, she could have tried to get Elena's permission by Enzo doing the vamp dream walking thing, and then either Elena says yes and all's good or elena acts selfish in which Bonnie feels betrayed and in anger at her friends selfishness acts impulsively selfish also, she doesn't need to be at Elena's beck and call and always do what's right for Elena, but she didn't need to be Damon level selfish either.

And you cant justify her behaviour with the oh but because of what she did she saved Elena because that's not her intention to begin with, hell her intent I can argue is what put Elena in danger, if she wasn't planning on visiting and harvesting the cure from Elena then Cade may not have found out where she was so easily so Stefan wouldn't have been able to track her down so easily, now that's an unfair thing to blame her for but so is trying to justify her behaviour by the accidental turn of events, again clearly showing your bias because your pulling out any excuse possible regardless of the logic behind it.

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[–] orgine 8 years ago

No the show has presumed that the cure being removed wont kill Elena because she's young, the characters assume this because they are morons, maybe the writers told us this is the case but what we know and what they the characters are meant to know are different.

Then Elena was going to take that risk when Damon took the Cure, whether or not Kai had cursed her.

Elena took the cure because she was offered it and because Damon was willing to be human with her, and she was willing to risk it to be mortal with him, if she knew she may end up being mortal whilst he remained a vampire then maybe she would have said no

Actually, Elena asked Stefan to convince Damon not to take the cure because she thought he would be miserable as a human. So no, she was prepared to face a future as a human and her vampire boyfriend. Her "happiness" did not hinge on Damon.

Bonnie is being selfish enough to go behind her friends backs to take the cure from them for herself for the exact same reason why wouldn't Elena be willing to be selfish also, what makes Bonnie being selfish more ok than Elena when Bonnie has to also go behind their backs and harvest her comatose friends blood also to be selfish?

Bonnie taking the Cure now, doesn't stop Elena/Damon from taking the Cure in 60 odd years. The Cure just residing, dormant in Elena's body, on the chance that in 60 odd years, Damon would still be alive, would still be in love with her and willing to take the Cure - means that Bonnie loses her chance of taking the Cure now. Considering that Bonnie could prolong her immortality by either becoming a vampire, or increasing her lifespan as a witch - so she won't need Enzo to take the Cure at all and shorten his lifespan - I think it's beyond unreasonable for you to imagine that Bonnie is in anyway being selfish in this scenario. But let's face it - if Bonnie isn't directly sacrificing herself for Elena and Elena's happiness, she's selfish to you.

And you cant justify her behaviour with the oh but because of what she did she saved Elena because that's not her intention to begin with, hell her intent I can argue is what put Elena in danger, if she wasn't planning on visiting and harvesting the cure from Elena then Cade may not have found out where she was so easily so Stefan wouldn't have been able to track her down so easily, now that's an unfair thing to blame her for but so is trying to justify her behaviour by the accidental turn of events, again clearly showing your bias because your pulling out any excuse possible regardless of the logic behind it.

That's quite a reach, isn't it? Cade reads minds and Stefan was determined to kill Elena. So short of Bonnie killing herself - which I'm sure you would feel is justified - both of them would have found a way to get Bonnie and get the knowledge of where Elena was hidden. Even if Damon had hidden Elena - Cade would have still read his mind.

These so-called "excuses" are what 6 seasons of this show has been based on - that Elena and Bonnie are soul-sisters who would sacrifice anything for each other's happiness. So it should go without saying that Bonnie doesn't need Elena's permission, blessing or otherwise consent to get the Cure because Elena would already give her the Cure. She has that confidence in her "soul sister". So the question is - why do you, a so-called Elena stan - not believe in Elena's generosity? Could it just be that when you think of their "strong sister-hood", you only see it in terms of what Bonnie can give to Elena and not the other way around?

Your logic is extremely prejudiced, borderline racist, filled with cowardly deflections and just plain stupid. You haven't been able to provide a defensible argument to any of the points that have been laid out to you; and in plain terms, engaging with you is regressing me intellectually. Consider yourself blocked.

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[–] 8 years ago

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[–] forksforrests 8 years ago

The thing is, I don't see the cure as belonging to either Bonnie OR Elena definitively, but I don't think that Elena has a "right" to it like you guys seem to claim. It may happen to be in her body, but it was never *hers* to begin with. Just like it was never Katherine's. Now if I had to assign ownership, it would be to Bonnie due to the sheer amount of suffering she had to go through to retrieve this cure and in general, the pain she's suffered for this group. They owe her a chance at happiness because they're indebted to her for the number of times she's saved their asses.

So you're right that Elena took the cure from Bonnie with her consent (just like I could take a friend's spare house keys to crash for the night) but that doesn't mean that Elena has sole ownership over this cure, for the rest of eternity, to give to whomever she pleases with 0 obligation to Bonnie--the person who gave it to her in the first place. She took the cure from Bonnie when Bonnie had absolutely no reason to want the cure for herself. And now the situation has changed. Not to mention, Bonnie gave the cure to help Elena, she didn't give it to cure Damon. So Elena got cured, yipee. The gift served its purpose. Elena didn't get cured because she wanted a HEA with Damon (they could have stayed vamps and had their HEA like Steroline intended), she got cured because she wanted to be human. She got what she wanted. The cure is no longer "hers". Bonnie has more of a right to it at this point than Damon, because Bonnie is the one who fetched it.

A rose is just a rose.

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[–] lindsay-kneece 8 years ago

House keys really? That's not even close to a good analogy. Bonnie gave that cure to Damon as a thank you for helping her get out of the prison world bc she KNEW that his plan was to get it for Elena. She said "I was just finishing what you started". After Elena took the cure it most definitely belonged to her and the fact that Bonnie was planning to give the cure to Enzo without telling Damon proves she knew it was wrong. Then when he brought it up she shrugged with no apologies. Bonnie deserves happiness and I hope she gets it but stepping on your two best friends to get it is not the way. if Elena was the one to do this to Bonnie ya'll would be crucifying her.

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[–] forksforrests 8 years ago

It may be a reductive analogy but it's no more reductive than the way you guys are acting like Bonnie has ripped out Elena's heart and physically prevented her from ever having a future.

My point was the say that the cure was never Elena's. She was given this cure by Bonnie but it wasn't like she gave her a liver transplant. The key analogy loosely works. Bonnie's spare house keys were given to Elena because Elena AT THE TIME wanted them. She wasn't going to die without this item so it was never a necessity. And the temporary ownership doesn't mean that Elena has a definitive right to these keys forever and ever, it means she's allowed to use them for their immediate purpose (to cure herself // to crash at Bonnie's house while Bonnie is out and has no need for the house). Now, Bonnie needs the cure back and she has a right to want it back. Just because Elena has this item in her body, doesn't mean she has ownership over this piece of property. It's not a baby; she didn't help create the cure. It's not even something she can't live without, so it's not an vital organ donation. She was just given the cure by Bonnie when Bonnie didn't need it at the time. But the cure has served its purpose for Elena. She's human again. Now it's someone else's turn and that turn should be Bonnie's, as she was the one who got this cure for Elena in the first place.

A rose is just a rose.

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[–] 8 years ago

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[–] 8 years ago

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[–] imaneassi 8 years ago

Spot on. I never blamed Bonnie for anything except what for what she did know. It was litterally backstabbing her two best friends.

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[–] 8 years ago

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[–] christinaparker-60256 8 years ago

I do think it was wrong of Bonnie to take the cure out of Elena for the purpose of having a human life with Enzo. I think Damon taking it to save Caroline/his brother's life is not wrong. Let's presume that after removing it from Elena something were to happen to the cure making it so Damon couldn't take it. This seems 100% plausible given all the *beep* these people deal with on a daily basis. I think it is more acceptable for the cure to be off the table because it was used to save the life of Caroline/Stefan and countless others, then for Bonnie to take with her boyfriend so they can both be human together. This IS Bonnie taking it away from Elena and Damon for her own selfish gain, for something that barely makes sense (why do these people want to be human!).

That being said, despite the fact that it was wrong, I think Bonnie is entitled to do the wrong thing once in awhile. She has sacrificed herself numerous times for her friends, for their lives and also for their happiness. So while I think it WAS wrong of Bonnie, I don't think we can really fault her for doing this given the suffering she has endured due to her friends' actions.

Ultimately, Bonnie did do the wrong thing, but in a show where she has been killed like a million times, has sacrificed her happiness for her friends so many times and just generally been *beep* on by everyone, I am not mad.

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[–] orgine 8 years ago

Let's presume that after removing it from Elena something were to happen to the cure making it so Damon couldn't take it.

I fail to see how this is Bonnie's problem since she was the one who got the cure in the first place.

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[–] christinaparker-60256 8 years ago

But she gave it to Elena, who took it under the assumption that Damon would take it from her when she woke up. Her giving it to Elena doesn't mean she still h as the rights to it, it was a gift, you don't get to dictate the usage of or take back a gift once it has been given.

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[–] orgine 8 years ago

you don't get to dictate the usage of or take back a gift once it has been given.

Wait, is this Kindergarten? If this was a trinket that Bonnie picked up in France and gave to Elena as her house-warming present, yeah I'll say the normal "rules" of gift-taking applied.

This is the equivalent of an actual cure that Elena has and Enzo needs. There's no moral reason why Elena has to deprive Enzo of it when Damon will still get a chance at it.

That's not going into everything that Bonnie suffered to get that Cure for Elena.

So no. Elena doesn't have the right to deprive Bonnie of something that she needs now.

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[–] christinaparker-60256 8 years ago

My point is that Caroline, Damon and Bonnie would have to be stupid to assume that taking the cure from Elena now would still preserve it for anyone's usage later on, given that they are all linked to the Devil who is causing havoc in their lives. ANy of those 3 choosing to take the cure from ELena has to understand that very likely potential consequence. That was the point of spelling Elena a way so no one could get to her. Bonnie was the one who did that spell!

Bonnie gave that to cure to Elena, who is operating under the assumption that Damon will get to take it when she wakes up. Bonnie took that from her, knowing full well there is a likely chance it won;t play out that way and Damon will never get to take it. I don't think you can call those actions right, regardless of anything Bonnie has done for the group or the fact that she "needs" it now. And in my subsequent point, I say Bonnie doesn't particularly need to care, on a show full of people doing near consistently selfish things, but it also doesn't make her actions right. I mean, she even says as much on the phone during this episode.

I see these types of arguments as the same as the ones who justify Damon's consistently *beep* actions. You dont' get to suddenly start saying her actions are fine or not her problem if you've been railing against Damon for years (which I personally have). You CAN say that maybe Bonnie gets a turn at happiness at someone else's expense even if she doesn't do the "right" thing.

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[–] orgine 8 years ago

By the logic, Damon won't be around when Bonnie dies to take the Cure from Elena. Damon has been enslaved to a siren, then the Devil, killed by Matt and Alaric and the only reason he's even alive is because of his immortality deal. If Bonnie is wrong for giving the Cure to Enzo because there's a risk he won't survive, then Damon is incredibly selfish for depriving the Cure from Enzo now when there's a big chance that he won't live to use it.

Bonnie is the most self sacrificing person on the show and I won't take her perspective on what is selfish or not as a rule.

Caroline is the most objective person in this scenario and she didn't have a problem with the arrangement. Everybody has selfish reasons for wanting the Cure. Caroline is invested in Bonnie's and Elena's happiness and she felt it was a win-win scenario. Your entire argument hinges on you prioritizing the 'possibility' of Damon's happiness over the certainty of Bonnie's.

None of this even has anything to do with Elena.

Bonnie gave that to cure to Elena, who is operating under the assumption that Damon will get to take it when she wakes up. Bonnie took that from her, knowing full well there is a likely chance it won;t play out that way and Damon will never get to take it.

Damon gave the Cure to Elena and Elena took it, knowing fully well that Damon might choose not to. She even recruited Stefan to change his mind. Nothing about Elena's decisions about the Cure have anything to do with Damon.

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[–] christinaparker-60256 8 years ago

By the logic, Damon won't be around when Bonnie dies to take the Cure from Elena. Damon has been enslaved to a siren, then the Devil, killed by Matt and Alaric and the only reason he's even alive is because of his immortality deal.

We can hope.

If Bonnie is wrong for giving the Cure to Enzo because there's a risk he won't survive, then Damon is incredibly selfish for depriving the Cure from Enzo now when there's a big chance that he won't live to use it.

I would agree with this logic, the problem is Damon didn't even know Bonnie was going to do that and Elena obviously didn't either. So Bonnie gave them both the choice, then took it back without asking in a scenario that didn't involve someone dying (which is why I drew a distinction between Caroline's ask). I just think that's wrong. Bonnie being the constant sacrifice/selfless whatever doesn't mean an act isn't wrong. It just means she is justified in acting in her own self interests FOR ONCE just as the other characters do so often.

The reason I make the dinstinction, is because it drives me crazy when people defend Damon's actions CONSTANTLY as RIGHT because of the end results. He kills 1000 people but saves his friends so he did the right thing. No, he didn't. He did the thing that benefited himself and saved his friends, these actions don't become right because there is a justification.

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[–] orgine 8 years ago

I would agree with this logic, the problem is Damon didn't even know Bonnie was going to do that and Elena obviously didn't either. So Bonnie gave them both the choice, then took it back without asking in a scenario that didn't involve someone dying (which is why I drew a distinction between Caroline's ask). I just think that's wrong. Bonnie being the constant sacrifice/selfless whatever doesn't mean an act isn't wrong. It just means she is justified in acting in her own self interests FOR ONCE just as the other characters do so often.

Firstly, it's still Damon assuming that the Cure to immortality is something that is exclusively his and Elena's right and theirs alone so there's no responsibility in them trying to preserve it or duplicate it or otherwise share it with others who might have need for it. Does Damon honestly believe that they're the only vampires in the world who would ever want it?

Secondly, Caroline wasn't asking Damon either. She was including him in the plan when the question of Cade's immortality came up. And she point-blank tells him that the Cure wasn't his. If Cade hadn't needed to be included in the matter, she'd never have mentioned it to him.

Thirdly, if Bonnie taking the Cure would automatically mean that Damon couldn't have it 60 years down the line - then I would admit that that was an act of selfishness and we can argue about whether or not Bonnie was entitled to that selfishness. Enzo taking the Cure didn't mean that Damon couldn't. (Yes, there are the odds that Enzo could die with the Cure, etc but there are also odds that Elena could die with the Cure. Enzo had already saved Elena's life once by moving her body with Tyler. So these odds aren't any factor in this decision-making because the possibility exists in both situations).

He kills 1000 people but saves his friends so he did the right thing.

And that right there is the fundamental prejudice of your argument. Comparing Bonnie securing her happiness - that in no way compromises Damon's - to Damon "killing 1000 people" pretty much summarises the impossible standards that Bonnie is made to have on this show, by writers and viewers.

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[–] bluesysax 8 years ago

Damon gave the Cure to Elena and Elena took it, knowing fully well that Damon might choose not to. She even recruited Stefan to change his mind. Nothing about Elena's decisions about the Cure have anything to do with Damon.

No, Elena's decision to take the cure rested ENTIRELY on Damon's decision. It was only after she got her memories back and she recalled doubts in Damon's decision making that she wanted Damon to explore it all properly.
The Elena that took the cure was an Elena taking the cure without her full history intact in her mind.
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Never argue with stupid people,they will drag you down to their level then beat you with experience.

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[–] 8 years ago

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[–] RidiculousPasta 8 years ago

Please tell me why Damon who with his humanity on ripped hearts out of people even former lovers for no real reason deserves a happy human life?

It's not wrong for Bonnie who's sacrificed for these creeps since season 1 to take the cure for herself.

Imagine if you had "friends" who did nothing but take from you and never gave when you needed them. How many times have they left Bonnie languishing? Every single time. They never come through. They give up even they even bother to look for her.

The one time it almost seemed like someone was going to look for her was when Damon found her but it turns out she was just a possible detour and not what he was there for.

They never help her.

I couldn't care less about Damon's happiness. In fact every time I even start to think about it I just see him ripping out the heart of the witch who was his former lover just because he thought she'd tell Elena about his past with her.

Elena has received more support than anyone in the history of humanity. She doesn't need to receive anything else from Bonnie Bennet.

The fact that Bonnie dying was even up in the air just so precious Elena could come back sooner is nothing short of disgusting.

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[–] christinaparker-60256 8 years ago

Is this a response to me? Did you read my actual post?

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[–] 8 years ago

[deleted]

[–] forksforrests 8 years ago

This IS Bonnie taking it away from Elena and Damon for her own selfish gain, for something that barely makes sense (why do these people want to be human!).

It's no more selfish than Elena taking the cure when she knew Stefan, since Day 1, had wanted to turn back human. It's no more selfish than her offering the cure to Damon, who didn't even want to be human, compared to Stefan, who did.

Secondly, Bonnie isn't taking anything away from Delena because it was never theirs to begin with. Maybe it would have been selfish if Elena woke up, Damon got the cure, and then Bonnie took it out of him to give to Enzo. That would be a selfish move. But what she did/planned on doing was not, because the cure never belonged to Delena. Delena isn't even set in stone, considering Damon may still end up dying within these 60 years. Elena may wake up and decide she doesn't even want Damon after hearing what he's done in the 60 years. They're a couple on hold and Bonnie hasn't taken sh-t from them.

Bonnie didn't do the wrong thing because there was no "right" thing to do. Delena aren't OWED happiness/a happy ending. They aren't OWED sacrifices. Why is their happiness more "right" than Bonnie's?? To me, them taking the cure is what's wrong, considering how toxic their relationship is. Bonnie taking the cure for Enzo is the default "right" because of how much she's done for this squad.

A rose is just a rose.

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[–] bluesysax 8 years ago

This IS Bonnie taking it away from Elena and Damon for her own selfish gain, for something that barely makes sense (why do these people want to be human!).

That being said, despite the fact that it was wrong, I think Bonnie is entitled to do the wrong thing once in awhile. She has sacrificed herself numerous times for her friends, for their lives and also for their happiness. So while I think it WAS wrong of Bonnie, I don't think we can really fault her for doing this given the suffering she has endured due to her friends' actions.

Ultimately, Bonnie did do the wrong thing, but in a show where she has been killed like a million times, has sacrificed her happiness for her friends so many times and just generally been *beep* on by everyone, I am not mad.

THIS.
I'm mad now, just like I get mad with Damon and Elena at times.

Never argue with stupid people,they will drag you down to their level then beat you with experience.

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[–] Darrylmurphy 8 years ago

Not exactly fool proof Enzo could have died at any point once mortal, there is nothing saying the cure can be extracted from a corpse, if so why didn't they take it from Elena's ancestor once she was dead? so that way they would have a cure for one of them at that point? also there's nothing saying that the cure could be removed and stored just incase, without resulting in Enzo dying of his advanced age.

Bonnie did retrieve the cure but she also gave it to her friends to use and they did, just because she wants it for herself now doesn't mean she has the right to simply take it.

Imo unless this sort of debate was their intentions the writing was bad and made Bonnie look bad for no real purpose, considering they had all the elements to make it so much smoother a scenario, Bonnie wasn't just going to take the cure but ask Elena if she would be ok with it, iirc the vamps can interact with Elena in her dreams even now right? that was the point of the S6 finale iirc, so Enzo could have dream walked Bonnie in so Bonnie could ask Elena, Elena being her BFF would consent, the big issue everyone has is gone, Bonnie didn't just take it from Elena, she didn't just say screw you to her friends, she asked the one person who could give consent and got it, problem solved even if everything went tits up it was a risk that Elena knew about going in but didn't care, it would also show the bond between them because bonnie couldn't just take what she wanted, which is true to her character, and Elena wouldn't want to deny Bonnie what she wanted either, again true to her character, and cuts out the iffyness about the whole set up.

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[–] christinaparker-60256 8 years ago

Honestly, this whole plot line was just a way to *beep* on Bonnie's character further. I thought it was OOC for her to take it. And I DO think Bonnie is entitled to be selfish if she wants to be, *beep* her friends they have done nothing but screw her over. I just don't think she would have done that.

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[–] jordanjanellejoy 8 years ago

It makes me understand why KG said that sometimes she's read scripts and asked "who the *beep* wrote this *beep* It's garbage"

But I agree. This was a way for Bonnie to be blamed, just like Kai's curse on she and Elena, she's blamed for that as well.

My ass may be dumb, but I ain't no dumbass...

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[–] lindsay-kneece 8 years ago

I don't blame Bonnie for Kai. That was backlash for imprisoning him again which needed to be done. When Bonnie (and Damon for that matter) hatched that plan it wasn't intended to hurt anyone. Bonnie wanting the cure for her and Enzo was the exact opposite. It was making a choice that was going to purposely and negatively affect Damon and Elena. I don't even know why they were trying to make Enzo human while the damn devil was wreaking havoc anyway. How stupid is that?

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[–] christinaparker-60256 8 years ago

It's almost not even worth arguing this because their choices defy logic consistently. Why would ANY of them take the cure at ANY time? They are constantly being bombarded with danger. Taking the cure in the first place was INCREDIBLY selfish of Elena. It put her in a position where she is weak and dependent on the others to risk their lives to save her. Enzo wanting to take it at this time is also not only selfish, its *beep* ridiculous. The literal devil has you in his crosshairs. Maybe wait a decade! We're all arguing with eachother, but at the end of the day it comes down to extremely stupid writing.

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[–] lindsay-kneece 8 years ago

Elena's decision to take the cure at that time, although not the smartest, was more understandable. Kai was gone and Lily was assumed to be under control. There wasn't a threat. The devil is literally setting people on fire and Bonenzo are all "lets take take the cure today!". That is just the dumbest move ever. haha

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[–] Darrylmurphy 8 years ago

Especially when you think what does Cade want most? pure souls that have done bad things, he's condemning people for stealing & infidelity, what do they think may happen if she had screwed over her best friends, harvested the cure from her comatose and defenceless bestie, just so she can have more happiness?

Till this point Bonnie's been the one really good person in that whole town, she sacrificed herself how many times for her friends? But now she's just about tainted her soul, that's not even chumming the waters, that's diving into the ocean 5 feet away from where you just saw Jaws wearing Gaga's meat dress and running through a Blade style blood shower, that's not just stupid it's suicidal.

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[–] lindsay-kneece 8 years ago

that's diving into the ocean 5 feet away from where you just saw Jaws wearing Gaga's meat dress

lol

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[–] imaneassi 8 years ago

Till this point Bonnie's been the one really good person in that whole town

Disagree.Elena and others are very good people too.Stop trying to make Bonnie the best of them

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[–] awesomebamon 8 years ago

But, they are under constant danger. Especially Elena with villains always wanting to go after her.

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[–] lindsay-kneece 8 years ago

Yeah not the smartest but I get it. She wanted to start her human life and that cure could've been stolen by someone if she'd waited. If i were her i would have taken it after I moved away from Mystic Falls/Whitmore.

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[–] imaneassi 8 years ago

Taking the cure was selfish ?Let me remind you that Elrena never wanted to be a vampire and WAS READY TO DIE.She said it herself.But never mind.

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[–] christinaparker-60256 8 years ago

Yes, because she is well aware that her friends will die for her and do anything to protect her. As a human she is 100000x more vulnerable to attack and given that she and her friends are magnets for death and destruction, she took the cure knowing full well people would step into protect her whether she wanted them to or not.

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[–] imaneassi 8 years ago

Oh please. Elena never counted on her friends to die for her.Elena was ready to die ,they decided again for her.Elena never wanted to be a vampire and it sure wasn't the first time they made crucial decisions for her,without her consent.

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[–] orgine 8 years ago

.Elena never wanted to be a vampire and it sure wasn't the first time they made crucial decisions for her, without her consent.

Elena was locked up in a cage all through out her transition and could have easily starved to death if she wanted to. She made the conscious decision to take human blood that had spilled on the floor. She basically lay on her belly, stretched out her spine, scooped the blood and licked her finger tips to get the blood she needed to transition.

Yes, I 100% agree that there are many times that Elena's agency was taken from her. Her decision to transition to a vampire was not one of them. Not by a long shot.

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[–] imaneassi 8 years ago

Really?Stefan had just killed a guy for her to complete her transition, that's how much he didn't want her to die.She didn't do it for herself. Elena didn't want to be a vampire, hated to be one.

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[–] orgine 8 years ago

And so? She didn't have to almost dislocate her shoulder to get the blood. She could have let it go. We know it's possible. Carolines dad chose not to transition.

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[–] TaylorBruh25 8 years ago

Well that's straight up false, half of the mains are terrible people, I'm one of the biggest Stefan Salvatore fans on this board, but dude has a giant scorecard on his road to Hell. The fact that he himself TRIES to be good is why I like the guy so much. Atonement is a hell of a attribute to me.

Bonnie Bennett IS a good person, I don't know how you can argue a instance where she's generalized as bad as The Brothers, Elena, Caroline, Enzo, and even Alaric.

Matt would kill a 100 innocent Supernaturals to save Penny and I'd bet my house on it.

Jeremy's a good person I guess as well along with Tyler who wanted to do good.

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[–] imaneassi 8 years ago

Except that neither Elena or Caroline are bad and the fact that you try to make them bad to make Bonnie look like the good one is pathetic.

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[–] forksforrests 8 years ago

 great points, and I 100% share your frustration

A rose is just a rose.

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