MovieChat Forums > The Wild and Wonderful Whites of West Virginia (2010) Discussion > Question About Social Security Payments

Question About Social Security Payments

posted 14 years ago by DrGerbil
38 replies | jump to latest

First of all, I want to start out by saying that I could not understand everything said by the various family members, and I may have missed quite a few things.

However, I did hear that the elder Mr. White at some point decided to "work the system" and got a number of his children on Social Security disability payments.

Social Security is quite difficult to get, and it has been my experience that, if a person is receiving SSI, they are most probably legitimately disabled in some way, either mentally, physically, or both.

Now, I am not sure what is wrong with these people; Fetal Alcohol Syndrome was mentioned, and I think that's probably true; also inbreeding, which can cause retardation. Most of the people interviewed seem to have pretty serious impulse control issues, which could indicate Attention Deficit Disorder, or some sort of personality disorder.

My point is, very few of these folks seem fit to be in the work force, and therefore, they would be considered legitimately disabled. If they're legitimately disabled, and legitimately receiving SSI, how is this "working" the system? I'm not suggesting that I approve of this family's behavior, but what is the alternative? As appalling as these people are, they at least should have something to eat and a place to live.

I hate to see this entire family living at taxpayer expense, but it seems that very few of them are capable of contributing to society. I wish there was a way to prevent them from using government monies to buy booze and recreational drugs.

[–] jayochem 14 years ago

I disagree with your comment about "they at least should have something to eat and a place to live". In this situation, I think we just need to prune the family from the gene pool. When an entire family, multiple generations and branches, contribute NOTHING to the economy...they are a cancer...and should not be encouraged to milk the system.

[–] headr68 12 years ago

You sound like Hitler... "prune the family from the gene pool"??? In every society there are people at all levels of the economic & socioeconomic spectrum. What gives you the right to decide how people live? Because you have paid some taxes...blah blah blah... You and your family will get the majority of those dollars back in the form of Social Security payments and Medicare. Who made you the "Decider"? You are more dangerous than these people.

[–] joshuayeary 12 years ago

Thank you.

[–] joshuayeary 12 years ago

So our freedom to merely have food and shelter is based solely on our contribution to society? Man, that's a blurry line you are drawing.

[–] austinman 11 years ago

Perhaps, but the idea that one should be rewarded because you choose to do drugs all day is an interesting Pavlovian theory; I'm not sure how well it would work as an economic framework. And as a taxpayer, using my limited funds to insure that the Whites can stay stoned on a generational level seems...unwise.

[–] UnaDahmer666 14 years ago

maybe more people in WV would work if you could get a job there that doesn't involve working in a dangerous coal mine for minimum wage, or working at mcdonalds. if you can even get THOSE jobs it's so bad.

drive around rural WV, it looks like a 3rd world country. there isn't any other options for people sometimes, you gotta do what you gotta do to survive.

it's not like they're living in mansions or anything, social security doesn't pay THAT much.

the government created places like this by allowing foreign interest groups to basically own areas of the US.

so waaah dude, they don't have to work and you do.

get over it

[–] austinman 11 years ago

maybe more people in WV would work

you mean there are no buses or trains or airplanes to get the Whites somewhere else?
There are NO roads that lead out of WV???
Lord, it's got to be a really backward state.

They do have a car though, right?
I saw them use it to resale the drugs and to spread the news that "CPS took her baby"
Couldn't they use that asset to relocate themselves to where the jobs are?

[–] UnaDahmer666 14 years ago

"I wish there was a way to prevent them from using government monies to buy booze and recreational drugs."

what this really means -

"i'm so worried about what everyone else is doing that i feel we should be actively infringing on people's rights and their personal lives. hell, why don't we just set up cameras in their house that have a live feed to the police station. if we don't stop the whites now, who knows where all this pill-snorting business could end? i mean they're getting high man, HIGH!"

[–] Tracey73 13 years ago

"i'm so worried about what everyone else is doing that i feel we should be actively infringing on people's rights and their personal lives. hell, why don't we just set up cameras in their house that have a live feed to the police station.

I could not care less what an adult does in their own home ... except when they are living off the taxpayers' money. These people are not "disabled" in any way. They are lazy scum who keeps breeding so they can keep milking the government (aka us taxpayers).

There are legitimate people who are truly disabled and need help. They abide by the laws. They don't abuse their drugs. They don't keep having babies they cannot afford to take care of. They don't snort drugs, curse, smoke pot, talk about killing someone in front of children.

I'm reaching for the life within me. How can one man stop his ending. ~ Blue October

[–] joshuayeary 12 years ago

Don't say the "taxpayers" when you really just mean yourself. You only care when it affects you, your concern isn't for other people. Because if it were, you would have some concern for the Whites, and what got them in this situation in the first place. The coal companies took advantage of people in the mountains because they had almost a monopoly on jobs in the area, so instead of paying them with government issued currency, they made their own, that could only be spent at stores they owned, and that was worth far less than real money. The movie explained that their father made the conscious decision to start exploiting Social Security simply to survive (you may have missed that part, as the blood in your eyes and the steam from your ears from the outrage over this family living the way they do may have made it hard to focus). These people then grew up only knowing that way of life. They've gotten a check once a month since they were kids, it just makes perfect sense to them.

It's these companies taking advantage of people that started this downward spiral, and only a few people have been strong enough to climb out of it. Meanwhile, the coal companies ruin lives and blow the tops off mountains, and then sit back with fat pockets and chuckle to themselves.

[–] dorseybelle 12 years ago

Pruning them from the gene pool (mixed metaphors)........prune them from their family tree. Did anyone notice that family tree has only one limb? Talk about inbreeding!

And you sittin' there waitin' for him, just like a spider.

[–] austinman 11 years ago

you would have some concern for the Whites

None, actually.
Notice the sane "Whites" make the personal decision to simply move away from the insanity and become functional citizens.
But since you're so concerned I'd suggest that you write the drunk "whites" a personal check.
Better make it a large one.
'Cause the weekend is a coming and the Whites want to PARTY!
Oh & FYI you better make it a weekly check, cause the party never really ends.

Personally i'd kinda rather spend money on people whose problems aren't entirely self-inflicted; vets who have been blown apart, poor kids with cancer etc.

[–] badmofo6662004 14 years ago

Oh please. I consider myself a "liberal," but there was nothing wrong with these people other than a bad upbringing and drug abuse. Furthermore, the system is acting as the "enabler" of their behavior. I'd bet these people use their medical benefits to get their "free" prescription drugs from "pill-mills." Then, they do half of them, and sell the rest to buy their nice vehicles and whatever. If you think because the way they talk, they're retarded, you're wrong. Almost everybody in the region talks like that. It's just an regional accent/dialect, not a sign of retardation. I find your claims of inbreeding offensive, and despite popular belief, inbreeding has only a small effect on chances of defects.

The only problem of them getting into the workforce, is there's not enough work in that region for everybody. They "could" work in a coal mine, but those jobs are few (due to technological advancements), and are hard to get. Even the few fast-food jobs down there are hard to get. There's virtually no jobs in that region.

[–] iangrushka 14 years ago

I agree with the OP in that they're not really "working the system" if the government gave it to them, but some of them were able bodied people. You don't think Pony was getting SSI checks? And now he's a perfectly respectable part of a work force. They're only crazy and on pills because they CHOOSE to be. That's working the system, so .. it goes both ways I guess :D

[–] whitecats 14 years ago

Just because the system can be worked, doesn't mean it should. See: Tragedy of the Commons. SSI is for people who are truly disabled. Closing the loophole will screw over a lot of legitimately disabled people.

/full disclosure - my sister receives SSI and she is NOT disabled, merely lazy

[–] iangrushka 14 years ago

Is your sister hot?

[–] 14 years ago

[deleted]

[–] MrAleisterCrowley 12 years ago

Whitecats, I have no idea what your sister's situation is in truth, obviously. However, to receive SSD (disability payments from the SSA), one has to go through a strict medical review. This means: a physician (a real M.D.) must verify that your sister has a serious, medically verifiable disability that prevents her from ANY employment.

Then there is a minimum of a six-month wait (during which the applicant cannot work) while the file is reviewed by the SSA, including a medical review of the applicant's file. Then the disabled person receives a payment of approx. $800 a month (yes that is the total amount) and access to medicare. That is hardly a grand lifestyle. IF they are approved (most are not) then they are "reviewed" every three years.

[–] egggoboom 12 years ago

Note: The access to Medicare is available after 2 years on SSI.

[–] insick 11 years ago

You are EXACTLY correct. It's not hard to fake a disability and pull one over to receive it. You just milk your ailments, mental or physical, while seeing your doctor, then apply for benefits. If one acts like they can't function due to their life debilitating anxiety for example, then there's a chance one may actually get approved. Trust me, this happens all the time, while you have folks in wheelchairs getting denied. I see it every day.

[–] rdpepper 13 years ago

That got me mad as hell. There are people who can't get SSI, but they seem to have the scam down. If they would stop spending all their money on pills, booze and cigarettes, they wouldn't need the government handout.

Even if you live in a craphole, you can get online educations if you want to, you can even work online and it doesn't matter where you are from. If someone can sit on the computer surfing porn all day, they can fold envelopes or find something to earn some money for themselves. I don't think the cost of living is too high there.

[–] s_dot_3 13 years ago

crazy checks are easy to get. get some quack in your town to diagnose your kid with adhd and watch the checks come rolling in. it's the new welfare.

Why do we warn of spoilers, isn't that the chance you take going to a site like imdb?

[–] daisygirlie 13 years ago

The following post is not meant to be an insult, nor a pity part for myself - just stating some facts :)

Seeing how the Whites were certified as kids - it was probably easier 20-30 years ago - just don't jump up and shout that any kid with ADHD's suddenly gonna get a magic SSI check (for those who don't know, for kids it's SSI not SSDI because they haven't worked and earned work credits which is how they base your SSDI amount).

I did hate seeing that it was so simple for them and how the dad milked the system. I'd say probably 1/4 or so of people on SSI (before retirement age) and about the same number on SSDI don't really deserve it - and that makes it so people like me get stuck in the system for YEARS because it's so backed up.

I do, however, think some of the Whites meet the requirements for "mental" disability (based on their mannerisms, rage, etc), even though they look "physically fit" to work. Sometimes a disability is "invisible."

I'm legitimately disabled (you wouldn't know it by just seeing me) and I've been fighting for SSDI for almost 6 years now! You don't just get to get a Dr. to say you're crazy, or have certain ailments - they have independent shrinks and doctors they send you to who have to certify you themselves. Trust me - not easy. I have multiple physical disabilities as well as mental (severe PTSD/anxiety attacks from an assault) and I finally get a hearing with a judge...sometime in the next year...and it's through video conferencing.

I worked from the day I turned 16, through college, and beyond. I still worked when I got married and my husband's salary was more than enough. I could finally work a job (full time), and I did for almost 8 years (who wouldn't love working at Borders?). I was forced to stop due to my disabilities at age 34, but I paid into the system and I deserve to receive SSDI because I'm only getting back what I paid into the system.

[–] s_dot_3 13 years ago

daisygirlie, i have seen it first hand how people are taking advantage of crazy checks for their kids and how certain doctors sign off without a second thought or accurate or thorough examination. it is unfortunate that someone who truly needs it must fight for disability or go without.

Why do we warn of spoilers, isn't that the chance you take going to a site like imdb?

[–] daisygirlie 13 years ago

s_dot_3 - that makes me sad for the kids in a way.

Imagine being told, "You're going to the Dr now and you have to act the way I told you or we won't have the money to get you that video game you wanted!" Or God only knows what else like, "We won't have any food this month and no heat!" - guilt trip much? Those kids are gonna have to put on an act like a show pony in some instances. It makes me sick that the *parents* are SO messed up that they're willing to actually screw with their kids heads...to get them checks because "they're not right in the head"

Not to mention the constant pressure and strain on the kids because they're on multiple prescriptions for something they don't really have! Sometimes all the medications eventually leave them screwed in the head forever in the end! - ugh :(

[–] s_dot_3 13 years ago

It is very sad. Some of the mothers actually charge their kids rent and deduct it form their checks. The kids (teenagers) get a hundred or two to play around with for the month and that's that. None of it goes towards medicine, counseling, or any other needed services. Then you have people who need and would use the assistance who can't seem to get it. I watched my father-n-law fight for over two years to get disability. He is in constant pain and can hardly walk. Shame on those who take from those in need.

Why do we warn of spoilers, isn't that the chance you take going to a site like imdb?

[–] Tracey73 13 years ago

I watched my father-n-law fight for over two years to get disability. He is in constant pain and can hardly walk.

Yep, same thing with my dad ... took him over 4 years to get approved, which is why it makes me so angry when perfectly healthy people can scam the system.

I'm reaching for the life within me. How can one man stop his ending. ~ Blue October

[–] insick 11 years ago

Not only that, but I've seen tons that are lucky to receive even a penny of their "disability" checks and the parents take all of it.

[–] rdpepper 13 years ago

I have also been trying to get SSI for a number of years due to injuries from a car accident and fibromyalgia.

I had the video conference and it was a joke, the judge had his mind made up before I even went in the room. He actually wrote he didn't see that I had a limp when it was literally a step and a half into the room and he saw me on a small monitor. He also said I didn't appear to be in pain. The doctors I spoke to who specialize in pain said that was crazy since everyone deals with pain differently. The hearing was a joke, the only way you have a chance is to get a lawyer. The Whites seem to be able to get around pretty easily and go to bars and obtain drugs on a regular basis, there is no reason they can't so something.

[–] BelleCBelle 12 years ago

This discussion seems to be missing an important point or perhaps I missed the discussion of it? If the White extended family is so poor, how can they afford all of the drugs and alcohol and cigarettes they consume? I know from past personal experience that the lifestyle they live is expensive.

Also, none of those children have any, any hope of growing up to be moral, ethical and productive citizens in their current circumstances. My heart hurt when the "tough" little boy (sorry, I am no good remembering names) who's mom just had the baby - they were at the park after she came back from rehab and he asked her if she would play with him, because she never had. And right then, right then, he was not the tough kid who kept saying *beep* and giving everyone the finger anymore, he was a little boy with a breaking heart. But with a mother like her, he is most likely lost, and that is what broke MY heart about this movie. The children, who had no choices about the lifestyles they had to live.

http://etsy.com/shop/MimiLovesCrochet#/

[–] insick 11 years ago

Very true and sad. What others also don't seem to realize is that not being able to find work, is not the purpose for disability benefits. You have to be DISABLED, not simply unemployed and not able to find a job. That is an entirely different gov't assistance benefit. I mention this because I keep reading how difficult it is to find work in the area where the Whites reside, as though that is a legitimate reason to receive SSD.

[–] 11 years ago

[deleted]

[–] insick 11 years ago

Yep sdot3, that's pretty much how it works in a nutshell.

[–] dtechba 13 years ago

SSI is not very difficult to get at all. There have been multiple studies demonstrating rampant fraud in the system. Where there is a will there will be fraud.

[–] sailorman13 11 years ago

SSI is quite difficult to get and you have to be recertified every couple years. If it wasn't so difficult, there wouldn't be 5000 law firms specializing in getting people approved. There also wouldn't be a half-dozen posts in this thread from people who are legitimately disabled and have been waiting years for approval.

There have NOT been "multiple studies" demonstrating rampant fraud. That is utter BS. The most reliable studies have figured that there is a fraud rate in the SS system (including SSI and SSDI) of less than 2%. The vast majority of that is perpetrated by vendors (i.e. convenience stores that trade $10 worth of beer for a $20 EBT charge). Most fraud is NOT in the form of ineligible people collecting SSI or SSDI.

[–] insick 11 years ago

Here is a link to case studies involving fraudulent SSI & SSDI cases that the poster you're replying to was referring to. These cases are in fact, dealing with those who collect and do not involve vendors. http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/CHRG-111shrg63828/pdf/CHRG-111shrg63828.pdf

There are COUNTLESS cases of this nature of discussion that I see on a daily basis. I do a great deal of work in this specific area. Basically, what I do as a contractor for this specific job, is conduct psychological testing, IQ, Woodcock Johnson, WMS (memory testing), TOMMS (malingering testing etc) as I am a clinical mental health counselor and certified psychological tester. The gentleman who owns the practice I contract with, is a clinical psychologist who works as an independent psychologist for the state, to conduct MSE's and evaluate those who are applying for SSDI. We do not make the decision/determination of benefits, only relay our results of the testing and professional opinions on the client's condition. I have also included below, two articles from both Forbes & Washington Times, discussing statistical data gathered through several case studies, which reveal fraudulent SSI & SSID claims, explain why it is difficult, yet so easy in other cases to be approved for benefits, and the overall process, including oversights and pitfalls. I hope you find this information helpful or interesting.

http://p.washingtontimes.com/news/2012/sep/12/judging-of-disability-claims-flawed-senate-study-f/?page=all

http://www.forbes.com/sites/richardfinger/2013/01/14/fraud-and-disability-equal-a-multibillion-dollar-balck-hole-for-taxpayers/

[–] kb01 11 years ago

However, I did hear that the elder Mr. White at some point decided to "work the system" and got a number of his children on Social Security disability payments.

I live in West Virginia...

While it can be exceedingly difficult to get on SSI for those who are legitimately injured or sick, there is a cottage industry here of lawyers and doctors who are very good at working with patients who have medical issues that are incredibly difficult to disprove. The pain pill epidemic is linked to the problem.

In terms of children, it's essentially the same thing but with learning disabilities. Many parents know exactly how to coach their kids to do this. It's not all that uncommon to hear absolutely gut wrenching stories like this:

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/12/09/opinion/sunday/kristof-profiting-from-a-childs-illiteracy.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0