After everything that has happened...(SPOILERS) - Prisoners (2013) Discussion

[–] goleafsgo27 10 years ago

Interesting question. The Dover family were not wealthy, but with the help of outsiders they might get a strong enough legal team to convincingly argue some sort of temporary insanity. He could even wrangle an acquittal or a plea deal with a few years of jail time. Our legal system can be fickle: We've seen well more than 100 innocent people spend years on death row while OJ Simpson walked free.

I have seen enough to know I have seen too much. -- ALOTO

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[–] Fawkes_Rocks 10 years ago

True. I like to think he got some type of probation and nothing more. But if jail time no more than a year or two. I'm sure Jackman's character would be alright spending two years in jail knowing his daughter was okay.

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[–] 10 years ago

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[–] Sugarminx 10 years ago

Detective Loki could have checked the noise, as much as he could not. Even though i think he went to check it, he might have not been able to listen to it again (as i said, maybe there wasn't a next time)

Nah. I think Jackman was definitely saved (or at least found). The sound of the whistle is heard. Jake notices and then he turns in the direction of the car.

If the director wanted to give the impression that Jackman was left there to die, he could have done the following:

- Not have the whistle sound.
- Have the whistle but Jake takes no notice.
- Jake hears the whistle, shrugs and walks away.

I think it's a pretty clear indication that he was going to go looking for Jackman by the way he turned in that direction.

So put some spice in my sauce, honey in my tea, an ace up my sleeve and a slinkyplanb

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[–] 10 years ago

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[–] emmamaria 10 years ago

No, there was no ambiguity in the ending at all!

Loki knew about Anna's whistle. He knew that Joy said that they found it but also that Anna's mom Grace had to buy a new one because her old one was not at home.

Loki is very clever, he would have connected the whistle to Keller immediately in his head and realised quickly that it was Keller or at the very least another child using Anna's whistle to call for help.

The director made sure to add all those conversations about the whistle and he made sure that Loki heard the whistle 3-4 times at least.

He definitely left no ambiguity in the situation that Keller was meant to be rescued.

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[–] pixelpops 10 years ago

There was definitely ambiguity.

I would agree with you if the director showed that he took a step forward, but he didn't.
It just showed Loki hearing the whistle. We're left thinking "did he save him or leave him in the hole?"

Personally, I think he saved him. He's not the type to leave loose ends.

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[–] bsharporflat 10 years ago

There was definitely ambiguity.

I would agree with you if the director showed that he took a step forward, but he didn't.
It just showed Loki hearing the whistle. We're left thinking "did he save him or leave him in the hole?"

Personally, I think he saved him. He's not the type to leave loose ends.

Exactly right, pixelpops. If there was to be no intended ambiguity then we would have been shown Dover getting rescued. But we aren't.

Yes, Loki is portrayed as a good person. No doubt. But what is the RIGHT thing to do in that situation?

The OP is being silly. Of COURSE Dover will be brought up on charges of Kidnapping, Torture and Felonious Assault. I doubt Dover was ever intending to released the kid. So I think Attempted Murder would be charged also. That's 10-20 years in prison for each charge.

Remember how the film develops Keller Dover as an independent, freedom-loving, self-sufficient kind of guy? Remember the opening scene is hunting deer with his son. Getting one's own food. Self-employed. Doing everything for himself.

How is a guy like that going to do facing the rest of his life in prison? Fed three bad meals a day. Ordered around constantly. Permission needed just to use the bathroom. How would Keller Dover's family react to seeing him imprisoned like that forever? They even had a scene of Loki discussing the chance of Dover being imprisoned with Dover's wife. We were supposed to think about that.

It had been days. Dover had to be near death down in the pit and Loki had to know that when he heard the weak whistle. Can we be ABSOLUTELY sure Keller Dover didn't consider the humane thing MIGHT be to leave Dover and let him die a more dignified (and deserved) death as a prisoner in the hole than spending the rest of his life in prison?

We can't be sure. The real question isn't whether Loki REALLY did leave him in the pit. The real question is only whether Loki THOUGHT about doing that. And I think he did.

Who knows. Maybe a jury would let Dover off with a wrist slap. Only a year in prison or something like that. Loki probably thought about that too. But was rescuing him the morally correct thing to do after what Dover had done to that kid? The writer made sure we knew it was Loki who found the kid, naked, bloody, beaten to a pulp, scalded by hot water and locked in a wooden torture chamber. Only Loki saw first hand what Dover had done.

A million things must have been running through Loki's mind at that moment. There was nobody else there. Only him. No chance of someone finding out, of him losing his job or being arrested himself.

The film is named "Prisoners". We are meant to keep that idea in mind for ALL the characters. We are meant to understand that Loki leaving Dover in the hole, just as Dover had left the kid in the torture chamber, was at least one of the thoughts going through Loki's mind in that moment. There is no other reason to leave the scene unfinished, as it was.

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[–] DrDanielChallis 9 years ago

best description of the film's intent to date imo - ambiguity indeed

what isn't discussed enough is that all involved are prisoners of the circumstance / outcomes of the kidnappings - they will never be able to get out of their new life and go back to the one they had before the kidnappings

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[–] psdhart 9 years ago

best description of the film's intent to date imo - ambiguity indeed

agreed

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[–] baj2 9 years ago

I posted this on another thread ( "wtf") and I was hoping it would give a clearer picture of the intent of the ending.

Was the movie faithful to the original script re the ending?

I hope they don't mind if I reprint this last part of the script, simply to reinforce the current discussion --

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Tech 2 shuts off the radio and follows his cohort into the house. Loki hangs back. It's dead quiet now.

Loki walks around the yard. He takes a closer look at the Trans Am, staring into its gutted interior, thinking...

He walks back towards the house, looking bothered by something, his mind grinding gears...

He takes a last look at the moonlit yard, then turns around about to enter the house-- when he hears something...

It's very faint but almost sounds like a whistle. Loki turns around. Could have been the wind, but...

There it is again. It's coming from the Trans Am.

Loki walks through the snow to the Trans Am, dread blossoming in his eyes. He hears the whistle again and picks up the pace, almost there as we

FADE TO BLACK

The End.

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This sounds as if Loki was on the way to finding Keller... but did the movie deliberately miss out the scene described in the last 2 sentences ( before Fading To Black) of the original script?

Maybe some did actually appreciate this scene in the movie but maybe it caught a few unaware of the intent?

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[–] SisterSuzy101 (367) 3 years ago

I doubt Dover was ever intending to released the kid. So I think Attempted Murder would be charged also. That's 10-20 years in prison for each charge.

-No. Dover explicitly stated that he doesn't want to have to hurt Alex. He begged him to tell of the whereabouts of Anna and promised to stop torturing him if he did. During their last encounter, there are tears in Dover's eyes and he begs him and finally, he gives Dover important information and Keller stops torturing him. Dover's mind was not on killing. It was only on his daughter.

Once rescued, Dover would more likely get charged with Kidnapping and Aggravated Battery rather than Attempted murder. And said charges that would not land him life in prison - especially given the circumstances.

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[–] svalinanikola 8 years ago

Yeah, he'll go to jail, I have no idea for how long. But I don't think he'll mind it, the children are safe, that's what he cared abuot.

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[–] LetoAtreides (577) 3 years ago

He would have been given a short sentence for sure, but he had a lot of mitigating circumstances and was also a victim of his daughter's abducter. Public opinion and a jury would be 100% of his side.

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