it was an ok movie till they brought the 'Lesbian' angle into it...why on earth would Julianne have sex with Chloe? she's a married straight woman who is angry that her husband is cheating..if it were me, Sex would be the farest thing from my mind.
shareI think Catherine was in love with Chloe. But her bourgeois hangups wouldn't allow her to admit it.
P. A. T. (Needy's Boy)
Catherine was not in love with Chloe. Catherine was in love with her husband. After reading many of your other posts I feel you missed the entire point of the movie.
To answer the OP's question about why Catherine had sex with Chloe...it was because she wanted to feel closer to her husband that she felt she had lost. She could give a damn about Chloe! Watch the scene again. Catherine wants Chloe to touch her the way she thinks her husband touches Chloe, because Catherine misses that feeling. She misses her husband.
tinkertippy writes:
"After reading many of your other posts I feel you missed the entire point of the movie."
On the contrary, I feel that you have missed the point.
"To answer the OP's question about why Catherine had sex with Chloe...it was because she wanted to feel closer to her husband..."
But Catherine is not closer to David at the end. Symbolically, Catherine and David are far apart at the end -- that's why they are on separate sides of the room. Does Catherine cross the room and embrace David? No, she does not. Does David cross the room and kiss Catherine? No, he does not. When David looks at Catherine, his smile fades. And then, Egoyan has Catherine turn her back on David. As I've said before, this is not the body language of a couple whose marriage has been revitalized. This is not how a director would visually depict a couple in love.
"I think it's time to see Amanda sticking guns in people's faces."
There is no way possible to explain to you how incorrect you are, because you refuse to see outside your own twisted views on the end of this movie. Your way of looking at everything "symbolically" is the main problem. It is obvious that you do not understand body language or the concept of a happy married couple.
"But, Catherine is not closer to David at the end. Symbolically, Catherine and David are far apart at the end--that's why they are on separate sides of the room.Does Catherine cross the room and embrace David? No, she does not. Does David cross the room and kiss Catherine? No, he does not."
Seriously? The eye contact between Catherine, David, and their son shows their new understanding for each other. They're hosting something at their home...why would they be right under each other the whole time? When Catherine tells David about Chloe, and they embrace is when you realize they have been brought back together, so there is no need for them to be all over each other at the end.
"When David looks at Catherine, his smile fades."
His smile fades because they are sharing a serious moment... reflecting on the secret between them. Also he is acknowledging their son.
"And then, Egoyan has Catherine turn her back on David."
She turns her back on him as a way for audience to notice the hairpiece she is wearing. It is their way of showing thanks to Chloe for bringing them back together.
"I've said before, this is not the body language of a couple whose marriage has been revitalized. This is not how a director would visually depict a couple in love."
The director has already shown you that the marriage has been revitalized when Catherine confesses to David, and they embrace one another.
Now back to my original statement!
"To answer the OP's question about why Catherine had sex with Chloe...it was because she wanted to feel closer to her husband..."
This is shown when Catherine ask Chloe to touch her the way David "supposedly" touches Chloe. And is further addressed with the conversation Chloe and Catherine share when leaving the hotel room where Chloe and David supposedly had sex. And is also the reason Catherine gets turned on when hearing Chloe's stories about David, she is visualizing her husband!
tinkertippy writes:
"The director has already shown you that the marriage has been revitalized when Catherine confesses to David, and they embrace one another."
Except, David didn't repent for his sins, just as Don Giovanni didn't repent!
Yeah symbolism tells us nothing!
In a film, everything has meaning.
Why do you think David is lecturing on Don Giovanni?
Why do you think David is in the dark all the time? When he says he didn't have drinks with Miranda? When he "reconciles" with Catherine?
Why does David go back to work after the "reconciliation"?
Why does Catherine put her hair up at the end, when she had let it down to be more attractive to David?
Why did Egoyan remove the "happy family" portrait of David, Catherine, and Michael at the end of the script and replace it with the distance between the characters?
"And is also the reason Catherine gets turned on when hearing Chloe's stories about David, she is visualizing her husband!"
How do you know that?
Chloe is in the fantasy too! Maybe it is Chloe that turns Catherine on. Who was Catherine looking at longingly from her office window when the movie began?
Oh, and I don't recommend cheating on your partner and then wearing the gift from your illicit lover in front of the partner with whom you wish to reconcile. And marriage councilors don't recommend it either. Kinda rubs salt into the wounds, especially if the partner knows who gave the gift to you. And David must have known.
"I think it's time to see Amanda sticking guns in people's faces."
You are reading ENTIRELY too much into things!!! And the sad part is you believe so strongly in your incorrect views.
David DID NOT cheat on Catherine.
Your entire argument on how Chloe is a Christ symbol so she can't lie is rubbish! If this is true that also would mean he had sex with Chloe as she claimed! He didn't, so Chloe LIED.
Your attention to symbolism in this movie is OVER THE TOP!
Catherine has her hair up at the end because it is symbolizing her appreciation for what Chloe did for her family.
Egoyan removed the "happy family" portrait from the end of the film because it wouldn't be realistic after all they had been through. He still needed to show that they were on the road to recovery. Real life is not rainbows and unicorns.
I know she is visualizing her husband because IT'S IN THE MOVIE. Her main focus is always on David.
And looking longingly...seriously???
David and Catherine had gotten past the affair, because they both knew where it stemmed from...the distance in their marriage. They are both mature intelligent adults that have the capacity to look at the bigger picture. It's not as if Catherine meet a girl at a bar, had sex with her, and then wore the hairpiece. She met a girl, hired her to seduce her husband, felt as if she had lost her husband, missed her husband, had sex with the girl to feel closer to her husband, confessed her betrayal to her husband, grew closer to her husband, the girl dies trying to get her back while she is trying to tell the girl that she is in love with her husband, and then she wears the hairpiece. Their story was A LOT deeper than simply, "cheating."
If you still choose to ignore my points there is nothing I can do for you. And there is no reason for us to continue this conversation. I am done.
tinkertippy writes:
"Your entire argument on how Chloe is a Christ symbol so she can't lie is rubbish! If this is true that also would mean he had sex with Chloe as she claimed! He didn't, so Chloe LIED."
No. Chloe does not lie. Her stories are analogous to parables. My interpretation is called ALLEGORY. It is not rubbish. But your knowledge of cinema is rubbish. Chloe is an homage to Pasolini's Teorema. Both films share the theme of the emptiness of bourgeois values. Both are about how the bourgeoisie have lost touch with the sacred.
"Catherine has her hair up at the end because it is symbolizing her appreciation for what Chloe did for her family."
Catherine puts her hair up because she no longer cares what David thinks. Catherine has been revived by Chloe's love, not David's. That's why the camera returns to the bed in the hotel and the greenhouse. David was never in those places. But those places -- the bedroom and the gardens -- are places of archetypical sacredness.
The love Catherine reconnects with is a spiritual love. That's why Chloe in her death scene is associated with Christ iconography.
Sorry if that upsets you. But that's what the symbolism tells us.
Oh, and YOU INGORED my question about David's lecture on Don Giovanni. In this opera, a notorious lothario refuses to repent for his transgressions and in the end, he is dragged down to hell. Not an association a filmmaker would normally attach to an innocent man.
In fact, YOU IGNORED most of my questions. This conversation is over because YOU CAN'T answer them. You came here with a closed mind, like a troll, and immediately attacked ("And the majority of you can't get past your personal views on cheating, homosexuality, religion, and marriage to see the movie for its true cinematic value.") any interpretation that didn't fit your rather narrow take on the film -- I won't even call it an interpretation because it is really only a synopsis. You never wanted to discuss this film, and I don't recall any insight into "its true cinematic value," that you shared.
"I think it's time to see Amanda sticking guns in people's faces."
I didn't ignore your questions, but you did ignore many of my statements, although it's really not important to me. I used a blanket statement in response to many of your questions. I will also use one now...YOU'RE READING TOO MUCH INTO EVERYTHING! If we apply ALLEGORY to any and everything we see we could come to many seriously exaggerated ideas. Ideas that the original authors and directors never intended for their works. The idea that Chloe cannot lie is rubbish, in my opinion. And then relating her lies to parables as a way to confirm your idea that she is not lying--is reaching, in my opinion.
I'm not upset, because I expressed my opinions, and I'm content. This conversation isn't over because I can't answer your questions, it's over because I there's no point in answering them. I know we're not going to get anywhere, so what's the point in continuing this conversation. Especially, when you simply respond to my responses by going down another path. This could go on for days, and it's not that serious. Anyone could interpret the "symbols" in this movie to fit their own view points. This does not mean their view on the "symbolism" in the movie is correct or incorrect.
I have my opinions, and you have yours. I do not agree with your opinions, and I doubt I ever will. And you will never agree with mine, so there you have it.
I came here with a open mind, and was quite excited to discuss this film, but with the exception of a few, I found many close-minded people. I then commented on how I felt about my findings, and wanted to know if there were other that felt as I did. I then found another forum to discuss the film, so I doubt you would know anything that I have shared. You are the one that has a narrow view on this film and totally rejects anyone else's views.
And, it seems that you attempt to talk condescendingly to others that do not share your views which demonstrates your closed mindedness. I find no need to attempt to bring you down, or call you names, because it's unnecessary. There is no reason for me to attack you as a person because we do not agree.
Now, Goodbye.
tinkertippy writes:
"I came here with a open mind..."
This is one of the first things I read from you on this board:
Mostly, due to the fact that almost everyone here has the story WRONG!
by tinkertippy (Sat Sep 24 2011 00:31:25)
I agree completely. Well said and good observation. Plus remember, Catherine was not only completely in love with her hubby but was also still terribly attracted to him. Remember her saying to him that she's getting older and when men get older it adds to their character - every new line on his face was making him more attractive, etc, etc...so she was very attracted to him and knew he was a very good looking man but her insecurities within herself were pushing him away - she thought he saw what she saw when she looked in the mirror but he assured her that he has never been unfathful, even tho tempted. She was envious of Chloe's youth and figure.
At the end of the film I didn't think they needed to be within touching distance of each other. Their newly emerged closeness was evident in the eye contact that she, hubby and son made.