MovieChat Forums > Luftslottet som sprängdes (2010) Discussion > Question for someone in Sweden about cou...

Question for someone in Sweden about court scenes.

posted 13 years ago by mitsub001-1
11 replies | jump to latest

It seemed ridiculous to me that any court in the world would allow someone who is being accused of attempted murder (with a sharp object nonetheless) and is supposedly crazy (and should be committed to a mental facility) would be allowed to have and wear an outfit covered in metal chains and spikes. That was a stupid scene among many in my opinion. Am I wrong?

Marion Cotillard, Keira Knightley and Alizee are the most beautiful women on Earth.

[–] beja-4 13 years ago

Yes, I think you are. I really can't remember if this was just a hearing or a trial, doesn't really matter since the legal system in Sweden doesn't have a jury but as far as I remember it was a trial. And in this case regarding the proceedings about Lisbeth's mental competency and the case of the murder of three people. So the trial was delt with in a closed court.

And what would she have done with the metal chains and spikes? Everyone, including the prosecutor knew Lisbeth was just "dressing up" to provoke. It was her way of showing "her comes what you think is a a crazy person" but when the questions came and the answers and than later Giannini's evidences everyone was quite taken. I really don't think they were afraid for one second and I certainly don't think it's a stupid scene.

[–] tHe_cRacKfOx 13 years ago

and exactly as described in the book.
any way, what's she going to do? hold them all hostage with a safety pin.....

you are all that matters and i love you till the day i die.....

[–] mwb1100 13 years ago

And what would she have done with the metal chains and spikes?

Hurt someone?

Remember that her mental capacity was under evaluation. People who are mentally unstable may not always act rationally.

[–] beja-4 13 years ago

Are you serious, hurt someone? She would've taken off her necklace, climbed across the court room and scratch it against Teleborian's face or what? Or hold them hostage with the necklace? Please.

I've already said that everyone, including the prosecutor knew Lisbeth was just "dressing up" to provoke. They've had already met her in interrogations before the trial, dressed in a hood jacket and a pair of sweat pants. Without any make-up whatsoever. The policewoman who acually was in her cell while Lisbeth got dressed just sighed and asked her if she was ready for the trial.

Watch this clip. Does the prosecutor looks frightened?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=trrb6yFaGII&list=FLFF_2W08eMbLXhk6N sWzQ2g&index=114&feature=plpp_video

[–] BKinzeys 12 years ago

Yes, it's a serious question. There are plenty of Youtube videos of people going nutso in court and/or prison and attacking people.

Even if she didn't use it one of the main ways to control a prisoner is to put them in a headlock. So if she became unruly, would you want to wrap your arm around that in a effort to control her?

[–] beja-4 12 years ago

Yes, it's a serious question. There are plenty of Youtube videos of people going nutso in court and/or prison and attacking people.

It took you awhile to reply. Anyhow, I think you're watching too many movies and Youtube clips, because I hate to break it to you but I don't know of a single case when some has got nutso in a Swedish court room acting the way you're talking about. Maybe Utopia but this is the reality in Sweden. And I know, I live here. I've also googled and found this:

"During 2011 there were 138 disturbances of the order. This number should be read with the background knowledge that there're about 180 000 court proceedings within Sweden's Court rooms, plus there're by estimate about 500 000 visiters annual. Violence is a very unusual factor. http://www.domstol.se/Pages/57215/dv-rapport_2012-2.pdf

So no, there's no reason for the court to ask Lisbeth to take of her necklace or even suspect, which is the most important factor, that she's a violent woman. They've all met her when she's a detainee. She's (still) dressing up to provoke. That's all.

[–] BKinzeys 12 years ago

It's my pleasure to break this to you.

Took awhile for me to reply? That was my first post in this thread. You've confused me with someone else.

It still is a serious question. Obviously the OP was asking for a response from someone from Sweden or at least familiar with Swedish courts. You could have simply stated you are Swedish and your opinion or what you have found. You didn't do that, you attacked the validity of the OP's question.

It's still a valid question because in many, many parts of the world one would not be able to attend court in that attire simply for safety reasons.

If you'd like a first hand account of how those spikes could be used as a weapon you can go down to your local leather & bondage shop, pick out a spiked collar, wrap it around your hand and punch yourself in the face with it.

There is no reason to suspect Lisbeth is a violent woman? She's in court on trial for the murder of 3 people, has a court documented history of violence and was held in a mental aslyum for violent behavior as a child. So there's that.

As for Sweden itself being Utopia.... I hear Sweden is a very nice place to live among first world countries. Yet it does have a higher than average number of suicides. Currently there is rioting going on. So it would seem a lot of people there don't consider it a Utopia.

[–] beja-4 12 years ago

I haven't confused you with someone. Maybe I'm wrong, but the word reply means adressing your message to someone, either the OP or in this case me. With "took awhile to reply" I meant, since you replied to me, one year is quite sometime, that's all.

You could have simply stated you are Swedish and your opinion or what you have found. You didn't do that, you attacked the validity of the OP's question.

As far as I can see I did just that. I don't need to be lectured how to reply to someone and I still think it's an odd question. Lisbeth might be accused for 3 murders and a history at the asylum but this is still Sweden. Which you don't seem to understand and not any leather and bondage shop or her "history of violence" is gonna change that. It's still a valid question what she'd have done with her necklace. She dressed up to provoke and everyone including the prosecutor knew that. Stieg Larsson wrote his books from the Swedish society's view; i.e; what you're talking about happens rarely, if ever in Sweden.

"In 2013, The Economist declared that the Nordic countries "are probably the best-governed in the world," with Sweden in first place. Also in 2013, The Reputation Institute declared Sweden to be the 2nd most reputable country on earth." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sweden

Yeah, Utopia is quite nice to live in.

Yet it does have a higher than average number of suicides. Currently there is rioting going on. So it would seem a lot of people there don't consider it a Utopia.

I haven't dug too deep in the suicide statistics, I figured Wiki is good enough. I'm not so sure about the rioting going on, maybe you'll tell me. Sweden isn't a particular violent country. From the years 2001-2012 there was one (1) incident/year when the police shot a person on the run with a fatal outcome. Until now in 2013, there have been three already. Still a low number.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_suicide_rate

[–] spookyrat1 11 years ago

I don't have any issue with her clothing and accessories in court. The thing I still question is why she is in court in the first place, charged with he attempted murder of her father.

Surely the prosecution had no real case. She's got 3 bullet holes in her, there's the grave and a hell of a lot of presumably forensic evidence to back her story of self-defence. Her brother is wanted for murder and there's the attempted hit on her in the hospital, all of which supports her story.

I know The Section is supposed to have influenced proceedings to a degree, but I would have thought the evidence would have cleared her very early.

Instead she appears to be presumed guilty and has to establish her innocence.

[–] beja-4 11 years ago

I don't have any issue with her clothing and accessories in court. The thing I still question is why she is in court in the first place, charged with he attempted murder of her father.

Hi again, I'm glad you don't have any problem with her clothing, not sure why people make such a big deal.

Anyway, you're somewhat right. But Lisbeth wasn't only accused for what she caused Zala. Even if it was self-defense, she had sought out Zala for a reason. And still a charge to be ruled out. But I couldn't rememeber so I had to read the chapter again and it says following, and I just ran it through google translator;

"Lisbeth Salander was charged with assault and aggravated assault (Lundin), attempted murder and aggravated assault (Zala), two counts of burglary (Bjurman), theft of a motorcycle (Svavelsjö MC), illegal weapons content (tear gas and stun gun), concealment of evidence, and a number of minor offenses. A total of 16 charges against her."

Yes, the Section did have influence of the proceedings and the goal of the trial was to have her locked up in a mental institution again. Ekström, the prosecutor talked with Giannini about that a couple of days prior the court proceedings. That's also why Teleborian played such a big part in the trial.

It's time to watch it again, it sure is. It's been too long time since I saw it.

[–] cooleon 12 years ago

I'm no Swedish, but it's ''trial''.
She's not guilty of anything until proven so.

I am he as you are he as you are me and we are all together.