Did the writers read the book?


If they did, they didn't understand the characters. Sure, they got Smiley's stoicism but they seem to have missed the others. Jim Prideaux is supposed to be a hard man who runs to English public school stereotype. Mark Strong is a very good actor but the character is wrong. Roy Bland is supposed to be a neurotic, left-wing former academic, not the suave, well groomed figure of Ciaran Hinds. Probably the most obvious is Ricki Tarr, a hard man with an ominous warning for the Circus and not a lovesick truant.

This is not to take anything away from the three actors who, I suspect, did their best with what they had. But Strong, Hinds and Tom Hardy are sort of sold short in this one and the film is the worse for it. You get the feeling that none of them understood why Le Carre placed them in the story line in the first place. Even Benedict Cummerbatch as Peter Guillam was a bit off. Again, probably not his fault.

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I'm sure they read it and decided to change it.

I thought Prideaux was a tough nut in this. And Hind's Bland seemed the least suave of the cast to me. He looked like former military or a union shop steward /secretary to me. Likewise Tarr was definitely hard, but clearly also conflicted.

I haven't read the book and I've only seen a couple of episodes of the series. To be honest can't see what the changes you've identified in the characters or which I've observed myself, have done to diminish or distort any other aspect of the story, as its depicted in the film.

Things always get changed. It's the nature of drama.

Le Carre was pleased with the adaptation so I assume he can't have intended anything that was seriously compromised by the changes made.

Glasgow's FOREMOST authority Italics = irony. Infer the opposite please.

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I haven't read the book and I've only seen a couple of episodes of the series.


Both are worth it. You'll probably see what I mean better if you do but that's up to you.

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And then there’s the business of Sam Collins being called Jerry Westerby.

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I am of the opinion that the writers were deliberately doing their own thing. I have no good idea what they were going for, except it seems to involve an evil sadistic Smiley picking on a relatively harmless mole. Whether they understood what they were changing is anyone's guess, but at least some of the changes are deliberate.

I don't like what they did to Control either. And I like John Hurt well enough.

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Nothing harmless about a mole, unless you mean the burrowing kind...😄

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evil sadistic Smiley picking on a relatively harmless mole


What film where you watching?

Glasgow's FOREMOST authority Italics = irony. Infer the opposite please.

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He's just baiting you.

Don't feed the troll.

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I know what he's doing, hence my response. I have no intention of responding to him any further.

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If the film has a consistent theme, it’s that spying is bad, and being a spy makes you a bad person. The most sympathetic people in the film are the ones who want to escape before they become corrupted, like Ricki Tarr (“I want a family. Don’t wanna end up like you lot…”), and the mole who is tragically undone while trying to destroy the evil system. Smiley, on the other hand, is prepared to destroy a colleague, constantly harping on about loyalty while threatening to send him to a country where he will be tortured and killed.

It seems almost as if the film were written this way out of deliberate ignorance. Rather than starting with the book, paring down and economizing the plot and coming up with a screenplay that effectively summarized the story, it feels to me like they began with an objective: a story that shows the Western intelligence world as the hypocritical sham that it is (a very 2011 view). John le Carré has a reputation for that kind of story, and Tinker, Tailor, Soldier, Spy is among his best known novels. Someone read the book or got hold of a summary and made notes of the plot, character names and their place in the story. They passed the notes to someone else who wrote a screenplay that checked all of the ideological boxes but which had very little to do with the source material.

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Bland is military, not academic, in the book and film.

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I thought so.

The people claiming the film is rubbish for not even following the book are full of crap then.

Glasgow's FOREMOST authority Italics = irony. Infer the opposite please.

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"The people claiming the film is rubbish for not even following the book are full of crap then." - Marmadukebagelhole


Even if the film does not follow the book entirely (as it doesn't seem to), they are still full of crap because the film is an adaptation. Things get changed during the rewrite and that in itself is not automatically a bad thing. Just pointing at differences that they don't like doesn't prove their assertion, even though they would like to claim it does.

Haters gonna hate.

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Haters gonna hate.


Ahem.

The purpose of my original post was not to pillory anyone for failing to follow the book. It was to point out that there's little in common between the two and this version is a pretty long way removed from the original. Because of this and because the characters were so extensively altered, the plot was a lot harder to follow. I know the story fairly well and this version of it gets bogged down in things which may have been part of the original story but which are not important enough to be included in a 2 hour film.

To accuse me of "hating" (using a pre-packaged internet polemic description) reveals that the nuances of the story probably escaped you. Le Carre is a writer who trades extensively on subtlety and nuance. Hating - or whatever other polemic you can come up with - is simply not relevant.

When you understand what the character's motives are, the plot points become a lot better connected instead of a random series of events that make little sense when assembled into this film.

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"The purpose of my original post was not to pillory anyone for failing to follow the book" - jd-276


The title of the thread is "Did the writers read the book?", implying that they somehow failed at their job. If that's not a pillory, then I don't know what is.

"It was to point out that there's little in common between the two and this version is a pretty long way removed from the original. Because of this and because the characters were so extensively altered, the plot was a lot harder to follow. - jd-276


For you. I haven't read the book and found no problem following the plot of the film.

One reason you, and others like you, might find the plot harder to follow could be because you are trying to match the plot of the film to that of the book without acknowledging that this is an adaptation, and therefore likely to be different. Is the plot of Blade Runner incomprehensible simply because it differs from Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep? No, the plots are vastly different and yet both make sense when experienced as separate entities. Even though I haven't read Le Carre's book I am more than happy to accept that the plot is more involved and nuanced than that of the film (as is often the case with book to film adaptations), but that doesn't mean that Alfredson's film is automatically shallow.

An article written by Peter Straughan, one of the writers of the film, and published in The Huffington Post is an interesting read and answers your main point more than adequately.
"The process of adapting Tinker Tailor Soldier Spy began in a state of fear, which is perhaps appropriate for entering a world characterised by paranoia and dread.

John le Carré is something of a revered author, a writer who had taken the spy genre - formerly dominated by Ian Fleming’s escapist James Bond books - and elevated it into literature. His fans are fiercely loyal and were understandably skeptical of the news that his most beloved novel was to be turned into a movie. “Tinker Tailor” had been adapted once before, in a 1979 BBC miniseries broadcast in seven hour-long episodes - and been hailed as a masterpiece. How could the same story be told in two hours with any fidelity?

And then there was the book. Le Carré’s characters are unheroic (his most famous character, George Smiley, is described as “small, podgy and at best middle-aged”), and their battles are psychological rather than physical. The world he creates is detailed, realistic (le Carré worked for MI5 and MI6, and knew the arena of Cold War espionage intimately), and is characterised by moral uncertainty rather than Manichaean simplicity. The book’s plot is labyrinthine, layered, shifting; its tone is shot through with melancholy rather than triumphalism. All of this made it a fantastically rich reading experience, and a horrendously difficult prospect for film adaptation.

So when my wife Bridget O’Connor and myself got the call to ask if we’d be interested in trying an adaptation, our reaction was one of extreme nervousness. However, we found out that le Carré was involved in the project himself, and that a director was already attached; the Swede Tomas Alfredson had made the international hit “Let the Right One In,” which we had seen and loved. We decided to go in for a meeting, telling ourselves that if there was any talk of updating the story, or adding guns and car chases, then we wouldn’t do it. We needn’t have worried. Tomas turned out to be as different from the cliché of the “movie director” as it is possible to imagine. He coupled the impenetrable calm of Smiley himself with flashes of wicked humour. We liked him immediately. The producers Tim Bevan, Eric Fellner, and Robyn Slovo were also clearly excited at the idea of making a grown-up movie, and throughout the whole process were keen that we remained true to the spirit and complexity of the book. There would be no car chases.

Working with Tomas was a little like working on a project with a mad professor. Instead of the usual studio notes on “characters arcs,” “three-act structure,” and “dramatic stakes,” Tomas would begin a script meeting by wondering what kind of fairy story “Tinker Tailor” would be; the good Prince who is thrown out of the castle and must defeat the usurper King, we decided. Another meeting began with Tomas arriving with a chess set he had just bought. Which character was which piece, he wondered? We spent the afternoon playing with that idea - and the chess pieces made it into the script. Other notes included his telling the cinematographer Hoyte van Hoytema that the film should look like the smell of wet tweed. (He told me that world should have the color of an old man’s foreskin. I haven’t actually seen an old man’s foreskin, but I took the point.)

We met with David Cornwell, a.k.a. John le Carré himself, who turned out to be everything an adaptor could hope for from an author - generous, supportive and brilliantly inventive. He had been through the process of having his books adapted many times, and knew very well that fidelity to the source material alone was no guarantee of a successful movie. Far less precious about the novel than Bridget and myself, he encouraged us to move away from the text - and to play with new ideas and structures.

The initial drafts came fairly quickly and within something like six months we were green-lit. The process of refining, restructuring and polishing continued up to the beginning of the shoot - around about a year’s writing in all.

The adaptation process differs from book to book, but in the case of “Tinker Tailor,” it involved a kind of mosaic work. The structure of the novel was broken into pieces. Some long sequences would remain intact - Peter Guillam stealing the files from the Circus, for example - but in other cases we would take a line or event from one place in the narrative and move it elsewhere, shifting the fragments around endlessly until it felt right. The goal was to create a new version of the narrative which would bear a close family resemblance to the source material, but have its own cinematic personality. The really difficult part was not fitting the plot into two hours but doing it without losing the tone; to give the film the same autumnal, melancholy pace, and to give the script air and silence.

As the drafts progressed it became evident where new sequences, scenes and images would have to be injected. Bridget, who was endlessly inventive, came up with many of these ideas - from Guillam’s homosexuality to the new café scene at the opening to the simple but eloquent image of Smiley swimming in the ponds at Hampstead Heath, looking at the trembling elderly bodies around him and wondering if this was his world now.

Adaptation is a kind of foster parenting, and as the filmmaking process continues you find yourself handing over the baby and watching it being taken away by new parents.

Throughout the shoot, the edit, and the early screenings - and up to the final release - a vague sense of nervousness continued. Unusually for me (because the job is not, in the end, to please the author), I found myself worrying about le Carré and whether or not he would approve of the film. At the U.K. premiere, Gary Oldman (who portrays Smiley) asked him if he liked what he’d seen. “I’m chuffed to *beep* came the reply. I finally stopped worrying."

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/peter-straughan/tinker-tailor-solider-spy-adaptation_b_1149007.html


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One reason you, and others like you, might find the plot harder to follow could be because you are trying to match the plot of the film to that of the book without acknowledging that this is an adaptation, and therefore likely to be different. Is the plot of Blade Runner incomprehensible simply because it differs from Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep?


FYI: I read the book after I saw the film. I had not see the miniseries either when I saw the film. In fact, the film was less of a mystery when I saw it because I hadn't had any other interpretation of the story.

It's pretty pointless you lecturing people like this when you haven't read it.

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I'm not lecturing people, this is a discussion board, I'm discussing.

My position remains the same whether or not I, or anyone else, have read the book. Not understanding the plot of the film is one thing, but needlessly comparing the book and the film is the pointless task. Everything you need to know about the film is contained within the film. Details and plot points from outside sources (including the book) will only confuse, as attested to by your own post.

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You and the other poster have a history of antagonising people on this page.

Blocked without regret.

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"You and the other poster have a history of antagonising people on this page.

Blocked without regret." - jd-276


Lol wut? U mad bro?

How's that for internet polemic?

I must say, this is the first time I've been blocked for unintentionally antagonising someone other than the one who blocked me. Heh.

Also, I'm curious about the claim that myself and another, unnamed, poster have been antagonising people on this page. I have only replied to jd-276 and Marmadukebagelhole, presumably the other who is antagonising people as he is the only other who has made posts that disagree with jd-276's claims.

Haha. Whatever, kid.

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Bland is military, not academic, in the book and film.
Plainly not the case:
Like Smiley, Bland had had no real childhood. His father was a docker, a passionate trade unionist, and a Party member. His mother died when Bland was a boy. His father hated education as he hated authority and when Bland grew clever the father took it into his head that he had lost his son to the ruling class and beat the life out of him. Bland fought his way to grammar school and in the holidays worked his fingers, as Toby would say, to the bones, in order to raise the extra fee. When Smiley met him in his tutor’s rooms at Oxford, he had the battered look of someone just arrived from a bad journey.

Smiley took him up, and over several months edged closer to a proposition, which Bland accepted largely, Smiley assumed, out of animosity towards his father. After that he passed out of Smiley’s care. Subsisting on odd grants undescribed, Bland toiled in the Marx Memorial Library and wrote leftish papers for tiny magazines that would have died long ago had the Circus not subsidised them. In the evenings he argued the toss at smoky meetings in pubs and school halls. In the vacations he went to the Nursery, where a fanatic called Thatch ran a charm-school for outward-bound penetration agents, one pupil at a time. Thatch trained Bland in tradecraft and carefully nudged his progressive opinions nearer to his father’s Marxist camp. Three years to the day after his recruitment, partly thanks to his proletarian pedigree, and his father’s influence at King Street, Bland won a year’s appointment as assistant lector in economics at the University of Poznan. He was launched.

From Poland he applied successfully for a post at the Budapest Academy of Sciences and for the next eight years he lived the nomadic life of a minor left-wing intellectual in search of light, often liked but never trusted. He stayed in Prague, returned to Poland, did a hellish two semesters in Sofia and six in Kiev where he had a nervous breakdown, his second in as many months. Once more the Nursery took charge of him, this time to dry him out. He was passed as clean, his networks were given to other fieldmen and Roy himself was brought into the Circus to manage, mainly from a desk, the networks he had recruited in the field. Recently, it had seemed to Smiley, Bland had become very much Haydon’s colleague. If Smiley chanced to call on Roy for a chat, like as not Bill was lounging in his armchair surrounded by papers, charts and cigarette smoke; if he dropped in on Bill it was no surprise to find Bland, in a sweat-soaked shirt, padding heavily back and forth across the carpet. Bill had Russia, Bland the satellites; but already in those early days of Witchcraft, the distinction had all but vanished.

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Thank you for taking the time to clear that up.

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I assume they read either the book or a summary of it. As Le Carre was involved the differences from the book do not surprise me. Le Carre, judging by his recent work, has changed direction significantly since 1974 and may well have re-imagined the story accordingly.
The problem facing the writers would have been that there is far too much book for an eighty-seven minute film. As a result characters become paper thin or absent, and the plot, far from thickening, congeals.
Someone, possibly Le Carre, has taken the opportunity to saddle some characters with "issues" that have no dramatic value and only add to the sticky mess. Perhaps it is meant to be a sticky mess, a parable of our, or somebody's, times.
The actors did their best, the cinematography is excellent, the direction seems fine to me, but the tale is a dud, and that dooms the film.

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