Huge Contradiction

I analyzed Miss Lucy and realized that I think she believed they did not have souls.

Yes, this is also how I see it.


In the beginning of the story it is said: "The breakthrough in medical science came in 1952. Doctors could now cure the previously incurable. By 1967, life expectancy passed 100 years." This is science - a fact; something that is and can be proved.
And then there is the episode with the ball that landed just outside the school ground, Miss Lucy ask the children why didn't they get the ball, and we get the story about the boy that went and died. This is just a story - superstition; something that never have happened, but they still believe it is true.

And this is what this movie is about: Facts contra Superstition - how do you want to live your life, with your eyes wide open (facts) or your eyes wide closed (superstition).

The scene in the class room where Miss Lucy tells the children that "they have been told and not told" is where they now have a choice: Fact or Superstition. Up to now they only knew about Superstition. And even that they now know better they still choose Superstition (hens Miss Lucy is fired).
But Tommy do later regret this choice; the scene on the road where he gets out of the car and screams. He and Kathy were on the way home from the visit to Miss Emily where they asked for an extension of their lifes and Miss Emily answers that, that was not even an option - there had never been anything like that. It also become clear that they don't have any souls.
He screams because he realize, he had been living his life on a lie (the superstition about a soul and it's promise of an extension of life) and now had wasted his life because of it.

Have you fired Miss Lucy?

Never let me go - for this is all you get, there is nothing after it!
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Say no to Stupidity

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"Miss Lucy tells Tommy that creativity and the art gallery was not important, how can this be when according to the Headmistress, this was the MOST important thing throughout the movie (to prove they had souls)."

I thought Miss Lucy was simply trying to calm Tommy down, the way teachers do in real life when a child is upset. She also said being good at games and sport was not important. Which is true. As they say in the real world, "Winning doesn't matter." Though this sounds a bit idealistic as well, in a society that loves its sport and puts well-paid athletes on a pedestal.

Ultimately, the art WAS unimportant, because it didn't get the authorities to change their mind and rethink the morality of harvesting clones for organs. Bit by bit, Hailsham lost its funding, and the clones were reared in institutions, just as they were before Hailsham got started. As Miss Emily said to Kathy and Tommy (in the novel) "If you saw what happened in those places you wouldn't sleep for days."

"Then, I noticed that the scene in Madame's house made it seem as if they too have given up on the idea that they had souls. She never once said anything good about the drawings, and even Tommy did not draw during his "bad time" which would be when his soul should show the most."

Madame did say the drawings were good and offered to keep them. But the novel goes into much more detail about Miss Emily's intentions with Hailsham, the donation scheme and the outside world's attitude towards clones.

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Here's what I thought. I thought that Hailsham was first and foremost a home and school for the kids, the home being the most important part. The act of them trying to determine if he kids had souls was just a part of the research of the people behind the whole thing, but it wasn't the purpose of the boarding school. I figured Hailsham was one of many boarding schools, where all cloned children spend their childhood.

I think the reason Miss Lucy was fired was because she gave them info that she wasn't supposed to, and much earlier than they would have been told otherwise. Don't tell them their purpose at such a young age or it could result in all of the kids freaking out and could adversely affect the atmosphere at the school (Think of what the scumbag Nazis did to the victims at the death camps. Until they actually got there or in most cases were right at the death house door, they wouldn't even hint at what was going to actually happen as it would have created havoc. Their ultimate fate was kept from them until the end). I believe they would normally be told this at a much older age, when they could more readily accept it. I think she told them because she felt bad for them. I also think that she did believe they had a soul, which is why she told them what she did.

When she told Tommy about the art not mattering, I think it was just her trying to calm him down, and also telling him that because it would be like your parents telling you that if you aren't particularly good at something, in the end, it doesn't really matter.

I also think that she told them to live good lives, or whatever it was she said, as she wanted them to value the short lives that they had, and not waste it. Even though a person's life may be short, it doesn't mean that they can't have regret at the end of it.

As for the Headmistress, I don't think that she believed that they did have souls. When she called them "poor creatures", I think this shows it. And as I stated earlier, I think that Miss Lucy definitely DID believe they had souls. I think she wanted to be a protector to them, but knew that she couldn't. And she told them what she did because of the guilt she felt about what was happening to them.

Lastly, it's been a while since I've seen this film, and my memory on it is a little hazy, so if I'm incorrect on some of the things said, I apologize.


The plural of mouse is mice. The plural of goose is geese. Why is the plural of moose not meese?

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I think Miss Lucy, as well as Miss Emily and Madame, do believe that the student have souls.

I think Miss Lucy told Tommy the art wasn't important precisely because she does believe he in ensouled -- and he shouldn't have to "play the game," so to speak, and prove to anyone that he does have a soul. No one should have to prove their humanity to anyone else, and I think that's why Miss Lucy tells Tommy what she does. She's acting out of idealism and her tendency toward the theoretical, which Miss Emily says she has (at least in the book; not sure if she says that in the movie).

Then her turnaround, telling Tommy that the art is important, comes when she realizes that even though she believes in the essential humanity of the students and abhors the thought of their having to prove it, there are others in government and society who do not accept that so readily. So even though Tommy shouldn't have to prove that he is ensouled, the reality of the world demands that he does, so Miss Lucy tells him he has to get on with his art, even though it goes against her ideals.

That's what I think one of the central ethical quandaries of the story is -- the clash of what should be versus what is. We shouldn't have disease but we do; we shouldn't make clones to sacrifice but we do; we should believe in their humanity but we don't.

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Oh, she just told him that creativity didn't matter because they were all going to donate and die eventually, regardless of their creativity or lack thereof. And the Headmistress was just continuing her experiment, besides I don;t think she ever said that art is more important than keeping healthy. They were always going to get harvested, which was why Miss Lucy broke down and told them the truth.

And, like someone else says higher up this thread, she also knew that being creative is not essential for having a soul and being human, as it is seen in professions she listed before telling them the truth about their lives.

She most definitely believed they had a soul.

As to the final dialogue between them, it truly looked like two groups of creatures fighting for survival, which could only have happened at the expense of the other group. And Miss Emily + Madame were, unfortunately, from the dominant group. Sure they pitied the young clones, but don't most of us pity the cattle and chicks and rabbits we eat? It's not even hypocritical, just survival combined with the knowledge that none of it is personal.

there's a highway that is curling up like smoke above her shoulder

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My view was that Miss Lucy represented the turmoil that occurs precisely when someone on the outside was forced to acknowledge the children's value as people.

From the outside, the secluded children of the school, their upbringing, their fate as adults, could all be ignored. And so it was ignored. The gallery, equally, could be ignored.

Miss Lucy must have known from the beginning what she was volunteering to do in working at Hailsham. When the children tell her the stories of how dangerous it is to cross the boundaries and leave the school, we see her first confronted with the lies required to maintain order. As she learns that the children have depth, that they're more than lambs for the slaughter, she becomes unable to play a part in that.

At the end, when the gallery is explained, it's said that they were attempting to "answer a question no one was asking". That is, nobody wanted to know where the organs came from, they just wanted them to keep coming.

There is no contradiction because the outside world denies what Miss Lucy is forced to see.

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