MovieChat Forums > Hulk Vs. (2009) Discussion > Stupid, as Hulk would DESTROY Wolverine....

Stupid, as Hulk would DESTROY Wolverine... (spoilers)


(spoilers)

It pisses me off when they pit mortals against the Hulk. In the comics, Hulk's skin cannot be penetrated by any weapons, I don't care if it's Adamantium or not. The Hulk can throw tanks and buildings like empty aluminum cans. Wolverine would last about 12 seconds against the Hulk, the amount of time it would take for the Hulk to reach Wolverine.

Wolverine doesn't have NEAR the strength that the Hulk does, his skin is penetrable by normal weapons and he weighs about 1/20th what the Hulk does. The Hulk could *sit* on Wolverine and he would die.

Stupid.


"...nothing is left of me, each time I see her..." - Catullus

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[deleted]

Oh, I didn't consult the canon, excuse me.

Point being, one hit from the Hulk and Wolverine is paste. Hulk is exponentially stronger than Wolverine and all it would take is one hit from the Hulk and Wolverine would be scattered molecules.


"...nothing is left of me, each time I see her..." - Catullus

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[deleted]

And the Hulk is the only character that has ever dented adamantium, except for Thor (but he did it with a spell).

Anyway, if you look at my OP you'll see that what I was talking about was that the Hulk would DESTROY Wolverine. Okay, great, adamantium can pierce his skin, but that still doesn't matter concerning what I said... which is... the Hulk would destroy Wolverine in about 12 seconds. A fight between them is just plain stupid. Why do they pit Hulk against Wolverine (of all characters)? Why they don't stack him up against some villain that can actually fight against him is beyond me. All characters like Wolverine are doing, when they "fight" the Hulk, is running away, staying alive and irritating the Hulk, but they aren't fighting him. It would be nice to see a Hulk Vs. segment/film where the Hulk is actually challenged by a similarly powered character. Fights with Thor and Wolverine though are absurd. It's like pitting Superman vs. Wolverine (if a cross-company DC/Marvel fight could ever happen), it's stupid. The only question would be, how long would it take for Superman to tear Wolverine apart enough so that he couldn't regenerate? One minute? A half?

Next time why don't they pit Hulk versus Elektra? How about Hulk versus the Wasp? Ugh.


"...nothing is left of me, each time I see her..." - Catullus

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Wolverine's power seems to differ vastly depending on who is writing the story. The more popular Logan got the more invulnerable he became. He has survived being incinerated by a nuclear blast. It's part of the reason I became a little bored of him.

While I wasn't quite as furious as you Bladerunner I was a bit disappointed at how easily Logan took those blows. When Hulk pummelled him into the ground I thought that he was out for the count but he got straight back up, all tension then just evaporated.

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Precisely! Good comments, mikeonbass2.

When you make him so invulnerable to the Hulk's rage, then you diminish the Hulk's power and in doing so you completely remove any drama from the scene. If you know that Wolverine is incapable of being hurt by the Hulk, you completely drain any pathos from the piece.

This is what happens when they try to "equalize" the powers of all superheroes. When all superheroes are on an equal plane — where their power is almost absolute — then we begin to lose interest and cannot relate to the characters any more.

Part of what makes the Hulk so fun is, he is of almost limitless power, but he has no control over it. This theme is exercised very well in several Avengers story lines, where the Hulk is key to a victory, but then turns on the other members and they have to battle him to keep him from destroying them and the planet.

The character of Supreme (published by Image Comics) is a good example of a character that has too much power and too much control, which basically makes for a very boring scenario. Image has to make up super villains to challenge him, but they are so powerful we, as humans, just can't relate - there is no connection to be made between us and Supreme. The only thing we can rely on is his tortured psyche, which makes for a weak connection at best.

A good analogy of all of this is the last Indiana Jones movie and the whole "Nuke the Fridge" controversy that still rages on. No matter what side of the debate you come out on, it's hard to deny that Indiana's survival of a nuclear blast in a refrigerator — with nary a scratch on him — does make it pretty difficult to fear for his safety later in the movie. As you so deftly pointed out, mikeonbass2, it completely drains all tension from the drama.

Part of Wolverine's character is his cunning, his survival skills, his superb hand-to-hand fighting skills that are often very innovative when he is out-matched. Here, in Hulk Vs. we see none of that, instead the Wolverine is reduced to a miniature version of the Hulk, standing toe-to-toe and trading blows... boring and stupid.

Not only does all of this pathetically reduce the power of the Hulk, but it also sadly transforms and/or removes all the wonderful qualities of Wolverine, turning him into a mindless brawler.

Another thing that is irritating is the argument I got into with the other poster concerning whether adamantium could penetrate Hulk's skin. The canon contradicts itself on this point. Back in The Incredible Hulk #181 "...and now the Wolverine", we find Wolverine sent by the government to break up a battle between the Hulk and the Wendigo. In this fight, Wolverine announces to the two of them that he has "diamond-hard adamatium claws - and the power to back them up". After battling the Hulk for a minute he says, "...and since those claws can't seem to pierce that incredible emerald hide of yours -- why don't I see how they fare against your shaggy friend!" Wolverine then discovers that the Wendigo can be cut by his claws and goes to town on the Wendigo.

In this fight, it is Wolverine's superior speed and fighting skills that keeps him alive. In one moment, however, something distracts both of them, but the Hulk remains single-minded and punches Wolverine. Because Wolverine's reflexes are so fast, he has time to move just enough from the punch to deflect its full force, and the narrative states: "The blow is only a glancing one! And it's probably that plus his astonishing stamina that saves his life-- For, by all rights, even a glancing blow from fists that can shatter mountains should be fatal!" With that, Wolverine goes down and stays down. Here, however, in this entry (as you noted mikeonbass2) the Hulk has Wolverine down and is *smashing*, repeatedly, his face into the rock, to whit the Wolverine pops up a second later ready to fight again. Riiiiight. Before, a glancing blow was enough to almost kill the Wolverine, but here he can take multiple, full-force punches to the face and head and jumps up just fine. As I said, stupid.


"...nothing is left of me, each time I see her..." - Catullus

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Thor can beat Hulk. He put up a fight against Red Hulk when Hulk was unable to, killed Sentry, and Fear Itself just happened. Galactus has also stated that Thor was the only one who could make him feel pain, like when he recently flew through his head. Don't compare Thor to someone who can't do a thing to Hulk.

When bringing up the canon, it's important to understand how non-canonical the canon actually is. Spiderman shoots web fluid, then webs, then web fluids again, Thor fought to a stalemate for nine months against Hercules' superior, Zeuss, yet has trouble with Hercules, Hulk is a rage monster, unable to hold back, with comparable strength to Thor, yet doesn't blow up planets anytime he punches something...

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The Hulk, ultimately, is stronger than any character if he gets mad enough. His strength, in essence, knows no bounds. Jessie Blaze Snider, the author of a Hulk/Thor slugfest is commented as saying:

Question #1: Who is stronger?

Normally, I would say that the two are fairly evenly matched. BUT as EVERYONE know, the ANGRIER Hulk gets, the STRONGER Hulk gets, which is why Hulk can ultimately beat anyone, because unless you prevent him from getting upset or frustrated, he's just gonna keep getting angry until he over powers you. AND in this instance the Hulk has just finished fighting the Wrecking Crew, so he's already pretty revved up and tired of being hit by magic sticks! (He got hit by the Wreckers' Crowbar a whole bunch and THOR gives him a VERY REASONABLE beat down before this moment.)

So, who is stronger? Hulk! He is mad as Hell and not going to take being hit by magic sticks anymore!





"...nothing is left of me, each time I see her..." - Catullus

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In the comics Hulk and Wolverine have fought several times and he wasn't turned to paste. Obviously Hulk would win, but you act the movie doesn't acknowledge that Hulk wipes the floor with everyone in the movie and the only reason that he never officially beats Wolverine is because he doesn't actually fight Wolverine that long. The movie clearly depicts Hulk as the strongest it just focuses the story more on Wolverine.

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By the way, the canon on this point is contradictory. As I pointed out elsewhere in this forum:

"The canon contradicts itself on this point. Back in The Incredible Hulk #181 "...and now the Wolverine", we find Wolverine sent by the government to break up a battle between the Hulk and the Wendigo. In this fight, Wolverine announces to the two of them that he has "diamond-hard adamatium claws - and the power to back them up". After battling the Hulk for a minute he says, "...and since those claws can't seem to pierce that incredible emerald hide of yours -- why don't I see how they fare against your shaggy friend!" Wolverine then discovers that the Wendigo can be cut by his claws and goes to town on the Wendigo."


So, whether or not the Wolverine's claws can penetrate the Hulk's skin is a matter of dispute. More accurately, it is the canon contradicting itself... repeatedly. However, no matter what was stated later in the canon, in the beginning it was established that Wolverine's claws could not penetrate the Hulk's skin.


"...nothing is left of me, each time I see her..." - Catullus

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[deleted]

I have the issue, and I just looked at it, so I know what I'm talking about. He did, most definitely, use his claws and they were ineffective. Read the comic, you'll see.


"...nothing is left of me, each time I see her..." - Catullus

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Hulk #181 - page 2:

Panel 4: Wolverine: "And like a wolverine, I've got claws-- forged of diamond-hard Adamantium--and the power to back them up!"

Panel 5: Wolverine: "And since those claws can't seem to pierce that incredible emerald hide of yours-- --why don't I see how they fare against your shaggy friend! Ahhhh--That's much better!"

In Hulk 181 Wolverine himself admits that his claws cannot pierce Hulk's skin.

I think that "supports [my] claim".


"...nothing is left of me, each time I see her..." - Catullus

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[deleted]

As I stated before:

So, whether or not the Wolverine's claws can penetrate the Hulk's skin is a matter of dispute. More accurately, it is the canon contradicting itself... repeatedly. However, no matter what was stated later in the canon, in the beginning it was established that Wolverine's claws could not penetrate the Hulk's skin.


I'm not a fan (few are) of retconning, to me it is weak, bogus and confusing (to say the least). The first meeting establishes, Wolverine cannot penetrate Hulk's skin with his claws. End of story. If they later want to retcon that, fine, but the fact remains, it is just as accurate - per the canon - for one to say that Wolverine's claws cannot penetrate the Hulk's skin, as it is to say they can. According to the canon, both are accurate. For example, Superman once could travel through space for unlimited periods of time, later he could only travel in space as long as he could hold his breath, so which is correct? Both are true, depending on which part of the canon one wishes to site.

Even if he can penetrate Hulk's skin, he can't penetrate it much, and the Hulk's regeneration (healing) abilities far surpass Wolverine's. He basically heals the moment after the claws leave his skin. So all the debate about whether Wolverine's claws can penetrate the Hulk's skin his is moot, the important point is this, Wolverine has no chance against the Hulk. That fact is incontrovertible. So, THAT "outweighs" any "lines".


"...nothing is left of me, each time I see her..." - Catullus

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[deleted]

okay Scifi you win. wolverine CAN cut the hulk for the last time. but guess what? Who cares? Like Bladerunner is saying it doesn't matter. It would be like paper cut to the hulk when hulk has his instant healing, etc. Wolverine can penetrate his skin whoopdeedoo. but it still doesn't stop the hulk from pounding wolverine into a pulp.

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I too felt the same way about the movie. The fighting between Wolverine and the Hulk should portray the clashing of brain versus brawn, or superior fighting skills versus brute strength.

Instead we got the writers increasing Wolverine's invulnerability to a point where he fought the hulk toe to toe.

Then again, I have not read comics in a while, perhaps Marvel canon has since brought Wolverine's power level to that of Superman.

"RESPECTING ONE'S OPINION IS THE PINNACLE OF MATURITY"

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The same could be said of the fight between Hulk & Thor in the Hulk Vs. Thor segment. Thor is an immortal or semi-immortal warrior god who's been kicking ass and taking names since long before either Wolverine or Bruce Banner/the Hulk was born, so he has centuries of combat experience that should allow him to outwit & out-think the Hulk where even the mighty thunder god's strength may not be enough. Instead, Thor got in 5 or 6 hits against the Hulk before being completely bludgeoned to death or near death in the first fight, which is sad since the story establishes this is not the first time Thor has faced off with the Hulk, and then got in another 5 in the 2nd fight (where he at least got to take the initiative). Even sadder is that Wolverine put up a better fight before being downed by tranquilizer darts than Thor did.

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Very true Darthbill.

"RESPECTING ONE'S OPINION IS THE PINNACLE OF MATURITY"

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The Hulk could *sit* on Wolverine and he would die.
___________________________________________________


So true

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Adamantium can cut the Hulk maybe not that deep, but it would at least hurt him a little. Have you read the comics? they fight all the time and Wolverine has at least cut the Hulk, I don't remember if the cuts were that deep though.


Cult Leader my mind's frightening, I drink blood from a human skull like a Viking

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Let's be clear about the contradictory history of Hulk's skin getting cut, by Wolverine or otherwise.

There were comics code issues that prevented certain depictions of violence for decades. Up into the mid 90's, you couldn't even show red blood seeping from a wound because of the code - it was coloured black instead. Marvel was only free of these restrictions in their B&W magazine line; Conan, Rampaging Hulk were full of graphic adult situations & violence. Plus their fantasy magazine Epic Illustrated.

So Hulk's skin was depicted as impenetrable until a meeting with Wolverine in late 1987 (this was the grey skinned, intelligent version in the early years of Peter David's run.) He was cut open, and his blood was green. So it was retconned on from that point that the Hulk's skin wasn't really impenetrable, but that he had a rapid healing factor even faster than Wolverine's, that worked faster the angrier he got & the longer the fight went on, that it seemed almost instantaneous.

Hulk's skin is not easily penetrated, but when it is he can heal from most anything quick.

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Yea I thought it was ridiculous how powerful they made Wolverine look in this movie, and they made Thor, a god no less, look like a weakling in comparison.

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